Woman in Ministry

[allforihs]

Women preachers and in leadership is contrary to biblical teaching. And, as a practical matter, the modern practice of having women as ministers has been an overall detriment to christendom (I won't go into that can of worms in this post).

And Elder is to be a man of one woman.
A Deacon is to be a man of one woman.
In the OT, priests were specifically to be men.
Jesus selected only men as his 12 disciples.

Paul says a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man. Someone might say, "Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order." Seriously? Then why did Paul say "women" instead of "people"? This chapter isn't addressing a problem of a chaotic assembly, it is instructions on how a woman is to present herself.

Those promoting women in the ministry are trying to shoehorn godless values into the Church. Pheobe wasn't a leader, she was a servant. Priscilla wasn't a teacher, and even if she did help teach, it was informal and with her husband. Even if these women were what pagans claim to them to be, it would be because of special circumstances that do not justify throwing away the general teaching and example of the Bible. In the OT, Deborah was a judge, not a priest, not a king, but a judge. Her leadership was a result of no man willing to take the job. And, she stepped down as soon as a man was willing to take leadership.

The Bible is not Politically Correct. It is Righteously Correct.

 

[MelodyC]

hen it comes to who should be a Minister it always seems to comes the argument of "why can't a woman be a Minister?".

No One ever asks the question is WHO does God accept to be a Minister before Him.

Now I know we are under a New Covenant but Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the Old Covenant but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17-20) and so the Old Testament commandments, teachings and law still have some value.

Here is a good example of what I am talking about here from the days of Moses. Moses was approached by Korah and his followers who were Levites. It is from the clan of the Levites we get the Priests who served in the Holy of Holies, but not every Levite could serve as High Priest. Korah and his family had other Temple Duties assigned to them. They were gatekeepers.

1CH 9:17 The gatekeepers:
Shallum, Akkub, Talmon, Ahiman and their brothers, Shallum their chief 18 being stationed at the King's Gate on the east, up to the present time. These were the gatekeepers belonging to the camp of the Levites. 19 Shallum son of Kore, the son of Ebiasaph, the son of Korah, and his fellow gatekeepers from his family (the Korahites) were responsible for guarding the thresholds of the Tent just as their fathers had been responsible for guarding the entrance to the dwelling of the LORD. 20 In earlier times Phinehas son of Eleazar was in charge of the gatekeepers, and the LORD was with him. 21 Zechariah son of Meshelemiah was the gatekeeper at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.

Korah decided he didn't want to just serve God in the temple as a mere gatekeeper. No he wanted the top job as High Priest so he challenged Moses and Aaron about it. Here is what happened.

NU 16:1 Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and certain Reubenites--Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth--became insolent 2 and rose up against Moses. With them were 250 Israelite men, well-known community leaders who had been appointed members of the council. 3 They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, "You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the LORD's assembly?"

NU 16:4 When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. 5 Then he said to Korah and all his followers: "In the morning the LORD will show who belongs to him and who is holy, and he will have that person come near him. The man he chooses he will cause to come near him. 6 You, Korah, and all your followers are to do this: Take censers 7 and tomorrow put fire and incense in them before the LORD. The man the LORD chooses will be the one who is holy. You Levites have gone too far!"

NU 16:8 Moses also said to Korah, "Now listen, you Levites! 9 Isn't it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the Israelite community and brought you near himself to do the work at the LORD's tabernacle and to stand before the community and minister to them? 10 He has brought you and all your fellow Levites near himself, but now you are trying to get the priesthood too. 11 It is against the LORD that you and all your followers have banded together. Who is Aaron that you should grumble against him?"

NU 16:12 Then Moses summoned Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab. But they said, "We will not come! 13 Isn't it enough that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the desert? And now you also want to lord it over us? 14 Moreover, you haven't brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey or given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Will you gouge out the eyes of these men? No, we will not come!"

NU 16:15 Then Moses became very angry and said to the LORD, "Do not accept their offering. I have not taken so much as a donkey from them, nor have I wronged any of them."

NU 16:16 Moses said to Korah, "You and all your followers are to appear before the LORD tomorrow--you and they and Aaron. 17 Each man is to take his censer and put incense in it--250 censers in all--and present it before the LORD. You and Aaron are to present your censers also." 18 So each man took his censer, put fire and incense in it, and stood with Moses and Aaron at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 19 When Korah had gathered all his followers in opposition to them at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, the glory of the LORD appeared to the entire assembly. 20 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 21 "Separate yourselves from this assembly so I can put an end to them at once."

NU 16:22 But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and cried out, "O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?"

NU 16:23 Then the LORD said to Moses, 24 "Say to the assembly, `Move away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.' "

NU 16:25 Moses got up and went to Dathan and Abiram, and the elders of Israel followed him. 26 He warned the assembly, "Move back from the tents of these wicked men! Do not touch anything belonging to them, or you will be swept away because of all their sins." 27 So they moved away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. Dathan and Abiram had come out and were standing with their wives, children and little ones at the entrances to their tents.

NU 16:28 Then Moses said, "This is how you will know that the LORD has sent me to do all these things and that it was not my idea: 29 If these men die a natural death and experience only what usually happens to men, then the LORD has not sent me. 30 But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know that these men have treated the LORD with contempt."

NU 16:31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the grave, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, "The earth is going to swallow us too!"

NU 16:35 And fire came out from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.

NU 16:36 The LORD said to Moses, 37 "Tell Eleazar son of Aaron, the priest, to take the censers out of the smoldering remains and scatter the coals some distance away, for the censers are holy-- 38 the censers of the men who sinned at the cost of their lives. Hammer the censers into sheets to overlay the altar, for they were presented before the LORD and have become holy. Let them be a sign to the Israelites."

NU 16:39 So Eleazar the priest collected the bronze censers brought by those who had been burned up, and he had them hammered out to overlay the altar, 40 as the LORD directed him through Moses. This was to remind the Israelites that no one except a descendant of Aaron should come to burn incense before the LORD, or he would become like Korah and his followers.

NU 16:41 The next day the whole Israelite community grumbled against Moses and Aaron. "You have killed the LORD's people," they said.

NU 16:42 But when the assembly gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron and turned toward the Tent of Meeting, suddenly the cloud covered it and the glory of the LORD appeared. 43 Then Moses and Aaron went to the front of the Tent of Meeting, 44 and the LORD said to Moses, 45 "Get away from this assembly so I can put an end to them at once." And they fell facedown.

NU 16:46 Then Moses said to Aaron, "Take your censer and put incense in it, along with fire from the altar, and hurry to the assembly to make atonement for them. Wrath has come out from the LORD; the plague has started." 47 So Aaron did as Moses said, and ran into the midst of the assembly. The plague had already started among the people, but Aaron offered the incense and made atonement for them. 48 He stood between the living and the dead, and the plague stopped. 49 But 14,700 people died from the plague, in addition to those who had died because of Korah. 50 Then Aaron returned to Moses at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, for the plague had stopped.

There is more for those who want to get the whole story pleace go to Numbers and keep reading.

How did it all turn out? God dealt with those who like Korah wanted to Usurp the position of High Priest and enter before Him in the Holy of Holies when God did not want them.

Moral of the story is God has a preference of WHO He desires to come before Him as Priest or Minister. If you are not it don't put yourself in line of being dealt with by God. We are under the New Covenant. God doesn't strike us down with lightening or has the ground open up and swallow us up when we directly go against His will. However don't be fooled God will deal with every person who tries to Ursurp a position they should not be in.

It is like in the old days when they brought UNACCEPTABLE Sacrifices before God. Instead of the first born male lamb of the flock in top condition they tried to pass off the lame and blind etc..

MAL 1:7 "You place defiled food on my altar.
"But you ask, `How have we defiled you?'
"By saying that the LORD's table is contemptible. 8 When you bring blind animals for sacrifice, is that not wrong? When you sacrifice crippled or diseased animals, is that not wrong? Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you?" says the LORD Almighty.

MAL 1:9 "Now implore God to be gracious to us. With such offerings from your hands, will he accept you?"--says the LORD Almighty.

MAL 1:10 "Oh, that one of you would shut the temple doors, so that you would not light useless fires on my altar! I am not pleased with you," says the LORD Almighty, "and I will accept no offering from your hands. 11 My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.

MAL 1:12 "But you profane it by saying of the Lord's table, `It is defiled,' and of its food, `It is contemptible.' 13 And you say, `What a burden!' and you sniff at it contemptuously," says the LORD Almighty.
"When you bring injured, crippled or diseased animals and offer them as sacrifices, should I accept them from your hands?" says the LORD. 14 "Cursed is the cheat who has an acceptable male in his flock and vows to give it, but then sacrifices a blemished animal to the Lord. For I am a great king," says the LORD Almighty, "and my name is to be feared among the nations.

God wants us to serve Him according to His condition and terms. Anything outside that is UNACCEPTABLE or as the Lord says Defiled.

There are certain MEN who do not qualify for the position of Minister either. A minister cannot be a woman or men who do not met certain conditions.

God wants what He wants. Anything less than that will not do. End of story.

 

[dannibear]

Thank you for this post Chad. I really do appreciate your work on this site.

I will go ahead and add these verses to my flash drive on this subject.
I can go forward in God's plan to obtain a license for medical work and help children in third world countries with curable illnesses. I can help them with physical illness, but I will preach about the Heavenly Father who can heal souls.
There is no discrimination in His word, but redemption.

 

[lioncub]

Women preachers and in leadership is contrary to biblical teaching. And, as a practical matter, the modern practice of having women as ministers has been an overall detriment to christendom (I won't go into that can of worms in this post).

And Elder is to be a man of one woman.
A Deacon is to be a man of one woman.
In the OT, priests were specifically to be men.
Jesus selected only men as his 12 disciples.

Paul says a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man. Someone might say, "Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order." Seriously? Then why did Paul say "women" instead of "people"? This chapter isn't addressing a problem of a chaotic assembly, it is instructions on how a woman is to present herself.

Those promoting women in the ministry are trying to shoehorn godless values into the Church. Pheobe wasn't a leader, she was a servant. Priscilla wasn't a teacher, and even if she did help teach, it was informal and with her husband. Even if these women were what pagans claim to them to be, it would be because of special circumstances that do not justify throwing away the general teaching and example of the Bible. In the OT, Deborah was a judge, not a priest, not a king, but a judge. Her leadership was a result of no man willing to take the job. And, she stepped down as soon as a man was willing to take leadership.

The Bible is not Politically Correct. It is Righteously Correct.

I agree. No wonder there is an identity crisis in the home and in today's churches. The churches are in error when they promote women teaching over men. All for the sake of trying to be relevant ! A disgrace !

Many cannot accept the plain interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:12 "Now I am not permitting a woman to be teaching nor yet to be domineering of man, but to be in quietness".

 

[dannibear]

Many cannot accept the plain interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:12 "Now I am not permitting a woman to be teaching nor yet to be domineering of man, but to be in quietness".

1 Timothy 2:15

I guess the way Jesus treated women so radically in His time
doesn't seem to matter.

 

[dannibear]

Guess I should elaborate:

The world that Jesus was born into thought women were
so inferior that they said being born of a woman was
a punishment because they thought women was halfway
between a man and an animal. They were not allowed to
talk to men in public, even their husbands. They weren't
allowed to eat in the same room as a gathering of men,
be educated in the Torah, or be in the affairs of men in
the marketplace, politics, or religion. The Pharisees even
prayed every day, thanking God they were not born
a 'Gentile, woman, or slave.'

When Jesus talked to women in public, does anyone
not realize the huge step He took to do that?
It was considered a disgrace to an honorable Jewish man.
But He broke the boundaries to save the adulteress from
being stoned, He broke the boundaries when He taught Mary
of Bethany and even told her sister Martha that Mary
didn't belong in the kitchen, she was right where she needed
to be. When Jesus told the woman at the well that He was
God, what did she do? Run and tell the entire village (preach)
even though women weren't considered credible witnesses.
And because of her bravery, she led the entire town to Jesus.
While the males argued who was getting a better place in Heaven,
the women Jesus taught were telling others about Jesus.
And besides, when Jesus taught those women He encountered,
I KNOW that He didn't want them to keep that to themselves.
What good is it to have the knowledge and not share Jesus? None.

Jesus came and died so that we may all be joined to God again.
Sure women weren't allowed to preach. But the Child in childbearing
arrived, preached, died, and rose again. When are people
going to open their eyes to what Jesus did, and realize that
He came to destroy the works of the Devil, and DID! 1 John 3:8

 

[dannibear]

Jesus selected only men as his 12 disciples.

The argument that women should be barred from some church ministries because Christ's apostles were all men represents a regression to pre-resurrection conditions. Consistent adherence to this rule would require that not only women be excluded from ministry but also Gentiles, since Jesus and his apostles were Jews. Church leadership and ministry should then be only assumed by Jewish men.

To put it otherwise, to be consistent, Pope John-Paul II's contention that all priests should be male because Christ's apostles were male also requires that all priests be Jews because the apostles were Jews. Moreover, consistency also requires that priests be married, since the apostle Peter, the Pope's alleged predecessor, and other apostles were married ( Matt. 18:14-15; 1 Cor. 9:5), and since only married men with families could become overseers (1 Tim. 3:2, 4). But thanks be to God that the New Testament declares all considerations of race, class, and gender irrelevant to the life of the church because of Christ's gift of oneness to the new community (Gal. 3:28).

 

[Brother Mike]

Women, and their place...........

LionCub:

Many cannot accept the plain interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:12 "Now I am not permitting a woman to be teaching nor yet to be domineering of man, but to be in quietness".

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


Many cannot accept we are to Use the Word line upon line, comparing spiritual with spiritual. Many cannot accept that we can't take one set of scripture and giving it a private interpretation, or stand alone meaning.

What did Paul say?

No women is to usurp authority over man. She is not to overtake his teaching, but to remain silent.

That means a man in charge, let no women question him, and remain silent. The man is the head, and women are to respect that, and let the man run things.

This did not say that a women can not teach, or have a ministry. A women is not to usurp authority over the man in charge.


Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Read that again........... Help the women which helped Paul spread the Word of God. What?

AMP:
Php 4:3 And I exhort you too, [my] genuine yokefellow, help these [two women to keep on cooperating], for they have toiled along with me in [the spreading of] the good news (the Gospel), as have Clement and the rest of my fellow workers whose names are in the Book of Life.

These women preached the Word with Paul. How can that be?

Apollos Showed and instructed in a better way by women teaching the truth.

Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.


Women can have just as much ministry as a man. God made women subject to man, but many men are not worthy being subjected to. That is our fault



Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Julie1983]

1 Cor. 14:34,35

The historical context of the 1 Cor. 14 passage prohibits the female Christians from blurting out questions to their husbands, during a Christian teaching, who were seated across the aisle (as was the historical seating arrangement back then). For the wives to speak out like that would interfere with the teaching and was a disgraceful thing to do. There can be no doubt that Christian women did verbally speak during the Christian assemblies back then, as shown from other Scriptures. Notice what else Paul wrote just a few chapters earlier:

And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved (1 Cor. 11:5).

According to that Scripture, at least some Christian women did pray or prophesy, yet this would not violate them remaining silent in the churches. The context of the chapter was their religious meetings (11:17).

Similarly, we have the following Scripture:

Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God. (Titus 2:3-5)

Titus was to teach the older women, who in turn would teach the younger women the various things cited. Paul, who wouldn’t permit a woman to teach, (1 Tim. 2:12) wanted older women to teach younger women but remain silent in the church (as understood from the above).

1 Tim. 2:12-14

The 1 Tim. 2:12-14 passage doesn’t prohibit the aforementioned but does prohibit a woman from having an authoritative teaching position in the church such as a pastor. Paul cited the reason and stated that Eve was the one deceived and not Adam. Consequently, women are more likely to be deceived. If they are in a teaching position declaring concepts that are false they could spiritually stumble their listeners. Hence, women were not allowed in that position or to have authority over a man including their own husbands. The context of that Scripture is a church setting.

There are several other Scriptures that relate to this issue and they show all Christians, including the females, are to verbally spread the gospel message. In Jude 3:4, we read:

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

Jude wrote this general warning to urge all Christians, including the females, to contend for the faith against the grace changers. It is so vital to expose and refute these dangerous false teachers that everyone who is Christian is commanded to get involved and contend for the truth against their false version of grace. It is a sin not to! Jude exalted that message above writing about the salvation they shared! To hinder Christian women from contending against the eternal security teachers in our day will allow this evil to spread more, thereby jeopardizing more souls to hell besides hindering them from obeying that command.

In Hebrews, we read:

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! (5:11,12)

The unnamed writer of Hebrews gave a rebuke to all the Hebrew Christians and said that they first came to the Lord long enough ago that by now they should all be teachers. But what kind of teachers were they all to be, since women are restricted from having authority over men and are to remain silent in the church?

The Lord Jesus commanded the Twelve,

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age (Mt. 28:19,20).

Jesus told the Twelve (all men) to go and make disciples and to teach those disciples (men and women) to obey everything the Twelve were commanded. That command would include making disciples and teaching them, and would have to be given to both males and females. A corroborating passage is found in Acts 8:

But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison. Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went. (Acts 8:3,4)

Saul persecuted women just like he did the men. Apparently he saw them as a threat too. But the same passage also shows that all who were scattered, including men and women, preached the word wherever they went. In other words, they witnessed and obeyed the general command found in Mt. 28:19,20. (This little nugget reveals something about the early church that is very lacking in our dark hour—they were soul winners similar to street evangelists as we might say in our day.)

This evidence shows that male and female Christians are both commanded to spread the plan of salvation verbally as they did in first-century Christianity.
Copied with permission

 

[dannibear]

Beautiful post Julie, it added to the basic knowledge
I had of the room where the disciples were hiding.
I am adding this to my special sermon folder.