Sanctification vs Justification

[brakelite]

Perhaps in your mind this is true, I cannot see "transgression" in the quotation from my post.

No, but I am sure you can well remember the following:
Ga 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Paul is not here speaking of the Ten Commandments. This is exclusively Moses law, that which was written in a book. It could not refer to the Law of God because it was added (that means it came after) because of sin. Sin is transgression against God's laws. For sin to exist, law must come first. (For without law is no knowledge of sin). Now sin existed from Adam to Moses, therefore there must have been law (See Romans 5:12-14)

The first law may in fact be given due to transgression, Adam disobeyed a command, transgression.

The first law must have existed before Adam....Jesus condemned Lucifer/Satan as a liar and a murderer from the 'beginning'. Satan's rebellion in heaven was a front on assault against God's government, His laws.

The introduction of a sabbath law by God just before Mt Sinai does not imply
that the other nine laws existed. You need to quote the scripture to support the other
nine.

Was God unjust for charging Cain with murder? Was Joseph a legalist because he refused to sleep with Potiphar's wife? Was Rachel innocent of theft of her father's gods? Were those destroyed in the flood not guilty of transgression against any law even though they were violent corrupt sinners? Where is the justice in God punishing them if they weren't aware that they were transgressing?

The book of law probably did not fit in the ark. Remember that the law of Moses would
have taken up considerable space. I will have to check the dimensions of the ark. Let us assume
that you are correct. If the tablets of stone are so important, why is the rod that budded more important
than the law of Moses? Also, this idea does not imply that the law system of Israel should be divided into
two sections.



If this is true then the law of Moses (my laws) must have existed before Moses wrote
the law?

Two different laws DHC. The law of Moses was only temporary, applying only until such time as the shadows were fulfilled. The Ten Commandments, God's laws, are permanent. One on paper (temporary) one on stone (permanent). Of course God's laws existed before Sinai. If they didn't then God can not justify the flood, nor Sodom and Gomorrah, nor many other incidents where man was destroyed or punished, or shown mercy, throughout his short history. Like I said, the Ten Commandments are a transcript of God's character. Did God's character only begin to be revealed at Sinai? Hardly.
Genesis 26:1 ¶ And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
2 And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

What evidence, a sabbath introduced a month or two prior to Mt Sinai, does
not amount to any substantial evidence at all brakelite. You must be kidding!
I pointed out that the people were not punished, no LAW as yet, obviously.

Since you suggested that punishment is evidence of an established law, I included above the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. However, punishment is not the only evidence for an established law. Mercy is also evidence don't you think? So when God (not Moses as you inferred) asked the question How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? it is clear that there were already commandments and laws in existence, and that the Sabbath was one of them. That God didn't punish isn't evidence of the non-existence of the law.

Exodus 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy....
....Exodus 34:5 ¶ And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

The absence of punishment is very feeble and narrow grounds as support for your criticism.

 

[Barny]

Matthew 5
20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees,
you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was imputed with the righteousness that surpasses that of the scribes and the Pharisees.

 

[james1523]

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was imputed with the righteousness that surpasses that of the scribes and the Pharisees.

And imputed under the Old Covenant too, because Christ had not yet died. Proving that imputed righteousness is how God has always justified people, in the Old Testament and in the New. Some think that imputed righteousness occurred only after Christ, this is not true,, otherwise Enoch, Abel, Noah etc, could not have been righteous by faith.

 

[james1523]

Two different laws DHC. The law of Moses was only temporary, applying only until such time as the shadows were fulfilled. The Ten Commandments, God's laws, are permanent. One on paper (temporary) one on stone (permanent). Of course God's laws existed before Sinai. If they didn't then God can not justify the flood, nor Sodom and Gomorrah, nor many other incidents where man was destroyed or punished, or shown mercy, throughout his short history. Like I said, the Ten Commandments are a transcript of God's character. Did God's character only begin to be revealed at Sinai? Hardly.

I'd like to point out that the 10 commandments written in stone were the Old Covenant:
Deuteronomy 4:13, "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."

God did not make this covenant with anyone before Moses. The 10 commandments written in stone were given at Mt Horeb and had not been given prior:
"Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive" (Deuteronomy 5:1-3)

Paul called this Old Covenant, the 10 commandments written on stone "ministry of death written in stone":
"But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?" (II Corinthians 3:3, 6-8)

The 10 commandments included the 4th about the Sabbath, this was specifically to the Israelites to commemorate being brought out of Egypt: "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

I think you are alluding to the fact that God's moral law existed before Moses and exists after Moses. This is true. And it is undeniable that the whole Law of Moses, not just the 10 commandments reflect the character and nature of God. Because the verse to love God and love one another is not part of the 10 , but from Deuteronomy. But we should make clear distinction between the 10 commandments written on stone delivered to Moses at Mt Horeb.. and God's moral law. One is written on stone, the other is not. How did God communicate His commandments to Abraham? It would have been via direct revelation in the many encounters Abraham had with God.

 

[papajim]

And imputed under the Old Covenant too, because Christ had not yet died. Proving that imputed righteousness is how God has always justified people, in the Old Testament and in the New. Some think that imputed righteousness occurred only after Christ, this is not true,, otherwise Enoch, Abel, Noah etc, could not have been righteous by faith.

Thats a very good point james, salvation has always worked the same way. God does not change, He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The prophets understood this, they look forward to the cross, we look back to the cross.

 

[papajim]

The reason for this question I continue to ask is because of the consequences for disobedience to the law that the likes of you subtly proclaim.
You speak of love, but, the underlying message is if we don't obey the law then we're condemned/lost.

Note a few quotes I have below from earlier posts.




Here we see that righteousness is determined/judged by works of the law, according to brakelite.
And whilst I acknowledge that you guys are not directly saying our righteousness is by works of the law, you are indirectly saying it is by the mere fact that you judge yourself as unrighteous unless you have physical evidence of it through works of the law.

Hence my continued questioning on how much evidence is needed to confirm that a Christian is righteous.
I know you have said perfect obedience to the law is required (see quote below). Therefore it's clear that you do not see yourself as righteous (and therefore saved) until you attain that perfect obedience as evidence of righteousness.

braklite and others here seem to be suggesting that God accepts a lessor level of obedience to the law. Hence again I have been asking how much obedience is required?

And in both these doctrines we see the same conclusion that Christians are allegedly not righteous until they have physical evidence of it by works of the law.

This contradicts scripture that says our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5



I had asked earlier, regarding your point that we should not limit God in working through us, if you have perfectly obeyed the law since receiving Christ and also do you have any physical ailments since receiving Christ?



Again, here we see you state that when you sin you are unrighteous. And this is judged by works of the law (just as the Pharisees judged).
And note your last sentence above. You don't see that you have the fullness of Christ, yet.

But scripture contradicts you, saying that:
Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We have been sanctified, Heb 10:10.
We're holy, Rom 11:16.
We're perfected, Heb 10:14.
We cannot sin, 1John 3:9
Col 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power




So here we see that "we are of the world" if we do not have perfect obedience to the law as evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness. Again this confirms that the doctrine you follow says that believers are not righteous until works of the law confirms it.
This is unbelief in Jesus. It denies that our faith is counted for righteousness.




We love one another in this imperfect physical world by showing the same love/grace that God showed us. Hence we love/forgive 7x70.

And we love by preaching the true gospel. Believe in Jesus.
And our works (believing in Jesus) shows our faith.
James 2:15-17
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

So in preaching the true gospel of grace we are, by love, feeding and clothing those who are spiritually destitute.
Remember Christ is our covering.
Christ is our spiritual food and drink,
1Cor 10:3-4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

But, if we are preaching a false gospel that mixes grace with works of the law, then this is not loving one another and is also opposing yourself too.


So believers continue to believe in Jesus and do not turn back to the law to determine righteousness.
Col 2:6-10
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: (we received Christ by faith and thus we continue to walk in him by faith)
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Beware the leaven/doctrine of works of the law, as a little leaven leavens the whole lump, Gal 5:9).

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Walk by faith, believing in Jesus.

Where did all of this come from Barny if it was not imparted to us.
Did not GOD put into our hearts to believe in Him? This is imparted to us.
Did not GOD impart love to us so that we can love one another, if He did not, where to that love come from, if not imparted.
Where did faith come from if not imparted?
Where did being born again come from if not imparted?
Every thing that you and I believe in is imparted to us from GOD, if not, how can we even believe in GOD?
So if GOD can impart these things to us why can't He impart righteousness to us as well? All good gifts come from GOD, He imparts them to us so that we can recieve them through faith which is also imparted to us.
GOD imparts life to us does He not? without GOD giving, their would be no recieving. Without GOD imparting life to us there would be no life.
Your last line said "walk by faith, believing in Jesus" Was this not also imparted to us?
If I believe in the imputed righteousness of Christ which is all the fullness of Christ, all the fullness of Christ is also imparted to me, for all is a gift from our GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord, not through my works, but through the gift of GOD working in me, through faith which is also a gift imparted to me.

 

[Barny]

Where did all of this come from Barny if it was not imparted to us.
.

Hi papajim,

I've shown quotes from you and brakelite that speak of your beliefs that we are not righteous without physical evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness. You don't even see that you have the fullness of Christ, yet.

But scripture differs on your claim.
Instead, God says:
Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We have been sanctified, Heb 10:10.
We're holy, Rom 11:16.
We're perfected, Heb 10:14.
We cannot sin, 1 John 3:9
Col 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

Christians believe in Jesus and thus are complete in him.

 

[papajim]

Hi papajim,

I've shown quotes from you and brakelite that speak of your beliefs that we are not righteous without physical evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness. You don't even see that you have the fullness of Christ, yet.

But scripture differs on your claim.
Instead, God says:
Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
We have been sanctified, Heb 10:10.
We're holy, Rom 11:16.
We're perfected, Heb 10:14.
We cannot sin, 1 John 3:9
Col 2:9-10
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.

Christians believe in Jesus and thus are complete in him.

I agree Barny, where did that belief come from? Who gave you that belief?
If we truly believe that we cannot sin, then we will not sin!

 

[papajim]

Hello Barny,
let me first say that my frustration is not with you, you have been a tremendous blesssing to me, the frustration lies within myself for not adequatly explaining my position in Christ.
Let's start with what you have been saying with the imputed righteousness of Christ. We are righteous, we have all the fullness of Christ, we are dead to sin, we have Christ in all of His perfection and also His obedience.
We have all of these things now. There is nothing we can do to earn these things they are already ours and if we try to earn these things we are showing unbelief in that we already have them.
The problem that we have Barny is believing in these things, believing in them so much that we become what is rightfully ours in Christ, His righteousness. By believing, a transformation comes in our lives, not by the works of the law, but by a relationship so deep with Christ that we will allow the flesh or self to die. You see Barny the true meaning of sin is a seperation from GOD, that seperation Jesus has healed, when He reconciled us to GOD. He mended the seperation with His own blood so that we can fellowship with GOD. We are one with GOD now if only we would believe it with all of our hearts.
The reason Christ's righteousness is imparted is because we do not fully believe in His imputed righteousness, as our faith grows we recieve more of His imputed righteousness not because it is not in us, but because we don't believe it is in us. Faith is like a water faucet the more it is open the more water flows through it, and when it is fully open the maximum of water flows from the faucet. The faucet has the maximum of water already in it, but it must be opened fully to let all of the water flow fully.
Our true faith has always been the issue, not the imputed righteousness of Christ, we already have this to it's fullest.
You see Barny faith does not nullify the law of GOD it establishes it. I said that imparted righteousness is one hundred percent because the imputed righteousness is one hundred percent, it is the perfect obedience of Christ that we have in the imputed righteousness of Christ. His obedience is what we already have if only we would believe.
This does not dispute what you have said but greatly establishes it. If we would believe not just with our mouths but with all our hearts we become what we believe.
You ask, what is the minimum level of physical behaviour? answer, All the fullness of Christ: Why? because that is what He imputed in us.

 

[Barny]

Let's start with what you have been saying with the imputed righteousness of Christ. We are righteous, we have all the fullness of Christ, we are dead to sin, we have Christ in all of His perfection and also His obedience.
We have all of these things now. There is nothing we can do to earn these things they are already ours and if we try to earn these things we are showing unbelief in that we already have them.

If you believe the above then why do you then say your unrighteous through transgressing the law?
Why would you judge your physical behavior by the law when believers are not under the law?

A believer is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. And being in Christ we are complete in him, Col 2:10.
His seed (Christ) is in us and thus we cannot sin, 1John 3:9.
Hence Satan, the accuser, can not lay anything (including sin) to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33.

We see this in the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". He was complete in Christ and that without any deeds of the law as evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness.

The problem that we have Barny is believing in these things, believing in them so much that we become what is rightfully ours in Christ, His righteousness. By believing, a transformation comes in our lives, not by the works of the law, but by a relationship so deep with Christ that we will allow the flesh or self to die.

But believers do believe we are complete in Christ. We walk by faith and not by sight.
Hence we do not judge this by looking for physical evidence of perfect obedience to the law.
Why?
That physical part of us is imperfect and it's already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10.

God has totally cleansed/purged us of sin at the cross.
We should not then go back to works of the law (evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness) to judge ourselves. If we do this then we only succeed in making ourselves transgressors/Sinners, Gal 2:18.
If we do this then the result is we will judge ourselves of sin/unrighteousness (as your quotes revealed). This then is unbelief.

You see Barny the true meaning of sin is a seperation from GOD, that seperation Jesus has healed, when He reconciled us to GOD. He mended the seperation with His own blood so that we can fellowship with GOD. We are one with GOD now if only we would believe it with all of our hearts.

And a believer, such as the thief on the cross, is reconciled to God, and that without deeds of the law as evidence.
Our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29. And if we believe in Jesus then we are one with God.
And being one with God we are complete in Him, by faith, and that without deeds of the law, Rom 3:28.

 

[theword]

Grace is God's will for all God's people called, "Israel". God's will is his eternal plan for all his creation.

 

[brakelite]

And be not conformed to this world....

but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind...." (Romans 12:2)

Into what?

If we are not to be conformed to this world, but be renewed into something else, what is the something else? Let me share what I think the writer was getting at

.1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Note also the following from
Philippians 2:5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.

And this I think puts it all together;
Romans 8:29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So according to the aforementioned scriptures, it is clear I am sure to everyone that what God is desiring to accomplish in each of us is nothing short of a miracle. Rather than us being conformed to this world, despite the huge influences and temptations that assail us daily, God would have us be conformed to the image of His Son. And because the Son is the express image of the Father, then God desires you and me to be conformed by the renewing of our minds, into a human expression of Himself!!! Now this my friends cannot come to us from anywhere else except from God Himself. It is a gift. A gift imparted to us through the goodness of His grace, and we are to receive it by faith. Therefore He wants to take us back to Eden, where we were first created in the image of God. This image is in character. It was sin that marred that image, therefore in order to express God's character, we need to overcome sin. This is the heart and soul of the gospel.
An understanding therefore of the nature and character of God would greatly help us to understand and appreciate the manner of man or woman we ought to be.

Throughout the history of mankind, names have been given as a representation of the nature and character of the one named. In the Bible this is especially so, even in relation to God Himself.

Ex 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Being a reflection of God's character is not just a NT concept. Micah had this recommendation for Israel...
Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

God's grace, mercy, and justice, His longsuffering goodness and truth, are all active expressions of the core natural quality that underpins everything that God does, summed up in the one word, love. ! John 4:8 tells us that God doesn't just love, but He is love.
And throughout the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, we are consistently reminded that it is love that most expresses God's character, and it is through love that we are to minister to the world and one another, therefore expressing God's nature to all.
Deut 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Le 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Elsewhere in the OT, the word 'stranger' is used instead of 'neighbour'. The stranger was not to be vexed or oppressed, and when sojourning in the land of Israel was to be treated and accepted and loved as a son of Israel. (Except in relation to the ministry of holy things) And most interestingly, Jesus used the word stranger in Matthew 25, telling us precisely how we are to treat him, and that our salvation depended upon it.
To feed the hungry, clothe the naked, welcome the homeless, and visit the imprisoned; all strangers, and to do such for them was the same as if we were doing to Jesus. And the only way this can be done is through a heart filled with the love of God, a heart renewed by the Spirit of God, a heart and mind expressing the nature and character of a gracious, merciful and longsuffering God to a world reeling under the pressures of sin, a world confused by the consistent lies of Satan thus misapprehending the true nature and motives of a loving God, a world beginning to fall apart under the weight of it's collective guilt and unbelief.
The world does not need our condemnation. We, as followers of Jesus, are come not to condemn the world, nor to judge the world, but to introduce the world to Jesus. We are His hands to reach out and lift up the downtrodden and oppressed. We are His mouth to minister to the depressed and fearful. We are His heart and mind to minister to the lonely and the unloved. And we are His feet that delivers the gospel of peace to all nations, kindreds, tongues and people.

If love cannot be found as our motivating force behind all that we do, we are doing it wrong. Are we loving our wives selflessly, as Jesus loved the church and gave Himself for it? Are we loving our neighbours as ourselves? Are we blessing them that curse us? Are we doing good to them that hate us? Are we praying for them that despitefully use us and persecute us? Are we loving our enemies?

And finally, are we expressing our love for Jesus by keeping all His commandments? (John 14:15) Particularly the eleventh?
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Anything less than this my friends, and the world will not recognize us. Without love, we are nothing but noise and show. We may speak any number of languages, see the future, understand all prophecy, expound on all the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, have faith to move the Himalayas into the Indian Ocean, but if we do not have love, all else is vanity.
(1 Cor 13:1-3)

Earlier, I mentioned that the only way to reflect God's character is by overcoming sin. How are we mere mortals to accomplish this seemingly impossible feat? Again, through love.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

[spirit1st]

The thief on the cross was not saved ! He died in his Sins like All before the Lord rose from the dead ! He did go to the good side of Hell ! which was called paradise , Because those there did not suffer !

Everyone who ever lived and died ! died in there Sins! Until Our Lord Went back to Heaven and sent back the Holy Ghost ! the true unseen church begin After He went up and sent back the Holy Ghost1 then Those He freed from Hell and those in the upper rome were born -again !

1Co_15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Mat_27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Meaning ? They were freed from hell but could not go too New Jerusalem , til He went there first and they had to be born again ! He had to go to New Jerusalem first and send back the Power , The Holy Ghost !

After He rose from the dead ? He again walked the earth for 40 days , before going to New Jerusalem ! Those HE freed from Hell had to wait til He went Up and sent back the Holy Ghost before they could be Born again ! Made a New Spirit being ! [New creature ]

Then When He sent back the Holy Ghost those in the upper room and those He had freed Were Born again .starting the True eternal church !

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The Question is ? What was the promise ?

1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
And that comes of course with salvation [Born -Again ] A new creature ! Part of His family and Household Forever more ! Thank YOU LORD JESUS!

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

That is after He arose from the dead and taught them again !

 

[Barny]

Rather than us being conformed to this world, despite the huge influences and temptations that assail us daily, God would have us be conformed to the image of His Son.

And believers have this already through believing in Jesus. Our life is now hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

But, you seem to doubt this and insist on physical evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness/obedience to the law.

I have been asking you what level of obedience to the law is required as evidence.
Is it perfect obedience that is required?
Or is a lessor degree of obedience acceptable?

What are the consequences of failure?
As your an Adventist, lets use the Sabbath as an example.
What if someone believes in Jesus, regularly goes to Sunday church meetings and lives a fairly good life, which is often seen amongst Christians (this probably describes many of us here on Talk Jesus). They are not perfect in behavior, and of course that they don't observe Saturday Sabbath.
What is the outcome for such people according to the doctrine you follow?

 

[brakelite]

And believers have this already through believing in Jesus. Our life is now hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.

Barny, the image of Christ in us is not just a book-keeping entry in the heavenly books. It is also intended to be an experiential reality in your life.

But

, you seem to doubt this and insist on physical evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness/obedience to the law.

I have been asking you what level of obedience to the law is required as evidence.
Is it perfect obedience that is required?
Or is a lessor degree of obedience acceptable?

What are the consequences of failure?
As your an Adventist, lets use the Sabbath as an example.
What if someone believes in Jesus, regularly goes to Sunday church meetings and lives a fairly good life, which is often seen amongst Christians (this probably describes many of us here on Talk Jesus). They are not perfect in behavior, and of course that they don't observe Saturday Sabbath.
What is the outcome for such people according to the doctrine you follow?

Only fully committed obedience to all God's commandments can ever be acceptable to God. No ifs, buts, or maybes, no compromise, no excuses. God demands perfect obedience to all His commands, nothing less. He doesn't lessen His standard to meet man's weakness, He never has and never will. Yet He knows we are but dust. That is why He sent His only Son that the sin problem could be dealt with. Jesus obeyed all God's commandments, including the Sabbath. In Him was found no sin. A perfect life in full accordance to all of God's laws and commandments. The only fully holy righteous life ever lived. The only life lived that has been found to be acceptable to God. And both Jesus and the Father offer that life to you. A life that you can live by faith through the grace and power of a living Saviour now mediating on your behalf in the heavenly sanctuary. Jesus obedience becomes yours. Your disobedience becomes His. A pretty cool exchange if you ask me.

And what of those who refuse to accept Christ's righteousness? Well my friend, what happened to the man found without the wedding garment that was supplied free of charge by the bridegroom?

Now I know you are going to come back and ask me about those who may have died and hadn't yet made perfection, right? I remember in a previous post of yours that you mentioned the chastisement of the Father upon His children. I mentally agreed at that time with your thoughts, and right there is the answer to your question. We go through life in preparation for eternity. We are not yet fit for the company of holy angels, let alone the Father of glory. So we must submit ourselves to character adjustment. God deals with as as His children. He leads us along the paths of righteousness through discipline and guidance through His Spirit. Sometimes the lessons are hard, but as the apostle Paul says, He who endures to the end will be saved. We are all at different stages of growth. We all have issues that need to be dealt with, old habits need to be broken, new ones established. This takes time. Often there are things in our hearts we are not even aware of. Unforgiveness for past hurts inflicted by others, resentment and bitterness, these things must be dealt with but they can run so deep we no longer even know they are there. But God does, and just as He promised, He wants us to be free, to live free from all that rubbish as a result of sin, that we can bring glory to Him. the question isnt are we living perfect lives....the question you should be asking both me and yourself, is "are we living up to the light that God has so graciously shed upon us"? Are we truly sorry for those sins that so easily beset us? Are we willing to give up those evil habits, or do we cling to them preferring the evil to the good?
If we are living fully up to the light that God has revealed to us concerning the state of our own souls, then Barny, that is perfection, even though there may still be unrevealed issues that could be dealt with. God isn't so interested in your performance, but more in your willingness to surrender to His authority in your life. You surrender, He makes what changes are necessary. You just got to be willing.

 

[papajim]

[/Q
Why would you judge your physical behavior by the law when UOTE]

If you believe the above then why do you then say your unrighteous through transgressing the law?believers are not under the law?

A believer is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. And being in Christ we are complete in him, Col 2:10.
His seed (Christ) is in us and thus we cannot sin, 1John 3:9.
Hence Satan, the accuser, can not lay anything (including sin) to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33.

We see this in the thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord". He was complete in Christ and that without any deeds of the law as evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness.



But believers do believe we are complete in Christ. We walk by faith and not by sight.
Hence we do not judge this by looking for physical evidence of perfect obedience to the law.
Why?
That physical part of us is imperfect and it's already dead (by faith) because of sin, Rom 8:10.

God has totally cleansed/purged us of sin at the cross.
We should not then go back to works of the law (evidence of so called "imparted" righteousness) to judge ourselves. If we do this then we only succeed in making ourselves transgressors/Sinners, Gal 2:18.
If we do this then the result is we will judge ourselves of sin/unrighteousness (as your quotes revealed). This then is unbelief.




And a believer, such as the thief on the cross, is reconciled to God, and that without deeds of the law as evidence.
Our works are to believe in Jesus, John 6:29. And if we believe in Jesus then we are one with God.
And being one with God we are complete in Him, by faith, and that without deeds of the law, Rom 3:28.

Hello Barny,
To answer your first question Barny, it is because of unbelief in the gift that Jesus gave us that causes us to be disobedient. If we believe in Jesus with all of our hearts hence perfect faith we will not sin. And believers are not under the law, those that transgress are unbelievers, they are under the law. If we have Jesus's perfect righteousness in us now, and we perform that which is unrighteousness, we do not believe that we have His perfect righteousness in us now. This means that righteousness comes by faith, the faith of Jesus.
Your next statement is correct.
Satan can accuse us and will even if it is a lie. But I'm more concerned of what God can accuse us of, because of our unbelief. God gave us His only begotton son to free us from sin if we throw away that gift, because of our unbelief, then our sins in us will remain.

I stand by my position that we are complete in Jesus, we cannot see God, so our whole entire relationship with God, is of faith. That is what Paul is talking about, "we walk by faith not by site". This is believing in the God we cannot see.

Barny it is a covenant, God gives through Christ, we recieve by faith. The greater our faith the more we recieve, when faith is at it's fulness meaning "faithful" we will recieve all the fullness of Christ. We have it now, but if we don't not believe in fulness, we cannot recieve in fulness.

Another statement you have made is that in Christ we cannot sin, this is true but has a much greater meaning than you realize. Paul has said that our old man is crucified in Christ, the flesh is dead, and that is true when you except Jesus and believe in Him. However if we don't believe the flesh is dead, we revive it through unbelief. If I transgress the law, I am saying that I do not believe that the flesh is dead and that the old man is crucified already, and therefore break my relationship with God through unbelief.
This all comes down to faith, faith to believe that I am crucified in Christ so much that the flesh is dead, and when the flesh is dead all that is left is Christ, performing in me, Christ as He is, in all of His righteousness, in all of His love, in all of His Holiness, in all of His obedience, In all of His Glory. When this takes place, we cannot sin because we have allowed the flesh to die in Christ and as there is no sin in Christ there is no sin in us. At this point I believe we will be sealed in Christ and we will no longer sin and cannot sin, because we are dead and Christ is alive in us.
One of my favorit texts in the bible is 1Jn 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is."
What a wonderful promise.
I gather that in this text it saying that when we have reached the fullness of faith and cannot sin, we will not know it until Jesus comes in the clouds of glory and at this time we will understand what we have become through faith.

 

[DHC]

Only fully committed obedience to all God's commandments can ever be acceptable to God.

We are not yet fit for the company of holy angels, let alone the Father of glory. So we must submit ourselves to character adjustment.
God deals with as as His children.

Hello Brakelite.

There is, in the Gospel of Jesus Christ a revelation of profound importance.

It is this very revelation that I wish to impress upon you.

You declared in your post these very words;

We are not yet fit for the company of holy angels, let alone the Father of glory.

Your statement brakelite is at odds with the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Your statement is the exact opposite of the promise of the Gospel.

Colossians 1
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present
you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach,
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away
from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven,
and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

It is the faith in Christ that is the foundation of our reconciliation.

We walk in the faith in Jesus, firm and strong, it is Jesus who has
reconciled us. We do not reconcile ourselves to Jesus by works of
the law. Or in your case, the works of the ten commandments.

Colossians 1
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us
to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

You have been transferred already into the kingdom, this is done
via the reconciliation. This is the testimony of the scriptures.

You believe that you are not yet transferred into the Kingdom
of God. You believe that your flesh must conform to the ten
commandments.

Your statement which I will repeat;

"We are not yet fit for the company of holy angels, let alone the Father of glory."

You are denying the power of the Gospel to save.
You have denied that the blood of Christ has reconciled
you to the Father.

Your belief is a righteousness obtained by the works of
the ten commandments. Or in other words, a righteousness
of self effort with a vague assent to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Our flesh is dead in Christ, a baptism of death, we walk by the
Holy Spirit. Our focus is on heaven, on Jesus Christ, not on
the flesh. Walk by the Spirit, consider yourself dead to sin.
You are a new creation, a heavenly person in Christ, be what
you really are. Not what you formerly were before Christ.
Live Christ, breath Christ, you have been born again.

Finally brakelite, you did not answer the question Barny
asked regarding the sabbath. Please answer Barny with
the sda belief regarding the sabbath. Barny asked of you
brakelite, what a seventh day advocate is. What is wrong
with a sunday observance?

 

[Barny]

Jesus obedience becomes yours. Your disobedience becomes His. A pretty cool exchange if you ask me.

And what of those who refuse to accept Christ's righteousness? Well my friend, what happened to the man found without the wedding garment that was supplied free of charge by the bridegroom?

Here your speaking of believing in Jesus and thus our faith is counted for righteousness. This is where all here would agree.

However, my question was focused mainly on the Adventist issue of not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. There are many church denominations who never keep the Saturday Sabbath.
As for the behavior of church members within those churches, we see that it is no different from that of Adventists.
So where does a non-Adventist Christian stand when they never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

The reason for pursuing such questions is because it has been so difficult to get an answer to them from Adventists I have spoken too. My experience is that they speak of condemnation for not keeping the law but then go silent when asking them details about whether they keep (perfect obedience) the law themselves. And the few that do admit that they do not keep (perfect obedience) the law then go silent when asked what is the minimum obedience God will accept?

We are not yet fit for the company of holy angels, let alone the Father of glory. So we must submit ourselves to character adjustment. God deals with as as His children. He leads us along the paths of righteousness through discipline and guidance through His Spirit. Sometimes the lessons are hard, but as the apostle Paul says, He who endures to the end will be saved. We are all at different stages of growth. We all have issues that need to be dealt with, old habits need to be broken, new ones established. This takes time.

I agree that Christians will be all at different stages of growth. This is evident.

But I disagree with your claim that we are not yet fit for the company of holy angels or the Father of glory.

You focus so much on the imperfect physical part (which has already been dealt with, Rom 8:10) of us that you miss seeing Christ in believers.
I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20
We're a new creation, and henceforth we regard nobody according to the flesh, 2Cor 5:16,17.
Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
We're the temple of the Holy Spirit, 1Cor 6:19.

God sees Christ in us.
He sees us as righteous (Rom 4:5), sanctified (Heb 10:10), holy, (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14), and cannot sin (1John 3:9).

So where do all the above scripture points lack in making us fit to be with the Father of glory?
Believers are complete in Christ, Col 2:10.

 

[Barny]

[/Q
Why would you judge your physical behavior by the law when UOTE]
Hello Barny,
To answer your first question Barny, it is because of unbelief in the gift that Jesus gave us that causes us to be disobedient. If we believe in Jesus with all of our hearts hence perfect faith we will not sin. And believers are not under the law, those that transgress are unbelievers, they are under the law. If we have Jesus's perfect righteousness in us now, and we perform that which is unrighteousness, we do not believe that we have His perfect righteousness in us now. This means that righteousness comes by faith, the faith of Jesus.
Your next statement is correct.
Satan can accuse us and will even if it is a lie. But I'm more concerned of what God can accuse us of, because of our unbelief. God gave us His only begotton son to free us from sin if we throw away that gift, because of our unbelief, then our sins in us will remain.

I stand by my position that we are complete in Jesus, we cannot see God, so our whole entire relationship with God, is of faith. That is what Paul is talking about, "we walk by faith not by site". This is believing in the God we cannot see.

Barny it is a covenant, God gives through Christ, we recieve by faith. The greater our faith the more we recieve, when faith is at it's fulness meaning "faithful" we will recieve all the fullness of Christ. We have it now, but if we don't not believe in fulness, we cannot recieve in fulness.

Another statement you have made is that in Christ we cannot sin, this is true but has a much greater meaning than you realize. Paul has said that our old man is crucified in Christ, the flesh is dead, and that is true when you except Jesus and believe in Him. However if we don't believe the flesh is dead, we revive it through unbelief. If I transgress the law, I am saying that I do not believe that the flesh is dead and that the old man is crucified already, and therefore break my relationship with God through unbelief.
This all comes down to faith, faith to believe that I am crucified in Christ so much that the flesh is dead, and when the flesh is dead all that is left is Christ, performing in me, Christ as He is, in all of His righteousness, in all of His love, in all of His Holiness, in all of His obedience, In all of His Glory. When this takes place, we cannot sin because we have allowed the flesh to die in Christ and as there is no sin in Christ there is no sin in us. At this point I believe we will be sealed in Christ and we will no longer sin and cannot sin, because we are dead and Christ is alive in us.
One of my favorit texts in the bible is 1Jn 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is."
What a wonderful promise.
I gather that in this text it saying that when we have reached the fullness of faith and cannot sin, we will not know it until Jesus comes in the clouds of glory and at this time we will understand what we have become through faith.

We'll just have to disagree.

The doctrine you follow brings people back under the law for righteousness by works. This results in making yourself a sinner, Gal 2:18.

 

[brakelite]

Here your speaking of believing in Jesus and thus our faith is counted for righteousness. This is where all here would agree.

However, my question was focused mainly on the Adventist issue of not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. There are many church denominations who never keep the Saturday Sabbath.
As for the behavior of church members within those churches, we see that it is no different from that of Adventists.
So where does a non-Adventist Christian stand when they never keep the Saturday Sabbath?

The reason for pursuing such questions is because it has been so difficult to get an answer to them from Adventists I have spoken too. My experience is that they speak of condemnation for not keeping the law but then go silent when asking them details about whether they keep (perfect obedience) the law themselves. And the few that do admit that they do not keep (perfect obedience) the law then go silent when asked what is the minimum obedience God will accept?

Hi Barny.As I said recently, the only acceptable standard of obedience is: Only fully committed obedience to all God's commandments can ever be acceptable to God. No ifs, buts, or maybes, no compromise, no excuses. God demands perfect obedience to all His commands, nothing less.
That Barny, is why we will always need Jesus sacrifice as our only basis for our justification. Not our obedience, not our righteousness, not our good works, but the blood of Christ, regardless of our maturity or lack thereof. Our acceptance of Christ is by faith, and faith only. For that reason there are Christians in every Christian communion upon this planet, including those who do not keep Sabbath. Although not all who profess to be Christians are in fact Christians. Including many I am sure who keep Sabbath.

I agree that Christians will be all at different stages of growth. This is evident.

But I disagree with your claim that we are not yet fit for the company of holy angels or the Father of glory.

You focus so much on the imperfect physical part (which has already been dealt with, Rom 8:10) of us that you miss seeing Christ in believers.
I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20
We're a new creation, and henceforth we regard nobody according to the flesh, 2Cor 5:16,17.
Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
We're the temple of the Holy Spirit, 1Cor 6:19.

All of these scriptures Barny are great, and having faith in them is great also, BUT, what is the result of that faith? What does it accomplish in the here and now, in your life as it is today? Does believing in these things affect the way you live? Because Barny, they should. Profoundly, radically, and miraculously.

God sees Christ in us.

Does He Barny? Do you see Christ in every Christian you came across? Are they all as loving, patient, selfless and kind, just like Jesus? Loving mercy, doing justly, and walking humbly with God? I haven't seen every Christian like that Barny, and I must confess, I am not yet like that myself. Thank God that the blood of Christ covers my deficiencies.

He sees us as righteous (Rom 4:5),

Yes, praise God that our own righteousness isn't the stanard by which we are judged, but Christ's. Having faith in this declaration of grace by our heavenly Father however Barny should result in something tangible in our lives. Just as it did for Abraham. For it wasn't enough for Abraham to simply believe,

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

sanctified (Heb 10:10),

Yes Barny, our sanctification comes as a direct result of the offering of the body of Christ. One sacrifice, one body, one Saviour. But Barny, not a momentary event that started and finished on Calvary. Our justification was a momentary event, the moment Christ died, we lived. But sanctification isn't dependent on just the sacrifice, but the ongoing ministry of Christ as our High Priest. Just as the shadow or type of sanctification involved the work of the priest in the sprinkling of the blood in the sanctuary, so also does ours depend on the antitype, the reality of Jesus mediating on our behalf in heaven. The result, the tangible physical reality of the spiritual truth of this sanctification Barny can be seen a few verses later, noting the parallels between the OT type and the NT antitype in

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 ¶ Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

What are those laws that are put into our hearts and minds Barny?

holy, (Rom 11:16),

I love this analogy Barny. The vine, the branches, and the fruit. We are grafted into the vine, who is none other than Jesus Himself. We cannot accomplish anything on our own, we are completely and utterly dependent upon the vine for our strength, our sustenance, our daily food and subsequent growth. This also Barny however results in something. There is a tangible real life experiential result in our daily living as a result of abiding in the vine.And what is that? Fruit!

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The above are all things we do in this life. Either in the flesh, or of the old carnal nature, or in the spirit, in the newly created life, born again from above.

John 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.(Sanctification Barny)
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 ¶ As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus tells us to abide in Him Barny. So where is He? Is He still on the cross of Calvary? No of course not. He is in heaven acting as our Mediator, our High Priest. It is to His ongoing ministry as High Priest, not sacrifice, that we look to and depend on for our sanctification. Note that fruit is not an option. But it isn't up to us to grow the fruit. It is upt to us to abide. It is the Vine that grows the fruit, as a natural ongoing result of abiding in and being constantly attached to the Vine. Being so attached we cannot help but to grow fruit.

Philipians 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
9 ¶ And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Here again Barny, more than just a spiritual declaration, but a real tangible experiential result of Christ's imparted righteousness.

perfected (Heb 10:14),

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.....

If we have true faith in these scriptures, they will bring forth fruit. God's word, His promises such as you have been quoting, are creative power. Mor e powerful than the pitiful flesh of man and woman, God's word has the power to recreate in us the very perfect, holy, righteousness image of Christ Himself.

and cannot sin (1John 3:9).

If, again I say IF we abide in the vine, we will not sin. And that is precisely the focus, the intent, the hope of the gospel, a close intimate personal relationship with the Creator of all things, Jesus Christ, that we may overcome the lusts and selfishness of the flesh, and

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

So where do all the above scripture points lack in making us fit to be with the Father of glory?
Believers are complete in Christ, Col 2:10.

They don't lack Barny except in the hearts and minds of those who don't fully accept that they can actually result in changes in the lives of those who do believe.

Any improvements in our behavior is through our ever growing trust in God which can result in changes in our lives.
But this is no basis for judging whether we are righteous or not, as we already have righteousness through our faith.

Those improvements Barny are righteous improvements.
Those improvements Barny are imparted to us from God.
Thus Barny they are imparted righteousness. This is your own testimony from your own pen.
And you are absolutely right. They are no basis for judgeing whether we are accounted righteous, for as you say, that is already taken care of. Yet they are natural results of partaking of the divine nature, of abiding in the vine, of hungering and thirsting after righteousnes, of seeking first the kingdom of God and in equal importance God's righteousness. Those imparted improvements in our outward behaviour Barny are a direct result of

the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places....now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto Him be glory in the church by Jesus Christ throughout all ages, world without end, amen. Ephesians 15-23; 3:14-21.