Can a Christian Backslide?
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DHC
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Hello Farout.
Galatians 5
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
This is what the scripture states farout, this is not my theology or my opinion on this matter. You can fall from
Grace as Paul states that it is possible to do. Seeking to be justified before God by law after receiving Jesus Christ
is one of the sure ways to sever oneself from salvation.
RJ
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I will have to take a bit of an opposite view here and I don't see a situation here of falling away. Paul is admonishing those who want to follow the temple law, be circumsised but, also follow Jesus. Paul was stating something like "you can't have two masters": Matthew 6:24, Luke 16:13...If you are following the law Jesus is no value to you. One who is really saved with Christ in them, there will be no desire to go back to the Temple and it's requirements. You can't fall away from a place that you have never been.
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A view that falling away is impossible for a true Christian is wrong. A view that falling away results in losing salvation is also wrong. In regards to the Galatians, they are believers in Christ, they have received the Spirit by faith (Gal 3:2), Paul writes to them as brethren, they have not stopped being God's children, they are still saved, they have only fallen from the experience of grace by turning to the law. Christ has become of no effect for them - not for salvation, but for righteous living and sanctification.
DHC
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Hello RJ.
Nice to receive a reply from you. Though I do struggle to understand what you are talking about in this post.
I understand that English is not your native language and you do very well in your posts in general.
Paul says 'you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.'
Fallen from Grace means exactly what it says RJ. How about the following line
'4 You have been severed from Christ'. This most definitely is stating the same
outcome as fallen from Grace. Salvation in Christ has been nullified which is
what severed from Christ means.
By 'temple law' are you referring to the Mt Sinai legal code?
Also RJ, not sure what you are trying to say here?
Correction on this point RJ.
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was
publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you:
did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
They started in the Holy Spirit and were a new creation but they ended up under the law.
Sowing to the flesh will reap the destruction of the flesh or the judgement of God if you like.
We must walk by the Spirit and in the Spirit at all times. Sow to the Spirit and you will
reap eternal life RJ. Faith, Spirit and love are all essentials in Christ.
DHC
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Not at all.
Let's consider Galatians 3 more closely, to find the answer to "do Christians who backslide by turning to the law lose their salvation?"
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was
publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you:
did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
- this confirms that they had the Spirit by faith. This should any dispel any ideas that they were not true believers in Christ. It is possible for true Christians to backslide.
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
- This is the crucial verse. They began by the Spirit, but now are trying to be perfected by the flesh.
What did they begin by the Spirit? They began their new life by faith in Christ. Again this dispels any ideas that they weren't genuine Christians.
What are they trying to perfect by the flesh? Their experiential sanctification - If we begin in the Spirit we should also be perfected by the Spirit.
These believers were not in danger of losing their salvation , they were in danger of losing rewards, because they built wood, hay, stubble, upon the foundation of Christ.
Rom 8:9 proves that they belonged to Christ, because they had the Spirit: And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ
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RJ
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Correction on this point RJ.
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was
publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you:
did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
They started in the Holy Spirit and were a new creation but they ended up under the law.
Sowing to the flesh will reap the destruction of the flesh or the judgement of God if you like.
We must walk by the Spirit and in the Spirit at all times. Sow to the Spirit and you will
reap eternal life RJ. Faith, Spirit and love are all essentials in Christ.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
No DHC, that is not what I see:
Galatians 3
3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was
publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you:
did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
They started in the Holy Spirit and were a new creation but they ended up under the law.
Sowing to the flesh will reap the destruction of the flesh or the judgement of God if you like.
We must walk by the Spirit and in the Spirit at all times. Sow to the Spirit and you will
reap eternal life RJ. Faith, Spirit and love are all essentials in Christ.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
No DHC, that is not what I see:
- 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you:
did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? First of all to understand this as I do, you must know, that if you are truly saved, Christ in you, then the Bible says nothing about God reversing this..how do you "fall away" from our perfect and omnipotent God? Paul was asking here if these people were truly saved by the spirit through faith or the law. If they were still going to the temple and being circumsised, then they were not saved by faith and Christ is of no value to them.You are saved right, Christ is in you? Can you fall away to unbelief?.....I can't! Going back to unbelief is not possible for a true Christian, to say so , is to say that Christ finished work on the cross and his resurrection is not sufficient: 2 Corinthians 12:9....God's perfect grace can not be challenged!
DHC
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For a Gentile Christian to choose to follow the law and to be circumcised. Would mean the severance
of the Christian from Christ. Disconnection from salvation, sowing to the flesh will reap the judgement
of God. All backsliding is sowing to the flesh, do not be deceived on this point farout. You will reap ever
deeper corruption when you involve yourself in fleshly pursuits. God is loving but the branch can be
severed from the tree.
Pursuing the law for the purpose of sanctification is a fatal condition and also a work of the flesh.
If one attempts to obey the law in a legal way then circumcision is necessary. Membership of the
Old Covenant needs to be established and that is what the scripture demands.
The legal code of Israel is within the Old Covenant that God established with the nation of Israel.
Any attempt by a Gentile Christian to avail themselves of this legal system results in divine excommunication.
That is what Paul is saying in this letter to the Galatians.
Brighthouse
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Farout Can you just picture being with Jesus himself! Seeing his miracles! and hearing his words! Even given power by him to do the same things! Then flee from him when he needed them most??( matt 26:56) Talk about backslide! Now the question is can a person filled with Holy Spirit backslide ? YES! I did for 8 years brother!
Many hear the word mercy,or hear the words have mercy on this person.Mercy? Do you know just how much love it even takes to have any mercy?? Indeed we do brother!!TONS! And we find we never have any to give another, until we fully understand just how much mercy Jesus has upon each one of us! Then we have enough to give!( john 13:34)
Jesus love produces the same amount of his own mercy! As well as compassion,which brings HOPE! For if our Jesus did not believe in his own hope, we could have no mercy or love!( rom 15:13) To against, all odds still be for you, even when we ourselves go against our very self! ( rom 8:31) Backslide starts, where all sin begins brother,in our very mind, hence why it is so very important to renew our minds and set out minds!!( rom 12:1-2 and Col 3:2) So like the prodigal son we return back to our still loving Father!( luke 15:11-32) Always being so grateful and thankful!!( luke 17:11-19!) We find out something wonderful upon our return good brother!! WE know how to stay thankful!!( 2 thess 5:18!!) blessing bro and thanks for the question!
Many hear the word mercy,or hear the words have mercy on this person.Mercy? Do you know just how much love it even takes to have any mercy?? Indeed we do brother!!TONS! And we find we never have any to give another, until we fully understand just how much mercy Jesus has upon each one of us! Then we have enough to give!( john 13:34)
Jesus love produces the same amount of his own mercy! As well as compassion,which brings HOPE! For if our Jesus did not believe in his own hope, we could have no mercy or love!( rom 15:13) To against, all odds still be for you, even when we ourselves go against our very self! ( rom 8:31) Backslide starts, where all sin begins brother,in our very mind, hence why it is so very important to renew our minds and set out minds!!( rom 12:1-2 and Col 3:2) So like the prodigal son we return back to our still loving Father!( luke 15:11-32) Always being so grateful and thankful!!( luke 17:11-19!) We find out something wonderful upon our return good brother!! WE know how to stay thankful!!( 2 thess 5:18!!) blessing bro and thanks for the question!
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"...when I want to do good, evil is right there with me." (Ro 7:21)
It seems to me that temptation is always with us and when we slip, one might say we have backslidden temporarily but, if the Spirit is truly in us daily the slide will not be permanent.
SLE
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Of course it is up to you and how you read the Bible.
For me it is all about Christ finished work at the cross and his resurrection. I feel that all of scripture leads this way from Genesis to Revelations.
Without quoting a single verse, just listen to your heart on this. I will attempt not to analyze anything, just state what I see going on here:
- God handed down a legalistic system to reveal man's sin and bring them closer to God.
- Through God's timing he states that this law system is holy and righteous, man is not and now this sytem is obsolete.
- Through the gospel: the life, death, burial and resurrection of his son, God gives a new covenant where by, he loves us so much, he provides a system that is as perfect as he is, a salvation by grace where he evens provides our on measure of faith.Our salvation is all of him and none of us, less we could foul it up somehow.
DHC
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Perhaps you should have said RJ, we are reliant on the Holy Spirit to disclose the full revelation
of Jesus Christ. To be established in Christ and to see the fullness and fulfillment of Jesus Christ.
Agree with you on this point RJ, with the addition of the Holy Spirit and the gifts and ministry thereof.
The New Testament is Jesus Christ and the New Covenant culminating in His Church.
Pray and seek the Christ and His revelation which fills the heart and renews the mind at all
levels. It is the deeper conviction of the Holy Spirit within the heart. That confirms that we are
heirs of the eternal kingdom of God.
Yes, the legalism of the law condemns the flesh but the Spirit grants life and life that is eternal.
Yes again, the old covenant has passed and all things are new in Christ. We have the liberty that
Christ has granted, not to live in the flesh but to gain the full righteousness of Christ in the Spirit.
More importantly the Holy Spirit provides us with the first fruits of love itself. This love is God's
love for us and no longer carries the condemnation that the law executed. Faith and love.
You gain honors for this part of your reply RJ, no addition required.
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...Choose you this day who you will serve....Joshua 24:15
Greetings to all on this thread
Having read through this thread,I would like to answer in a very personal, practical way, that will hopefully back up some of the scriptures you have all been discussing here.
I was saved as a child and went on happy and 'committed' in my Christian life for many years.
However, in my 20's I drifted away into the world in a big way getting involved in just about everything that I shouldn't.
During that time of being backslidden, I may have been 'partying' and indulging in worldly pleasure.....but I was never truly happy, I experienced a little voice constantly whispering to my heart to return to the Lord. Bible verses and hymns would spring into my mind reminding me of my salvation or the Lord who loved me so. I believe that voice and those prompts were the beautiful working of the Holy Spirit convicting me that I was in the wrong place and gently wooing me to return to Him who had saved my soul. But I was stubborn and neglected that voice, knowing I was wrong in doing so.
Then came a life/death situation where I had to make a decision.....and in that moment of danger the words "choose you this day whom ye will serve" slammed into my heart(Joshua 24:15). That was the turning point for me....and I praise the Lord for His continual prompting and conviction in my life.
Can a Christian backslide?.....yes definately I did in the most terrible way
Can a Christian be happy backsliding?.....no not in my experience....Praise the Lord for that and for the continual tender prompting of the Spirit
But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him
Luke 15:20
Greetings to all on this thread
Having read through this thread,I would like to answer in a very personal, practical way, that will hopefully back up some of the scriptures you have all been discussing here.
I was saved as a child and went on happy and 'committed' in my Christian life for many years.
However, in my 20's I drifted away into the world in a big way getting involved in just about everything that I shouldn't.
During that time of being backslidden, I may have been 'partying' and indulging in worldly pleasure.....but I was never truly happy, I experienced a little voice constantly whispering to my heart to return to the Lord. Bible verses and hymns would spring into my mind reminding me of my salvation or the Lord who loved me so. I believe that voice and those prompts were the beautiful working of the Holy Spirit convicting me that I was in the wrong place and gently wooing me to return to Him who had saved my soul. But I was stubborn and neglected that voice, knowing I was wrong in doing so.
Then came a life/death situation where I had to make a decision.....and in that moment of danger the words "choose you this day whom ye will serve" slammed into my heart(Joshua 24:15). That was the turning point for me....and I praise the Lord for His continual prompting and conviction in my life.
Can a Christian backslide?.....yes definately I did in the most terrible way
Can a Christian be happy backsliding?.....no not in my experience....Praise the Lord for that and for the continual tender prompting of the Spirit
But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him
Luke 15:20
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DHC
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Hello Fragrant Grace.
A powerful testimony of the Lord's refusal to let you slide even further. I love to read these
testimonies of God's refusal to allow his children to wander too far. That love God has for
you Fragrant Grace is an eternal love, full of mercy and reconciliation.
This testimony is also a mirror image of the testimony of Brighthouse, the other prodigal son.
Though the question remains Fragrant Grace, would your slide have continued into pure unbelief?
It is my belief at the current time, that many do backslide and continue to resist and eventually
oppose Jesus Christ unfortunately. How do you see this process as you have experienced
it first hand. Could you have resisted further?
RJ
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Matthew 12:31-32, Romans 1:28, Ephesians 4:19 and 1 Timothy 4:2
- The above scriptures are of whom you are not and was impossible for you to have become. Once in you, God promises to never leave...how do you fall away from a God like that? On the other hand, the people described in these verse have never had Christ in them; their conscience is seared, heart is hardened and mind have become reprobate and calloused; they may indeed have fallen away.
- Once sealed with the spirit, back-slide perhaps but "fall away" to the callouseness of Apostsay, never!
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@DHC @RJ
Thank you both for your replies
Forgive me for writing about myself more here, it is just a little easier to explain my thoughts that way
I think my honest answer would be to say I don't know whether I would have continued into pure unbelief
There was never even a moment in the darkest and worst days of backsliding when I didn't believe (Thank God)
Disbelief just didn't happen....just a horrible sense of rebellion and being away from God
And the dear Lord was always there with me He didn't forsake me.
At that crunch life and death moment when I was faced with the verse Choose you this day who you will serve, I have often wondered what may have happened had | ignored what I was this seemingly final call from the Lord.....Would I have just died (it was a physically real situation) or would the beautiful striving of the Spirit have just stopped?
I knew a man who appeared to be a lovely, Christian....committed, devoted, sincere, consecrated (every word you might think of)
Many were surprised when he backslid and turned away from the Lord
Now he is an openly "Jesus hating" and mocking atheist, denying with extreme hatred everything he once proclaimed to believe
Only the Lord can judge....but I do often wonder was he ever truly saved or has he just backslidden to a point of no return where his heart is cold and hardened?
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