What is the resurrection?

[norapture]

OK RJ let's address the four things in your last post. You say it was clearly false for me to say that. But in your first reply to my question
your first sentence says.
Jesus appeared to the disciples in his resurrected , changed or new body.
Now this above is a statement , you made.
So to make sure what kind of body
(A)spiritual = not flesh and blood , or natural but a heavenly body.
(B) A new flesh body , that was change from the old body to a new body , but still flesh and bone a natraul body.
(C) The same body that was buried,
His same flesh that he was crucified in .

 

[RJ]

OK RJ let's address the four things in your last post. You say it was clearly false for me to say that. But in your first reply to my question
your first sentence says.
Jesus appeared to the disciples in his resurrected , changed or new body.
Now this above is a statement , you made.
So to make sure what kind of body
(A)spiritual = not flesh and blood , or natural but a heavenly body.
(B) A new flesh body , that was change from the old body to a new body , but still flesh and bone a natraul body.
(C) The same body that was buried,
His same flesh that he was crucified in .

Your a mighty hard person to understand the direction in which you are going.

• I will go by what scripture says. I will repeat the verse I originally gave you: Luke 24: 39 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see;(AL) a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
• I never said:

A)spiritual = not flesh and blood , or natural but a heavenly body.
(B) A new flesh body , that was change from the old body to a new body , but still flesh and bone a natraul body.
(C) The same body that was buried,
His same flesh that he was crucified in .

So, don't falsely insinuate that I said any of the above. I repeat, what does the Bible say?
I ask you 2 questions and we all are interested in what you have to say:

1. In the above verse , is this not what Jesus said, himself, direct and verbatum, to the Disciples recently after his resurrection?
2. How do you interpret this verse where he, Jesus, says he had flesh and bones?

 

[norapture]

RJ I didn't say you said A,B,or C that was a question. which one of the three do you believe?

What I said you said was above those statements.

You said in the first reply to me this.
Jesus appeared to the desciple's
In his resurrected, changed or new body. Then you quoted Luke 24:39


OK Luke24:39 Jesus is telling his disciples that he is flesh and bone , and I believe its the same flesh that was buried the very same body.
Does this answer your question?

So what do you believe the A,B, or C statements .

 

[RJ]

RJ I didn't say you said A,B,or C that was a question. which one of the three do you believe?

What I said you said was above those statements.

You said in the first reply to me this.
Jesus appeared to the desciple's
In his resurrected, changed or new body. Then you quoted Luke 24:39


OK Luke24:39 Jesus is telling his disciples that he is flesh and bone , and I believe its the same flesh that was buried the very same body.
Does this answer your question?

So what do you believe the A,B, or C statements .

• (A)spiritual = not flesh and blood , or natural but a heavenly body. Both a Spiritual Body and a Heavenly Body.
• (B) A new flesh body , that was change from the old body to a new body , but still flesh and bone a natraul body Jesus said his was a flesh and bone body so, I agree with all satements except a natural body. There is nothing in scripture that says it is a natural body. His body looked the same but no way it was natural as before. How does a natural body have holes in the hands and feet and apparently the ability to walk through walls and just appear throught locked doors.
• (C) The same body that was buried, His same flesh that he was crucified in . Who knows for sure how but the same body crucified and burried. Just like (Jesus always showed the way) our bodies will be, Jesus mortal body was buried perishable but raised perishable, a combination of original body combined with his spirit to form a new spiritual body, a body that can apparently go between the physical and spiritual realms with ease.
• Jesus was resurrected and so will we...both the same; 1 Corinthians 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
• Not the same, Jesus buried body not the same as his new resurrected body. 1 Corinthians 15:40 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
• Again: 1 Corinthians 15: 44-46 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
  46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual,
  
  
  Although we do not know exactly what our new bodies will be like, we know that they will be like Jesus. 1 John 3:2-3
  Our new bodies will be like Christ's glorious body. Philippians 3: 20-21, Romans 8: 28-30, Romans 6: 5-8, 1 Corinthians 15:49.
• With all the above verses in mind, please show me where you come up with your ideas!
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Travis]

OK Luke24:39 Jesus is telling his disciples that he is flesh and bone , and I believe its the same flesh that was buried the very same body.
Does this answer your question?

Hey norapture,

I agree that Jesus was in the same body after his resurrection as he was before the resurrection, in a sense at least. But, I also think that this was his 'new' body, or spiritual body, he was just still veiling his glory to a large extent.

When the "rapture" happens, it says that those who remain will be changed/transformed.

ἀλλάσσω
allassō
To change, to exchange one thing for another, to transform

We aren't going to get completely and totally different bodies, but the bodies we had on earth will be transformed into new bodies, like Jesus's current body. I don't think Jesus has blood running through his veins. I don't think the angels who looked like men in Genesis 18 had blood running through their veins either. I think they had spiritual bodies. But, they could eat food and drink water just like Jesus did after his resurection. The bodies they were in do not perish though, like the bodies we have right now, that's one big difference for sure. Plus there is no sin nature in them, our future bodies won't have a sin nature. Jesus definitely didn't have a sin nature ever though.

So, in one sense I don't think Jesus got a completely 'new' body, but I think his body was no longer perishable and weak like it had been before his death. So something is/was different.

That's my thoughts,

Travis

 

[norapture]

RJ I have question the scripture says he had holes in his hands and feet if this is not the same body why was the holes still in him even his side being pierced ?

 

[RJ]

RJ I have question the scripture says he had holes in his hands and feet if this is not the same body why was the holes still in him even his side being pierced ?

Sure, I never said that it was not the same body, especially in terms of appearance. I said it was a new (changed) body, which you misunderstood or disagree with. I tried to explain that Jesus body was different and he had to reassure the Disciples not to worry, Apparently from scripture, they thought he was a Ghost and Jesus appeased their fears when he said: " how can a Ghost have flesh and bone". I find it a mystery that Jesus didn't mention blood as in the common term flesh and blood! Jesus was in the physical realm with the Disciples, yet there was no mentioning of blood coming out his open wounds!
Like Jesus, we will all have a resurrected body that in appeareance is very familiar with the looks of the original physical body How else would we recognize everyone?THank God that Jesus has shown us the way! But that is where the similarity probably ends. The new spiritual body, though looks in appearance as the same and recognizable to others. it is a body that is suited for the spiritual realm and the new world that God will create. That's why we all have a New Body, raised imperishable, it seems so obvious to me and what a wonderful plan for us all! Only our God could make this work!!!

 

[norapture]

RJ you contradict yourself in your first 2 sentence.
You say you never said it wasn't the same body especially in terms of appearance.
Then you say that you said it was a new ( change) body

I don't know if you know this , but
If its new or change .
Then its not the same body

 

[norapture]

RJ you say he had a new body, that look almost just like his body he was crucified in with the holes in his hands and feet.
Then you say we will have a body like he does.
So I guess for someone who got shot in the head and killed. I assume they would still have that hole in their new body. Sense you say are body will be the same kind he has.

But I guess you didn't see where Jesus said a spirit HATH NOT flesh and bone. So he wasn't spirit.

I know you didn't say he was spirit !

But you said our body's would be like his now in 1 Cor15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Unless you don't thing natural body is a flesh body .

Or maybe you think a spiritual body has flesh.
1Cor.15:50 Now this I say, breathen, that FLESH and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God;neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So no we won't be a fleshly body but spiritual body.

But Christ was flesh and not a spirit.

Read Acts 2:22-36 and you tell me how you interrupt these verse . Then tell me his flesh didn't rise.

And far as him entering the room with the door shut.
Read Luke4:28-30
St John 8:59

He walk through the midst (middle) of them yet they didn't see him.

Why would he need a new or changed body he never sinned?
He changed water to wine, made the blind to see, death to hear, lame to walk, walk on water, calm the storms, and many more things in the body he got crucified in. So why would he need a new or change body ? What because he walked through walls or stood with holes in his hands and feet . This was God in the flesh Jesus Christ

Oh and for the blood part he shed it on calvery for you and me and to as many as will believe so no he wasn't bleeding but his flesh and bone was still there but no blood .

 

[RJ]

RJ you contradict yourself in your first 2 sentence.
You say you never said it wasn't the same body especially in terms of appearance.
Then you say that you said it was a new ( change) body

I don't know if you know this , but
If its new or change .
Then its not the same body

You asked: RJ I have question the scripture says he had holes in his hands and feet if this is not the same body why was the holes still in him even his side being pierced ?

I answered that request quite adequately. But, of course, you still remain to be with out a clue and all you want is an argument because you are with out truth. <!-- -->

 

[RJ]

RJ you say he had a new body, that look almost just like his body he was crucified in with the holes in his hands and feet.
Then you say we will have a body like he does.
So I guess for someone who got shot in the head and killed. I assume they would still have that hole in their new body. Sense you say are body will be the same kind he has.

But I guess you didn't see where Jesus said a spirit HATH NOT flesh and bone. So he wasn't spirit.

I know you didn't say he was spirit !

But you said our body's would be like his now in 1 Cor15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Unless you don't thing natural body is a flesh body .

Or maybe you think a spiritual body has flesh.
1Cor.15:50 Now this I say, breathen, that FLESH and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God;neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So no we won't be a fleshly body but spiritual body.

But Christ was flesh and not a spirit.

Read Acts 2:22-36 and you tell me how you interrupt these verse . Then tell me his flesh didn't rise.

And far as him entering the room with the door shut.
Read Luke4:28-30
St John 8:59

He walk through the midst (middle) of them yet they didn't see him.

Why would he need a new or changed body he never sinned?
He changed water to wine, made the blind to see, death to hear, lame to walk, walk on water, calm the storms, and many more things in the body he got crucified in. So why would he need a new or change body ? What because he walked through walls or stood with holes in his hands and feet . This was God in the flesh Jesus Christ

Oh and for the blood part he shed it on calvery for you and me and to as many as will believe so no he wasn't bleeding but his flesh and bone was still there but no blood .

I always thought you were just a big practicle joker....trying to see if someone really knew the truth. But, I appologize for that, I now know that you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face...apparently from the discussions with others, I am not the only one who feels this way. I pray that it does slap you in the face before it is too late!

 

[norapture]

RJ you say I remain without a clue then you say I want to argue because I am without truth .
But I guess you will denie you said that to.
But the truth is nowhere in scripture does his word say Jesus was in a new or change body.
But that is what you seem to believe and say.
So why would you say I'm without truth, when you are the one who is adding to the scripture, to say his body was new, or change without it saying that.
Because you read it into the scripture without it being in it.
When Gods word plainly tells that his body would not see corruption, that it would rise after 3 days.
And I don't believe you read
Act2:22-36 that is pretty clear that the same body of Jesus got out of the grave, that went in the grave.
So you can say what you want about me it will not change the truth . Cause just like most in his word they also said things about Jesus even said he had a devil

 

[RJ]

RJ you say I remain without a clue then you say I want to argue because I am without truth .
But I guess you will denie you said that to.
But the truth is nowhere in scripture does his word say Jesus was in a new or change body.
But that is what you seem to believe and say.
So why would you say I'm without truth, when you are the one who is adding to the scripture, to say his body was new, or change without it saying that.
Because you read it into the scripture without it being in it.
When Gods word plainly tells that his body would not see corruption, that it would rise after 3 days.
And I don't believe you read
Act2:22-36 that is pretty clear that the same body of Jesus got out of the grave, that went in the grave.
So you can say what you want about me it will not change the truth . Cause just like most in his word they also said things about Jesus even said he had a devil

• Look, no one I have ever met spiritually, except you, thinks (1) The Bible contaisn word-for-word what we are to know;that is why through out scripture we are to function on primarily faith. We also have a brain and the God given power to reason above all creatures, so we use that power.
• norapture, this isn't our first dance. No matter what the subject, rapture, 2nd coming or resurrection, we differ completely. In fact, I don't see anything that we agree on and, I also see others here at TJ who disagree with you. I can't speak for them but I am done with you on this thread.

 

[norapture]

RJ so no one you ever met spiritually. Sounds like to me you are following men if you are worried about what they thing, comparing one another with each other.

I will just let the Lord teach me and leed me.

OK function primary on faith.
That faith should be in scripture not what some man tells you.
What is written is written and can not be broken.
So stop adding to it , because we know what his word says about adding to it.

Yes we have a brain but that is caranal and to be caranal minded is deaf.

The God giving power you are taking about, all men have that power.
But not all men have the Spirit of God, but I speak this to your shame.

And you are right we don't agree because you hold your false doctrine of men.
And I don't have to agree with you as long as I agree with Jesus Christ my Lord and teacher.
I will stay with scripture you follow who you want .
And as far as me getting slapped we shall see whom the Lord shall slap.

 

[RJ]

RJ so no one you ever met spiritually. Sounds like to me you are following men if you are worried about what they thing, comparing one another with each other.

I will just let the Lord teach me and leed me.

OK function primary on faith.
That faith should be in scripture not what some man tells you.
What is written is written and can not be broken.
So stop adding to it , because we know what his word says about adding to it.

Yes we have a brain but that is caranal and to be caranal minded is deaf.

The God giving power you are taking about, all men have that power.
But not all men have the Spirit of God, but I speak this to your shame.

And you are right we don't agree because you hold your false doctrine of men.
And I don't have to agree with you as long as I agree with Jesus Christ my Lord and teacher.
I will stay with scripture you follow who you want .
And as far as me getting slapped we shall see whom the Lord shall slap.

I shouldn't let it but your dishonesty draws me back in to the conversation. I have given you ample scripture support and my own interpretation, not of men that you falsely claim. You have every right to disagree but when you have no answer, the only thing you have left toward the end of our conversations and to support yourself, as usual, is a false narrative and, sadly, that could not be of Jesus Christ

 

[B-A-C]

So the question remains... is the resurrection only your spirit (which has been "asleep")
Or is it somehow the body also... or first the spirit and then the body.
Does the physical body really ever go to heaven?

 

[rag4aCrown]

so the body does not return to the dirt from which it came??? I believe God's Word on this.
This shouldn't even be something for ya'll to debate about... Do you know HIM? the Way, the Truth, and the Life; or not???

The spirit returns to God, from which it came; and the body returns to the earth from which it came.
GLORY LORD

 

[RJ]

So the question remains... is the resurrection only your spirit (which has been "asleep")
Or is it somehow the body also... or first the spirit and then the body.
Does the physical body really ever go to heaven?[/QU

So the question remains... is the resurrection only your spirit (which has been "asleep")
Or is it somehow the body also... or first the spirit and then the body.
Does the physical body really ever go to heaven?

There remains no question:

• If you die before Christ gathers his church, you body returns to dust and your spirit goes to heaven.
• What follows next is a matter of opinion when because actually once in the spirit realm, everything that happens in the future physical world has already happened.

• But basically, When Jesus returns to the physical world to gather his church, the Saints who have spiritually gone to heaven already, their bodies ( how who knows) rise first and join their spirit; the result is the creation of the "Heavenly Body". next the then living Christian will be change in a blink of an eye into their heavenly body, this is referred not actually dying but changing instantly.
• In either case, the new body is incorruptible and can exist spiritually ( how who knows)..
• All of this is scriptural, including what Jesus looked like in his new heavenly body!

 

[B-A-C]

so the body does not return to the dirt from which it came??? I believe God's Word on this.

I personally believe it does... but this causes problems for those who believe that we go to heaven immediately when we die.

Ecc 12:7; then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

So it the body returns to the earth, the only thing left is the spirit (soul).
Some believe the spirit and soul to be two different things, but I believe them to be the same thing.

In 2 Cor 5:6-8; Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

However, we have several other verses that say we sleep.
John 11:11; Acts 7:60; Acts 13:36; 1 Cor 15:6; 1 Cor 15:18; 1 Thess 4:13-15; 2 Pet 3:4; etc...

And that we will rise on the last day.
John 6:40; John 6:44; John 6:54; John 11:24; John 5:28-29;

Of course it's easy to reconcile 2 Cor 5:6; if we say while we are "asleep" we are still with the body.

Some will say, what about the bodies that have decayed, or destroyed entirely by fire, or in some
other catastrophic way. I'm not sure where the soul rests in this case, but one thing is for sure,
if it is only the body that gets resurrected.. then there is no resurrection for those people.

(I suppose it's possible the body gets re-constructed miraculously in some way).

However... that leads us back to ...

1 Cor 15:35; But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?"
1 Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;
1 Cor 15:37; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1 Cor 15:38; But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
1 Cor 15:39; All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.
1 Cor 15:40; There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.
1 Cor 15:41; There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
1 Cor 15:42; So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1 Cor 15:43; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1 Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1 Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1 Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1 Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1 Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Cor 15:50; Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1 Cor 15:51; Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1 Cor 15:52; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Cor 15:53; For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

So if the perishable cannot inherit heaven, if appears only our new bodies can go there.
But we aren't given our new bodies until the resurrection.

 

[Curtis]

I thought Jesus said, "I am the resurrection, and the life" Who died with Christ on the cross? We did! When God raised up Jesus from the dead did he not also raise us up also?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

How can you be in Christ and not be where he is now?

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

What does the word "dead" mean? It means corpse, or body.
What exactly are waiting to know? The words, "to wit" means "to know". We are waiting to know the redemption of our body.

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.