Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

[RJ]

Yes in indeed but we are originally talking about being saved. I believe you must keep these true works in perspective.

• God's Grace first
  
• Then Faith
• Salvation
• Works of the Holy Ghost through us that justifies us before God and proves we are saved.....after all, he is the vine, we are the branch, it is his fruit we bear unless we could boast about it!
• Works are very important but do not supersede Grace, Faith and Salvation!

To follow up, repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit. Romans 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
An unbeliever could care less about repentance. 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Repentance by a believer is a work that justifies you and is proof that you have been saved. Grace, Faith,Salvation, followed by works...repentance is a work. This is the order but everyone is different, this happens instantly / simultaneously for some with more time in between for others.

 

[WaterRock]

I asked, and he said I should ask you.

O, so you're prophet, well Bless you in the name of the LORD.

When I read James' words I see that what I do shows what I really believe.

Might consider 2 Peter 1:21

The Apostle Peter comes to mind. He told Christ he'd die for him rather than see him arrested and executed. But when push came to shove, instead of trusting God, he ran away. I guess his cowardice showed his lack of faith, just as his bravery--if he had not fled and let himself be crucified with Christ--would have demonstrated he was not lacking in faith.

As written in John 15:14, Jesus had said, Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Considering that which was written in Mark 8:31-34
31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
then Peter might have showing the highest valor by his obedience.

But are you thinking what I do is more than just an effect of faith? Are you thinking what I do is a cause of salvation?

That is something I cannot answer, since only God and you know what is in your heart..

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Repentance in perspective if I may @Spockrates ?
As stated, repentance occurs (previous post).

If we may liken a bathtub of water, more precisely the water in the tub, which when the plug is pulled (taken away), the contents flow out (from within the vessel).
Much study may /will reveal many facts depending on factors which may vary.
The water flows regardless of what analysis or observations are made or missed. One may see laws at work but the water flowing is not a law nor is it due to a law that man decides upon but rather due to the liberty and the law of liberty at work.
Psalm 119:45
Isaiah 61:1

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:2

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

This may help?
Dave Andrews
Dave Andrews, Christian community worker and writer in Australia

Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

(Ephesians 2:8-10)

So I have a lot of questions about the meaning of this passage of scripture. I don't doubt it means we are saved by grace, nor through faith, nor apart from our own good deeds. I'm just wondering if the passage means we are saved through faith alone--through nothing else but faith.

I tend to ask a lot of follow up questions, but don't feel obligated to answer them all. Post and go, or post and stay as long as you like to help me learn the truth.

Spock, We are saved by "grace" alone!!! But if you want to "access" this salvation, which was given to us by "grace" that requires "faith"! Nobody is save by faith, we are saved by grace through faith.
All the promises of God were given to us are all by "grace", meaning we do not deserve it. Yet if we want to experience them in our lives it will require faith on our part to "access" them.
The reason it is by "grace" we are saved, is because there is nothing you could ever do to earn it, not even faith can earn salvation, because faith has "works" connected to it, and salvation is not of works!!

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Faith is the "key" that allows us "access" to grace by which every thing is given to us!

 

[RJ]

Faith is the "key" that allows us "access" to grace by which every thing is given to us!

Yes and here is what I love, this faith initially comes from God as another gift!

 

[Curtis]

Yes and here is what I love, this faith initially comes from God as another gift!

There is no doubt every thing we have comes from the Lord God who has given us all things to richly enjoy!

 

[RJ]

There is no doubt every thing we have comes from the Lord God who has given us all things to richly enjoy!

James 1: 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. :thumbsup:
It is always such a pleasure to converse with another believer that is so well connected to the absolute energy source of the universe.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

@Curtis and all,
the concept of 'not deserving' as so often referred to regarding Grace, is not correct in that the gift is from Love. It is not about if we deserve or not but simply and surely due to the love of God. There is a difference.
GOD gives because He gives, not because of our merit. The reference is that we can not add to either His Gift or His giving and more particularly do anything through the Law (works).

Likewise, the concept of 'works of faith' as referred to so often is not correct if applied in the manner so frequently as to imply that works are needed for the giving and receiving of Grace.
The 'works' in "faith without works is dead" is not the 'works' of the law.
The works of faith are the consequences of Life, the result of Life, the Way of Life.

Bless you ....><>

 

[RJ]

Greetings,

@Curtis and all,
the concept of 'not deserving' as so often referred to regarding Grace, is not correct in that the gift is from Love. It is not about if we deserve or not but simply and surely due to the love of God. There is a difference.
GOD gives because He gives, not because of our merit. The reference is that we can not add to either His Gift or His giving and more particularly do anything through the Law (works).

Likewise, the concept of 'works of faith' as referred to so often is not correct if applied in the manner so frequently as to imply that works are needed for the giving and receiving of Grace.
The 'works' in "faith without works is dead" is not the 'works' of the law.
The works of faith are the consequences of Life, the result of Life, the Way of Life.

Bless you ....><>

I , as one of the others, never thought it to be any other way!

 

[Curtis]

Greetings,

@Curtis and all,
the concept of 'not deserving' as so often referred to regarding Grace, is not correct in that the gift is from Love. It is not about if we deserve or not but simply and surely due to the love of God. There is a difference.
GOD gives because He gives, not because of our merit. The reference is that we can not add to either His Gift or His giving and more particularly do anything through the Law (works).

Likewise, the concept of 'works of faith' as referred to so often is not correct if applied in the manner so frequently as to imply that works are needed for the giving and receiving of Grace.
The 'works' in "faith without works is dead" is not the 'works' of the law.
The works of faith are the consequences of Life, the result of Life, the Way of Life.

Bless you ....><>

Brother, God gives his grace out of love for man, so from his perspective it had nothing to do with what man could ever do, it is just because of who we are. From mans perspective grace is given as a gift from God, as all gifts are given free to man being not deserving of it. We give gifts to our children not because that are deserving of it, but because of who they are.
Grace can never be accessed without faith being its key. We are saved by grace alone without any works of any kind. The works of faith is what God does, not what man does. "Faith works by love". God alone by himself is love, which means only God can do the works of faith. If any man has faith, then God him self works through that person. Abraham understood this perfectly when scripture tells us....
being fully persuaded that, what he (God) had promised, he was able also to perform.. This was describing Abraham's faith. It would be God who would work Abraham s faith

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,


For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:2

From mans perspective grace is given as a gift from God, as all gifts are given free to man being not deserving of it.

as all gifts are given free to man being loved of God.
And surely it is from God's perspective that Grace is given as a gift from Him.

Bless you ...><>

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Greetings,

@Curtis and all,
the concept of 'not deserving' as so often referred to regarding Grace, is not correct in that the gift is from Love. It is not about if we deserve or not but simply and surely due to the love of God. There is a difference.
GOD gives because He gives, not because of our merit. The reference is that we can not add to either His Gift or His giving and more particularly do anything through the Law (works).

Likewise, the concept of 'works of faith' as referred to so often is not correct if applied in the manner so frequently as to imply that works are needed for the giving and receiving of Grace.
The 'works' in "faith without works is dead" is not the 'works' of the law.
The works of faith are the consequences of Life, the result of Life, the Way of Life.

Bless you ....><>

Hello Brother Bear,
I am wondering to what you meant by this one line..(( The works of faith are the consequences of Life, the result of Life, the Way of Life.))

It seems this could be taken several ways and I did not want to reply with the wrong notion of what you are saying.
Thanks Brother,
Blessings
Jim

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

@Wired 4 Fishen ,Jim,
I was aware that the use of the word /term, consequences, may be questionable ;
n. late 14c., "inference, conclusion," from Old French consequence "result" (13c., Modern French conséquence), from Latin consequentia, from consequentem (nominativeconsequens), present participle of consequi "to follow after," from com- "with" (see com- )+ sequi "to follow" (see sequel ).
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

@Spockrates ,
have you ever grown sprouts? Like wheat sprouts,for example.

Bless you ....><>

 

[Chopper]

Hi there Spockrates I haven't bumped into you for quite some time now. Your OP was about faith. A long time ago, in studying Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.(ESV) It seemed that I got a familiar "jab" from the Holy Spirit, so I stopped to meditate on the verse.

Here is what I saw. In the words, "I live by faith in the Son of God" After checking out the original Greek, I found that that little word "by" is better interpreted "in". Gk. ἐν meaning in. Also, the definite article "the" is left out, so if I understand a correct translation of the verse, it will say, "I live in the faith of the Son of God." This tells me that I don't have faith. I needed faith to be saved, and I understand that even that was a gift from God so I could be saved.

I really don't understand what happened, but when I realized that I was exercising Jesus' faith when I prayed for something to happen, it happened! Before, I was very weak in my faith, and not much happened outside of my own doing.

 

[Spockrates]

O, so you're prophet, well Bless you in the name of the LORD.

If you are speaking seriously, I'd say we have different ideas about what a prophet is. To me, a prophet is someone to whom God speaks, giving that person information to which no one else is privy. When such a one communicates what God conveyed, that prophet might be said to be a spokesperson for God. I have not received any information from God that no one else has, and I certainly am not his messenger. So I do not consider myself a prophet.

Might consider 2 Peter 1:21

I don't understand what 2 Peter 1:21 has to do with one's actions demonstrating one's faith. Please explain.

As written in John 15:14, Jesus had said, Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Considering that which was written in Mark 8:31-34
31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
32 And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him.
33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
then Peter might have showing the highest valor by his obedience.

I don't think cutting off an ear of one who came to arrest Christ was showing obedience. Though it might have been misplaced valor. But I was speaking of what Peter did when Christ told him to put his knife away. He ran away, rather than letting himself be arrested and crucified with Christ.

That is something I cannot answer, since only God and you know what is in your heart..

I'm certain that in my heart, or mind, or soul, I do not know. But if you do not know, either, then it seems we are both unsure of how to be saved.

 

[Spockrates]

Greetings,

Repentance in perspective if I may @Spockrates ?
As stated, repentance occurs (previous post).

If we may liken a bathtub of water, more precisely the water in the tub, which when the plug is pulled (taken away), the contents flow out (from within the vessel).
Much study may /will reveal many facts depending on factors which may vary.
The water flows regardless of what analysis or observations are made or missed. One may see laws at work but the water flowing is not a law nor is it due to a law that man decides upon but rather due to the liberty and the law of liberty at work.
Psalm 119:45
Isaiah 61:1

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:2

Bless you ....><>

Brother:

That water went over my head! The spiritual truth seems to be getting too deep for me. Do you mind coming into the shallow end of the pool and giving me a more simple definition of repentance?

 

[Spockrates]

Spock, We are saved by "grace" alone!!! But if you want to "access" this salvation, which was given to us by "grace" that requires "faith"! Nobody is save by faith, we are saved by grace through faith.
All the promises of God were given to us are all by "grace", meaning we do not deserve it. Yet if we want to experience them in our lives it will require faith on our part to "access" them.
The reason it is by "grace" we are saved, is because there is nothing you could ever do to earn it, not even faith can earn salvation, because faith has "works" connected to it, and salvation is not of works!!

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Faith is the "key" that allows us "access" to grace by which every thing is given to us!

Curtis:

Yes, I understand we are saved by grace alone through faith. What I wonder is this: Are we saved by grace alone through faith alone? Or are we saved by grace alone through faith plus something besides faith? What do you think?

 

[Spockrates]

Greetings,

@Spockrates ,
have you ever grown sprouts? Like wheat sprouts,for example.

Bless you ....><>

No. I've managed to grow mold, raspberries, herbs and grass? Why do you ask?