The Judgement

[B-A-C]

The Bible says, one day we will ALL be raised again. Both the righteous and the wicked.
Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

I find it interesting that all of the verses above say we will judged by our deeds, not by what we say we believe.
Tit 1:16; They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

It seems Jesus doesn't judge the unbelievers, God the father does.
John 12:47; "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48; "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

It appears we will be judged as whether we are "considered worthy" to attain the resurrection to eternal life.
Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

It seems even the righteous will be judged by their deeds.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad

I often hear people say they will be judged by "their standing in Christ". This may be true, but I haven't really found scriptures to support it yet. If you have some, I would be interested in seeing them.
Yet, I wonder if the way we live our lives is what determines "our standing in Christ".

 

[Fenn]

[h=3]Revelation 2:17[/h]King James Version (KJV)


17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


I often wonder what our recompense will be for good and bad deeds. We will all do bad deeds, and more bad than good. "Not one of you is righteous"
So, what is the value of deeds? Must they be to someone outside of the family? Does just being a good father and husband during a time when that is a rarity count as good deeds?

I want to look into this more. I have heard that there will be two judgments. One that determines where you go Up/Down and one that is based off of what you have done. I mean those who have not accepted the truth will receive death, I assume their deeds don't matter.

Hopefully, this discussion builds a little.

 

[brakelite]

The Bible says, one day we will ALL be raised again. Both the righteous and the wicked.
Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

I find it interesting that all of the verses above say we will judged by our deeds, not by what we say we believe.
Tit 1:16; They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

It seems Jesus doesn't judge the unbelievers, God the father does.
John 12:47; "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48; "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

It appears we will be judged as whether we are "considered worthy" to attain the resurrection to eternal life.
Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

It seems even the righteous will be judged by their deeds.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad

I often hear people say they will be judged by "their standing in Christ". This may be true, but I haven't really found scriptures to support it yet. If you have some, I would be interested in seeing them.
Yet, I wonder if the way we live our lives is what determines "our standing in Christ".

Mmmm. A tree cannot produce fruit unless it remains rooted to the ground, and the branch cannot produce fruit unless it remains a part of the tree. And it is the evidence of the fruit that decides the fate of the branch. So the branch cannot fruit without the tree, and will be destroyed unless it fruits. I would suggest we focus on remaining in the tree rather than producing fruit, even though we are judged by whether we have them.
Interesting.

 

[james1523]

The Bible says, one day we will ALL be raised again. Both the righteous and the wicked.
Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

I find it interesting that all of the verses above say we will judged by our deeds, not by what we say we believe.
Tit 1:16; They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

It seems Jesus doesn't judge the unbelievers, God the father does.
John 12:47; "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48; "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

It appears we will be judged as whether we are "considered worthy" to attain the resurrection to eternal life.
Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

It seems even the righteous will be judged by their deeds.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad

I often hear people say they will be judged by "their standing in Christ". This may be true, but I haven't really found scriptures to support it yet. If you have some, I would be interested in seeing them.
Yet, I wonder if the way we live our lives is what determines "our standing in Christ".

The first scriptures you post generally refer to the general judgement of non-believers. They are judged by their works, else how could God judge those who have never heard of Christ or those who lived before Christ? How would God judge Cain and Abel for example except by their works?

2 Cor 5:10 refers to the judgement of believers according to their deeds, not for heaven or hell, but for reward or loss/punishment. Also see 1 Cor 3:12. God's purpose is for us to look like Christ, we will be judged by how much we look like Christ (Rom 8:29). Also compare with 1 Cor 3:12 - wood , hay stubble or precious stones etc. The precious stones , gold, silver refers to Christ being built into our being, so we look more like Him.

 

[B-A-C]

The first scriptures you post generally refer to the general judgement of non-believers. They are judged by their works, else how could God judge those who have never heard of Christ or those who lived before Christ? How would God judge Cain and Abel for example except by their works?

No argument. Of course that leaves John 5 and Romans 2, which specifically mention the righteous and unrighteous.
As for Abel, even his faith was tested.
Heb 11:4; By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
In fact the whole chapter of Hebrews 11 lists the hero's of faith before the time of Christ.
Heb 11:39; And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40; because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the two separate judgements of the (righteous by Christ) and the (un-righteous by the father).
I was just pointing out, both mention deeds.

 

[james1523]

No argument. Of course that leaves John 5 and Romans 2, which specifically mention the righteous and unrighteous.
As for Abel, even his faith was tested.
Heb 11:4; By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
In fact the whole chapter of Hebrews 11 lists the hero's of faith before the time of Christ.
Heb 11:39; And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
Heb 11:40; because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the two separate judgements of the (righteous by Christ) and the (un-righteous by the father).
I was just pointing out, both mention deeds.

Absolutely , no disagreement here. Both are judged by deeds, and also our character, and every word we speak we will give account for , etc.

One common view about the judgement that I've encountered is that we'll be asked a series of test questions, and if we answer correctly we will enter heaven. But there is nothing in the bible about this as far as i know, God already knows what we've done and said, and so we won't be asked any doctrinal questions.

 

[B-A-C]

I often wonder what our recompense will be for good and bad deeds. We will all do bad deeds, and more bad than good. "Not one of you is righteous"
So, what is the value of deeds? Must they be to someone outside of the family? Does just being a good father and husband during a time when that is a rarity count as good deeds?

I think the main thing is... the reason you are doing them. Are deeds and works the same things? I think usually they are.
If you're trying to get saved on your own righteousness without Jesus, that's definitely the wrong reason.
Isa 64:6; For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Tit 3:5; He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

But once we are already saved,
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
notice it says EVERY MAN" not some men.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Eph 5:11; Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
Heb 10:24; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,
Tit 2:7; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,
Rev 22:12; "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Are you doing the deed for the glory of the father? Are to be noticed by men?
Matt 23:5; "But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments.
Matt 6:1; "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

 

[Davy]

Hi B-A-C, this is an interesting comment,

But once we are already saved,
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
notice it says EVERY MAN" not some men.

For me, this throws up a puzzling question, if a person believes in the doctrine, "once saved, always saved," which I do not, why would a baptized Christian person need to be judged by Jesus? As an imperfect human, the sin atoning value of the ransom sacrifice will cover what ever repentant sin a Christian has committed. So why do they have to be judged? As the Bible repeatedly states that all will be judged and weighed in the balance, this to me clearly shows Christians are not once saved always saved!

 

[DHC]

2 Timothy 1
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

 

[james1523]

Hi B-A-C, this is an interesting comment,

But once we are already saved,
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
notice it says EVERY MAN" not some men.

For me, this throws up a puzzling question, if a person believes in the doctrine, "once saved, always saved," which I do not, why would a baptized Christian person need to be judged by Jesus? As an imperfect human, the sin atoning value of the ransom sacrifice will cover what ever repentant sin a Christian has committed. So why do they have to be judged? As the Bible repeatedly states that all will be judged and weighed in the balance, this to me clearly shows Christians are not once saved always saved!

This is easy! I believe on once saved always saved. I also believe in the believer's judgement. Why are they judged? The answer is for reward, not for salvation.
The apostle Paul uses the example of being an athlete in the games and running for the prize - a crown, not eternal life (which He already has by faith in Christ alone). 1 Cor 9:24, Phil 3:14.
Jesus spoke about rewards for good servants, punishment for evil servants.
Jesus spoke about talents - some rule over 5 cities, some only 1 city, depending upon their faithfulness. (Matt 25).
There are positions in heaven - some sit at Jesus's right and left , others will be further from Him. (Mark 10:39).
This is where Jesus's opinion of us and how we lived our life matters.

Luke 12:45 etc:

45 But if that servant says to himself, `My master is delayed in coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating.

So there are 3 possible outcomes for an unfaithful believer. Most severe is being put with the unfaithful (unbelievers).

Less severe is to receiver a severe beating. Least severe is receive a light beating.

Basically the holy angels will grab them and beat them with sticks (rods).

 

[clark thompson]

Judgement will happen even though this thinking is not popular today.

 

[B-A-C]

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

No one is arguing that we are saved by works (or deeds). I think I specifically mentioned a few posts earlier, that we aren't, however...
I doubt many high school students or college students get hired because they know how to shoot a gun, hammer a nail, run a cash register, or drive an 18 wheeler.
But after they've been hired on for a while, perhaps a few weeks, or even a few months...
The army expects you to know how to shoot a gun.
Your boss at Wal*Mart expects you to know how to run a cash register. You will likely be doing it all day every day.
The dispatcher at Fed Ex expects you to know to drive a truck. You will likely be doing it all day every day.
Your construction foreman expects you to know how to hammer a nail. You will likely be doing it fairly often.

Your other boss who was also a carpenter, didn't save you because of anything you did or anything you knew how to do.
But now that he did save you, he has great expectations for you.
John 4:38; "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor."
Acts 20:35; "In everything I showed you that by working hard in this manner you must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

We are all soldiers, farmers or planter for Christ.
2 Tim 2:3; Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
2 Tim 2:4; No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier.
2 Tim 2:5; Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules.
2 Tim 2:6; The hard-working farmer ought to be the first to receive his share of the crops.

If you aren't earning your keep, it will be noticed.
Matt 25:14; "For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
Matt 25:15; "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
Matt 25:16; "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
Matt 25:17; "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
Matt 25:18; "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
Matt 25:19; "Now after a long time the master of those slaves *came and *settled accounts with them.
Matt 25:20; "The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, 'Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.'
Matt 25:21; "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:22; "Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, 'Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.'
Matt 25:23; "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Are you working for the master? Or are you a lazy and worthless employee?
1 Cor 3:8; Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentiles,
Rom 2:10; but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Jer 32:19; great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Hi B-A-C, this is an interesting comment,

But once we are already saved,
Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
notice it says EVERY MAN" not some men.

For me, this throws up a puzzling question, if a person believes in the doctrine, "once saved, always saved," which I do not, why would a baptized Christian person need to be judged by Jesus? As an imperfect human, the sin atoning value of the ransom sacrifice will cover what ever repentant sin a Christian has committed. So why do they have to be judged? As the Bible repeatedly states that all will be judged and weighed in the balance, this to me clearly shows Christians are not once saved always saved!

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


(((Christians are judged for reward.)))
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.


15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (((once saved always saved)))

 

[B-A-C]

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (((once saved always saved)))

Perhaps, but I think Matt 25 makes it clear that you better add at least something to what he gives you.
If God gives you a dollar, maybe you will make another dollar. Maybe 99 cents of that dollar will be lost or wasted. But at least you have a dollar and one cent now.
I personally believe if He gives you a dollar, and you come back with a dollar, or anything less (50 cents, 75 cents?) you will be called wicked and lazy and "cast out".
At the very least, you have to pass the test of faith. (Which itself is a work).
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Thes 1:3; constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,
2 Thes 1:11; To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,
So I agree the man remains. But I also believe this is only true if he has some "increase" for God.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

Perhaps, but I think Matt 25 makes it clear that you better add at least something to what he gives you.
If God gives you a dollar, maybe you will make another dollar. Maybe 99 cents of that dollar will be lost or wasted. But at least you have a dollar and one cent now.
I personally believe if He gives you a dollar, and you come back with a dollar, or anything less (50 cents, 75 cents?) you will be called wicked and lazy and "cast out".
At the very least, you have to pass the test of faith. (Which itself is a work).
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Thes 1:3; constantly bearing in mind your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father,
2 Thes 1:11; To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power,
So I agree the man remains. But I also believe this is only true if he has some "increase" for God.

James 2:26

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

True saving faith will produce good works because we are saved unto good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10
<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} span.verse {mso-style-name:verse;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[spirit1st]

We get Rewards for our works. That the only judgment we come under. After all we judge the world and the fallen angels. They know it and hate us that much more.
But , Our judgment will be the same as our LORD would be. Because our new creature [Spirit] as the same mind as Jesus Christ.

1Co_6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Co_6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

We have His type mind and nature at our New birth. [Born -Again] [Born of GOD SPIRIT]

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

[brakelite]

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Rom 2:7; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Rom 2:8; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Rom 2:9; There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentiles,
Rom 2:10; but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Jer 32:19; great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;

For those of you who continue to insist that judgement for the Christian is simply a handing out of rewards, you are missing the obvious. Read the above quotes from scripture again. And if you miss it, read them again. They do not refer to rewards for your optional extras. These are salvational, pure and simple.
The text from Romans says clearly we are judged according to our deeds/works. Paul then vivdly describes the two options, depending on the judgment made. If one does good, he receives glory, honour, and immortality, or eternal life. (Verse 7.)
For he who does evil, who disobeys the truth, (and you can do this as a Christian) and instead obey unrighteousness (you can do this as a Christian as well) your options are limited, the execution of justice clear and plain. You receive wrath, indignation, tribulation, and distress. This latter judgment is set in direct contradistinction to the first promise, that of eternal life. In other words, deeds or works decides whether you live forever, or die along with the wicked.
It is a very peculiar God you believe in if you are promoting the idea that an evil disobedient untruthful unrighteous person will ever be allowed into God's Kingdom.

The texts from Matthew are no less simple. Chrstians are expected to produce fruit. The fruit Inspector promise here that (after an appropriate period of discipline and pruning as we read elsewhere) if one doesn't produce fruit, he is cut off and burnt. For a vivid description of this particular event read the latter part of Revelation 14.

 

[spirit1st]

You must know? Which part of us is Never a sinner and which p[art is born and dies a sinner?

Our New Creature is the only part that goes to New Jerusalem . It cannot sin.
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh_3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Yep ,Salvation is a FREE GIFT . We do not earn it or keep it or save it. He alone died for our sins 100% .

Of course satan and his demons use the weakness of our flesh to get us and others to beat us down. Many never reach the place GOD wants them too here. Because they are told they cannot over come or fail and no use trying. It a lie. We can all live the live GOD wants us to after a time. Beat down people have a very hard time coming to the place He wants us too.


Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom_4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom_4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

the demon want us to get our minds on other works or short comings. So we will not be helping them . I find the more we understand? The more prefect we serve HIM daily.

The churches here sometimes do more harm than good?

Many trying to see perfection in the flesh. Trying to Make people feel unworthy and worthless and unable to live for HIM. Turning many away from GOD LOVE and grace?

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
It All by Faith. Salvation, the gifts , the power of God ,Everything. But man still wants works to rule?

The Greatest Work ,the greatest Faith, the greatest fruit is LOVE, LOVE ,LOVE.

1Co_13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.[ LOVE]

People want to see some carnal works as they judge Works?
God wants to see us LOVE one another !


We start off in LOVE ,Trying our Best not to hurt each other. But life each other up. And we can always show LOVE by praying for the needs of others.


Believe it or No/ It hard for some to LOVE others. They been taught to judge All in about every way?

1Jn_3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

I LOVE muslims. But I hate the god they serve. That why I cannot fellowship with them . But I still talk and tell them the truth out of LOVE. I do not want any of them to go to hell.
But I know there god wants All of us in dead and in hell.

I found when You show LOVE toward others and kids. They want to be near you and hear you. When You put others down always? They want to stay away from you.

The truth sets us free. It amazing how Loving someone can change them ?

 

[B-A-C]

Our New Creature is the only part that goes to New Jerusalem . It cannot sin.
1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A verse with a difficult translation in KJV. The same verse in other Bibles...
(AMP) 1 Jn 3:9; No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine *****, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.
(GW) 1 Jn 3:9; Those who have been born from God don't live sinful lives. What God has said lives in them, and they can't live sinful lives. They have been born from God.
(MSG) 1 Jn 3:9; People conceived and brought into life by God don't make a practice of sin. How could they? God's seed is deep within them, making them who they are. It's not in the nature of the God-begotten to practice and parade sin.
(NASB) 1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(NIV) 1 Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
(NLT) 1 Jn 3:9; Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

The original word here is...
ποιέω
poieō
poy-eh'-o
Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield. Compare G4238.

It specifically mentions exercising, performing, continuing, purposing, you can't continue something you've only done once. You can't exercise something you've only done once.
Just because we get saved doesn't mean we stop sinning. We may be part spiritual, and we may be part flesh, but in the end, we are ONE being, not two. You are accountable for what your flesh does. Also why do think nothing bad can ever happen in Heaven. Satan has been there since he was cast out.
Job 1:6; Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:7; The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
Job 2:1; Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2; The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."

Keep in mind, Satan was in Heaven when he was cast out.
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

The verses below are controversial, some say this has already happened, others say this is the future, still others say it is both.
But whichever way you interpret it, a war has either happened, or will happen in heaven.
Rev 12:7; And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

 

[B-A-C]

Rom_4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom_4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

the demon want us to get our minds on other works or short comings. So we will not be helping them . I find the more we understand? The more prefect we serve HIM daily.

Once again, being saved BY works, is getting confused with being saved FOR works. This is how we get saved...
Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

This is what we do after we are saved...
Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:26; For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
1 Tim 6:18; Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Mat 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Tit 2:7; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified,