With No Expectations

El Hombre viejo · Jan 8, 2012

After a long and drawn out discussion with family, I pass on this challenge.

Please show me in the Word where we are to give with no expectation of return.

Kit Carson · Jan 8, 2012

Acts 20:35
Matthew 6: verses one and two.

We are not to expect rewards from other men. When we give or share for the right reason God does acknowledge this and gives his rewards. In fact the Bible says he will reward those who give in the right spirit.

So should we expect this. No and if we give to someone and they throw it into your face, just try again in another situation. It is not what men say or do or want or react to, it is what God sees in ones heart.

Kit

El Hombre viejo · Jan 8, 2012

Kit Carson said:
Acts 20:35
Matthew 6: verses one and two.

We are not to expect rewards from other men. When we give or share for the right reason God does acknowledge this and gives his rewards. In fact the Bible says he will reward those who give in the right spirit.

So should we expect this. No and if we give to someone and they throw it into your face, just try again in another situation. It is not what men say or do or want or react to, it is what God sees in ones heart.

Kit

Oh!! I love that answer Kit. Its dead on, to my understanding.

jiggyfly · Jan 8, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
After a long and drawn out discussion with family, I pass on this challenge.

Please show me in the Word where we are to give with no expectation of return.

I think it is important to mention that what is expected is significant in whether or not it will be received. If we are giving so that we will be increased ourselves, then we are being selfish.

El Hombre viejo · Jan 8, 2012

jiggyfly said:
I think it is important to mention that what is expected is significant in whether or not it will be received. If we are giving so that we will be increased ourselves, then we are being selfish.

Remember the rules? Scripture to back up?

jiggyfly · Jan 9, 2012

1 What is causing the quarrels and fights among you? Don’t they come from the evil desires at war within you?2 You want what you don’t have, so you scheme and kill to get it. You are jealous of what others have, but you can’t get it, so you fight and wage war to take it away from them. Yet you don’t have what you want because you don’t ask God for it.3 And even when you ask, you don’t get it because your motives are all wrong—you want only what will give you pleasure.
James 4:1-3 (NLT)

May I ask what scriptures you base your premise of "giving with expectation" on?

El Hombre viejo · Jan 9, 2012

jiggyfly; May I ask what scriptures you base your premise of "giving with expectation" on?[/QUOTE said:
Well...We know that Christian are a sowing and reaping people. Even from Genesis where God told us to replenish the Earth. Being blessed so we can be a blessing, whatsoever you sow..., Jesus is the minister of our seed etc. IF you sow you get a harvest and all
Yet most churches I've ever attended teach that to give with an expectation of a return is wrong. "You don't give with an expectation of getting back" Bad bad bad! Yet if we are sowing, say a tithe, its only logical to expect a harvest. We did plant seed.
A farmer who plants a field of wheat would be insane to say "Well I planted five thousand acres of wheat but I don't expect anything to come up. That would not be right?

See what I mean? Where to teachings like that come from in the churches? :shock:

jiggyfly · Jan 9, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
Well...We know that Christian are a sowing and reaping people. Even from Genesis where God told us to replenish the Earth. Being blessed so we can be a blessing, whatsoever you sow..., Jesus is the minister of our seed etc. IF you sow you get a harvest and all
Yet most churches I've ever attended teach that to give with an expectation of a return is wrong. "You don't give with an expectation of getting back" Bad bad bad! Yet if we are sowing, say a tithe, its only logical to expect a harvest. We did plant seed.
A farmer who plants a field of wheat would be insane to say "Well I planted five thousand acres of wheat but I don't expect anything to come up. That would not be right?

See what I mean? Where to teachings like that come from in the churches? :shock:

No scriptures?

El Hombre viejo · Jan 9, 2012

jiggyfly said:
No scriptures?

LOL OK

Well...We know that Christian are a sowing and reaping people. Even from Genesis where God told us to replenish the Earth. Being blessed so we can be a blessing, whatsoever you sow..., Jesus is the minister of our seed etc. IF you sow you get a harvest and all
Yet most churches I've ever attended teach that to give with an expectation of a return is wrong. "You don't give with an expectation of getting back" Bad bad bad! Yet if we are sowing, say a tithe, its only logical to expect a harvest. We did plant seed.
A farmer who plants a field of wheat would be insane to say "Well I planted five thousand acres of wheat but I don't expect anything to come up. That would not be right?

See what I mean? Where to teachings like that come from in the churches? :shock:

Huh? You want scripture? LOL
Ok Here....

Genesis 1:27-29 (King James Version)

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

You Know that 'replenish' means to refill, stock up. replace etc

re·plen·ish

[ri-plen-ish]

Show IPA
verb (used with object) 1. to make full or complete again, as by supplying what is lacking, used up, etc.: to replenish one's stock of food.

2. to supply (a fire, stove, etc.) with fresh fuel.

3. to fill again or anew.

Jesus is the minister of our seed. He gives us seed to sow...

2 Corinthians 9:9-11 (King James Version)

9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness

11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

Being Blessed to be a blessing....

Bountifulness means

1) singleness, simplicity, sincerity, mental honesty
a) the virtue of one who is free from pretense and hypocrisy
2) not self seeking, openness of heart manifesting itself by generosity

jiggyfly · Jan 10, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
LOL OK

Well...We know that Christian are a sowing and reaping people. Even from Genesis where God told us to replenish the Earth. Being blessed so we can be a blessing, whatsoever you sow..., Jesus is the minister of our seed etc. IF you sow you get a harvest and all
Yet most churches I've ever attended teach that to give with an expectation of a return is wrong. "You don't give with an expectation of getting back" Bad bad bad! Yet if we are sowing, say a tithe, its only logical to expect a harvest. We did plant seed.
A farmer who plants a field of wheat would be insane to say "Well I planted five thousand acres of wheat but I don't expect anything to come up. That would not be right?

See what I mean? Where to teachings like that come from in the churches? :shock:

Huh? You want scripture? LOL
Ok Here....

Genesis 1:27-29 (King James Version)

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

You Know that 'replenish' means to refill, stock up. replace etc

re·plen·ish

[ri-plen-ish] Show IPA
verb (used with object) 1. to make full or complete again, as by supplying what is lacking, used up, etc.: to replenish one's stock of food.

2. to supply (a fire, stove, etc.) with fresh fuel.

3. to fill again or anew.

Jesus is the minister of our seed. He gives us seed to sow...

2 Corinthians 9:9-11 (King James Version)

9(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

Being Blessed to be a blessing....

Bountifulness means

1) singleness, simplicity, sincerity, mental honesty
a) the virtue of one who is free from pretense and hypocrisy
2) not self seeking, openness of heart manifesting itself by generosity

Can you please post scriptures that indicate we need to give with expectations of receiving a return?

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

jiggyfly said:
Can you please post scriptures that indicate we need to give with expectations of receiving a return?

Ahhh Ok Just give me a couple hours. I have a few chores to do first. I vaccuum the house Tuesdays etc. LOL The joys of retirement.

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

Expectation

Ok You can start chewing on these. I can get you more but you really should do your own studying.

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2 Corinthians 9:6-11 (New International Version)
Generosity Encouraged
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:
“They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor;
their righteousness endures forever.”[a]
10 Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

Look at it in the Amplified too
2 Corinthians 9:6-11 (Amplified Bible)
6[Remember] this: he who sows sparingly and grudgingly will also reap sparingly and grudgingly, and he who sows generously [[a]that blessings may come to someone] will also reap generously and with blessings.
7Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He [b]takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, "prompt to do it") giver [whose heart is in his giving].(A)
8And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [c]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [d]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].
9As it is written, He [the benevolent person] scatters abroad; He gives to the poor; His deeds of justice and goodness and kindness and benevolence will go on and endure forever!(B)
10And [God] Who provides seed for the sower and bread for eating will also provide and multiply your [resources for] sowing and increase the fruits of your righteousness [[e]which manifests itself in active goodness, kindness, and charity].(C)
11Thus you will be enriched in all things and in every way, so that you can be generous, and [your generosity as it is] administered by us will bring forth thanksgiving to God.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:38 (Amplified Bible)
38Give, and [gifts] will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will they pour [a]into [the pouch formed by] the bosom [of your robe and used as a bag]. For with the measure you deal out [with the measure you use when you confer benefits on others], it will be measured back to you.

Malachi 3:10-11 (New International Version)
10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the LORD Almighty.
Malachi 3:10-11 (Amplified Bible)
10Bring all the tithes (the whole tenth of your income) into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and prove Me now by it, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.(A)
11And I will rebuke the devourer [insects and plagues] for your sakes and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground, neither shall your vine drop its fruit before the time in the field, says the Lord of hosts.
Proverbs 3:9-10 (Amplified Bible)
9Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income; 10So shall your storage places be filled with plenty, and your vats shall be overflowing with new wine.

If GOD says that when we give gladly we WILL be blessed in kind, it would really be stupid NOT to expect GOD to keep HIS WORD. Wouldn't it?

jiggyfly · Jan 10, 2012

I still don't see anything of giving with expectation in the scriptures you posted. But maybe I missed it. Care to point it out?:wink:

Understand that I am not arguing against expecting a return on giving, not at all, the scriptures are filled with the concept of "give and it shall be given". But this leads right back to my first post in the thread, giving with selfish motivation. Giving with the motivation of self increase is really not giving it's investing or making a loan. We are to share what we have with one another. The rich are warned by the scriptures in several places to not be stingy and everyone is warned not to be greedy.

You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
Eph 5:5 (NLT)

So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.
Col 3:5 (NLT)

Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal.20 Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal.21 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.
Matt 6:19-21 (NLT)

24 “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
25 “That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life—whether you have enough food and drink, or enough clothes to wear. Isn’t life more than food, and your body more than clothing?26 Look at the birds. They don’t plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your heavenly Father feeds them. And aren’t you far more valuable to him than they are?27 Can all your worries add a single moment to your life?
28 “And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don’t work or make their clothing,29 yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are.30 And if God cares so wonderfully for wildflowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith?
31 “So don’t worry about these things, saying, ‘What will we eat? What will we drink? What will we wear?’32 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs.33 Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.
34 “So don’t worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today’s trouble is enough for today.
Matt 6:24-34 (NLT)

Something I learned 10 plus years ago being involved in the FGBMFI and witnessing the practices of many of the WOF iconic messengers, I cannot find one scripture that indicates that new covenant believers should ever give to those who are rich in material goods. Yet it is encouraged by many WOF preachers and is for the most part how they became wealthy.

Teach these things, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. 3 Some people may contradict our teaching, but these are the wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. These teachings promote a godly life.4 Anyone who teaches something different is arrogant and lacks understanding. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, division, slander, and evil suspicions.5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy.
6 Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth.7 After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it.8 So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.
9 But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction.10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.
1 Tim 6:2-10 (NLT)

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

jiggyfly said:
I still don't see anything of giving with expectation in the scriptures you posted. But maybe I missed it. Care to point it out?:wink:

If GOD says that when we give gladly we WILL be blessed in kind, it would really be stupid NOT to expect GOD to keep HIS WORD. Wouldn't it?

jiggyfly · Jan 10, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
If GOD says that when we give gladly we WILL be blessed in kind, it would really be stupid NOT to expect GOD to keep HIS WORD. Wouldn't it?

FYI, I added to my earlier post.

Well do I need to expect God to keep His word in order for Him to keep His word? Does God need to be held accountable by us in order for Him to do what is promised?
If I give and don't expect anything in return does that mean that God won't keep His promise?

Thiscrosshurts · Jan 10, 2012

A farmer who plants a field of wheat would be insane to say "Well I planted five thousand acres of wheat but I don't expect anything to come up. That would not be right?

That is rich,I have to admit I love that logic.
Keep in mind he's not expecting more of what he sowed.
He is expecting something completely different.
I don't sow seed expecting more seed but something even more useful.
So I would not expect a harvest of cash by planting a little.
I would expect a marvelous harvest of something better than I sowed.

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

jiggyfly said:
FYI, I added to my earlier post.

Well do I need to expect God to keep His word in order for Him to keep His word? Does God need to be held accountable by us in order for Him to do what is promised?
If I give and don't expect anything in return does that mean that God won't keep His promise?

Huh? Did you really ask that? Truly?

expect

[ik-spekt]

Example Sentences Origin
ex·pect

[ik-spekt]

Show IPA
verb (used with object) 1. to look forward to; regard as likely to happen; anticipate the occurrence or the coming of: I expect to read it. I expect him later. She expects that they will come.

2. to look for with reason or justification: We expect obedience.

3. Informal . to suppose or surmise; guess: I expect that you are tired from the trip.

4. to anticipate the birth of (one's child): Paul and Sylvia expect their second very soon.

Of course you expect God to do as HE said!!
You are HIS son for crying out loud. You have all the rights authorities and heritage that your brother JESUS has.

If GOD said it ...Expect it. Unless you don't believe HIM?

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

Thiscrosshurts said:
That is rich,I have to admit I love that logic.
Keep in mind he's not expecting more of what he sowed.
He is expecting something completely different.
I don't sow seed expecting more seed but something even more useful.
So I would not expect a harvest of cash by planting a little.
I would expect a marvelous harvest of something better than I sowed.

He's expecting something different from what he planted? He planted wheat and expects oranges? No. He expects a bumper crop of WHEAT.

If the Word says it TCH Believe it.

El Hombre viejo · Jan 10, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
He's expecting something different from what he planted? He planted wheat and expects oranges? No. He expects a bumper crop of WHEAT.

If the Word says it TCH Believe it.

Galatians 6:7 (Amplified Bible)

7Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked a</a>]">[a]by mere pretensions or professions, or by His precepts being set aside.) [He inevitably deludes himself who attempts to delude God.] For whatever a man sows, that and b</a>]">[b]that only is what he will reap.

This verse applies to behavior, prayer, giving planting WHATSOEVER

jiggyfly · Jan 10, 2012

El Hombre viejo said:
Galatians 6:7 (Amplified Bible)

7Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked a</a>]">[a]by mere pretensions or professions, or by His precepts being set aside.) [He inevitably deludes himself who attempts to delude God.] For whatever a man sows, that and b</a>]">[b]that only is what he will reap.

This verse applies to behavior, prayer, giving planting WHATSOEVER

Exactly, what you receive is directly related to and proportionate to what you have sown.

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With No Expectations

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