Hyper Grace

[Thiscrosshurts]

"..They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Revelation 20:10)

Be honest with yourself Taylor,would you be disappointed if he could pull it off?
I don't need a response but you owe yourself one.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Brother please thoughtfully reread where I started.Take your time
I never claim any conclusion just that I don't condemn those I pray for and believe.
I pray God's will be done in everyone's life and the father knows each of their names just like he knew yours.
It is my hope that God has a way,he's clever you know.

Give me names-each and every one that is going,what are their names.
They are not a thing called sinners or people,each one has a name and God Knows every name.

TCH Hi,
Hey sorry if the reply came across to you wrongly. I was just maken a point - as to chage what we all say and think from many missing the mark to many being brought into the kingdom. Not for you me or taylor but for those who are young in the Lord or not much growth so as to not give them the wrong idea as to ........oh well God says many will burn so what does it matter if I share or not.

To you or me or taylor in this conversation we pretty much know what each other is saying........but to a new oncomer. some of what had been said could lead them the wrong way......Just wanted to change the words coming out of our fingers here. lol
sorry if that was not how it sounded.
Blessings TCH
Jim

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Be honest with yourself Taylor,would you be disappointed if he could pull it off?
I don't need a response but you owe yourself one.

would I be disappointed if God lied to us?
yes.
But He cannot tell a lie. And so i believe Him when He says "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever"

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Brother please thoughtfully reread where I started.Take your time
I never claim any conclusion just that I don't condemn those I pray for and believe.
I pray God's will be done in everyone's life and the father knows each of their names just like he knew yours.
It is my hope that God has a way,he's clever you know.

Give me names-each and every one that is going,what are their names.
They are not a thing called sinners or people,each one has a name and God Knows every name.

Satan, Jezebel, probably Judas...

those are the only people I can think of at the moment.

I do not condemn those I pray for. I don't condemn anyone.
God is the one who judges.
And He has told us that He will send some people to burn in Hell forever.
So I believe Him.
And I do not struggle against Him.
Nor do I pray, hoping that He is liar.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

And He has told us that He will send some people to burn in Hell forever.

Do you have to seem to enjoy that so much?

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Do you have to seem to enjoy that so much?

I do not enjoy the fact that people will be burning in hell forever.
If I did, I would not evangelize. I would not pray. But I do both.
And, honestly, if your like most Christians, then I pray and evangelize a lot more than you do!

Since you accuse me of enjoying evil..

Let me ask you,
why do you hope that God turns out to be liar?

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

I do not sit around hoping that God lied to us, hoping that God will turn out to be "better" than what Jesus has revealed to us, and I do not resist God's promises.
I completely trust God, and all of His judgements. I know for a fact that He has a very good reason for everything that He does.
I also know that we humans are absolutely, completely, and totally evil.. and we all deserve to burn in hell forever.
It is only by the sweet, loving, merciful grace of God that some of will escape the eternal hell that we all deserve.
That is enough for me. I have no qualms with God exercising His righteous judgement on the rest of humanity.
I pray for people, I evangelize, I love people, I feed and clothe the homeless, I have dedicated my life to Ministry.
My entire being is centered around helping people know Christ.
And I trust His Word.

So when God says ""They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" I believe Him.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Let me ask you,
why do you hope that God turns out to be liar?

I'm a Dad
I would
Or I might figure out a way to save them and by being crafty with words figure out who really loves my children

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

You are comparing earthly, human, sinful relationships to a Heavenly, Divine, Righteous God.
Your experience of father-hood is infinitely separated from God's experience as Creator.
It would be good for you to believe the scriptures as they are plainly written.
And allow the truth of eternal Hell propel you to evangelism.
After all, if all are saved anyways, then there is no real reason to bother with evangelizing.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

I'm a Dad
I would
Or I might figure out a way to save them and by being crafty with words figure out who really loves my children

God already knows whats in the heart of every man.
God does not need to be crafty with words.
God is not deceptive, He is not in the shadows.
God is light, and there is no darkness in Him.
His word is not spoken by a serpent, but is declared through the lips of angels.
When God says "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever", He is not lying, or deceiving, or being crafty with words.
God is telling you the truth, and you are commanded to believe Him.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

After all, if all are saved anyways, then there is no real reason to bother with evangelizing.

I never said or even implied that.
I just said He's crafty don't count out love man,it can surprise you.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

When God says "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever", He is not lying, or deceiving, or being crafty with words.

Examine this verse carefully,thoughtfully.
Eternity= no beginning and no end ,always was and always will be.
It does not mean from now on.

Sequence of events requires time and space to play out.
If there is a beginning there must be an end.

You can't begin anything eternal.
You can't end anything eternal.

The word proceeded out from eternity and created a beginning.
The alpha and omega breached the eternal now/always and created a beginning.
The point of this breach is the beginning of difference.
Time is relative to the difference of other factors so it is not constant throughout the universe.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The word never left heaven but the word he spoke did and the word was manifest in the new environment that could produce change.
Then the word he spoke returned to him.
The word created everything that "is".
Day and night is difference and can only exist outside eternity.
Being outside eternity is being separated from God who is eternal.

"Now" is an eternal word because it has no beginning,no end,always was and always will be.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
It was now 2000 years ago and it's now still because now has no beginning and no end.
If someone does not have Jesus "Now" then they are separated from God eternally right now.
The result of living in time causes the missing of the mark or sin.
If you Have Jesus "now" you have eternal life.
If you don't have him "now" you are already suffering eternal darkness,blackness forever..

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Thiscrosshurts..

slow down.

stop looking for hidden meanings.

yes, eternal things can have a beginning.

I was born. I had a beginning. And I have eternal life.

Satan was created. he had a beginning. and he will spend an eternity burning in hell.

again, i know your trying to love, but what your doing is actually an affront to God.

 

[Travis]

I never said or even implied that.
I just said He's crafty don't count out love man,it can surprise you.

I don't think I've ever heard the Lord described as "crafty" before. I have heard of someone else being referred to as being crafty though.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

stop looking for hidden meanings.

It's in the new nature,I came to the kingdom with a knowledge of quantum science and the bible seemed to make sense
when looked at from a quantum outlook.
I tried all the doctrines and they all have some truth and some of something else.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Job 28:3 “Man puts an end to darkness,
And to the farthest limit he searches out
The rock in gloom and deep shadow.

Job 28 :4 “He sinks a shaft far from habitation,
Forgotten by the foot;
They hang and swing to and fro far from men.

I'm a miner for the heart of God and I'm working on a love vien that's rich.

yes, eternal things can have a beginning.

In order to understand each other we have to agree on word usage.
I am using the dictionary,if you have a different take on the word it would be pointless to try to reason with each other,we are just
babbling,only the ones who use my definition will understand me and only the ones who use your definition will understand you and we won't learn a thing.
It takes about 5 years to thoroughly know your way around scripture after that you can learn doctrines of men and history in the next five.
What do you study after fifteen or twenty years?
I've been doing this and enjoying it for 28 years so I don't feel like I'm going very fast at all.

again, i know your trying to love, but what your doing is actually an affront to God.

That's one opinion,I'm sure there are others.

Satan was created. he had a beginning. and he will spend an eternity burning in hell.

Did you mean the lake of fire?
.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

In Old Testament times God had only revealed a foreshadow of things to come.

Now we actually have the Truth.

Jesus Christ is the one who taught us about eternal Hell.

It is not some archaic old testament "stone sinners", "dont eat bacon", type of thing that has passed away now that grace has appeared,

No, eternal Hell came about when Jesus Christ said "it is finished", which purchased the resurrection for us.

The resurrection, some to eternal life and some to eternal hell. Both are never ending.

We can go back and forth forever on this issue. But, really, I have already showed you some scriptures which make this very clear.

Have you heard about the rich man and lazarus? Do you now know that they will be tormented forever and ever? There is no escaping hell. after you have died, there is no second chance. your fate is sealed.

sorry friend, but your a heretic.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I don't think I've ever heard the Lord described as "crafty" before. I have heard of someone else being referred to as being crafty though.

Superior Craftsmen are crafty.
Their was a superior craftsman who crafted a lie so well most of the world is still stuck in it yes.
But Jesus was a carpenter and a master carpenter is definitely craftsman.
The liar can only copy and cannot do anything original,I am taking back the word from darkness.
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness,rather reprove them in the light.

Try to listen to what I mean,not so much what I say.
Sometimes just to get a responce I word things a little different just to see if anyone is paying attention.
I knew I would get a bite with"crafty"

I have a feeling you knew what I meant anyway.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The resurrection, some to eternal life and some to eternal hell. Both are never ending.

I agree completely,but I look at the definition of the word eternal and it doesn't any sense.
No beginning no end.The only way that makes any sense is by seeing the eternal now.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
If you have a better explanation of what "Now is" means I want to hear it because I have prayed and searched for years.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

…John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
John 5:25 Timeless truth I speak to you: The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live.
Hear,believe live eternally "now".
It's always now and it's always coming because whenever it comes it will still be now.
If I am seperated from now "now" I am in darkness for eternity.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
Dust to dust,Spirit back where it came from.
What about the soul?
Are you a soul or a spirit?
What is the definition of soul?

 

[Travis]

Superior Craftsmen are crafty.
Their was a superior craftsman who crafted a lie so well most of the world is still stuck in it yes.
But Jesus was a carpenter and a master carpenter is definitely craftsman.
The liar can only copy and cannot do anything original,I am taking back the word from darkness.
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness,rather reprove them in the light.

Try to listen to what I mean,not so much what I say.
Sometimes just to get a responce I word things a little different just to see if anyone is paying attention.
I knew I would get a bite with"crafty"

I have a feeling you knew what I meant anyway.

Words have connotation. That one has a pretty negative one.

That's all