Are Gentiles under Jewish Law?

[Boanerges]

I would seriously question any 'head of the church'.

Jesus is the CEO of the Church and no one else.

Awesome!

I have known a few Adventists. If you are born again I call you brother no matter the denomination. They (the Adventists I have known) all seem like fine believers and are almost Southern Baptist in doctrine but they do not eat pork, that and a few other variables. My though, if you think it's wrong do not eat it- eating or not eating will not disqualify you form God's family so follow your conscience before God.

 

[David777]

Wow brakelite.

Thanks for the affirmations and denials of the SDA.

Now we are making headway, I have more information
to work with.

This will take time to read and understand precisely
how the SDA understands the Scripture, especially
the reconciliation of mankind to God.

Your reply regarding Ellens prophecy, her vision of the temple
in the holy city.

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I am not sure about this but Ellen was referring to the
temple in the holy city, not the temple in heaven. As there is a
temple in heaven but not a temple on the holy city, the new Jerusalem.

It may seem like a minor point must I must insist on accuracy
in prophecy, these are the very words of God.

 

[David777]

Hello Boanerges.

Hey I wish it was that simple, I do not recommend
you explore SDA theology. Should you be as foolish as
I am, I promise you that your viewpoint may shift.

It is when you delve deeper into what institutions
actually believe that discoveries are made.

Always highly regard your posts Boanerges.

 

[Barny]

I had been meaning to ask about how they define obedience
to the sabbath. Particularly relating to the non lighting of fires
on the sabbath.

I had consulted a Jewish source to see how they managed this aspect
of the sabbath law. There answer was no fire, no matches, no ignition
of any form including cars, lights, and electronic equipment.

A pure day of rest and assembly for the nation of Israel.

Highly interested in how the legalistic crew manage the commandment.

I do not think brakelite can respond today as it is the sabbath.

Hi David,

The lighting of fires was a point I had heard others raise to SDAs as it was forbidden in OT law, just as your Jewish source described.

I've always found SDAs are unable to answer for their disobedience to the law whilst telling non-SDAs they are lost because of disobedience to the law.

 

[Boanerges]

Hey I wish it was that simple, I do not recommend
you explore SDA theology. Should you be as foolish as
I am, I promise you that your viewpoint may shift.

It is when you delve deeper into what institutions
actually believe that discoveries are made.

Always highly regard your posts Boanerges.

Thanks David. I am sure what you say may be true but I tend to look past the workings of the religious institutions and view the hearts of those I encounter. This is why my experience in this matter is so limited and yet I have found God in the strangest places. Sometimes He is their fishing people out, sometimes using them to spread truth.

 

[Barny]

Thanks David. I am sure what you say may be true but I tend to look past the workings of the religious institutions and view the hearts of those I encounter. This is why my experience in this matter is so limited and yet I have found God in the strangest places. Sometimes He is their fishing people out, sometimes using them to spread truth.

Hi Boanerges,

Good point.

SDAs for example are quite a mixed bunch. Some are very legalistic, teaching that disobedience to the law means your lost. These legalistic SDAs seem to be oblivious to the fact that their own disobedience to the law is no different to that of non-SDAs.
Other SDAs however work some Sabbaths (quietly) and eat meat (whilst the legalistic SDAs are not looking). This latter group usually don't tell non-SDAs that they are lost for disobedience to the law. In fact they seem like Christians you would typically find in most any other churches.

I have no doubt that some SDAs will be fished out of that religion by God, as you say.

But, scripture does warn us to "beware of the leaven", meaning false doctrines of works (Matt 16:11,12).

Gal 5:7-12 "You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? <sup class="versenum"> </sup>This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. <sup class="versenum"> </sup>A little leaven leavens the whole lump".

Scriptures offer many warnings against error doctrines (leaven) of works of the law.

SDAs unfortunately mix grace and works, which cannot be.
Rom 11:6. "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work."

Beware of the leaven (error doctrines of works) that can be found in churches like SDAs.

 

[brakelite]

Thanks for the affirmations and denials of the SDA.

Now we are making headway, I have more information
to work with.

This will take time to read and understand precisely
how the SDA understands the Scripture, especially
the reconciliation of mankind to God.

Your reply regarding Ellens prophecy, her vision of the temple
in the holy city.

Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I am not sure about this but Ellen was referring to the
temple in the holy city, not the temple in heaven. As there is a
temple in heaven but not a temple on the holy city, the new Jerusalem.

It may seem like a minor point must I must insist on accuracy
in prophecy, these are the very words of God.

To understand this one must understand the nature of the millenium. Adventists believe, along with many others, that the millenium is a 1000 year period where the saints join with their Lord in heaven, in the holy city, to take part in the judgement process of the wicked and the fallen angels.It is in the city where the throne of God is...John tells us as much when he describes the river flowing from it in the midst of that city. In the OT the temple was a copy of the temple in heaven, the mercy seat upon the ark was a representative of the throne of God. Also, Hebrews informs us that Jesus is in the temple right now intercessing on our behalf and acting as our Mediator. And in Revelation 14 we read how God's judgments and the final plagues are dispatched from the temple. The temple in heaven is trhe centre of activity, and the headquarters and source of everything that proceeds from God and comes to us. It is where our prayers go, and from where the answers come. Hence no need of earthly mediators.
John the revelator tells us that when the city descends down to earth at the end of the 1000 years, the throne of God remains in it but there is no longer any temple. Because John sees the city as it descends without a temple, but retaining the throne, that doesn't mean that there was no temple in it previously.
I see no problem with this.

You said elsewhere:
I had consulted a Jewish source to see how they managed this aspect
of the sabbath law. There answer was no fire, no matches, no ignition
of any form including cars, lights, and electronic equipment.

It appears that because Adventists are legalistic because they simply want to obey God's commandments, in particular the fourth, (no charges of legalism levelled against those Christians who find murder and theft to be sinful) , they are however not legalistic enough it seems because they think that heating up a pot of beans and driving their cars to church is still in keeping with the spirit of the law.

And Barny added later:
SDAs work on the Sabbath, whether it be at their jobs (especially in SDA hospitals

So is it thought that to keep the Sabbath holy, Adventist nurses and doctors should abandon their patients to spend the day at home doing nothing. And in the dead of winter they should freeze to death because they refuse to turn a heater on or light a fire? It is precisely this type of legalistic thinking that Jesus rounded on when being accused by the Pharisees. You are behaving and reacting just like them. Yet you believe in Jesus. So you would lift a sheep out of a ditch, but not attend to a human patient on the Sabbath to alleviate suffering, not even cold. Interesting attitude.

 

[brakelite]

SDAs for example are quite a mixed bunch. Some are very legalistic, teaching that disobedience to the law means your lost.

Not just Adventists teach this. There are many on this forum who believe in the sanctity and holiness of God's commandments. Surely you are not suggesting that someone who repeatedly disobeys the 6th commandment, whether they believe in Jesus or not, is saved? The Bible says otherwise.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Who is Paul addressing here? Christians or non-believers???
Why condemn Adventists as being legalistic just because they believe the scriptures?

But, scripture does warn us to "beware of the leaven", meaning false doctrines of works (Matt 16:11, 12). Gal 5:7-12 "You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump". Scriptures offer many warnings against error doctrines (leaven) of works of the law. SDAs unfortunately mix grace and works, which cannot be. Rom 11:6. "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." Beware of the leaven (error doctrines of works) that can be found in churches like SDAs.

There is a great deal of presumption here. You are presuming (that because Adventists believe being obedient is important, so important that our eternal destiny is in jeopardy if we disobey, ) that Adventists rely on their obedience in order to be saved. That their obedience justifies them. You need to study a little more deeply into what we do believe and why. What we do, and don't do, and why.
That said, I am sure there are Adventists who do believe their obedience somehow justifies them before God. This is a mistake. I would also add that there are some like that possibly in every church on the planet.

 

[Barny]

Not just Adventists teach this. There are many on this forum who believe in the sanctity and holiness of God's commandments. Surely you are not suggesting that someone who repeatedly disobeys the 6th commandment, whether they believe in Jesus or not, is saved? The Bible says otherwise.

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Ga 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Who is Paul addressing here? Christians or non-believers???
Why condemn Adventists as being legalistic just because they believe the scriptures?

There is a great deal of presumption here. You are presuming (that because Adventists believe being obedient is important, so important that our eternal destiny is in jeopardy if we disobey, ) that Adventists rely on their obedience in order to be saved. That their obedience justifies them. You need to study a little more deeply into what we do believe and why. What we do, and don't do, and why.
That said, I am sure there are Adventists who do believe their obedience somehow justifies them before God. This is a mistake. I would also add that there are some like that possibly in every church on the planet.

Hi brakelite,

You seem to have missed my point regarding Sabbath observance and SDA legalism. As SDA beliefs can vary amongst it's individual members, I am curious about your belief. For example, many Christians never observe Saturday Sabbath throughout their lives. What do you believe about their position on salvation, considering their continual "disobedience" of this commandment? Do you have any scripture to support this belief?

I note your quote of 1Cor 6:9 and Gal 5:21.
How do you determine who the "unrighteous" are?
And considering that Christians are led by the Spirit, thus not under the law (Gal 5:18), how would a Christian turn back to works of the flesh?

Interestingly I was speaking to an SDA just yesterday who agreed that some SDAs are legalistic. He however, works some Sabbaths, drinks beer and eats meat. Another SDA I know even takes some recreational drugs on rare occasions.

 

[brakelite]

G'day Barny

Hi brakelite,

You seem to have missed my point regarding Sabbath observance and SDA legalism. As SDA beliefs can vary amongst it's individual members, I am curious about your belief. For example, many Christians never observe Saturday Sabbath throughout their lives. What do you believe about their position on salvation, considering their continual "disobedience" of this commandment? Do you have any scripture to support this belief?

Jesus had the following to say to the religious do-gooders and legalists of His day....:
[HIGH-LIGHT]Matt. 12:38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.[/HIGH-LIGHT]
My understanding of this passage, or at least one way of looking at it, is that Jesus is telling these hypocrites that we must live according to the light we have. If we are convicted to observe the Sabbath, if we read in the word of God that the commandments of God are sacrosanct and binding, to not do so is disobedience. If we are not convicted to do so,or we simply do not believe what the scriptures tell us, or we have placed ourselves deliberately in a position whereby conviction becomes near nigh impossible, (for example we don't honestly study the scriptures on the subject presuming we know everything...and this can apply to any topic...thus not having a heart toward truth) then our disobedience becomes our own responsibility. If however we are sincerely searching for truth and we are hungering and thirsting for righteousness then the onus is upon God Himself to reveal the truth to us. We are free. The promises of God are that He will fill us with His righteousness and His truth. We must examine ourselves as to whether we are standing before God with an open and honest heart. I judge no-one, but simply teach what the scriptures reveal.
(2Co 4:2; Eph 5:9; 2Thess. 2:10; Matt. 5:6.)
I do not teach Sabbath observance because I believe everyone should be living up to the light I have; I teach it because I believe obedience to all God's commandments are vital to an ongoing fruitful relationship with our Creator. I also stress that we are not to focus on obedience, but on our relationship. As we abide in Him the fruit of the Spirit becomes manifest and obedience is a natural result of that. Thus there is nothing legalist about obedience, it grows from our love of God and His love for us. It is a fulfilment of the whole purpose of the incarnation. To save us from our sins.

I note your quote of 1Cor 6:9 and Gal 5:21.
How do you determine who the "unrighteous" are?
And considering that Christians are led by the Spirit, thus not under the law (Gal 5:18), how would a Christian turn back to works of the flesh?

Jesus told us clearly that we are to judge people by their fruits. Judging them however need not be coupled with condemning them. Some are young in Christ and have certain issues that are yet to be dealt with. With such we are to show patience and understanding, for we were all there were we not? Had not the Galatians turned back to works of the flesh? Paul wasn't rounding on them for obeying God's commandments, he was rebuking them for getting circumcised, and believing their circumcision was necessary for their justification.
While we are on that topic, in light of what was going on at Galatia, please give your explanation for Acts 16:1-3.

Interestingly I was speaking to an SDA just yesterday who agreed that some SDAs are legalistic. He however, works some Sabbaths, drinks beer and eats meat. Another SDA I know even takes some recreational drugs on rare occasions.

Like I said. Some still have issues. Others are more liberally minded and believe what they are doing is acceptable. Before their own Lord they stand or fall. Like I said in the beginning. We must all live up to what light we have.
I am a dairy farmer. I work 7 days a week. The cows don't stop giving milk on Sabbath. Nor do they time their calving to suit my dya for going to church. Nor do they get sick only during the week, and again, they gotta be fed, watered, etc. Animals are a 24 hour responsibility and can get sick very quickly with fatal results if neglected. Even not milking them twice a day can result in mastitis, which can, if not treated immediately, result in the loss of that quarter of udder. Other than all that I in good conscience believe to be essential to the well being of the stock, I do not do haymaking etc or maintenance work on the Sabbath. I would that I had another line of work, but God brought me to this place as an answer to prayer; someone else's prayer that is. However, that said, I know some members of the church who do not go along with this, and look at me sideways. While others understand and give me no grief. The whole thing however was something I never approach lightly, and have agonised in prayer many times.
I also eat meat, though I prefer vegetarian food, for both the health benefits and the variety, and have greatly reduced my meat intake from when I was not an Adventist over 14 years ago. My wife at this time is not Christian.It would be patently unjust for me to demand a radical change in diet for us both, or to demand she makes allowances for two distinctly different diets. God calls us to to walk justly, to love mercy, and walk humbly. Love is the fulfilling of the law. She is learning however to cook vegetarian, and we are both learning to enjoy it more and more, and I am sure one day soon we will take that step. I do not take meat to the church potlucks lol.
The beer and drugs belong to a very distant past, and well may they remain there.

 

[brakelite]

Where did you get this idea from, I lean towards annihilation not eternal damnation brakelite.

My apologies for this misunderstanding, and my commendation for recognising this truth.

 

[Barny]

Hi brakelite,

You said:
"It appears that because Adventists are legalistic because they simply want to obey God's commandments, in particular the fourth, (no charges of legalism levelled against those Christians who find murder and theft to be sinful) , they are however not legalistic enough it seems because they think that heating up a pot of beans and driving their cars to church is still in keeping with the spirit of the law."

You also said:
"Surely you are not suggesting that someone who repeatedly disobeys the 6th commandment, whether they believe in Jesus or not, is saved? The Bible says otherwise."

I seek some further clarification of your position as your comments seem to be attributing differing levels of importance to each of the commandments.

If someone claims to be a Christian but continually kills people ( what of soldiers in battle though?), you claim they are unsaved.

But what of continual adultery? It's very common these days amongst Christians. Divorcing for any reason and then marrying another, even with the blessing of their church.
But, Mark 10:11,12
"So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Is continual neglect of the Sabbath or continual adultery any less an offence than killing?

Regarding Acts 16:1-3 I cannot comment at this stage as I don't have any understanding on this. But thanks for pointing it out though. I still have a much to learn from God's word.

You said: "Had not the Galatians turned back to works of the flesh? "

Yes, you are correct. The Galatians sought to be "made perfect by the flesh", Gal 3:3.
We see in Gal 2:18 the warning that if you go under the law you make yourself a transgressor (sinner, 1John3:4). To be under the law is to "frustrate the grace of God". For "if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" , Gal 2:21.

Rom 8:6-8
<SUP>"</SUP>For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."


Also, you said: "Adventists believe being obedient is important, so important that our eternal destiny is in jeopardy if we disobey,"

I agree Christians behavior often improves in our relationship with God. We love one another and love does no ill to his neighbour ( Rom 13:10).
But where does scripture say that bad behavior brings our salvation in jeopardy?
It's unbelief that determines this, not works of the law.

We both know Christians do still do wrong at times. And we see with Biblical examples such as King David's adultery/murder, that they do not profit by it. God disciplines them.

But it remains that belief in Jesus is what determines our salvation, righteousness, holiness, etc. Not works of the law.

Perhaps you could clarify your position by answering the questions above as I still remain unsure about your position on justification by works of the law.

 

[David777]

This is complex brakelite.

Brakelite you belong to the Seventh Day Adventists.

You believe the 10 commandments are still active.

Then you stated that you do work on the sabbath.

You did state that you follow the spirit of the law.

The spirit of the law, meaning not the strict legal obedience?

Your looking behind the law to the intent of the law giver (spirit).

What was the penalty for breaking the law, Exodus 31:15 ....death.

Which of the commands below do you not follow to the letter?

6 You shall not murder.

7 You shall not commit adultery.

8 You shall not steal.

9 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Please explain brakelite just how you obey the commandments
above by the spirit and not the letter.

 

[caprice09]

Spirit of the Law

Who is a murderer? 1 John2:8-11, Matt 5:22
Who takes the name of the Lord in vain? 1 John 2:1-6, Matt 7:21-23
Who is a liar and bears false witness? 1 John2:22, Rom15:18-19, John3:11
Who is an adulterer/adultress? 1 Tim 5:12, Rev 2:4-5
Who honors not the mother and father? Gal 4:21-31, Rom 4:1-25
Who honors not the sabbath? Matt 12:1-28, Luke 3:11-17

Indeed the law shall be proven true (for all the Word of God is as the promise whereby the LORD has sworn by Himself, because God cannot lie or contradict Himself!) but all things as they pertain to Christ, who is the Word of God! By the precept (which is the Spirit of the Law) "as you have judged so shall you be judged," the restitution required by the law is paid by the judgment of God Himself! In the end, who shall think to have an unresolved complaint? And who shall yet be called a sinner, after God has made the restitution required of the law (for can you still call the man a theif who has paid back the double? For your temporary loss has profitted you all the more, in Christ)?

Who has truly wronged me (that shall not be made good as surely as the LORD is faithful)?
What have I suffered that is not made good, and the account settled in the name of Christ (Phlm 1:17-19...who taught Paul that manner of ministry if not the Example of Christ?)?

 

[brakelite]

Brakelite you belong to the Seventh Day Adventists.

You believe the 10 commandments are still active.

Then you stated that you do work on the sabbath.

You did state that you follow the spirit of the law.

The spirit of the law, meaning not the strict legal obedience?

Your looking behind the law to the intent of the law giver (spirit).

What was the penalty for breaking the law, Exodus 31:15 ....death.

Which of the commands below do you not follow to the letter?

6 You shall not murder.

7 You shall not commit adultery.

8 You shall not steal.

9 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Please explain brakelite just how you obey the commandments
above by the spirit and not the letter.

Great question.And one I often ask those who claim to be keeping the spirit of the law by "resting in Christ" and ignoring the Sabbath completely. I have always believed that to keep the spirit of the law is to keep the letter also...they cannot be divided.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath for
a. Harvesting crops (Matt. 12:1)
b. Manual labour (John 5:9-16)
c. Medical practice (too many times to mention)

So David, was Jesus breaking the Sabbath?
Was Jesus keeping the Spirit of the law but not the letter? Or was He revealing to everyone what the letter really meant all along? Like in the question of adultery that Barny mentioned previously. Did the letter of the law include lust all along, or was lust an addition to the old commandment to make things harder?

By the same token, when God forbade the lighting of fires on the Sabbath, what was it that God was really telling the people. That in the dead of winter it was so important to God that they not work He would rather see them suffer with cold? Is God really that unmerciful? Or was something else going on there?

And when God says

Isaiah 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Was He truly telling His people that the Sabbath was such a burden that He was going to do away with it when the Messiah came? Incidentally, Isaiah 58 has traditionally been viewed as a prophetic piece for the NT church. Pity the NT church doesn't read it through to the end of the chapter.

 

[Barny]

Hi brakelite,

I assume your answer to my question is that you believe Christians who are in continual adultery and/or continual neglect of Sabbath, are unsaved. Is that correct?

You said:
"I have always believed that to keep the spirit of the law is to keep the letter also...they cannot be divided"
Also:
"Did the letter of the law include lust all along, or was lust an addition to the old commandment to make things harder?"

Who do you think is adding to the law to make it harder?

Matt 5:27,28 says:
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, "you shall not commit adultery"
But I say to you that whosoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart".

Was Jesus adding to the law to make it harder here?

You said:
"Adventists believe being obedient is important, so important that our eternal destiny is in jeopardy if we disobey"

Considering the differing views amongst SDAs as to what level of obedience to the commandments is required, as evidence of being in Christ, clearly there is much ambiguity on this most important issue of salvation. It appears the SDAs have complicated the gospel.

But, the criminal on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" is with Jesus in paradise, without any works of the law.
Luke 23:42,43
"Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom".
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise"
It is believing in Jesus that makes us righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10) and perfected (Heb 10:14). How can we add or take away from this based on whether we achieve the correct level of obedience to the law?

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

You asked a question,

Great question.And one I often ask those who claim to be keeping the spirit of the law by "resting in Christ" and ignoring the Sabbath completely. I have always believed that to keep the spirit of the law is to keep the letter also...they cannot be divided.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath for
a. Harvesting crops (Matt. 12:1)
b. Manual labour (John 5:9-16)
c. Medical practice (too many times to mention)

So David, was Jesus breaking the Sabbath?
Was Jesus keeping the Spirit of the law but not the letter? Or was He revealing to everyone what the letter really meant all along? Like in the question of adultery that Barny mentioned previously. Did the letter of the law include lust all along, or was lust an addition to the old commandment to make things harder?

By the same token, when God forbade the lighting of fires on the Sabbath, what was it that God was really telling the people. That in the dead of winter it was so important to God that they not work He would rather see them suffer with cold? Is God really that unmerciful? Or was something else going on there?

Jesus was Lord of the sabbath so I guess He does whatever He wishes brakelite.
Jesus was never under the law, He did all to fulfill all righteousness.
Jesus healed on the sabbath, mercy and kindness is not breaking the law it is the opposite.

Jesus amplified the law so that sin became utterly sinful. Whether in thought or action
the law could be broken. Jewish listeners had no choice but to accept the reconciliation of God.
Remember Jesus was sent to the Jews first, Jesus was their messiah. Jesus was Jewish,

The covenant between Israel and God included the ten commandments.
This I can prove from the scripture.

If the covenant was intended to include the Gentiles, I have no scripture to support this.
In fact, Paul says we were foreigners to the covenant. Proof that we did not belong to this covenant.

Make no mistake, Jesus increased the scope of the law as the previous example on lust illustrates.
The penalty for breach was death, as sin increased so God's Grace increased.
Ultimately Jesus arrives and fulfills the law absolutely, we the Gentiles are grafted in.
Grafted into what? What was it that we initially were not part of??

Into the reconciliation of God to His chosen people the Jews.

Paul was accused of promoting lawlessness by the Jews. Due to a gospel free from the law,
a gospel of liberty, a gospel defined by love.
A gospel initiated and totally fulfilled by God himself.

Here read the following;

Ephesians 2:8-9

New King James Version

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

For by the kindness of God we are saved through the gift of faith.

This does say "saved", not conditionally saved.

Also, works are not part of this salvation process, salvation it is a gift we accept.

I would like to ask you a question brakelite.

When you see "commandment" or the plural in the New Testament after the Gospels
how do you interpret the word brakelite?

 

[caprice09]

Not under law?

Jesus was not under the law? Gal 4:1-7
Being Lord of the Sabbath does not exclude Him from obedience; otherwise there is no sacrifice for sins. John 14, 15:09-17

The point of the sabbath is the ceasing of the works (of flesh) that the glory of God might be made manifest. Examplified in the "finished" works of the Father, and the "finished" works of the Son.

The Father's works were perfect because of His blessing upon Adam to be fruitful and multiply, granting him a son in his own likeness and image; therefore (as you have judged so shall you be judged) by the LORD's own grace does He receive a Son also (not by works, but by grace as it were). The Son being born a Jew by the similiar circumstances in which He blessed Abraham (to whom He said He would bless those that blessed him and cursed those that curse him). The Son's works were finished upon the cross because the resurrection of the dead was made inevitable by the grace in which Christ offered Himself (following this commandment of the Father, not by spoken Word as of the law, but by the example set forth which the Son is to follow after His likeness and image), and the faithfulness of the Father as Judge. That if sin must bear the penalty of death according to the law (an "eye for an eye"), the grace by which Christ gave the (eternal) life of Himself must come upon Himself again (being rewarded according to His own judgments).

If this be the precedant from Father to Son, what are the implications of our salvation by betrothal unto the Son and adoption unto the Father through that very sacrifice. For our salvation is by our atonement through the acceptance of God with us; and so are we not accepted by the same precept and spirit of the law (being judged and blessed of God according to our "own likeness")? For I am not saved by the law, written commandments etched in stone (the Will and testament as though of a dead God, that can do nor speak anymore, lest His works be proven less than perfect), but by the living Word of God (The living Will and Testament put in effect through the death of Christ, and empowered by His resurrection, whereby true fellowship with God can occur), composed of that same "breath" by which man is given life!

For the law was never intended that one may boast over one another according to their works and righteousness! For if this is the likeness of God, the epitome of righteousness, who can stand before the Almighty. But the example of both creation, and salvation (and by implication Judgment) is grace, love. Everything God ever did was for you; your benefit, your exaltation, your glory. That is why the LORD is to be glorified after the manner of His own "works" which is grace!

 

[David777]

Hello Caprice09.

I did not intend to foster the idea that Jesus was not under the law.

I should have written, Jesus humbled Himself and submitted Himself to the control of the law.
Jesus did this to FULFILL all righteousness.
To fulfill what the Jews could not fulfill.