Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)

[Dovegiven]

Also, when connecting to your bank account to transfer some money, you want to be sure it's a secure communication, at least a TLS Handshake Protocol connection, or maybe better these days.

I hear the Lord's "voice", know it's him. I know it mostly by studying the things he said and how he put his words. I know the Bible well, don't have to ask a WWJD question of anyone. I know his mind, his will, his personality, his ways. I instantly know counterfeit messages, because those are as loudly absurd as a man calling a child to come home while trying to imitate the child's mother's voice.

A few days ago my wife began having several heart attack symptoms, so we headed to the ER. I petitioned the Lord with "Lord?" He immediately responded inwardly with "Fear not."
I told her it seems right to say the Lord is saying already "fear not". Both of us heard a voice saying "get your house in order quickly". She wrote down some document locations as we drove. We prayed, then I got the truth of that matter. If the Lord wanted us to get our house in order (prepare for a death), the Lord would have given ample notice of that. We then knew a false voice was involved, possibly from Satan or a demon, or maybe that was a "normal" conclusion of our own intellect, the seat of self deceptions.

She began feeling better, but we went on to a walk-in clinic instead, where they applied an ECG test. Her heart report was perfect, and they couldn't find any other signs of sickness. We think her problem was peanut butter candy, so I put it away. We won't tempt God by experimenting to confirm. We thanked the Lord for letting us know her heart is very healthy for her age.

Jesus got an extreme notification of his upcoming execution, Moses and Elijah coming down to discuss the manner of his death.
Luke 9:29-31 (KJV)
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Again, Paul was told by the prophet Agabus of his impending arrest in Acts 21:10-14 (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

There are many instances of God sending advance notice of a future calamity, being apt to warn yet not interfere unless petitioned.

To know you can trust what is being downloaded as being from the Lord, know the Word so you can judge the voice as true or false.

 

[Dovegiven]

........And I think that although God is completely capable of speaking directly to your thoughts or mine, he also does choose to use others to speak his mind to us. If he did not, then why would we have any Bible teachers, apologists and preachers at all?

But since we rely on those God chose to be our teachers, we run the risk of being taught by teachers who are deceivers, though for no fault of their own. For they themselves are deceived.

Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception, or have I correctly conveyed the mind of Christ?

1 John 2:26-27 (KJV)
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Probably most people in the world who are Christians have no teacher, no pastor, having only a portion of a New Testament to study, passing it around to fellow believers, trying to avoid extreme persecution.
A friend who was an agriculture specialist was sent to a foreign Muslim nation to teach farmers there all the latest American methods of accelerated food production. What was begun as a one year project kept him there 20 years until retiring. When word got out that this beloved man was a Christian, locals began "volunteering" to help him run a pilot farm, the true intent to harvest as much knowledge of Christianity as possible. He learned they already had a good understanding, but wanted confirmation while encountering him alone in a field of crops. Church leaders there disappear as quickly as they are discovered, so it was rare for anyone to be known as a teacher, not knowing for sure who to trust.

God does anoint teachers who establish their truthfulness, who can accelerate one's learning, reducing your learning curve to a minimum, otherwise taking a believer decades to cover the whole.
Paul wrote that he didn't consult any apostle after his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, but went off into seclusion for 3 years, instructed of the Holy Spirit. What he taught and wrote didn't conflict with anything the others taught and wrote.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

And I think that although God is completely capable of speaking directly to your thoughts or mine,

Yes,but it won't make any sense to an unregenerate mind or like 8 bit processor won't process 64 bit software.
I once had a revelation that everything is a different manifestation of the same thing.
I received this information 20 years before I was able to process it.
The information "hit me" in a way that I could not ignore it,connections started forming and I started noticing how this was like that and that was like this.

Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception, or have I correctly conveyed the mind of Christ?

Yes,well at least as well as an 8 bit can process.
I think over the last 20 years God has showed me how build 64 bit virtual environment to run his programs but they run real sl-o-w-w-w and I get hangups and crashes.
What I think is that we always had a 64 bit but the malware still has channels locked down.

I rarely get answers about questions when I seek them,I usually get a question that shows me my original
question was based on a total misunderstanding of the nature of reality.When I received the revelation that
"everything is a different manifestation of the same thing",I was asking why I was losing battles that I would have
easily won before I started being serious about obedience (In other words I was whining).

Now if you asked me how everything can be a different manifestation of the same thing I could show you the path of discovery it took 20 years for me to process.
So I feel many times we receive a revelation and we simply disregard it because it does not make sense and that gives the enemy a chance to meet you at the crossroads disguised as a guide but is ready to harness your energy to help him carve the path to nowhere that he is convinced is going to be a back door to the throne

 

[Spockrates]

Also, when connecting to your bank account to transfer some money, you want to be sure it's a secure communication, at least a TLS Handshake Protocol connection, or maybe better these days.

I hear the Lord's "voice", know it's him. I know it mostly by studying the things he said and how he put his words. I know the Bible well, don't have to ask a WWJD question of anyone. I know his mind, his will, his personality, his ways. I instantly know counterfeit messages, because those are as loudly absurd as a man calling a child to come home while trying to imitate the child's mother's voice.

A few days ago my wife began having several heart attack symptoms, so we headed to the ER. I petitioned the Lord with "Lord?" He immediately responded inwardly with "Fear not."
I told her it seems right to say the Lord is saying already "fear not". Both of us heard a voice saying "get your house in order quickly". She wrote down some document locations as we drove. We prayed, then I got the truth of that matter. If the Lord wanted us to get our house in order (prepare for a death), the Lord would have given ample notice of that. We then knew a false voice was involved, possibly from Satan or a demon, or maybe that was a "normal" conclusion of our own intellect, the seat of self deceptions.

She began feeling better, but we went on to a walk-in clinic instead, where they applied an ECG test. Her heart report was perfect, and they couldn't find any other signs of sickness. We think her problem was peanut butter candy, so I put it away. We won't tempt God by experimenting to confirm. We thanked the Lord for letting us know her heart is very healthy for her age.

Jesus got an extreme notification of his upcoming execution, Moses and Elijah coming down to discuss the manner of his death.
Luke 9:29-31 (KJV)
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Again, Paul was told by the prophet Agabus of his impending arrest in Acts 21:10-14 (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.

There are many instances of God sending advance notice of a future calamity, being apt to warn yet not interfere unless petitioned.

To know you can trust what is being downloaded as being from the Lord, know the Word so you can judge the voice as true or false.

I don't think you answered my question. Please allow me to ask again: Do you think true Christians are immune to lies? Or do you think you yourself are susceptible to being deceived, and so you must remain diligent to discover deception whenever it tries to infect your thoughts?

 

[Spockrates]

Yes,but it won't make any sense to an unregenerate mind or like 8 bit processor won't process 64 bit software.
I once had a revelation that everything is a different manifestation of the same thing.
I received this information 20 years before I was able to process it.
The information "hit me" in a way that I could not ignore it,connections started forming and I started noticing how this was like that and that was like this.


Yes,well at least as well as an 8 bit can process.
I think over the last 20 years God has showed me how build 64 bit virtual environment to run his programs but they run real sl-o-w-w-w and I get hangups and crashes.
What I think is that we always had a 64 bit but the malware still has channels locked down.

I rarely get answers about questions when I seek them,I usually get a question that shows me my original
question was based on a total misunderstanding of the nature of reality.When I received the revelation that
"everything is a different manifestation of the same thing",I was asking why I was losing battles that I would have
easily won before I started being serious about obedience (In other words I was whining).

Now if you asked me how everything can be a different manifestation of the same thing I could show you the path of discovery it took 20 years for me to process.
So I feel many times we receive a revelation and we simply disregard it because it does not make sense and that gives the enemy a chance to meet you at the crossroads disguised as a guide but is ready to harness your energy to help him carve the path to nowhere that he is convinced is going to be a back door to the throne

It seems you didn't answer my question. Let me ask again:

I think that although God is completely capable of speaking directly to your thoughts or mine, he also does choose to use others to speak his mind to us. But since we rely on those God chose to be our teachers, we run the risk of being taught by teachers who are deceivers, though for no fault of their own. For they themselves are deceived. Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception?

 

[B-A-C]

It seems you didn't answer my question. Let me ask again:

I think that although God is completely capable of speaking directly to your thoughts or mine, he also does choose to use others to speak his mind to us. But since we rely on those God chose to be our teachers, we run the risk of being taught by teachers who are deceivers, though for no fault of their own. For they themselves are deceived. Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception?

There comes a point when you simply know the voice of God through experience.
John 10:3-5; John 10:27-28; Now of course we usually don't hear an audible voice, but we know the things He would say.
If for 20 years God convicts you of alcohol and pornography, and then someone comes along with "a new revelation from God"
and says God told them to tell you looking at pornography is OK now.

Which voice are you going to listen to?
The bigger problem is when they start listening to the wrong voice at the beginning of their walk. If the voice always told them
looking at pornography is OK, well... that's the voice they listen to, because that's the voice they recognize. Unfortunately a good many
preachers, teachers, and churches have been listening to the wrong voice for so long, they no longer know the right voice.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I think that although God is completely capable of speaking directly to your thoughts or mine, he also does choose to use others to speak his mind to us. But since we rely on those God chose to be our teachers, we run the risk of being taught by teachers who are deceivers, though for no fault of their own. For they themselves are deceived. Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception?

Are you kidding?
Have you been reading my posts?
I spend my time exploring mines and rabbit holes.
I live under layer after layer of deception and if someone claimed he was not I would not answer him
or ask him questions because I would know he is more deceived than I am.
Do you know what is involved in God getting 1k of data to our perception.
It's a logistical nightmare.
However now that I know that the only reality is eternal and everything done in the
temporary is temporary and all is illusion or vanity I am simply working toward a better illusion.

I am determined to be teachable but not by those who's answers have not considered how their position would
answer all scripture with no contradictions.
I believe I have worked out many contradictions by following a simple formula.
But it's only a fraction of what I can see and there are probably more that I don't know enough to see.
A miner might have to live off silver until he can reach the Gold.
But I only want gold so I can buy equipment to search for diamonds.
I want revelation rather than formulas,but until revelation comes I have to do temporary things to navigate a temporary world.
How would I know what version of the illusion you are running?

Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception?
I'm not even gonna nibble....
Ok
Is that the question version of the statement"everything I say is a lie"?
Because everything I say is a lie,let every man be a liar but let God be true.
I'm not smart enough to answer that question because that actually might be the one thing you are not deceived about.
But then if you...ahhh..reboot...scan drive for errors.and don't go back to that domain..

 

[Dovegiven]

I don't think you answered my question. Please allow me to ask again: Do you think true Christians are immune to lies? Or do you think you yourself are susceptible to being deceived, and so you must remain diligent to discover deception whenever it tries to infect your thoughts?

Christians are immune to lies IF having an ear for the voice of Christ, and heeding it.
We're using computer analogies, so that will do, our mind being the hard drive. We want to populate the renewed mind with apps and data. There is no need for a Christian to do a clean wipe, as we will manage input/output with help from the Holy Spirit. That way we can keep good memory, but inherit old memory, and some less than desired "other" data much like a virus or trojan.

We populate the drive with uploads from DVD's, the Cloud, and previous downloaded files, and maybe files from a memory stick. All are possibly adulterated with bad data, reinfecting the new drive (mind). Those are inherent dangers of uploading data.
Once populated with what we are familiar with, then comes new downloads.

There are "trusted" sources, and otherwise. God prefers we only download his trusted sources. Actual Bible versions are probably high on his Suggested list. Maybe that stack of 11 commentaries and denominational apps are way down that list. So might be all those blog sites full of personal opinions. Some of what I treasured for years is gone by choice according to his voice.

Next, we see that by importing our internet Favorites, we are once again confronted with some links to evil, and innocent looking "fun" sites. I have apparently finally eliminated a very pesky Disney vacation trojan pop-up that came from my grand-daughters installing games.

I was faced with a huge task of reshaping choices for this new laptop. It's right now "clean", ready for inspection by Jesus. I don't have an automatic immunity to evil, but I do have help from God to filter out evil, replacing evil with good. Once again I retain the capability of choice between "evil" and "good" data in this new (renewed) "mind" conforming to that of Christ.

The imbedded Word of God is my antivirus.anti-trojan app. Instead of totally relying only on an uploaded app, I filter everything manually too. By faith I believe deception is far from me, judged by the Word and his voice, which always shakes hands with his word.

 

[Spockrates]

There comes a point when you simply know the voice of God through experience.
John 10:3-5; John 10:27-28; Now of course we usually don't hear an audible voice, but we know the things He would say.
If for 20 years God convicts you of alcohol and pornography, and then someone comes along with "a new revelation from God"
and says God told them to tell you looking at pornography is OK now.

Which voice are you going to listen to?
The bigger problem is when they start listening to the wrong voice at the beginning of their walk. If the voice always told them
looking at pornography is OK, well... that's the voice they listen to, because that's the voice they recognize. Unfortunately a good many
preachers, teachers, and churches have been listening to the wrong voice for so long, they no longer know the right voice.

Yes, I agree, and thanks for replying to my post. Some things are crystal clear in scripture--the prohibition against pornography being one.

But I'm asking about interpreting scripture, where a biblical passage is only clear as mud. Consider this passage:

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
(Mark 16)​

When I became born again, I hung out with fundamentalist baptists. When I asked them about this passage, they said the Pentecostal practice of speaking in tongues is a deception of the devil, and this passage is speaking of speaking another known language, like Latin or Hebrew.

So what do you say? Is speaking in tongues satanic? If not, then did these fundamentalists fail to hear Jesus' voice?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I missed post 109

How so?

To clarify I no longer have an issue with fitting that event into the context of the original prophecy of Joel
Because I have a better understanding of the The ancient Hebrew mindset concerning time and the timelessness of the prophecy.

I guess there is much we haven't considered. But what is this something, something you'd like to consider now?

I have an answer but it's complex
In court.a good lawyer never asks a question he does not already know the answer to.
I would like you to error check my logic paths to see if I am able to articulate what I see.
I don't use Greek logic though so I would need to define my path mapping logic.
I try to use more of the ancient Hebrew mindset about assigning names by observing what
things do rather than how things appear.
Things have attributes,follow patterns and there are cycles to those patterns.

Example:
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
The waters referred to here could not be what we know.
When you add water to water you get more water not waters.
So waters refers to something we don't understand with the natural mind.

Now rather than try to speculate what waters mean I read the rest of the book and see if this unknown thing
shows up again and then maybe we can glean a bit more information.
Turns out it does and it has other manifestations(springs rivers lakes) or variations and can be mixed with
other elements like salt creating an appearance of a new thing but it is the same thing.

There are attributes of the water we know like it comes in three manifestations(solid liquid vapor)
depending on how much energy is added or released.
I feel confident in assuming that the original water has those same attributes because of
scripture like Ecc.3-15.

Ecclesiastes 3:15 What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again.
I feel the new living translation is more understandable than most.
KJV
That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
KJV is accurate but it did not mean anything to me.

Ok so I see patterns being used over and over in cycles that can themselves form patterns that go in larger cycles.
It's not complicated at all but because of the levels and interactions and possibilities of variation it gets extremely complex.

Just like dc electricity is not complicated to understand but when you throw in frequency of appearance it becomes more complex and when we alternate the current into a single phase ac system that simple formula goes up and down and back and forth it adds a layer of complexity.Then there is 3 phase and thats complex but not complicated because it is the same simple formula with added patterns and cycles and now phases.
So if scripture is complex instead of complicated it can be broken down to the main formula that drives everything else.

In post 117 I touched on some of this and I have been pointing out key words in my posts and I have left a trail of breadcrumbs
to try to describe what I see without upsetting anyone's beliefs.
My communication skills are rough at best.I'm a generator technician by trade and
I speak and write in what I call a sort of industrial dialect of English.
I know my sentence structure is terrible and my punctuation is always wrong
but that comes from how I store information of paths taken, problems encountered, service
performed in service orders which is most of the writing I do except for this forum.
I used to write articles for an Rv magazine about generators and solar,wind,inverters and batteries.
But my wife always rewrote them for me and boy would she get frustrated.

So if you have read my posts and think it's possible I might end up making sense at some point then please be a midwife to these ideas.

 

[Spockrates]

Christians are immune to lies IF having an ear for the voice of Christ, and heeding it.

Would you say, then God finds fault with the disobedient (and I agree the only holy God certainly has every right to disapprove of them!) and so he withholds wisdom from them?

The imbedded Word of God is my antivirus.anti-trojan app. Instead of totally relying only on an uploaded app, I filter everything manually too. By faith I believe deception is far from me, judged by the Word and his voice, which always shakes hands with his word.

Please share with me just one passage of scripture you are sure clearly teaches you are now immune to deception.

 

[Spockrates]

Are you kidding?
Have you been reading my posts?

Do you think the proverb true that a picture is worth a thousand words?

I spend my time exploring mines and rabbit holes.
I live under layer after layer of deception and if someone claimed he was not I would not answer him
or ask him questions because I would know he is more deceived than I am.
Do you know what is involved in God getting 1k of data to our perception.
It's a logistical nightmare.
However now that I know that the only reality is eternal and everything done in the
temporary is temporary and all is illusion or vanity I am simply working toward a better illusion.

I am determined to be teachable but not by those who's answers have not considered how their position would
answer all scripture with no contradictions.
I believe I have worked out many contradictions by following a simple formula.
But it's only a fraction of what I can see and there are probably more that I don't know enough to see.
A miner might have to live off silver until he can reach the Gold.
But I only want gold so I can buy equipment to search for diamonds.
I want revelation rather than formulas,but until revelation comes I have to do temporary things to navigate a temporary world.
How would I know what version of the illusion you are running?

Do you think I'm deceived in this idea about deception?
I'm not even gonna nibble....
Ok
Is that the question version of the statement"everything I say is a lie"?
Because everything I say is a lie,let every man be a liar but let God be true.
I'm not smart enough to answer that question because that actually might be the one thing you are not deceived about.
But then if you...ahhh..reboot...scan drive for errors.and don't go back to that domain..

My apologies. I did not intend to offend.

 

[Spockrates]

Would you say, then God finds fault with the disobedient (and I agree the only holy God certainly has every right to disapprove of them!) and so he withholds wisdom from them?

Please share with me just one passage of scripture you are sure clearly teaches you are now immune to deception.

Dovegiven. I'm not saying I doubt there is such a passage. I'm saying please don't feel obligated to spent time providing many. Choosing one for me to consider for now will do.

Also I very much want to know if I'm understanding you correctly and you believe God withholds wisdom from the disobedient.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

My apologies. I did not intend to offend.

I was kidding and kind of jokingly insinuating that your powers of observation/retention might be a little slow.
I'm still working on that sense of humour thing.

I don't want my posts to sound authoritative but show my self correction and logic path process.

You have now made me sorry for my response so I apologize to you for perhaps insinuating
you either didn't read or comprehend my posts.
I now see there are other possible reasons that I have not yet considered why you would
ask that question in the way that you did.
Maybe you just wanted an official answer.
As far as I know it is still possible for me to be decieved.
As far as I know it is still possible for you to be deceived,but I may be deceived about that.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Do you think the proverb true that a picture is worth a thousand words?

It certainly has merit although It is obviously a western proverb because it pre-assumes a certain ratio.
So if I say yes and we find a picture that speaks only 99 words I suppose I would have to reject it.
The information my visual cortex processes in probably way more than a 1000 words worth.

rephrased:
Do you think the proverb true that a picture can be worth a thousand words?
Yes

 

[Spockrates]

I was kidding and kind of jokingly insinuating that your powers of observation/retention might be a little slow.
I'm still working on that sense of humour thing.

I don't want my posts to sound authoritative but show my self correction and logic path process.

You have now made me sorry for my response so I apologize to you for perhaps insinuating
you either didn't read or comprehend my posts.
I now see there are other possible reasons that I have not yet considered why you would
ask that question in the way that you did.
Maybe you just wanted an official answer.
As far as I know it is still possible for me to be decieved.
As far as I know it is still possible for you to be deceived,but I may be deceived about that.

I'm not offended. Was just concerned I might have offended. All is good!

 

[Spockrates]

It certainly has merit although It is obviously a western proverb because it pre-assumes a certain ratio.
So if I say yes and we find a picture that speaks only 99 words I suppose I would have to reject it.
The information my visual cortex processes in probably way more than a 1000 words worth.

rephrased:
Do you think the proverb true that a picture can be worth a thousand words?
Yes

I was just going to say written words are like a painting. They seem real enough to be able to communicate what's on their mind. But if you have trouble understanding them and ask them for an explanation, they just say to you the same thing, all over again.

So I'm glad to have conversations like these with people who are willing to explain what they've written. And I hope you don't mind when I do ask.

But when I think of passages of the Bible that are difficult for me to understand, I wonder how to glean their true meaning. I can't ask the authors like Paul, because they are no longer with us. I do ask God, and sometimes I'm reminded of a another biblical passage that helps me comprehend the one about which I wonder, sometimes I'm not. When I'm not, I ask others like yourself and BAC and Travis and Dovegiven.

That's why I find it odd when sometimes the people I ask tell me I'm not born again. For if I was, they say, I wouldn't have to ask. I'm in awe of such faith in these spiritual giants. Perhaps it's a sin, but I envy them their certainty in the wisdom God has given them! Yet I wonder how it can be true and whether they are deceived in their faith in the impossibility of their being susceptible to deception. So I ask them questions to see if their wisdom truly is as perfect--albiet not as infinite--as God's.

It seems to me that people like you and me are less likely to be deceived, since we admit such a possibility. But we also run the risk of doubting to the point of not believing anything. We should not be, as Paul cautioned:

...always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
(2 Timothy 3:8)​

So I'd like us to return to the question of the opening post: Are we saved from hell through faith alone, or through faith and something more? What do you think Paul meant to say to us?

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
(Ephesians 2)​

 

[Spockrates]

All:

Thanks for helping me think this through. I appreciate the time everyone took to answer my questions. I'm thinking the truth is that Paul was giving only part of the truth of how to be saved in Ephesians 2. For it seems we are saved not through faith alone, but also through repentance. Thanks again and God bless.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

@Thiscrosshurts

I see it the other way,We were totally dominated by spyware, adware and other malware causing redirects to spoofed websites where more malware is added.

I understand your approach here but must object to this point, at least in part, brother.
Certainly the junk stuff is constantly active against us but surely we can claim the victory and freedom and liberty from the power through Christ?

Do you possibly mean here the Flesh?

Computer to human analogy
Computer hardware= flesh
OS=soul
Programs=spirits
The mind would be the computer operator

Does that seem feasible?

If you understand the OS to be the two biggest out there then that makes me question this. Are you generalising or can I suggest that other OS's which are open source and even some earlier ones that others have built on are quite different from the OS you had in mind?
Either way, brother, I find it hard to get my head into this, not because I can't but because it seems to limit too much the reality of it all and is missing something I can't as yet put my finger on (the mouse maybe?!!)
One thing that may be worth noting is that in the computer world and internet, there are many daemons and these are preloaded on OS and are part of the safe and smooth running of some programs, which ,makes me sit back and think about it all, how about you?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Are you saying the idea that repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin is something you have a feeling you should not discuss, though you don't know why? Or are you saying you do know why you don't like the idea, but you'd rather not say?

I'm asking not to pry, but because if the idea is a lie, I'd like to know why. I do my best not to be deceived

I'd say Jesus agrees: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Yes, but perhaps we touched on one exception--repenting of one's unbelief? This is not so evident in people like myself who cannot remember a time when I did not believe that God is and Jesus is the Son of God. But there are people who once were atheists, yet repented of that unbelief.

Even the Apostle Paul had another kind of repentance when he had a vision on the road to Damascus during his crusade to hunt down and kill Christians, there. I'm sure you are familiar with the account in Acts. He repented of his unbelief in who Christ was after hearing Jesus say, "Paul, why do you persecute me?"

When I think as logically as I'm able about this, it seems to me impossible to continue in a state of such unbelief, yet at the same time, believe! If faith is the antithesis of unbelief, then such repentance prior to faith is not only an option, it's a requirement.

But this is only true if repentance truly is only a change of mind. If repentance is a change of behavior, then I see no reason to say it is a requirement for faith

I find that not a few have a real fear of the pain answering my questions gives them. Some even become hostile when they find that some of their reasons why they believe are not living truths but stillborn lies. They'd rather bite me then let go of the lie they labored so hard to deliver!

But learning that a reason why one believes is not true in no way means what one believes is untrue. It simply means the believer must give birth to a better reason for why to believe that truth.

But what is better? To refuse to let go of a bad reason why to believe or to bring into one's world a good reason why to believe? My thought is that the former leads to doubt, but the latter will increase one's faith. Perhaps Paul would agree?

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
(Philippians 4:8)
What do you think?

It appears the present thought pattern has evolved from tradition rather than given birth (or born again/transformed through revelation and the word of knowledge. Much missed and much unconfidence, usually supported by aggressive defence due to pride. A nasty foe that will take any man down.

There is widespread damage through following blindly and through not being fully persuaded.
Would you be interested in re-thinking or getting revelation on faith, repentance and belief (amongst other gems) that may well help or help well?

It is refreshing to see honesty and honest questions being both/either confessed or simply asked and engaged in.

Bless you ....><>