If your brother sins

[Br. Bear]

What is it you wish to understand?
Not sure what you wanted to know by the ?

I was referring to the conversation between @At Peace and myself concerning the statement he made that we can not forgive some one if they did not directly sin against us.

Hope this is what you were asking.
Blessings to you and your family

Thank you for your explanation. Reading between the lines is not my best attribute.

thank you also for your kind blessings,


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

He will face God in the end no matter if we forgive him or not.
If he repented and took advantage of John 3:16, well he may be your neighbor in heaven.

Blessings to you

You can't take 'advantage' of John 3:16.

That sounds terrible. Unless there is a complete submission to Jesus, there is no John 3:16 advantage.

Remember the young rich man asking Jesus directly what he must do to enter heaven. Jesus did not say, wait for me to die and then take advantage of the cross. He said, he must go and sell all he has.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You can't take 'advantage' of John 3:16.

That sounds terrible. Unless there is a complete submission to Jesus, there is no John 3:16 advantage.

Take Advantage - to apply to ones life

emember the young rich man asking Jesus directly what he must do to enter heaven. Jesus did not say, wait for me to die and then take advantage of the cross. He said, he must go and sell all he has.

Yep he had told Jesus that he had done all the things BUT Jesus knew he lacked in one area.......thats why he said sell all you have and follow me.
Jesus knee this young man's trust was in his wealth.
Blessings to you

 

[KingJ]

You answered your own question.
Hitler and Stalin did nothing to me, so I have nothing to forgive them for.

If you watch any WW2 documentary, they have managed to put horrors in your mind. A Christian can't but get worked up watching all that evil. We are instantly filled with hatred for them. IE We do need to instantly forgive them and hope they met Jesus. Otherwise we harbor a hatred for them.

If we take ISIS as an example. We read something like this: ISIS called on its followers to kill and kidnap Christians in “Russian-occupied” areas

I am instantly enraged by this. I / we need to console and remind each other on the need to forgive and pray for them to meet Jesus. We cannot pray for a wicked person if we hate them. IE Forgiveness, may not be stated but it is implied and wished for when we pray for them.

 

[At Peace]

If you watch any WW2 documentary, they have managed to put horrors in your mind. A Christian can't but get worked up watching all that evil. We are instantly filled with hatred for them. IE We do need to instantly forgive them and hope they met Jesus. Otherwise we harbor a hatred for them.

If we take ISIS as an example. We read something like this: ISIS called on its followers to kill and kidnap Christians in “Russian-occupied” areas

I am instantly enraged by this. I / we need to console and remind each other on the need to forgive and pray for them to meet Jesus. We cannot pray for a wicked person if we hate them. IE Forgiveness, may not be stated but it is implied and wished for when we pray for them.

Why would a Christian hate anybody?
Having been given a new-different Spirit, I can't hate anyone.
We do need to keep praying they will come to repentance from sin, and to meet Jesus, but to hate someone you pray for seems sorta counter-intuitive.

 

[At Peace]

We forgive when we are offended .
It does not matter if they did anything to you or not.

If you have aught against them then you need to repent and forgive.
2 huge guys beat an elderly man to near death. Could not even recognise him. All for about 4 dollars of bottles and cans.
That made me so I angry and I had aught big time against these two. I mean that was lower then low.
They did nothing to me but I still needed to repent and forgive them.
One can have something against another even if nothing was personally done to them.

It is written..."Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:" (Eph 4:26)

If you are "offended", forgive.
But your forgiveness won't absolve them of the deed done to the old man, will it?
It will absolve them of the offending done to you, but that hardly impacts their ultimate judgement.

I exhort you to quit being offended at things you have no contact with.
Realize that the world of the sinner is evil, and avoid it.
Use their "offense" to provoke you to help the needy.
Then you will see that their evil has resulted in good.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It is written..."Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:" (Eph 4:26)

If you are "offended", forgive.
But your forgiveness won't absolve them of the deed done to the old man, will it?
It will absolve them of the offending done to you, but that hardly impacts their ultimate judgement.

I exhort you to quit being offended at things you have no contact with.
Realize that the world of the sinner is evil, and avoid it.
Use their "offense" to provoke you to help the needy.
Then you will see that their evil has resulted in good.

You miss the entire point .

 

[B-A-C]

But your forgiveness won't absolve them of the deed done to the old man, will it?
It will absolve them of the offending done to you, but that hardly impacts their ultimate judgement.

It might not change their judgment, but it will change yours.

Matt 6:14; For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:15; But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Matt 18:33; Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
Matt 18:34; And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

 

[KingJ]

1. Why would a Christian hate anybody?
2. Having been given a new-different Spirit, I can't hate anyone.
3. We do need to keep praying they will come to repentance from sin, and to meet Jesus, but to hate someone you pray for seems sorta counter-intuitive.

1. We shouldn't, I could not agree more, but we do.
2. Sure.
3. Well, you don't hate them when you pray for them and forgive them.

If someone kidnapped your kid, what is your first reaction / thought in respect of the kidnapper?

Many Christians are battling with thoughts of hatred toward the wicked.

 

[At Peace]

It might not change their judgment, but it will change yours.

Matt 6:14; For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:15; But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Matt 18:33; Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
Matt 18:34; And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

As I have nothing to forgive "them" for, it is a moot point.

 

[At Peace]

1. We shouldn't, I could not agree more, but we do.

No, "we" don't.
If our Lord says to love your enemies and we don't...then Jesus is not our Lord.

3. Well, you don't hate them when you pray for them and forgive them

You have found the way to avoid hate.
Congratulations..

If someone kidnapped your kid, what is your first reaction / thought in respect of the kidnapper?

Pray.

Many Christians are battling with thoughts of hatred toward the wicked.

No they aren't.
They obey Christ Jesus instead of hating.

 

[Gabriel Kinson]

Obedience to Christ is the end goal, but that doesn't mean I don't struggle with hating wicked folks. My earthly dad, for example. Evil, evil man. He's been dead almost 7 years, and some of the wounds are so deep, I still sometimes have to put myself in check and confess this to the Father. It has taken over 30 years for me to begin to find the strength to forgive him. It's better now than it was a few years ago, but there are still times when something triggers memories, and I have to quickly recognize it rather than let it fester.

 

[At Peace]

Obedience to Christ is the end goal, but that doesn't mean I don't struggle with hating wicked folks. My earthly dad, for example. Evil, evil man. He's been dead almost 7 years, and some of the wounds are so deep, I still sometimes have to put myself in check and confess this to the Father. It has taken over 30 years for me to begin to find the strength to forgive him. It's better now than it was a few years ago, but there are still times when something triggers memories, and I have to quickly recognize it rather than let it fester.

Thanks for your story.
Please remember that those that have been reborn of God's seed have crucified the old man, so what your dad did in the past hurt the now gone you. (Rom 6:3-6)
He didn't do anything against the new you.
Remember that satan can only use memories from our past to entice us to commit sin, as our new creature has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
If you won't forgive, you won't be forgiven.

 

[KingJ]

Thanks for your story.
Please remember that those that have been reborn of God's seed have crucified the old man, so what your dad did in the past hurt the now gone you. (Rom 6:3-6)
He didn't do anything against the new you.
Remember that satan can only use memories from our past to entice us to commit sin, as our new creature has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
If you won't forgive, you won't be forgiven.

When someone has caused so much pain, forgiveness is ongoing. It is never a once and for all statement. Scars stay with us. Christian advice is to live with them as Christ would.
.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

When someone has caused so much pain, forgiveness is ongoing. It is never a once and for all statement. Scars stay with us. Christian advice is to live with them as Christ would.
.

I agree that forgiveness is on going however here is some truth to this.

Scars are like scabs, if you keep picking at them they will stay wounds and never heal.

There is no wrong to deep that Jesus can not heal, BUT we must do our part and stop the thoughts and apply forgiveness and love and those scars WILL heal up.

Blessings to you

 

[KingJ]

Scars are like scabs, if you keep picking at them they will stay wounds and never heal.

That puts a terrible thought in my head, but it is good advice :wink:.

 

[KingJ]

No, "we" don't.
If our Lord says to love your enemies and we don't...then Jesus is not our Lord.

If I tell my dog to do its business outside and it decides to do it in my house, does it cease being my dog?

We deal with our hatred for the wicked because we approve of it / approve of obeying God. It is not automatic. Many things are and sure some times it can be. But with regards to mortal sins done by others, it is never 'automatic'. It is I believe one of the chief reasons for God saying 'vengeance is mine'.

We are not perfect like God. By you keep telling yourself that you are, you are brainwashing yourself.

 

[At Peace]

When someone has caused so much pain, forgiveness is ongoing. It is never a once and for all statement. Scars stay with us. Christian advice is to live with them as Christ would.
.

I hope you will ditch that false idea, in favor of the actions of Christ and His grace in the newly reborn,
Do you think God will wait for you to forgive others so He can forgive you?
If you want to cling to the past, there will be no future for you in heaven.

 

[At Peace]

If I tell my dog to do its business outside and it decides to do it in my house, does it cease being my dog?

It has usurped your authority as "who is the boss".
You only think he is "your dog".

We deal with our hatred for the wicked because we approve of it / approve of obeying God. It is not automatic. Many things are and sure some times it can be. But with regards to mortal sins done by others, it is never 'automatic'. It is I believe one of the chief reasons for God saying 'vengeance is mine'.

We are not perfect like God. By you keep telling yourself that you are, you are brainwashing yourself.

Your hate...added to your ongoing disobedience to God. per Matt 5:48, gives the clues of what tree you are of.
"We shall know them by their fruit..."
I urge you to repent of this, and all wickedness, and obey God in all things.
He has made the way for this to happen here on earth.

 

[KingJ]

I urge you to repent of this, and all wickedness, and obey God in all things.
He has made the way for this to happen here on earth.

When I stop desiring repentance of my sins, I will worry :wink:.