with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

[At Peace]

Those are good points, brother. I only disagree with you implying that we can claim ourselves as good.

If you can't claim it, you denigrate the work of Christ in yourself.
Or plainly say you are not even in Christ.

And I would also like to say that the bride and the groom will not be completely unified until after the resurrection (when we get a glorified body). Jesus in His divinity was One with the Father but His flesh was not One with the Father until it was glorified, friend.

What kind of bride is Jesus expecting to find?
One that is "not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)

But yes, If we are truly circumcised from the body of flesh (which happens through the one true Baptism see Col. 2:11) then you are right, it does not have any bearing on the matter.

Better be sure then that you are "truly circumcised of the flesh".

I was simply saying that Jesus as the Son of Man was not simply good without God's Spirit. If His soul and body was unified with a regular human spirit then He would not have been "the annointed One." I am saying that we cannot claim those works as coming from our skin, but rather from God.

Isn't our "skin" from God?
By differentiating portions of our selves into "good" and "bad" parts, you leave a door open for more sin, and an excuse to perform it.
Be ALL good, or quit playing Christian.

For Scripture does indeed say that God alone is good. If Jesus would have been without the Spirit of God, then He could not have been good on His own is all I was saying. As the Son of God (His divinity) He was good. I think I get what you are saying. He did not want to bear witness of Himself. I just want it to be clear that it is not our own works. Our bodies are just temples for God to operate through, just as Christ's Body was a temple for God to operate on. Rather, we should allow God to claim goodness for us on the Day of Judgement when He judges the works that we submitted to in the body. For we can do nothing on our own without abiding in the Vine. Even hypothetically if it was our own goodness (and its not because our own goodness is dirty rags), then it still would not do us good to bear witness of ourselves.

Hope this has helped bro
Stay in the Word and the Word in you

OK, but if you aren't willing to glorify God with a witness of your newly given goodness, someone may ask you to manifest the badness.
Be bold in the grace God has given us, and be prepared to defend the righteousness God wishes everyone would partake of.

 

[Seth Hall]

If you can't claim it, you denigrate the work of Christ in yourself.
Or plainly say you are not even in Christ.

Why do you yourself want to claim it so badly?

You cannot claim to be in Christ if you are not in the Vine. If you are in the Vine then it is Christ working through you. Think of yourself as an avatar for God. A faithful, obedient servant.

Just listen to what Lanolin said:
"Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness, but a faithful man who can find?" (Proverbs 20:6)

And I fail to see how we denigrate Christ's work by claiming that it came from Christ, my friend. On the contrary, we would be disparaging it if we claimed it as our own.

What kind of bride is Jesus expecting to find?
One that is "not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)

Exactly. That is why JESUS purifies us. We do not purify ourselves.

Better be sure then that you are "truly circumcised of the flesh".

My point exactly. One must be filled completely with the Holy Spirit (have their heart circumcised by true repentance) before one is ready to be truly baptized into the Body of Christ (which is without spot or blemish). Many believe they are baptized, but yet have not even repented in accordance with what God actually calls sin (this includes misusing God's name, Sabbatical desecration, monetary/materialistic idols in one's heart, etc.). Yet one must be TRULY born by both Spirit and the water to enter into the kingdom of Heaven. There is a reason for this, my friend.

The one true baptism is the baptism of water, fire, and Spirit. For there is only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), not three. For they are three in One. Baptism works like the trinity. As does our spirit, soul, and body.

When you first believe, you receive the inward gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2; Ephesians 1:13). When you are truly baptized you receive the outward gift of the Holy Spirit and therefore you are submerged in God's Spirit and your flesh is metaphorically circumcised. This is what it means to be in the Father and have the Father in you. The one baptized must cloth Himself with Christ. That is why the Holy Spirit descended upon the One in whom we are imitating when He was baptized. This is where the true persecution begins (baptism by fire). This is why Paul said that the ones who actually belong to Christ have truly been baptized into His Body (1 Cor. 12:13), for they have completely died to the desires of the sinful flesh through the circumcision of the flesh. Personally, I myself have not been baptized yet. I have only been on this path a short time. In fact, not all that long ago I was an "agnostic atheist." I take this very seriously and do not want to be one of those people who gets baptized multiple times after they start believing. I want my Baptism to be the One true Baptism, although I think me and God have made it to the point where I am ready, though I am searching for a new church as of right now.

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the [Outward] gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, [Literally] no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are [Truly] born of water and the Spirit. (John 3:5)

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a [completely] clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3:22)




Isn't our "skin" from God?
By differentiating portions of our selves into "good" and "bad" parts, you leave a door open for more sin, and an excuse to perform it.
Be ALL good, or quit playing Christian.

Our "skin" is from the dust of the earth. The Earth is from God. Our "skin" is in a fallen state, as is the earth. Either you can serve the flesh which results in death, or you can serve the Spirit which results in life. The Bible makes this very clear. In fact, that is the point Paul was trying to make when he said "with my flesh I serve the Law of sin" when he was speaking on behalf of humanity. If one serves their "skin" then they are not serving God. You must submit your members to God, through the Power of Christ. Are we clear on this, my friend?

Paul differentiated these parts as well and made it very clear that one can indeed fall back into sin. That is not to say that we must lazily live in sin just because it is possible.

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap destruction, [that is, eternal destruction] but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. [the Spirit will never urge you to go against the Testimony Of God/Spiritual Law of God] And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. [implying that if we lose heart, we do not inherit the promise of eternal Life. The same promise that we have by foreknowledge if we truly believe] Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith [Living faith and dead faith do not dwell in the same household]. (Galatians 6:7-10)

"The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)

"Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness."
(Romans 6:13)


Peter also warned us not to fall from our secure position back into the error of lawlessness:

"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." (2 Peter 3:17)

OK, but if you aren't willing to glorify God with a witness of your newly given goodness, someone may ask you to manifest the badness.
Be bold in the grace God has given us, and be prepared to defend the righteousness God wishes everyone would partake of.

If someone asks me to manifest badness, then I will listen to God instead of that person. And I am boldly defending God's righteousness through the Grace He has given me. By doing this I am defending the fact that is of God and not myself.

But seek first the [Soveriegn] kingdom of God and His [OWN] righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. (Matthew 6:33)

Let the good works speak for themselves, my brother. I may have helped build a rollercoaster but I do not claim it as my own. The owner of the theme park (who is also the architect in this case) who made the blueprints claims it as His and then He rewards me after the work is all said and done.

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)

Apparently, I owe Born Again 2004 an apology. I misspoke. I was under the impression that no one was trying to argue the fact that only God alone is good. I was wrong

Again, I hope this has helped, friend.

 

[Seth Hall]

If you can't claim it, you denigrate the work of Christ in yourself.
Or plainly say you are not even in Christ.


What kind of bride is Jesus expecting to find?
One that is "not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)


Better be sure then that you are "truly circumcised of the flesh".


Isn't our "skin" from God?
By differentiating portions of our selves into "good" and "bad" parts, you leave a door open for more sin, and an excuse to perform it.
Be ALL good, or quit playing Christian.


OK, but if you aren't willing to glorify God with a witness of your newly given goodness, someone may ask you to manifest the badness.
Be bold in the grace God has given us, and be prepared to defend the righteousness God wishes everyone would partake of.

I do like how you said "our newly given goodness" though. The righteousness we have has been given through the Grace of God. It is not of ourselves. Yet one cannot be righteous if they are being unrighteous:

"And you, son of man, say to your fellow citizens, 'The righteousness of a righteous man will not deliver him in the day of his transgression, and as for the wickedness of the wicked, he will not stumble because of it in the day when he turns from his wickedness; whereas a righteous man will not be able to live by his righteousness on the day when he commits sin.' (Ezekiel 33:12)

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. “But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die. (Ezekiel 18:20-24)

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Wow there sure is a lot of flesh being slung in this thread.
Brothers falsely accusing one another trying to prove each brings the truth over the other.

I challenge each and everyone to examine their actions and behavior against the following.

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7
4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6 It does not rejoice at injustice andunrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7 Love bears up under anything andeverything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

Let's humbly build each other up and not be found tearing one another down.

God Bless you All
Blessings
W4F

 

[At Peace]

If you can't claim it, you denigrate the work of Christ in yourself.
Or plainly say you are not even in Christ.

Why do you yourself want to claim it so badly?

I want God to get the glory due to Him for providing a way for us to be "good".
If nobody can be good, Christ died for nothing.

You cannot claim to be in Christ if you are not in the Vine. If you are in the Vine then it is Christ working through you. Think of yourself as an avatar for God. A faithful, obedient servant.

Think rather that you are a portion of God: or at least that you have a portion of God.
John wrote..."And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22)
Would not being one with God infer "goodness"?

Just listen to what Lanolin said:
"Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness, but a faithful man who can find?" (Proverbs 20:6)

Are we moving on from "goodness" to faithfulness?

And I fail to see how we denigrate Christ's work by claiming that it came from Christ, my friend. On the contrary, we would be disparaging it if we claimed it as our own.

To deny the outcome denies the sacrifice.
Jesus suffered died and was buried so we could be "good". So we could be baptized into Him and His death, killing the "ungood" old man, and be raised with Him to walk in newness of life. A life of "goodness"
If you are not "good", you have not partaken of what Jesus has supplied for you to quit being "ungood".

What kind of bride is Jesus expecting to find?
One that is "not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph 5:27)

Exactly. That is why JESUS purifies us. We do not purify ourselves.

Don't you equate "purified" with "good"?
I do.

Better be sure then that you are "truly circumcised of the flesh".

My point exactly. One must be filled completely with the Holy Spirit (have their heart circumcised by true repentance) before one is ready to be truly baptized into the Body of Christ (which is without spot or blemish). Many believe they are baptized, but yet have not even repented in accordance with what God actually calls sin (this includes misusing God's name, Sabbatical desecration, monetary/materialistic idols in one's heart, etc.). Yet one must be TRULY born by both Spirit and the water to enter into the kingdom of Heaven. There is a reason for this, my friend.

Are not those who are "TRULY born by Spirit" good?

The one true baptism is the baptism of water, fire, and Spirit. For there is only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), not three. For they are three in One. Baptism works like the trinity. As does our spirit, soul, and body.

New thread...

When you first believe, you receive the inward gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2; Ephesians 1:13). When you are truly baptized you receive the outward gift of the Holy Spirit and therefore you are submerged in God's Spirit and your flesh is metaphorically circumcised. This is what it means to be in the Father and have the Father in you. The one baptized must cloth Himself with Christ. That is why the Holy Spirit descended upon the One in whom we are imitating when He was baptized. This is where the true persecution begins (baptism by fire). This is why Paul said that the ones who actually belong to Christ have truly been baptized into His Body (1 Cor. 12:13), for they have completely died to the desires of the sinful flesh through the circumcision of the flesh. Personally, I myself have not been baptized yet. I have only been on this path a short time. In fact, not all that long ago I was an "agnostic atheist." I take this very seriously and do not want to be one of those people who gets baptized multiple times after they start believing. I want my Baptism to be the One true Baptism, although I think me and God have made it to the point where I am ready, though I am searching for a new church as of right now.

Keep searching.
God doesn't allow his lovers to flap in the breeze.

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the

[Outward] gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, [Literally] no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are [Truly] born of water and the Spirit. (John 3:5)

"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a [completely] clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 3:22)

I submit that those with a clear conscience before God are "good".

Isn't our "skin" from God?
By differentiating portions of our selves into "good" and "bad" parts, you leave a door open for more sin, and an excuse to perform it.
Be ALL good, or quit playing Christian.

Our "skin" is from the dust of the earth. The Earth is from God. Our "skin" is in a fallen state, as is the earth. Either you can serve the flesh which results in death, or you can serve the Spirit which results in life. The Bible makes this very clear. In fact, that is the point Paul was trying to make when he said "with my flesh I serve the Law of sin" when he was speaking on behalf of humanity. If one serves their "skin" then they are not serving God. You must submit your members to God, through the Power of Christ. Are we clear on this, my friend?

Our skin...better said, His skin is reborn from God's seed. (Gal 2:20)
It is used for good by good men.

Paul differentiated these parts as well and made it very clear that one can indeed fall back into sin. That is not to say that we must lazily live in sin just because it is possible.
"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap destruction, [that is, eternal destruction] but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. [the Spirit will never urge you to go against the Testimony Of God/Spiritual Law of God] And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. [implying that if we lose heart, we do not inherit the promise of eternal Life. The same promise that we have by foreknowledge if we truly believe] Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith [Living faith and dead faith do not dwell in the same household]. (Galatians 6:7-10)
"The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace." (Romans 8:6)
"Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness."
(Romans 6:13)

Those who return to sin manifest that their repentance from sin was a lie.

Peter also warned us not to fall from our secure position back into the error of lawlessness:
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position." (2 Peter 3:17)

Some folks listen to those exhortations in order to maintain our endurance till the end.
Not everyone falls away.

OK, but if you aren't willing to glorify God with a witness of your newly given goodness, someone may ask you to manifest the badness.
Be bold in the grace God has given us, and be prepared to defend the righteousness God wishes everyone would partake of.

If someone asks me to manifest badness, then I will listen to God instead of that person. And I am boldly defending God's righteousness through the Grace He has given me. By doing this I am defending the fact that is of God and not myself.

That is called resisting temptation, and is part and parcel of being "good".

But seek first the

[Soveriegn] kingdom of God and His [OWN] righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. (Matthew 6:33)
Let the good works speak for themselves, my brother. I may have helped build a rollercoaster but I do not claim it as my own. The owner of the theme park (who is also the architect in this case) who made the blueprints claims it as His and then He rewards me after the work is all said and done.

The labor was "your own".
The architect (God) made the plans, the supplier (Jesus) provided all the materials necessary for the projects completion, and you did the work, (remained obedient unto death).
By doing the work, you attest to the wonderfulness of God and of His Son Christ Jesus.
Being "good" validates the Planner and the Supplier of our eventual salvation.

"In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)

"Our" good deeds.

Apparently, I owe Born Again 2004 an apology. I misspoke. I was under the impression that no one was trying to argue the fact that only God alone is good. I was wrong
Again, I hope this has helped, friend.

While an apology to BA2004 may be called for, (I'm not familiar with the details), my God given ability to be "good" is in nowise diminished.

 

[Lanolin]

Wow there sure is a lot of flesh being slung in this thread.
Brothers falsely accusing one another trying to prove each brings the truth over the other.

I challenge each and everyone to examine their actions and behavior against the following.

1 Corinthians 13 : 4-7
4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious norboils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rightsor its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful orresentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6 It does not rejoice at injustice andunrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7 Love bears up under anything andeverything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

Let's humbly build each other up and not be found tearing one another down.

God Bless you All
Blessings
W4F

Amen I see some prideful posts and people tearing the bible to bits trying to make their point. Only the lamb is worthy to take the book remember? Read revelation chapter 5 where the slain lamb takes the book right out of the lions mouth.

People are acting like roaring lions trying to be King. Tearing the lamb to shreds. Jesus NEVER acted this way.

Phillip was asked by the eunuch to explain a scripture he didnt understand in Isaiah. What did Phillip do? He opened up scripture and told the euncuh about Jesus. It all points to Jesus. Jesus was like a lamb led to the slaughter. He came in the flesh, the crucifixtion was bloody. With my flesh I serve the law of sin. What are the wages of sin? Death! That is why Jesus was crucified,to pay for everyones sins. Thats why we believe in Him. Who can save us from the penalty of death? Only Jesus. Why? Because he came to life again.

Paul was explaining in his letter to the Romans what to do with the sin problem since we cant solve it ourselves. Answer...Jesus puts the flesh to death on the cross. He willingly gave up his life. Have you ever been to an abattoir? I have. Its not a pretty sight. But while pigs squeal, lambs obediently go to their death. They willingly give up their life, no protest.

 

[KingJ]

I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
what does that mean???

The title and this OP as really been on mind of late. Two issues spring to mind.

1. Adam's flesh did not sin.

When He and Eve were in the garden of Eden, sin came forth when 1. his mind entertained thoughts of eating the fruit. 2. He 'willed' to eat the fruit.

We are spirit, soul and flesh. Paul prays that all three are preserved in 1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2. Do we lose our 'body'? We get a knew body. Our old one returns to dust. We will always be body, mind / soul and spirit.

Paul says he serves the law of sin with his flesh, because his flesh is weak. Our flesh easily lusts after things like food, immoral thoughts, laziness (sleeping over working for God) etc.

So here is my two cent conclusion. 1. We are body, mind and spirit at this very moment. If our flesh sins, we have sinned. 2. We must not think we lose the ability to sin, just because we lose our flesh. It is our will / soul that first sinned.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

We are spirit, soul and flesh.

Sole is Mind, Will and Emotions.
Flesh is Mind will and Emotions.

we lose our flesh.

We don't loose the flesh, we simply learn how to overcome the flesh by the Spirit.

We feed the Spirit with the word of God and thus starving the flesh and not allowing it to have its way.

If we do not feed the Spirit to the point it grows and overcomes the flesh then the flesh will have its ugly way.

Adam sinned out of disobedience unto God by listening to the wiles of the devil and thinking about what he was saying unto the point He did also eat of the forbidden fruit.

Blessings
W4F

 

[Dave M]

Sole is Mind, Will and Emotions.
Flesh is Mind will and Emotions.



We don't loose the flesh, we simply learn how to overcome the flesh by the Spirit.

We feed the Spirit with the word of God and thus starving the flesh and not allowing it to have its way.

If we do not feed the Spirit to the point it grows and overcomes the flesh then the flesh will have its ugly way.

Adam sinned out of disobedience unto God by listening to the wiles of the devil and thinking about what he was saying unto the point He did also eat of the forbidden fruit.

Blessings
W4F

what a wonderful awesome way to put it !! thank you brother !! what are some way you consider feeding the spirit brother ?? reading the word of GOd, listening to biblical sermons, .... what else

 

[KingJ]

Sole is Mind, Will and Emotions.
Flesh is Mind will and Emotions.



We don't loose the flesh, we simply learn how to overcome the flesh by the Spirit.

We feed the Spirit with the word of God and thus starving the flesh and not allowing it to have its way.

If we do not feed the Spirit to the point it grows and overcomes the flesh then the flesh will have its ugly way.

Adam sinned out of disobedience unto God by listening to the wiles of the devil and thinking about what he was saying unto the point He did also eat of the forbidden fruit.

Blessings
W4F

Our spelling errors.... :smile:.

I was referring to losing the flesh when we die. Dust to dust.

I don't know if I agree that the flesh is 'mind and will'. Perhaps emotions, yes.

Example: Our mind can know what is right and desire to do it. Our flesh decides otherwise. The flesh can influence the mind and vice versa. Emotions are influenced by the spirit, mind and body.

I want to single out mind from body. Because it is in the mind that we retain free will. It is therefore wrong to say we stop sinning when we lose our earthly body / flesh.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I want to single out mind from body. Because it is in the mind that we retain free will. It is therefore wrong to say we stop sinning when we lose our earthly body / flesh.

You might want to think about that one.
When we lose our earthly body suit, then we can no longer be here in this earth or world.

Sin and the curse is only in this world. Once we leave here we will for the first time experience no sin and no curse around us.

So where would one sin?
In the grave?
Standing before the Father?
In Heaven?

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

what a wonderful awesome way to put it !! thank you brother !! what are some way you consider feeding the spirit brother ?? reading the word of GOd, listening to biblical sermons, .... what else

As you mentioned above.
Also speaking His Word.
Prayer and praying that God will show you what is of Him and what is not.

Putting forth what you learn (doer of His Word) trains up the Spirit and reduces the flesh.
Blessings

 

[Seth Hall]

Wow there sure is a lot of flesh being slung in this thread.
Brothers falsely accusing one another trying to prove each brings the truth over the other.

I challenge each and everyone to examine their actions and behavior against the following.

1 Corinthians 13: 4-7
4 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6 It does not rejoice at injustice andunrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7 Love bears up under anything andeverything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

Let's humbly build each other up and not be found tearing one another down.

God Bless you All
Blessings
W4F

Good advice bro

You are right. I apologize for the calling BA 2004 ignorant. Ultimately, I was simply correlating the things he was saying to what our friend Peter has said because much was taken out of context to what Scripture says as a whole:

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. (2 Peter 3:17)

But it would have been much better to just have quoted that verse in the first place and not have judged a brother.

As it is written:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37)


But before we can do this (walk in perfect Love) we must believe it is possible:

"'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for one who believes." (Mark 9:23)

That will never be possible if everyone believes that Christ cannot set us free from the sinful flesh. That is the ultimate point made in this thread and it took some hashing out to reach this point. Let's keep climbing the mountain, praying for one another, and striving to enter in by the narrow gate. Let us not sit in our transgressions and try to twist Scripture to say that sin is acceptable when the Bible clearly says it is not. May we all be granted the path of true repentance and diligently stay on it.

Praise God

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Ultimately, I was simply correlating the things he was saying to what our friend Peter has said because much was taken out of context to what Scripture says as a whole:

But it's Not our Job to correct others.
This also falls under do not judge lest you be judged.

His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So it's ok to judge others as ignorant because they don't see things in the same way?

As it is written:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37)

Above there has been judgment and condemned guilty.....

That will never be possible if everyone believes that Christ cannot set us free from the sinful flesh.

Christ has Already broken the stronghold of sin or the flesh.
Just like everything else promised to us By Grace.....we must access it through Faith and when we go to possess it, we will find the good fight of faith.

It takes development in Christ to see the flesh get weaker and sin having less of a hold.

Blessings

 

[At Peace]

Example: Our mind can know what is right and desire to do it. Our flesh decides otherwise. The flesh can influence the mind and vice versa. Emotions are influenced by the spirit, mind and body.

It's a good thing God made a way to kill the flesh, bury it, and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)

I want to single out mind from body. Because it is in the mind that we retain free will. It is therefore wrong to say we stop sinning when we lose our earthly body / flesh.

How does one commit sin after death?
If our free will is to serve one God, our body is of no consequence.
The body is always is service to the mind. If the mind is set on God it won't command the body to lie or steal, etc.

 

[KingJ]

You might want to think about that one.
When we lose our earthly body suit, then we can no longer be here in this earth or world.

1. Sin and the curse is only in this world. Once we leave here we will for the first time experience no sin and no curse around us.

2. So where would one sin?
In the grave?
Standing before the Father?
In Heaven?

Blessings

1. Adam's flesh did not sin.

2. There is a grey area around understanding free will in heaven.

I guess we just need to discuss how one exercises free will in heaven. I imagine it being: God says: ''Jim do x and y''. Jim says ''no''. Is that rebellion? Yes. Is it sin? Does Jim have the option to say no? Is there free will in heaven? We can all agree that no free will is evil. We can all agree that God is the epitome of good. Our understanding of Him needs to be based off of this truth. I don't want to imagine a God who says to us in heaven ''surprise surprise, there is no free will''.

I draw the conclusion in my mind that our rebellion in heaven is always sanctified. I believe Jesus bears the scars of the cross for all eternity as a sign and reminder to us all of how and why God accepts us, albeit we are not always doing exactly as He says and desires. There are ranks among angels. There will be ranks among us. We will judge angels.

I guess there will be no death. No rebellion resulting in death. Ie No sin. As sin and death are synonymous.

I had an interesting discussion with someone recently on 1 John 3:8, specifically the part about 'the devil sinning from the beginning'. It went like this. When did the devil start sinning? Me: From day 1. Him: From the day he was on earth. Me: So why did he come to earth. Him: Dope, he sinned in heaven. Me: So day 1 is not day 1 on earth it is in heaven. Him: No day 1 is the day he started sinning in heaven. Me: No, 'in the beginning'' needs to be applied to either earth or heaven. We have proven it is heaven. So day 1 in heaven. The devil has therefore been sinning from day 1, in heaven. So, the next question is thus, what sin got him removed? What are your thoughts on this?

A truly saved Christian cannot have sin that produces death. But we know we all do rebel and ''sin''.

Another way to look at it. ONLY God is perfect. From day 1 to infinity. All those He has created in His image and with the ability to know good and evil, are not perfect. As scripture says ''ALL'' have sinned. If we were ever perfect / good as He is, we would not have ever sinned. Animals are perfect, only because they don't have the ability to rebel. Having the ability to rebel is a privilege and one could argue a necessity from a good God to a highly intelligent creation. As free will is good.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

1. Adam's flesh did not sin.

Hi KJ,
The use of the word flesh has several meanings in God's Word.
It's either the skin or body.
Or
The Action or reaction or human nature.

2. There is a grey area around understanding free will in heaven.

Not as you might think.

One will be in the Presence of Love
One will be in a world where there is no effects of the curse or sin because there is no sin or crime etc in Heaven.

Blessings

 

[Dave M]

Hi KJ,




One will be in a world where there is no effects of the curse or sin because there is no sin or crime etc in Heaven.

Blessings

I agree with this but it begs the question then how did the angels fall ??

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I agree with this but it begs the question then how did the angels fall ??

Disobedience !!
Yep its that simple, they were created to serve and to be obedient unto God.

There is no Grace for them nor is there a Saviour unto them.
They were created as servants.

Makes you glad we were created as man and have Grace.

If it's the how did they disobey if they were created beings to serve thing....
Its the free will thing all over.
God did not create them to choose but to obey BUT He does not create robots or puppets.

Without Grace from the Love of God, man would have totally been destroyed a long time ago.

Blessings
W4F

 

[At Peace]

But it's Not our Job to correct others.
This also falls under do not judge lest you be judged.

I disagree.
Would it be better to allow someone to think they are "right" and then have them cast into the lake of fire?
It is written..."But he that is spiritual judgeth all things," (1 Cor 2:15)
We can't "just let it go" if we see wickedness triumphing.
Even ignorance must be corrected, or we ourselves will face punishment.
It is written..."Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine."(2 Tim 4:2)
Shouldn't we hold fast to this exhortation?

So it's ok to judge others as ignorant because they don't see things in the same way?

If the "same way" has proven itself over the centuries, why would we hide it from the...misimformed.
I'm sure glad someone loved me enough to set me right, in my past.

Christ has Already broken the stronghold of sin or the flesh.
Just like everything else promised to us By Grace.....we must access it through Faith and when we go to possess it, we will find the good fight of faith.
It takes development in Christ to see the flesh get weaker and sin having less of a hold.

Actually. it just takes a real repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
That makes a clean person who is intent on never committing another sin.
It creates a man reborn of God's seed, and incapable of bearing evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)