You got enough scriptures quoted to reach the moon, that dont actually say what you're stringing together, and refusing to acknowledge it
You can do nothing, BUT
- Thread starter Dave M
- Start date
Thats a good start for those who are going to continue to keep their hand on the plow and not look back like lots wife.
KingJ
Loyal
Man you have a reading disability. Jer 17:9-11 asks the question ''who can judge the heart''...it then answers ''God can''....
God judges your heart and mind.
And yes, after judgement He does give you faith. Rev 3:20 ''behold I stand at the door and knock''....guess how He knows when you open????
James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you, it then explains HOW you draw near to God, your REPENT. Do you think God will not draw near to you if He sees fake repentance?
1 Cor 12:3 says nobody can call Jesus Lord UNLESSS it is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. Can you guess who He chooses to reveal it to???
Man, you truly have a reading disability and a comprehension block.
You read but don't grasp what you read. Psalm 51:17 says GOD WILL NOT DESPISE true repentance. James 1:27 says RELIGION UNDEFILED. Rom 10:9 says if you have faith to call Jesus Lord and believe He was raised from the dead you will be saved and 1 Cor 12:3 and Matt 16:16-17 says THAT ONLY FROM ABOVE CAN WE RECEIVE THAT FAITH.
KingJ
Loyal
Do you know what disgusts me the most about Calvinists? You teach and believe that God is monstrously evil ....and yet you still serve Him.
Imagine that.
You can count yourself very fortunate that you never meet me in a live debate. Shout if you want one. I can share a site. We will see how your opinion and comprehension block holds up when there are a couple of moderators vetting every reply.
Imagine that.
You can count yourself very fortunate that you never meet me in a live debate. Shout if you want one. I can share a site. We will see how your opinion and comprehension block holds up when there are a couple of moderators vetting every reply.
KingJ
Loyal
You type an unscriptural line as a rebuttal..... are you planning on writing your own bible?
You say Jer 17:9-11 is not evidence of God judging when it literally says He judges the heart and mind at a level humans can't.....
I feel like I am discussing with someone who is not all there. Is there something I need to know about you?
Yes thats the part you made up
lets try this again.
even your quote of rom12:3 is suspect because i don't think Paul intended that verse to be taken out of context.
but what he does say is "as God has apportioned to each person a measure of faith."
every person? or is it each person? Each being.. a subset.
i tend to think he meant every person. As others say "God has set eternity on every man's heart" - so it would make sense to say every man is apportioned a measure of faith to believe God will/can deliver them from evil.
God is looking for a response according to that measure of faith that he gave everyone. -which is just the parable of the sower again.
some fell on good soil, others rocky, thorny, etc.
only 1/4th of the soil was good and it produced a crop of double digit returns.
KingJ
Loyal
Well you are a Calvinist you believe there is no criteria to being gifted faith.
Jeremiah 17:10 explicitly says that God searches the heart, tries the reins and gives every man according to his ways and the fruit of his doings.
Romans 2:6–11 says God renders to every person according to their deeds and shows no partiality.
1 Samuel 16:7 says that man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.
Proverbs 21:2 says that the Lord weighs the hearts.
Hebrews 4:13 tells us that nothing is hidden from God's sight.
So what exactly have I made up?
My argument is that God alone knows the sincerity of a person's heart, their repentance, their response to His truth and their willingness to seek Him.
Jesus Himself said in Luke 5:32 that He came to call sinners to repentance.
Psalm 51:17 tells us that God does not despise a broken and contrite heart.
Hebrews 11:6 tells us that God rewards those who diligently seek Him.
James 1:27 describes pure religion through practical expressions of genuine devotion, and Revelation 2:10 speaks of being faithful unto death.
Furthermore, Scripture teaches that God enables and gives faith.
Matthew 16:17 says that Peter's understanding of Christ was revealed to him by the Father.
1 Corinthians 12:3 says that no one can confess Jesus as Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 12:3 speaks of God dealing to every person a measure of faith.
Romans 10:9 explains the saving confession of believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confessing Him as Lord.
John 6:45 says that those who hear and learn from the Father come to Christ.
Acts 16:14 even describes the Lord opening Lydia's heart to respond to the Gospel.
I am not suggesting that human works earn salvation, or that anyone can save themselves. Salvation is by God's grace through Jesus Christ.
I am saying that Scripture presents God as examining the heart, calling people to repentance, recognising their response, and enabling faith.
You seem to be objecting to the very idea that God examines and judges the individual, but Romans 2:6–11, Jeremiah 17:10 and Revelation 2:23 make that difficult to deny.
So rather than simply saying I made it up, please explain how you reconcile your objection with these passages.
KingJ
Loyal
Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself to you. At times you appear to be smart and then other times literally 1 IQ.
Please read this carefully and allow it to properly digest before responding.
Saving faith, the only faith that carries weight with God, is described in Romans 10:9:
Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Being able to confess Jesus is Lord is gifted to us by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 (KJV): Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
This is only gifted to us if we let Jesus in and draw close to Him.
Revelation 3:20 (KJV): Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
We let Jesus in by responding to His call and being found genuine when He examines our hearts. Scripture speaks of this in connection with:
1. Repentance
Psalm 51:17 (KJV): The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Luke 5:32 (KJV): I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
2. Servitude
James 1:27 (KJV): Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
3. Martyrdom and faithfulness
Revelation 2:10 (KJV): Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
And who is capable of examining the heart and judging its sincerity?
Jeremiah 17:9–10 (KJV): The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Yes you string some things together to provide an explanation that God did not give us.
No man cometh to me except that the father draw him!
And it appears from the rest of the text the father is drawing all men onto himself..i am sure you know that scripture.
Why you need to invent this concept of God only gives faith to those who pass his arbitrary judgement?
An interesting way of looking at the issue, well grounded in scripture, i do not disagree with any of the points you raise, but there are so many interpretations and judgements as to what constitutes sin, and thus our repentance of it and what constitutes "Martyrdom", of our lives being a living sacrifice to the God we profess to follow, that leaves the whole subject open to so many variables as to make any human judgement of our own salvation impossible..
My main contention is that none of us can know when we have passed Gods judgement of our heart and mind, for that judgement is Gods prerogative alone, but that we must try our best to follow Christs teachings and commandments and live in hope and faith that our lives will indeed be judged worthy to receive Gods, grace, Mercy and Forgiveness and the "gift" of Salvation.
As for Romans 10:9 being an arbiter as to whether or not Christ is "pulling the cart", alls i would say is that i have met many "Christians" that profess Christ with their mouths and appear to believe fervently in the fact he was raised from the dead, but whose actions and lifestyles seem so far removed from Christs teaching, i guess the phrase "believe in thine heart" is the one that throws the whole issue into Gods hands, for the judgement as to the validity of that "belief" and the nature of our lives that flow from it will determine our Salvation or otherwise and is Gods alone.
TexasDebs
Member
Amen!
I do not post to "hurt" anyone, but am simply trying to come to an understanding of what it means to be a Christian, to be a follower of Christ, in this Evil and corrupt world. Alls i would say on this issue is that in my many years of discussing this topic i have encountered so much complacency, so many Christians who have seemingly fallen into the "Just believe and you will be saved" camp, without ever questioning just what true "belief" entails. Yes it can be a hard realisation that our Salvation cannot be taken for granted, that our lives must be a constant "Hunger and thirsting for Righteousness", but if we believe that Christ meant the words, "Deny yourself, take up your Cross and follow me,.... for whoever shall lose his life in my service will gain it", then there really is no other way but to accept that we must try with all our being, knowing that we shall fail", to follow Christs teachings and commandments and build our lives of faith on the solid rock of his Truth alone.
Thats so true, but what does "faith" entail , thats the question at the heart of the issue, and i feel constantly "tested", perhaps by God, definitely by my own wretched , sinful nature, but its only through that constant "testing" that we come to the truth. Never rest content, always question why, always push yourself to do more to be the follower Christ requires, not through any hope of Salvation, for NONE of us are worthy of that "gift", but because of Love, Love of our Lord and Saviour, and Love of our fellow man and Gods Creation.
I still cant see any evidence they lied, if you read on from Matthew 7:21-23 to Matthew 7 24-27 you will see the reason as being that they didnt "hear or do Christs teachings", so why do you believe they lied?.
But the question is, what does it mean to "abide in Jesus", and how much "fruit" must we bear?, i think ALL Christians believe they abide in Jesus, but evidently many dont, Matthew 7:21-23, and God alone knows just how much Fruit will be required from us, "Unto whom much is given much will be expected", Luke 12:48.
We ALL bear "Bad Fruit", for thats the nature of our wretched and sinful lives, the question is how much good fruit must we bear , and god alone knows the answer to that question and his Judgement will be just and eternal.