with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

[Born Again 2004]

The final judgement hinges on it.

The final judgement will be whether Jesus is in you or not. He is the only one good...you are nothing with out him in You!

 

[Seth Hall]

PART ONE:

You:
not sure whear you got that Mosses wrote the law, God told him what to write

Me:
I got it from the Bible, Dave. And Yes, God did indeed ultimately tell Moses what to write. . .But this was done through angels. I got that from the Bible, too.

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. (Galatians 3:19)

Moses wrote the Law of Moses with His hand. This is the "handwriting in decrees" found in Colossians 2:14. He wrote what has been estimated to be 613 decrees in that Law (although I have heard this number is disputed).

How do I know Moses wrote the Book of the Law of Moses (or "the Torah")? Because The Bible said it:

“After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord (Deuteronomy 31:24-25).

I am not arguing the fact that it was ultimately God Who devised the Old Covenant. I am giving you a distinction between a certain Law that was handwritten by a man named Moses ("handwriting in decrees") and a certain Law that the LORD God wrote Himself with His Own Finger.

You:
The Mosaic Law was given specifically to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19; Leviticus 26:46; Romans 9:4). It was made up of three parts: the Ten Commandments, the ordinances, and the worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals (Exodus 20—40; Leviticus 1—7; 23).

Me:
Totally agree with you on this partner. The Mosaic Law made up the basis for the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was made specifically for Israel. I am not arguing that known fact. It was a carnal Covenant made for a people who were set apart according to the flesh. However, as you have mentioned, there is the distinction of the moral Law (i.e. the Decalogue; Law of Christ; Sexual immorality Laws) that still apply to every image of God today. For what good is an image of God if it does not reflect God's image? This is for this reason that we are being Judged. For Fearing God and thus keeping God's commands is the sole duty of all of humanity (Ecc. 12:13), not just Jews. Just as the Sabbath--for instance--was made for all of mankind (Mark 2:27), not just the Jews. Paul makes the distinction between moral and ceremonial; spiritual and carnal, by saying "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts."--(1 Cor. 7:19) He then parallels this to "the New Creature" in Galatians 6:15 ("Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation."). Hinting that the New Creature is a creature that keeps God's commands just as Christ did.

People did not get stoned for transgressing ceremonial Laws (including High Sabbaths). Yet God took His Sabbath (which is apparently called ceremonial) very seriously as we see in Scripture. Obviously, He must think it is moral. If the Author of morality has people killed for transgressing it, then who can say "you are doing wrong (Job 36:23)"? Who has prescribed His way for Him? I can give you an abundant amount of reasons why the Sabbath is the most moral command in the Decalogue. But I will just give this: If one can keep an entire day holy and sinless through the Holy Spirit, then this gives you a model to walk blamelessly every day. . .and thus be holy and blameless. For Christ is only coming back for a church without spot or blemish. Is this a lie?

We keep one day holy so that we might learn to be holy every day. And yet it does indeed matter which day we do this on because it is a matter of obedience to the Almighty and Sovereign Lord. God is not a man that He should change His mind, Dave. For this, I am very thankful. For the Sabbath was made for man.

You:
(1) Reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).

Me:
I agree and yet disagree. The Decalogue and the Law of Christ is indeed what revealed God's Character and they were the base of the Mosaic Law, but the Mosaic Law as a whole does not reveal God's character. It reveals how sinful humans could attempt to make it back to a holy God without a savior. Only the moral Law reveals God character. For God is Love. Love does its neighbor no harm. Therefore Love is a matter of morality. Again, the moral Law is what revealed God's Character, friend. That is why the tables of stone were called "the Testimony." For they are the Testimony of God's Righteous Character.

Carnal Laws do not reflect God's Character. Say for example (and I don't mean to be vulgar or disrespectful) but does God naturally have a physical *****? If He did, would it have to be circumcised? Does God indeed need food? So do food Laws represent His Character? Does God have a need to have animals sacrificed on His behalf? Did He sin in order to need that? The list goes on.

That carnal extension was just a guardian for Israel to follow until Christ came to fill that Covenant full. It gave Israelites a carnal way to attempt to get back in good standing with God in the best way that they could try. Yet the Law of God is Spiritual (invisible and preexistent, even far before it physically manifested on tables of Stone) and the flesh is not actually subject to it. This is why the Law of Moses failed miserably for the people who tried to follow it. It was a carnal extension of a spiritual Law. It would not work from the start.

Yet if that Law was added because of transgressions, what was it added to? Again, it was an extension of God's actual Law. One man wrote a carnal Law that was to be filled full by One Man in the Flesh (the Seed of Abraham). For if it was added because of transgressions, then only a lack of transgressions could have fulfilled it. God only wrote it for the Seed to fulfill, not seeds. A Covenant is an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified. It was only meant for one man. So once that man met those righteous requirements, the Covenant was over. Thus enabling Jesus to declare a New and better Covenant. He fulfilled the Mosaic Law in His Flesh and thus nailed it to the cross. Yet you can nail a letter to a cross, but you cannot nail two thick Tablets of stone to a cross, can you Dave? An Infinite God (who is Spirit) wrote a spiritual Law with His Own Finger so that an infinite amount of images of God might fill that Law full through none other than God's Own Infinite Spirit. Are you starting to see where I am coming from, friend?

And as if common sense doesn't show us that the Mosaic Law is actually carnal and not spiritual like God's Law (Romans 7:14), we have this verse:

being only with meats and drinks and ceremonial washings; carnal ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation. (Hebrews 9:10)

You:
(2) Set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all the other nations (Exodus 19:5).

Me:
Hit the nail on the head, buddy. Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly what food Laws, hair laws, clothing Laws, New moon feasts, annual festivals, and high Sabbaths did (Try telling that to a Hebrew Roots Movement assembly you are trying to evangelize lol).

You:
(3) Reveal the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19). Although the Law was good and holy (Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel. “No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20; cf. Acts 13:38–39).

Me:
Yes. The LAW OF MOSES revealed to us just how sinful we are. It is so tedious and massive that it shows that we are horrible sinners by nature. Seeing we needed that many Laws just to attempt to make up for our innumerable transgressions. But that verse is only in reference to the Law that was ADDED to the Law that was transgressed in order for the second one to be added to the first one in the first place! For where there is no Law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15). If the Law of God is Spiritual then that means it is eternal and was always there (2 Cor. 4:18). How can there be sin if there is nothing to define sin, Dave? Sin was there before the Law physically manifested, it just apparently was not charged to anyone's account (Romans 5:13).
By the Way, The covenant Law that was separated (consecrated) through the Ark of God's covenant. That is the specific Law that is holy. For it is set apart from the book of the Law.

Yes, I like how you quoted Romans 3:20. Now read it comprehensibly for what it is actually talking about: “No one will be [initially] justified in God's sight by the works of the law [of Moses]; rather, through the law [of Moses] we become conscious of our sin”

"For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." (Hebrews 10:4) That is precisely why the Law of Moses cannot justify you. Only the Blood of Christ can initially justify you. This is one of the two types of justification I mentioned. In order to be saved from sin, you must first be saved from your original sin, right? So through Christ we have initial justification through the cleansing of original sin. This does not justify us to keep sinning, as some teach to do ("Why not say--as some slanderously claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is just!"--Romans 3:8) Many use the Grace of God as a licence for lawlessness (Jude 1:4).

On the contrary, initial justification justifies us to inherit God's Holy Spirit and Follow the Perfect path of the King of Kings. One cannot say Jesus is Lord and not actually make Him Lord of their Life. That is called lying, Dave. There is a reason why the Gospel is called the Kingdom of God. There is a reason why believing in Jesus ultimately leads to salvation. True Belief results in conviction, and conviction results in works. For faith without works is dead, and our salvation is a salvation ready to be revealed in the last day [1 Peter 1:5]. Whose works? Our works? No, for that would mean we could boast in our dirty rags. We must keep His works (Rev. 22:14).

Now compare this to Romans 2:13: "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Now, why would Paul make a contradiction like this? and just a chapter earlier at that?

He must be making a point here, Dave. Now, this is the other type of justification I mentioned. Ultimate justification. Read it like this: "For it is not those who hear the [Covenant] law who are [ultimately] justified in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law [of God] who [ultimately] will be declared righteous [when it is all said and done; at the resurection]." How can one be righteous if they are not actually being righteous? God's Law is righteous and holy and good. How can one repent from sin if they have no regard for what God actually calls sin? Yet it is God's moral Law that defines sin (1 John 3:4). This Law is what we shall be judge by and it is called the Law of Liberty (James 2:12). Liberty from what? Sin, obviously.

"And now, Son of Man, say this to your people: 'The [past initial] righteousness of the [newly] righteous [that was gained through the acceptance of Christ] won't save them on the day of his transgression. The wickedness of the wicked won't keep them from remaining away when they're turning from their wickedness [repentance in accordance to what God calls sin], and no [declared] righteous person will keep on living by their [past] righteousness when they sin.' (Ezekiel 33:12)

So one cannot keep the Law on their own right. It is only through Christ that we can do this. Christ is the WAY to TRULY keeping His Law and thus not sinning, which results in LIFE (John 14:6; Proverbs 3:2; Matthew 19:17; Revelation 22:14 KJV; Revelation 14:12).

Yet if one tries to follow the carnal extension (Mosaic Law; Old Covenant) as a means to obey God's Spiritual Law, they are not abiding in the Vine. For Christ has not initially justified them. Even if they could somehow quit sinning on their own right, they would still have original sin condemning them. Yet if one is initially cleansed of original sin, but yet keeps on sinning then they shall not be saved from sin and death on the day of redemption. For those who have received a knowledge of the truth but yet keep sinning there is no more Grace, but only the fearful expectation of the fiery wrath of God. If they were going to Hell before for sinning, then how much more will they go to hell for holding Christ in contempt, by saying "You are not Lord. You cannot free me from sin."

“What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.


The second son is the one who was initially justified. He said "I will follow you Lord" but never actually followed the Lord. The first son at first said I will not. But later He accepted Christ and actually truly followed the Lord and did the will of the Father. Yet only those who do the anciently revealed will of the Father will enter the kingdom of heaven because their righteousness has surpassed that of the Pharisees (Matt. 7:21; Matt. 5:20). Why were these sinners entering the kingdom of God? Can the King rule over subjects that disobey His decrees? Is a monarchy an anarchy? Why does He say seek the Kingdom of God and God;s own righteousness? Is the way of righteousness idleness? Is backsliding and saying that we are hopeless sinners who are stuck in the flesh what is called righteousness? "Since a king's word is supreme, who can say to him, "What are you doing?" Those who obey His commands will not be punished. Those who are wise will find a time and a way to do what is right."--(Ecclesiastes 8:4-5)

Believing in Christ produces initial justification. Diligently obeying Christ as LORD God Almighty (the same that wrote the ten commandments--not nine commandments--with His own Finger, that is) produces ultimate justification. You have to be saved from past sin and then you have to stop sinning. Thus you are free from sin and saved from sin and death when the day of redemption (from sin and death) comes. You must deny yourself and endure the denial of sin unto the end to be saved. You cannot seek your own life to be saved. You still must experience mortal death for your past sin. But then at the resurrection, you will be redeemed from both sin and therefore death. That is why we shall be saved. Predestination comes through Grace. without that Grace the totality of salvation would be impossible. You cannot earn predestination if you were chosen before the foundation of the Earth. Therefore, ultimately, you are saved by Grace. But it is not Grace alone like Luther says, neither is it Faith alone ("You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."--James 2:24). So how are we ultimately saved then? By Grace through faith. Yet Faith without works is dead. Only Living and perfected faith is saving faith (read the book of James). Yet only Christ is the perfecter of our faith (read the book of Hebrews). So we are saved by Christ's works, not our own. Lest any man should boast. This is how we work out our salvation. Through submitting to God's Will so that He can work through us (see the book of Philippians). This is the exact opposite of grieving/quenching the Holy Spirit. The reason the sinners were entering the Sovereign Kingdom of God was because they were repenting in accordance to the Sovereign decrees of the Sovereign Lord through Jesus Christ: The Way to true righteousness.

"The righteous lead blameless lives; blessed are their children after them." (Proverbs 20:7)

So if we are declared righteous that means we must lead completely blameless lives (which is why we are commanded to be holy as God is Holy; why we are to be without spot or blemish; holy and blameless. Being unholy and full of fault is not holy and blameless, Dave)) in order to retain that initial righteousness.

(I will send PART TWO shortly)

 

[Seth Hall]

We won't get into (4) (5) AND (6) as they are not significant to what we are actually talking about.

You:
(7) Cause people, after Christ came, to see that they couldn’t keep the Law but needed to accept Christ as personal Savior, for He had fulfilled the Law in His life and paid the penalty for our breaking it in His death, burial, and bodily resurrection (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). The believer in Christ has the very righteousness of the Law fulfilled in him as he obeys the Holy Spirit who lives within him (Romans 8:4).

Me:
This is true for the Mosaic Law. Not the Covenant Law. No one can actually keep the tedious Law of Moses. Christ fulfilled it in His flesh. When we partake in the edifying of His flesh, the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses is beginning to be fulfilled IN us (Not BY us and definitely not FOR us) Now let me ask you, is the Holy Spirit ever going to coax one to disobey the Testimony of God's Character (the Decalogue)?

The Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Christ's flesh and thus nailed to the cross. "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless. (for the law of Moses made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God." (Hebrews 7:18-19)

Now that the Mosaic Law is starting to be fulfilled in us through communion, then when Christ comes back to resurrect the rest of His Body--the ekklesia that is truly without spot or blemish--then the Full Mosaic Law will be resurrected (see the prophets). For how can we truly say we imitated Christ if we don't also fulfill the OC? Yet we will have a glorified flesh so as to fulfill a carnal Law. Satan--the tempter--will also be locked away for 1000 years, so it will be a piece of cake. For now, Those of us in a spiritualized covenant must keep God's Spiritual Covenant Law through God's Own Spirit.
You do know that a covenant requires something on our part, right?

Covenant: an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

(Ecclesiastical) a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.

Do you even know what the New Covenant is?

Everything Moses said in the Old Covenant was a carnal picture of what was to come spiritually in the (re)New(ed) and better Covenant (Hebrews 3:5).

-God set a people apart according to the flesh to symbolize how He would later set aside a people (both Jew and Gentile) according to spirit. ("I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"--Hosea 2:23; "And in thy seed shall all the Gentiles of the earth be blessed because thou hast hearkened unto my voice."--Genesis 22:18)

-God wrote His Covenant Law on Tablets of stone which symbolized Him writing His Covenant Law on the tablet of our heart (Jeremiah 31:33).

-carnal circumcision foreshadowed circumcision of the heart (true repentance in accordance to what God calls sin) and the circumcision of Christ (putting of the flesh unto perfection through the baptism of the Holy Spirit) (Deuteronomy 30:6)

-ceremonial Laws like High Sabbaths, New Moon feasts, and Annual feasts foreshadowed better ceremonial Laws that remind God of His son. These are the one true Baptism, communion, and foot-washing. (Hosea 2:11)

-Food Laws, Hair Laws, and Clothing Laws outwardly set apart a people apart according to the flesh. Now we are set apart through Love, which is an action first. All people everywhere see the acts of true Love, thus setting us apart from the hatred of this world. Love comes through obeying God's Own Law (this includes keeping God's Sabbath set apart in every way which in turn sets us apart from the rest of the Sabbath-desecrating world) ("And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean FOR YOU [specifically]"--Leviticus 11:7).

-Priesthood Laws were replaced by Jesus, the High Priest of Melchizedek. We make up the Body of this priest so we are therefore a holy Priesthood (see Hebrews 7).

-Tabernacle Laws were replaced by God buying our living bodies as temples of the Living God (1 Cor. 6:19).

-corporal punishment Laws were replaced with mercy and forgiveness, For God has desired mercy, not sacrifice. (Hosea 6:6)

-burnt offerings were replaced By Christ's perfect sacrifice. He is the Lamb Of God. We must be without spot or blemish in order to make up the Body of this Lamb. If we are indeed a part of the Body of Christ, we must sacrifice our life to serve God and others diligently.

-mortal death for transgression of the Moral Law (not the ceremonial Law) usually ended in mortal death. This symbolized the eternal death that these sins invoke (Ezekiel 33:12; Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23).


The Old Covenant made nothing perfect, as it was weakened by the flesh. But the whole point of having God's Spirit (the same Spirit that Jesus used to fulfill the Old Covenant with) is to actually KEEP GOD'S LAW.

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. (Ezekiel 36:27)

Again, the Gospel is the kingdom of God. God has already made the precepts for obeying His Sovereignty very clear.
Why do you think the "Covenant Law" (10 commandments) is indeed called the Covenant Law? Do you actually even know what the New Covenant is? There is a reason why it is called a better covenant, my friend. Because we actually have God's Spirit to fulfill it. The other one could not be fulfilled because it was weakened by the flesh. Yet if we obey God's Covenant with us, we will eventually partake in the circumcision of Christ.

You:
The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

Actually, Paul said, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
Was Jesus sin His whole Life? No. He was sin on that faithful moment on the cross. So when you first accept Him, on that faithful moment you are righteous. For you have made the righteous decision to begin believing. That is initial righteousness. Yet that righteousness will not save you on the day that you transgress (Ezekiel 33:12). This is why we need repentance in accordance to the Law that defines our transgressions.

MIGHT infers a chance that you may or may not become the ultimate righteousness of God. This is why we HOPE in eternal Life. Because we have the promise of eternal Life if we fulfill God's Covenant. Yet HOPE infers that it may or may not happen. You cannot do unrighteousness and be called righteous. That is called attempting to make God a liar and saying that Christ cannot actually free you from sin.

Even if what you are saying is correct (and it is not) then by what mechanism would I have to say that one can no longer obey the ten commandments? Why on Earth would it be one or the other, Dave? If Salvation in and of itself truly came simple belief and if one was truly instantaneously saved and locked into salvation (which is NOT how salvation works), then why would one have to make the choice of just sitting in sin or choosing to diligently Follow the Sovereign Lord's commands? Why do make the Almighty out to be illogical like your unreasonable doctrines?

If God said, "It is not good to be partial to the wicked and so deprive the innocent of justice." (Proverbs 18:5) then why would you ever think that God would do this very same thing Himself on Judgement Day? He was angry and at enmity with us before for transgressing His character, but now He does not care? Is God illogical? Is He unreasonable like your human doctrines say He is? Will He partially allow one brand of sinner into Heaven just for having a gift of simple belief (in which they did nothing to obtain) and yet condemn another brand of sinner to hell? Must not everyone repent or they will surely perish (Luke 13:3), even eternally? "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?" (Ezekiel 18:23) Does God wink at your transgressions, Mr. Dave? I do not want to serve The "other Jesus" that you serve, sir.

"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does [like idolizing money, desecrating the Sabbath, misusing the LORD's set apart name, etc. etc. etc.], will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
(Ezekiel 18:24)

The purpose of the Covenant Law (since I was never talking about The Mosaic Law in full being essential in the first place) raises these Questions:

"Are you trusting in yourself to keep all of the 10 commandments all the time (which you cannot do)?" OR "Have you made the decision to actually imitate Christ which results in eventually having Christ circumcise the body of flesh and the desires thereof. Realizing that The Covenant Law cannot save on it's own right, but must be coupled with THE WAY."
For if the wages if the wages of sin is death, then obedience reaps life:

"My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart, for they will prolong your life many years and bring you peace and prosperity." (Proverbs 3:2)

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14) Which is what the original Greek actually said, by the way.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
(1 Cor. 9:24)

Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor's crown except by competing according to the rules.
(2 Tim. 2:5)

Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Revelation 14:12)
This all comes from your obvious naivety to the differences between the Covenant Law and the Mosaic Law. Though the Covenant Law is rerecorded in the Mosaic Law (because the Mosaic Law is an extension of that same Covenant Law) the Covenant Law is not actually the Mosaic Law. In other words, The Mosaic Law includes the Covenant Law, but the Covenant Law does not include the Mosaic Law.

Both are simply known as “the Law” but one is “the book of the Law” and the other is “the Covenant Law.” The Book of the Law refers to the Law of Moses. The Covenant Law refers to the tables of stone. The Holy Spirit has allowed the limpidity and salience of the distinctions between these two to be concealed in Scripture for the Glory of God (Proverbs 25:2), and it is also this same Spirit who reveals to us which particular Law is being referred to when the Bible says “the Law” through context.
Sometimes it is the Law of Moses, sometimes it is the Law of God, and sometimes it may even be both. This is where learning to trust in God really comes into reading Scripture. It is through this faith that He reveals His Own kind of Understanding to His Own Scriptures. For if we repent at His rebuke He will pour out his thoughts on us and make known His teachings (Proverbs1:23). How do I know this? Scripture says it and I believed and so, therefore, I have experienced it.

It sometimes gets a bit complicated because the Law of Moses once belonged to God. But now that His Son has fulfilled it, it belongs to the angels, only to be reclaimed by God at a later time (the resurrection). This is similar to how God disowned His "Hand" of power to an angel named Satan in the book of Job, only to reclaim it at a later time. Or like how God has disowned this world to "the god of this world" only to reclaim it at a later time (the Millennial Kingdom). So yes, on occasion, you will find a verse in the Old Testament that refers to the Mosaic Law as "the Law of God." In the Old Covenant, the Torah in its entirety is the Law of God. Just as the Food Laws still apply to those still under the Law, but yet they do not apply to us who are not under the full Law.

We see the distinction here:

“After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord (Deuteronomy 31:24-25)

And here:

“When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.” (Exodus 31:18)

And we also see that the covenant Law is eternal and still intact:

“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.” (Revelation 11:19)

And we also see the current status of “the letter” as well:

“Having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees [613 decrees] against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:14)

We also see how God said that the Book of the Law was an adverse witness against us:

"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.” (Deuteronomy 31:26)

So then it is the Book of the Law (613 decrees) that has been nailed to the cross.

And we see how the Tablets of stone are a Testimony. A testimony to what? God's righteous Character of course (the same Character in which we are supposedly imitating):

"He took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the poles on the ark, and put the mercy seat above on the ark. (Exodus 40:20)

We also see how The Covenant Law was set inside the Ark (set apart; Consecrated; For God's Law is holy):

“Then put inside the ark the tablets of the covenant law, which I will give you.” (Exodus 25:16)

And how the Book of the Law of Moses was set outside the Ark:

"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.” (Deuteronomy 31:26)

And, again, I want to remind you that we see how the Tablets are still in Heaven:

“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.” (Revelation 11:19)

And, again, how the Book of the Law was nailed to the Cross:

“Having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees [613 decrees] against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:14)

There is a distinct reason that God had these things be known to us. You got to pay attention, Dave, or you might wind up missing very clear and important details about the Covenant you are supposed to be in.

And just shortly after this last statement from Paul in Colossians 2:14 we see him furthering his point about the letter being nailed to the cross by mentioning food laws, annual feasts, new moon celebrations, and figurative Sabbaths. . .all of which are unique to the Mosaic Law. That is, the Old Covenant in which was/is directed and mediated by “the handwriting in decrees” of Moses. I simply do not know how to make it any more clear than that, my friend. I will say this though: Do you remember how Peter said that Paul’s words were hard to understand and how unlearned people would twist them into an excuse for lawlessness? Well that was in fact meant to be a hint for many of us, Dave.

The fact alone that one was written by the Finger of God and the other was written by the hand of Moses shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one is called “the Covenant Law” while the other is called “this Book of the Law of Moses” shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one is a Testimony to God and the other is a witness against man shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one was placed inside the Ark (set apart) while the other was placed outside the Ark (and later nailed to the cross. Again, you can nail a letter to a cross but you cannot nail stone tablets to a cross) speaks for itself. That is all the Scriptural proof anyone really needs. Though I can indeed provide more, but I will not. For I see no reason to.

In regards to Col. 2:16, seeing how there are in fact other (figurative) Sabbaths and seeing how these Sabbaths are plural regardless of whether the singular (literal) Sabbath is grouped up with these Sabbaths or not, then is it not safe to conclude with the thought that the weekly Sabbath (The same one in which an Infinite God Himself has observed) is not included in Colossians 2:16? Especially in light of the facts in which I have presented.

There is a mention of a weekly Sabbath in the book of the Law (handwriting in decrees in which was nailed to the cross) and there is also a mention of a weekly Sabbath in the Covenant Law (which is in the Ark in Heaven). Therefore, fourth commandment staunchly stands regardless of the current state of the Mosaic Law. The Bible proves this fact. The Sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2 are the Sabbaths that were divided from the weekly Sabbath by the Ark of God’s Covenant. End of story. Anyone who truly believes "Sola Scriptura" cannot deny this fact.

Yet some try to say that the High Sabbaths and the annual Feasts are the same things. And therefore the "Sabbaths" spoken of here is somehow the singular weekly Sabbath and the "feasts" spoken of here are the High Sabbaths. This is just plain incorrect. The High Sabbaths are indeed Feast-related and therefore correlated to the Biblical feasts, but they are not the same things. Here is something to help you better understand the distinction:

MOSAIC:
Annual Feasts:
Commanded:

1. Passover (Pesach) (non-Sabbatical)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread (included in this feast are 5 days of regular festival amid two days of High Sabbath)
3. Feast of Wave-Sheaf (Feast of first fruits) (Feast of Omer) (non-Sabbatical)
4. Feast of Pentecost (Feast of weeks)
5. Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah)
6. Feast of Atonement
7. Feast of Tabernacles (Feast of Booths) (6 days of regular festival amid 2 days of High Sabbath)

Non-commanded:

• Second day of Rosh Hashanah
• Feast of dedication (Feast of Lights) (“Hanukkah”)
• Feast of lots (“Purim”)

Figurative Sabbaths:
High Sabbaths:

1. Unleavened Bread (1st day)
2. Unleavened Bread (7th day)
3. Pentecost (Shavuot)
4. Trumpets (Yom Teruah) (Half of Rosh Hashanah)
5. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) (“Sabbath of Sabbaths”)
6. Tabernacles (1st day) (Sukkot)
7. “The Last Great Day” (of Sukkot)

Other:

• “Sabbatical Year” (seventh of seven)
• Year of Jubilee (“Sabbath’s Sabbath”)

New Moon Celebrations:

1. Abib* / Nisan
2. Zif* / Iyyar
3. Sivan
4. Tammuz
5. Ab / Av
6. Elul
7. Ethanim* / Tishri
8. Bul* / Marheshvan / Heshvan
9. Chisleu / Chislev / Kislev
10. Tebeth / Tevet
11. Shebat / Shevat
12. Adar
13. 2nd Adar (7 of 19 years)

SEPARATE FROM MOSES:
Literal Sabbath:
True Sabbath:
Saturday (Seventh day) (Shabbat) (of both biblical obligation and biblical authority) (Also included in the Law of Moses)
False Sabbath:
Sunday (first day) (“Day of the Sun”) (no biblical obligation nor any biblical authority whatsoever)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the most part, friend, you don’t seem to understand the harmonizing and mutual relationship that is indeed between Law and Grace, as many do not, unfortunately. Without Law, Grace has no transgression to forgive and cleanse us from. For there would be no standard that separates us from a Holy and separate God in the first place. Without a fall there is no stand. Without transgression, there is no fall from the Glory of God and thus there is no Grace because everything would already be, by result, deserved. For where there is no Law there is no transgression.

Without Grace, Law means death. This is precisely why Paul called the Old Covenant “the ministry that brought death, which was in letters engraved on stone.” (2 Cor. 3:7) because the wages of sin is death, and “the letters engrave on stone” are precisely what defines sin. For “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law.” (1 Cor. 15:56) Back then (in the Old Covenant), abundant Grace did not flow freely from the Throne of God through His Christ. Yet without God’s Spirit, it is futile to try to keep that Law through the fallen sinful nature. For the Law of God is Spiritual and the flesh is not subject to it. That is why God got rid of the problem through Christ, the Way. He did not get rid of His Holy and perfect standard, but rather he got rid of our flesh, through Christ, the Way. In the meantime, He added a carnal extension to His Spiritual Law so as to act as a Guardian to show folks the way to live until Christ appeared. This second Law that was added only brought more death, for whoever did not do all the things listed in it were called accursed. For that Law only came so that every mouth may be shut and held accountable, through its massiveness in which was based upon the many transgressions of mankind.
Yet in a fallen world, If God takes away Law and Grace then you, by result, get nothing but chaos. So all of this must instead mean that there is some kind of perfect balance. This balance allows one to follow Jesus without dying before they ever get the chance to follow Him in the first place. Once you follow Him, you then leave your transgressions behind, not stay in them. God demonstrates His justice and Love by freeing us from original sin so that we might truly follow Christ. “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17) Yet “Your righteousness is righteous forever, and Your Law is truth.” (Psalm 119:142) So obviously eternal truth must be in God’s own Law, not Moses’ Law. This is how we worship in Spirit and in Truth. For God’s Law is Spiritual and is Truth. Yet Jesus is the Truth and is One with the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit is never going to contradict the Law of God’s character, for God is a Spirit. Worshipping on a weekly Sunday convocation is neither done in Spirit nor in Truth. It is instead done in carnality and in falsehood. People who partake in Sunday worship hold fast to a mere form of godliness and yet deny the power thereof. They say, "I surrender all, Lord!!!.....except for my car. . .and my house. . .and my family. . .and my wealth. . .and especially not my precious Friday night/Saturday!!. . .but I assure you I am not lying, Lord. I surrender all!!!" They seek their own lives so for this very reason they shall lose their lives. They bless with their lips but their heart is far from the Lord. They substitute commandments of God for doctrines of men! They follow the pattern of this world. The world has gladly accepted Sunday as a holy day, despite the Lord's commands. These people are so blind they do not even notice that all the other false religions like Catholicism, Mormonism and Jehovah's witnesses worship on Sunday. Thy Law is Truth. Yet there have rejected the truth. They have not loved the truth and so be saved. So, therefore, God sent them a powerful delusion.

 

[Seth Hall]

Sanctification happens the moment you are washed by the blood of Christ-the perfect sacrifice.
To sin after that just manifests that the repentance from sin was a lie.
You can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.

If we commit sin, we are not in Christ...as there is no sin in Christ.

AMEN, BROTHER! The dead in faith do not dwell in the same house as the living in faith, just as the dead do not dwell in the same abode as the living.

 

[Seth Hall]

We won't get into (4) (5) AND (6) as they are not significant to what we are actually talking about.

You:
(7) Cause people, after Christ came, to see that they couldn’t keep the Law but needed to accept Christ as personal Savior, for He had fulfilled the Law in His life and paid the penalty for our breaking it in His death, burial, and bodily resurrection (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). The believer in Christ has the very righteousness of the Law fulfilled in him as he obeys the Holy Spirit who lives within him (Romans 8:4).

Me:
This is true for the Mosaic Law. Not the Covenant Law. No one can actually keep the tedious Law of Moses. Christ fulfilled it in His flesh. When we partake in the edifying of His flesh, the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses is beginning to be fulfilled IN us (Not BY us and definitely not FOR us) Now let me ask you, is the Holy Spirit ever going to coax one to disobey the Testimony of God's Character (the Decalogue)?

The Mosaic Law was fulfilled in Christ's flesh and thus nailed to the cross. "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless. (for the law of Moses made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God." (Hebrews 7:18-19)

Now that the Mosaic Law is starting to be fulfilled in us through communion, then when Christ comes back to resurrect the rest of His Body--the ekklesia that is truly without spot or blemish--then the Full Mosaic Law will be resurrected (see the prophets). For how can we truly say we imitated Christ if we don't also fulfill the OC? Yet we will have a glorified flesh so as to fulfill a carnal Law. Satan--the tempter--will also be locked away for 1000 years, so it will be a piece of cake. For now, Those of us in a spiritualized covenant must keep God's Spiritual Covenant Law through God's Own Spirit.
You do know that a covenant requires something on our part, right?

Covenant: an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

(Ecclesiastical) a solemn agreement between the members of a church to act together in harmony with the precepts of the gospel.

Do you even know what the New Covenant is?

Everything Moses said in the Old Covenant was a carnal picture of what was to come spiritually in the (re)New(ed) and better Covenant (Hebrews 3:5).

-God set a people apart according to the flesh to symbolize how He would later set aside a people (both Jew and Gentile) according to spirit. ("I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"--Hosea 2:23; "And in thy seed shall all the Gentiles of the earth be blessed because thou hast hearkened unto my voice."--Genesis 22:18)

-God wrote His Covenant Law on Tablets of stone which symbolized Him writing His Covenant Law on the tablet of our heart (Jeremiah 31:33).

-carnal circumcision foreshadowed circumcision of the heart (true repentance in accordance to what God calls sin) and the circumcision of Christ (putting of the flesh unto perfection through the baptism of the Holy Spirit) (Deuteronomy 30:6)

-ceremonial Laws like High Sabbaths, New Moon feasts, and Annual feasts foreshadowed better ceremonial Laws that remind God of His son. These are the one true Baptism, communion, and foot-washing. (Hosea 2:11)

-Food Laws, Hair Laws, and Clothing Laws outwardly set apart a people apart according to the flesh. Now we are set apart through Love, which is an action first. All people everywhere see the acts of true Love, thus setting us apart from the hatred of this world. Love comes through obeying God's Own Law (this includes keeping God's Sabbath set apart in every way which in turn sets us apart from the rest of the Sabbath-desecrating world) ("And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean FOR YOU [specifically]"--Leviticus 11:7).

-Priesthood Laws were replaced by Jesus, the High Priest of Melchizedek. We make up the Body of this priest so we are therefore a holy Priesthood (see Hebrews 7).

-Tabernacle Laws were replaced by God buying our living bodies as temples of the Living God (1 Cor. 6:19).

-corporal punishment Laws were replaced with mercy and forgiveness, For God has desired mercy, not sacrifice. (Hosea 6:6)

-burnt offerings were replaced By Christ's perfect sacrifice. He is the Lamb Of God. We must be without spot or blemish in order to make up the Body of this Lamb. If we are indeed a part of the Body of Christ, we must sacrifice our life to serve God and others diligently.

-mortal death for transgression of the Moral Law (not the ceremonial Law) usually ended in mortal death. This symbolized the eternal death that these sins invoke (Ezekiel 33:12; Ezekiel 18:20; Romans 6:23).


The Old Covenant made nothing perfect, as it was weakened by the flesh. But the whole point of having God's Spirit (the same Spirit that Jesus used to fulfill the Old Covenant with) is to actually KEEP GOD'S LAW.

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. (Ezekiel 36:27)

Again, the Gospel is the kingdom of God. God has already made the precepts for obeying His Sovereignty very clear.
Why do you think the "Covenant Law" (10 commandments) is indeed called the Covenant Law? Do you actually even know what the New Covenant is? There is a reason why it is called a better covenant, my friend. Because we actually have God's Spirit to fulfill it. The other one could not be fulfilled because it was weakened by the flesh. Yet if we obey God's Covenant with us, we will eventually partake in the circumcision of Christ.

You:
The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.

Actually, Paul said, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
Was Jesus sin His whole Life? No. He was sin on that faithful moment on the cross. So when you first accept Him, on that faithful moment you are righteous. For you have made the righteous decision to begin believing. That is initial righteousness. Yet that righteousness will not save you on the day that you transgress (Ezekiel 33:12). This is why we need repentance in accordance to the Law that defines our transgressions.

MIGHT infers a chance that you may or may not become the ultimate righteousness of God. This is why we HOPE in eternal Life. Because we have the promise of eternal Life if we fulfill God's Covenant. Yet HOPE infers that it may or may not happen. You cannot do unrighteousness and be called righteous. That is called attempting to make God a liar and saying that Christ cannot actually free you from sin.

Even if what you are saying is correct (and it is not) then by what mechanism would I have to say that one can no longer obey the ten commandments? Why on Earth would it be one or the other, Dave? If Salvation in and of itself truly came simple belief and if one was truly instantaneously saved and locked into salvation (which is NOT how salvation works), then why would one have to make the choice of just sitting in sin or choosing to diligently Follow the Sovereign Lord's commands? Why do make the Almighty out to be illogical like your unreasonable doctrines?

If God said, "It is not good to be partial to the wicked and so deprive the innocent of justice." (Proverbs 18:5) then why would you ever think that God would do this very same thing Himself on Judgement Day? He was angry and at enmity with us before for transgressing His character, but now He does not care? Is God illogical? Is He unreasonable like your human doctrines say He is? Will He partially allow one brand of sinner into Heaven just for having a gift of simple belief (in which they did nothing to obtain) and yet condemn another brand of sinner to hell? Must not everyone repent or they will surely perish (Luke 13:3), even eternally? "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?" (Ezekiel 18:23) Does God wink at your transgressions, Mr. Dave? I do not want to serve The "other Jesus" that you serve, sir.

"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does [like idolizing money, desecrating the Sabbath, misusing the LORD's set apart name, etc. etc. etc.], will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
(Ezekiel 18:24)

The purpose of the Covenant Law (since I was never talking about The Mosaic Law in full being essential in the first place) raises these Questions:

"Are you trusting in yourself to keep all of the 10 commandments all the time (which you cannot do)?" OR "Have you made the decision to actually imitate Christ which results in eventually having Christ circumcise the body of flesh and the desires thereof. Realizing that The Covenant Law cannot save on it's own right, but must be coupled with THE WAY."
For if the wages if the wages of sin is death, then obedience reaps life:

"My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart, for they will prolong your life many years and bring you peace and prosperity." (Proverbs 3:2)

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." (Revelation 22:14) Which is what the original Greek actually said, by the way.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
(1 Cor. 9:24)

Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor's crown except by competing according to the rules.
(2 Tim. 2:5)

Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Revelation 14:12)
This all comes from your obvious naivety to the differences between the Covenant Law and the Mosaic Law. Though the Covenant Law is rerecorded in the Mosaic Law (because the Mosaic Law is an extension of that same Covenant Law) the Covenant Law is not actually the Mosaic Law. In other words, The Mosaic Law includes the Covenant Law, but the Covenant Law does not include the Mosaic Law.

Both are simply known as “the Law” but one is “the book of the Law” and the other is “the Covenant Law.” The Book of the Law refers to the Law of Moses. The Covenant Law refers to the tables of stone. The Holy Spirit has allowed the limpidity and salience of the distinctions between these two to be concealed in Scripture for the Glory of God (Proverbs 25:2), and it is also this same Spirit who reveals to us which particular Law is being referred to when the Bible says “the Law” through context.
Sometimes it is the Law of Moses, sometimes it is the Law of God, and sometimes it may even be both. This is where learning to trust in God really comes into reading Scripture. It is through this faith that He reveals His Own kind of Understanding to His Own Scriptures. For if we repent at His rebuke He will pour out his thoughts on us and make known His teachings (Proverbs1:23). How do I know this? Scripture says it and I believed and so, therefore, I have experienced it.

It sometimes gets a bit complicated because the Law of Moses once belonged to God. But now that His Son has fulfilled it, it belongs to the angels, only to be reclaimed by God at a later time (the resurrection). This is similar to how God disowned His "Hand" of power to an angel named Satan in the book of Job, only to reclaim it at a later time. Or like how God has disowned this world to "the god of this world" only to reclaim it at a later time (the Millennial Kingdom). So yes, on occasion, you will find a verse in the Old Testament that refers to the Mosaic Law as "the Law of God." In the Old Covenant, the Torah in its entirety is the Law of God. Just as the Food Laws still apply to those still under the Law, but yet they do not apply to us who are not under the full Law.

We see the distinction here:

“After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end, he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord (Deuteronomy 31:24-25)

And here:

“When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the covenant law, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God.” (Exodus 31:18)

And we also see that the covenant Law is eternal and still intact:

“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.” (Revelation 11:19)

And we also see the current status of “the letter” as well:

“Having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees [613 decrees] against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:14)

We also see how God said that the Book of the Law was an adverse witness against us:

"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.” (Deuteronomy 31:26)

So then it is the Book of the Law (613 decrees) that has been nailed to the cross.

And we see how the Tablets of stone are a Testimony. A testimony to what? God's righteous Character of course (the same Character in which we are supposedly imitating):

"He took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the poles on the ark, and put the mercy seat above on the ark. (Exodus 40:20)

We also see how The Covenant Law was set inside the Ark (set apart; Consecrated; For God's Law is holy):

“Then put inside the ark the tablets of the covenant law, which I will give you.” (Exodus 25:16)

And how the Book of the Law of Moses was set outside the Ark:

"Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.” (Deuteronomy 31:26)

And, again, I want to remind you that we see how the Tablets are still in Heaven:

“Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.” (Revelation 11:19)

And, again, how the Book of the Law was nailed to the Cross:

“Having blotted out the handwriting in the decrees [613 decrees] against us, which was adverse to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:14)

There is a distinct reason that God had these things be known to us. You got to pay attention, Dave, or you might wind up missing very clear and important details about the Covenant you are supposed to be in.

And just shortly after this last statement from Paul in Colossians 2:14 we see him furthering his point about the letter being nailed to the cross by mentioning food laws, annual feasts, new moon celebrations, and figurative Sabbaths. . .all of which are unique to the Mosaic Law. That is, the Old Covenant in which was/is directed and mediated by “the handwriting in decrees” of Moses. I simply do not know how to make it any more clear than that, my friend. I will say this though: Do you remember how Peter said that Paul’s words were hard to understand and how unlearned people would twist them into an excuse for lawlessness? Well that was in fact meant to be a hint for many of us, Dave.

The fact alone that one was written by the Finger of God and the other was written by the hand of Moses shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one is called “the Covenant Law” while the other is called “this Book of the Law of Moses” shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one is a Testimony to God and the other is a witness against man shows plenty of contrast between these two. The fact alone that one was placed inside the Ark (set apart) while the other was placed outside the Ark (and later nailed to the cross. Again, you can nail a letter to a cross but you cannot nail stone tablets to a cross) speaks for itself. That is all the Scriptural proof anyone really needs. Though I can indeed provide more, but I will not. For I see no reason to.

In regards to Col. 2:16, seeing how there are in fact other (figurative) Sabbaths and seeing how these Sabbaths are plural regardless of whether the singular (literal) Sabbath is grouped up with these Sabbaths or not, then is it not safe to conclude with the thought that the weekly Sabbath (The same one in which an Infinite God Himself has observed) is not included in Colossians 2:16? Especially in light of the facts in which I have presented.

There is a mention of a weekly Sabbath in the book of the Law (handwriting in decrees in which was nailed to the cross) and there is also a mention of a weekly Sabbath in the Covenant Law (which is in the Ark in Heaven). Therefore, fourth commandment staunchly stands regardless of the current state of the Mosaic Law. The Bible proves this fact. The Sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2 are the Sabbaths that were divided from the weekly Sabbath by the Ark of God’s Covenant. End of story. Anyone who truly believes "Sola Scriptura" cannot deny this fact.

Yet some try to say that the High Sabbaths and the annual Feasts are the same things. And therefore the "Sabbaths" spoken of here is somehow the singular weekly Sabbath and the "feasts" spoken of here are the High Sabbaths. This is just plain incorrect. The High Sabbaths are indeed Feast-related and therefore correlated to the Biblical feasts, but they are not the same things. Here is something to help you better understand the distinction:

MOSAIC:
Annual Feasts:
Commanded:

1. Passover (Pesach) (non-Sabbatical)
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread (included in this feast are 5 days of regular festival amid two days of High Sabbath)
3. Feast of Wave-Sheaf (Feast of first fruits) (Feast of Omer) (non-Sabbatical)
4. Feast of Pentecost (Feast of weeks)
5. Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah)
6. Feast of Atonement
7. Feast of Tabernacles (Feast of Booths) (6 days of regular festival amid 2 days of High Sabbath)

Non-commanded:

• Second day of Rosh Hashanah
• Feast of dedication (Feast of Lights) (“Hanukkah”)
• Feast of lots (“Purim”)

Figurative Sabbaths:
High Sabbaths:

1. Unleavened Bread (1st day)
2. Unleavened Bread (7th day)
3. Pentecost (Shavuot)
4. Trumpets (Yom Teruah) (Half of Rosh Hashanah)
5. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) (“Sabbath of Sabbaths”)
6. Tabernacles (1st day) (Sukkot)
7. “The Last Great Day” (of Sukkot)

Other:

• “Sabbatical Year” (seventh of seven)
• Year of Jubilee (“Sabbath’s Sabbath”)

New Moon Celebrations:

1. Abib* / Nisan
2. Zif* / Iyyar
3. Sivan
4. Tammuz
5. Ab / Av
6. Elul
7. Ethanim* / Tishri
8. Bul* / Marheshvan / Heshvan
9. Chisleu / Chislev / Kislev
10. Tebeth / Tevet
11. Shebat / Shevat
12. Adar
13. 2nd Adar (7 of 19 years)

SEPARATE FROM MOSES:
Literal Sabbath:
True Sabbath:
Saturday (Seventh day) (Shabbat) (of both biblical obligation and biblical authority) (Also included in the Law of Moses)
False Sabbath:
Sunday (first day) (“Day of the Sun”) (no biblical obligation nor any biblical authority whatsoever)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the most part, friend, you don’t seem to understand the harmonizing and mutual relationship that is indeed between Law and Grace, as many do not, unfortunately. Without Law, Grace has no transgression to forgive and cleanse us from. For there would be no standard that separates us from a Holy and separate God in the first place. Without a fall there is no stand. Without transgression, there is no fall from the Glory of God and thus there is no Grace because everything would already be, by result, deserved. For where there is no Law there is no transgression.

Without Grace, Law means death. This is precisely why Paul called the Old Covenant “the ministry that brought death, which was in letters engraved on stone.” (2 Cor. 3:7) because the wages of sin is death, and “the letters engrave on stone” are precisely what defines sin. For “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law.” (1 Cor. 15:56) Back then (in the Old Covenant), abundant Grace did not flow freely from the Throne of God through His Christ. Yet without God’s Spirit, it is futile to try to keep that Law through the fallen sinful nature. For the Law of God is Spiritual and the flesh is not subject to it. That is why God got rid of the problem through Christ, the Way. He did not get rid of His Holy and perfect standard, but rather he got rid of our flesh, through Christ, the Way. In the meantime, He added a carnal extension to His Spiritual Law so as to act as a Guardian to show folks the way to live until Christ appeared. This second Law that was added only brought more death, for whoever did not do all the things listed in it were called accursed. For that Law only came so that every mouth may be shut and held accountable, through its massiveness in which was based upon the many transgressions of mankind.
Yet in a fallen world, If God takes away Law and Grace then you, by result, get nothing but chaos. So all of this must instead mean that there is some kind of perfect balance. This balance allows one to follow Jesus without dying before they ever get the chance to follow Him in the first place. Once you follow Him, you then leave your transgressions behind, not stay in them. God demonstrates His justice and Love by freeing us from original sin so that we might truly follow Christ. “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17) Yet “Your righteousness is righteous forever, and Your Law is truth.” (Psalm 119:142) So obviously eternal truth must be in God’s own Law, not Moses’ Law. This is how we worship in Spirit and in Truth. For God’s Law is Spiritual and is Truth. Yet Jesus is the Truth and is One with the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit is never going to contradict the Law of God’s character, for God is a Spirit. Worshipping on a weekly Sunday convocation is neither done in Spirit nor in Truth. It is instead done in carnality and in falsehood. People who partake in Sunday worship hold fast to a mere form of godliness and yet deny the power thereof. They say, "I surrender all, Lord!!!.....except for my car. . .and my house. . .and my family. . .and my wealth. . .and especially not my precious Friday night/Saturday!!. . .but I assure you I am not lying, Lord. I surrender all!!!" They seek their own lives so for this very reason they shall lose their lives. They bless with their lips but their heart is far from the Lord. They substitute commandments of God for doctrines of men! They follow the pattern of this world. The world has gladly accepted Sunday as a holy day, despite the Lord's commands. These people are so blind they do not even notice that all the other false religions like Catholicism, Mormonism and Jehovah's witnesses worship on Sunday. Thy Law is Truth. Yet there have rejected the truth. They have not loved the truth and so be saved. So, therefore, God sent them a powerful delusion.

Sorry, I would have had this in earlier, but sunset grew near on Friday and just after I tried to post it it told me it was too long (Sorry about the length btw). I did not get the chance to post it until sunset on Saturday.

 

[Seth Hall]

The final judgement will be whether Jesus is in you or not. He is the only one good...you are nothing with out him in You!

.
So now sin and Jesus dwell in the same abode? Yes only God is good. That is why you have to be in the Father and have the Father in you to do anything good. It is called abiding in the Vine. I think me and you already went through this.

 

[Seth Hall]

I am trusting in Jesus, so I can keep all the ten commandments all the time.
So for it's working just fine.
Thanks be to God.

Thats exactly how we stay in Christ and thus be saved from sin. Well said, brother! And concise too lol

 

[Seth Hall]

good luck being under the law, I prefer grace myself.

You obviously don't know why Grace is there or what "under Law" means. We are all obligated to God's own righteousness (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Yet we are not under the full Law of Moses and the Old Covenant. If you knew what under Grace meant you would not be promoting sinning (or transgressing the Law) so that Grace might abound. For God has literally forbidden that.

 

[At Peace]

The final judgement will be whether Jesus is in you or not. He is the only one good...you are nothing with out him in You!

But aren't you "good" with Him in you?

 

[Seth Hall]

Well theres only two commandments christians need to keep and by keeping those we fufill all the other commandments.

As a gentile christian the OT is a great book to see how our adoped ancestors went about trying to keep all the commandments, some failed and some succeeded but only Jesus could fulfill them all...it is by having faith in Jesus that we can now keep them in our hearts.

paul as a pharisee struggled to keep every commandment (and they kept adding more to what God had specified) but it led him to do some incredibly unrighteous things like persecuting christians. When he got saved and converted God gave him grace to be able to keep the commandments and love one another. His grace was sufficient. Did Paul then sin, after being set free by Jesus no he did not but he suffered a lot! He stopped persecuting christians and became a great missionary for Christ to the gentiles. Even when he was in danger or tempted to become proud of his achievements God humbled him and kept him humble so he was able to boast of his infirmities - he was stoned, beaten, in a shipwreck,, accused falsely, nearly got killed by lions (yes they fed christians to lions back in the day) and still by the grace of God survive to tell the gospel praise the Lord.

You fulfill those by keeping the commandments of God. The Bible makes this very clear.

"The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not covet," and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."--Romans 13:9

Who decides what loving God and Loving your neighbor is? us? or God? Love is an action first and an emotion second.

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9)

So let is ask ourselves: do I feel like I love God and man? Or do I truly Loving God and man with what I do?

If I love God, then do I have monetary/materialistic idols in your heart?
If I love God, then do I misuse His name?
If I love God, then do I keep His consecrated day set apart?
If I love humanity, do I dishonor your parents?
If I love humanity, do I lie to your neighbor to get the outcome you desire?
If I love humanity, do I lust/commit adultery?
If I love humanity, do I hate/murder?
If I love humanity, do I steal from your neighbor?
If I love humanity, do I envy others?

How can we love God whom we cannot see, if we cannot even love an image of God whom we can see?

One reason it is called the Gospel of peace is because it brings peace between God and man, but not sinning (which comes naturally when you truly imitate Christ).

One reason they call it the Gospel of the kingdom of God is because the royal subjects stay loyal to the Sovereignty of God.

 

[Seth Hall]

@ Stillborn 2004

• James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.....All I can say about your above statement is: Good luck with that 24/7 the rest of your life.

You are stuck in the flesh and Satan only tries to discourage others through you. Yes if we break one then we broke them all. But there only 10 commands in the covenant Law. You know, the same Covenant Law that defines our covenant with God and also our sins that are against God?

• If you knew your Bible, you would know that the law was never meant to save. The problem was not the Law, the law was given by God and is perfect...the problem was man....he couldn't keep the law and neither can you.

Actually, if you ever read yours, then you would know that it was meant to save:

"I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death." (Romans 7:10)

It brought death because we were in the flesh and therefore had no way to fulfill the spiritual Law of God. For the flesh is not subject to the Law nor can it be. That is why we have THE WAY to fulfill it through Christ. . .by imitating His works.

No, the problem was not the Law. So why are you saying God did away with it? The problem was our flesh. That is why we must die to the flesh through the circumcision of Christ. I already explained this up above in one of my "dissertations."

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

• With the Old Covenant, the law ended every year with the Day of Atonement where the law and sacrifices "Covered over Sins" until the Next years "Day of Atonement".

We are not under the full Mosaic Law and therefore we are not under the Old Covenant. The Bible does a good job explaining this already. If you actually knew what the New Covenant was and what the Covenant Law is, then maybe you would know what our duty is in this Covenant. The Day of atonement is not mentioned in the Covenant Law. So why are you even bringing that up?

• 1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. You are saved by Grace through Faith, not the law...Jesus took away sins from the sight of God for all time...not you beleaguered attempts at keeping the law.

Sins are transgression of the Law. You cannot repent and thus be saved from sin if you are ignoring what God calls sin.

• Romans 3:20 'because by the works of the Law no flesh shall be justified in His sight; for though the Law comes the knowledge of sin.'... not salvation.

You don't even understand what Paul is talking about. If you actually knew two make a distinction between the Covenant Law and the Mosaic Law then maybe you would have wisdom. For wisdom starts with the fear of the LORD.

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." (Romans 2:13)

• Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast

Yes. Paul is telling us how we are ultimately saved. I already covered this in another thread:

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. The Church does not teach this. . .because the Church is in apostasy. The Church teaches that we are stuck in the flesh as hopeless sinners. Yet those who were truly Baptized in Christ was been circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands. . .one that puts of the body of flesh with all of it's lawlessness. If Christ said that if anyone TRULY believes that they would do His works and greater then that is what he meant. It is a matter of true diligence and patience.

People don't seem to understand the difference between God's works and our own works of "righteousness." Christ died so that we might become the righteousness of God. Because we are supposed to be diligently conformed to the image of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit and through repentance (the exact opposite of grieving the Spirit and being a son of disobedience).

The only way our righteousness is going to surpass that of the Pharisees is if we are actually more righteous than the Pharisees. And that can only be done through the path that Christ has set for us. Through His works, by the enabling power of the Holy Spirit.

If you are not in the Vine then you will be burned. If you are in the Vine then they are now no longer your works, but Christ's. For you can do nothing of eternal significance without Christ working through you. This all happens through obedience and submission to God's anciently revealed will. For the Father and the Son are One. If you have heard the Son then you have heard the Father. Get what I am saying?

For He is LORD (Son) God (Father) Almighty (Holy Spirit) and He is One (Deuteronomy 6:4). You must work out our salvation, for it is actually God working in us to His good will and purpose (Phil. 2:12-13). His works are works that no man can boast in. For His works are faith and only faith pleases God (Hebrews 11:6). . . But yet keeping God's commands is what the Bible defines as "what is pleasing to Him" (1 John 3:22; Isaiah 56:4). Put two and two together and you get your answer. For true Biblical faith is dead without works and cannot save anyone (James 2:14). Because our salvation won't be revealed until the day of redemption (1 Peter 1:5).

It has not already instantaneously happened. That is why the future tense verb "shall be saved" is used. Salvation is salvation from sin and death. . .It happens when we are redeemed from sin and death. Predestination comes through Grace. Without that Grace no one would be saved. Therefore, the totality of Salvation is ultimately by Grace.

There is nothing you can do to earn predestination, for one who is chosen was chosen before the foundation of the world. it comes by Grace through faith. Faith without works is dead. Saving, Living, perfected Faith is coupled with works. Jesus is the perfecter of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). It is His works, not our own. Lest any man should boast.

Hope this little nugget of info has helped.



Hey man, this isn't our first run-in with each other so I'm just going to be straight with you. If you want to go sin so that Grace might abound, then go do it by yourself. Quit trying to tell others it is okay to do so that you might feel justified. Sorry that I am having to be very blunt with you. But you are quite an unreasonable man from what I can tell. Either abide in Christ or don't. But quit trying to tell others to follow the error of lawlessness. It is just not right.

• 
  

 

[B-A-C]

The final judgement will be whether Jesus is in you or not. He is the only one good...you are nothing with out him in You!

That is a nice sentiment, but not scriptural at all.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

2 Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

I agree we cannot be saved without Him.... but even with Him... your "deeds" matter.

 

[Born Again 2004]

That is a nice sentiment, but not scriptural at all.

Hope these are enough for you:

• John 14:20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
• John 17:23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
• Roman 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness
• Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
• Ephesians 3:17-19 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.
• Colossians 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
• 1 John 3:27 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
• Revelations 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
• i Corinthians 15:28 However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life].
• Ephesians 3:16 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].
• Hebrews 6:18 This was so that, by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath] in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before [us].

I agree we cannot be saved without Him.... but even with Him... your "deeds" matter.

• Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I am truly sadden that you do not think or realize that Jesus is in You!

 

[Born Again 2004]

But aren't you "good" with Him in you?

• Mark 10:18 But Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? no one is good but one, that is God.
• Luke 8:19 And Jesus said to him, 'Why me dost thou call good? no one is good, except One -- God;

Only God is good, you are not God; God's spirit in you is good, not you. If he dwells in you, you are much better for it and more good but, totally perfect 24/7 everyday , the rest of your life, is impossible for you.God calls you to be perfect and righteous but, no where does he say that you personally are perfect but that his spirit in you is! He does say you will be perfected after you die and are in his presence; at this time he will glorify ( perfect) you!

 

[Dave M]

• Mark 10:18 But Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? no one is good but one, that is God.
• Luke 8:19 And Jesus said to him, 'Why me dost thou call good? no one is good, except One -- God;

Only God is good, you are not God; God's spirit in you is good, not you. If he dwells in you, you are much better for it and more good but, totally perfect 24/7 everyday , the rest of your life, is impossible for you.God calls you to be perfect and righteous but, no where does he say that you personally are perfect but that his spirit in you is! He does say you will be perfected after you die and are in his presence; at this time he will glorify ( perfect) you!

Spot on mate !!

 

[B-A-C]

• John 14:20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

• John 17:23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

• Roman 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness

• Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

• Ephesians 3:17-19 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

• Colossians 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

• 1 John 3:27 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

• Revelations 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

• i Corinthians 15:28 However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life].

• Ephesians 3:16 May He grant you out of the rich treasury of His glory to be strengthened and reinforced with mighty power in the inner man by the [Holy] Spirit [Himself indwelling your innermost being and personality].

• Hebrews 6:18 This was so that, by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath] in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before [us].

These are all great verses, but I notice not a single one says anything about not being judged.

 

[Born Again 2004]

These are all great verses, but I notice not a single one says anything about not being judged.

• So you don't dispute the scriptures that say . as a Christian, Jesus is in you?
• I suppose, you say Jesus will judge you, not by the presence of God in you but let you into heaven by your works!

.

 

[Seth Hall]

@ Fisher of fish 2004

• So you don't dispute the scriptures that say . as a Christian, Jesus is in you?

Nobody was arguing that point. But there is no Scripture that says that the reason why we will be judged is on whether or not we have the Holy Spirit. That is what the guy was saying.

"The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations." (Revelation 2:26)

We only get into heaven if we are righteous (Matt. 7:21; Matt. 5:20; 1 Cor. 6:9). That is why we are justified through Christ and must retain this justification. The Bible makes this very clear. You do not understand the difference between our works and Christ's works. Yet I have already told this to you repeatedly. You are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen, sir. We all know that only God is good. That is why God must work through your submission to His will.

• I suppose, you say Jesus will judge you, not by the presence of God in you but let you into heaven by your works!

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." (2 Cor. 5:10)

I suppose you just listen to what men say and totally ignore what the Bible actually says.

"Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?" (Isaiah 2:22)

"Whoever digs a pit will fall into it; if someone rolls a stone, it will roll back on them." (Proverbs 26:27)

"Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues." (Proverbs 17:28)

 

[Born Again 2004]

You are one of the most ignorant people I have ever seen, sir.

• The Bible is clear that Christians will be known for their love for one another.....were's the love brother?!
• Christ being our final Judge, and believers having the Holy Spirit and walking with God in spite of persecution from evil doers!
  
• A true Christian will be separated from others by them being Born Again and other works of Jesus in you...it is his works in and through you...not your own works before other men. Ephesians 2:8-9
• You are saved when you are Born Again spiritually and having Christ in you...calling me ignorant does not reveal that God is in you!

 

[Born Again 2004]

I suppose you just listen to what men say and totally ignore what the Bible actually says.

Never men, especially the likes of one who represents such non -Christian values!'