Child like faith?

[Bendito]

Lie | Define Lie at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/lie
to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive
You seem to be really choking on that word. As I said....Someone was speaking deception, Satan and somebody repeated it. I don't know why we're discussing this...

 

[complete]

'Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father
which is in heaven
is perfect.'
(Mat 5:48)

Hello @At Peace,

Within the context of this verse, the Lord is speaking to His disciples concerning the law of love (verse 43):

'Ye have heard that it hath been said,
'Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.'
But I say unto you,
Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;'

* This is quoted from Leviticus 19:18,

'Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.'

* A neighbour within this context, is a fellow Israelite.

* The Lord expands this concept to include not only their own brethren, not only them that love them, but those who do not, even their enemies. He illustrates this by referring to God the Father, who sends rain on the just as well as the unjust, and makes the sun to rise upon both evil and good men.

* Verse 48, which you have quoted is simply the Lord telling His disciples to walk according the laws of the kingdom which He is teaching them ( 43 - 48), thereby being perfect, as their Father in heaven is perfect, in regard to their moral character regarding this law of love.

* The Lord was speaking to men of Israel, and the keeping of the law was part of the covenant God made with Israel at Sinai,.It was incumbent upon them to keep it. However, we are not under law, but under grace in Christ Jesus.(Rom. 6:14)

'For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'
(Rom 6:14)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[At Peace]

'Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father
which is in heaven
is perfect.'
(Mat 5:48)
Hello @At Peace,
Within the context of this verse, the Lord is speaking to His disciples concerning the law of love (verse 43)
'Ye have heard that it hath been said,
'Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.'
But I say unto you,
Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;'
* This is quoted from Leviticus 19:18,
'Thou shalt not avenge,
nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:
I am the LORD.'
* A neighbour within this context, is a fellow Israelite.
* The Lord expands this concept to include not only their own brethren, not only them that love them, but those who do not, even their enemies. He illustrates this by referring to God the Father, who sends rain on the just as well as the unjust, and makes the sun to rise upon both evil and good men.
* Verse 48, which you have quoted is simply the Lord telling His disciples to walk according the laws of the kingdom which He is teaching them ( 43 - 48), thereby being perfect, as their Father in heaven is perfect, in regard to their moral character regarding this law of love.
* The Lord was speaking to men of Israel, and the keeping of the law was part of the covenant God made with Israel at Sinai,.It was incumbent upon them to keep it. However, we are not under law, but under grace in Christ Jesus.(Rom. 6:14)
'For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'
(Rom 6:14)
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Aren't you glad the Lord "made both one", (Eph 2), enabling both Jew and Gentile to keep the law of Christ?
That being...love God above all else and our neighbor as yourself.
Jesus' words to "old" Israel still apply to the "new" Israel.
Be perfect as your Father is perfect.

 

[HisFollower]

[for me anyway] receiving the kingdom of God as a child is another subject, and faith is another: faith cometh (only) by hearing the Word of God; as for so-called "child like faith" such an thing is not written, and we must needs learn to not think above that which is written to avoid exaggeration and over-estimation. The concept of "child like" is humility, so therefore we ought to say that in humility we shall submit to and rely upon God's Word by denying our own will; then are we clear in the matter.

 

[Hekuran]

[for me anyway] receiving the kingdom of God as a child is another subject, and faith is another: faith cometh (only) by hearing the Word of God; as for so-called "child like faith" such an thing is not written, and we must needs learn to not think above that which is written to avoid exaggeration and over-estimation. The concept of "child like" is humility, so therefore we ought to say that in humility we shall submit to and rely upon God's Word by denying our own will; then are we clear in the matter.

Agree with this. Of course, it's not possible to separate faith and humility completely.

Jesus' teaching in this passage is that we have to drop the baggage of our own importance and status to enter the kingdom.

 

[B-A-C]

If we get back to the OP about "child like faith". I would ask.. "faith in what? faith in who?"

A child doesn't know as much as an adult about certain things. A child flips on a light switch, he believes the light will come on.
He doesn't understand electrical circuits and wiring, he just believes it works. A child doesn't understand cell phone towers, RF
patterns, frequency reception back end networks, they just pick up the phone and use it. They have "faith" that it will work.

When we come to God we don't have to understand it all. In fact, I would say a lot of our pre-conceived ideas and notions of God
are sometimes wrong. Now everyone has faith... faith in something. Faith in Buddha, Allah, Shiva, ... even atheists have faith.
Faith that what they believe is right. So is simply "faith" in something (anything) enough to save you?

Also... coming to God... the initial salvation... maybe that happens with a "child like" understanding.
But what about after we are saved for a while? Does God want us to remain infants... or does He want us to grow and mature
in understanding and faith?

Usually when I ask the question... what or who do we need to have faith in. I get dozens of different answers.
Most often it's something like "faith in Jesus" or "faith in God". But some people don't even believe Jesus is God, so those two answers
can be miles apart. But even if they are wrong initially (children are sometimes wrong in their understanding) do we eventually
have to come to "knowledge of the truth". Or can we continue in error and still be saved? Is faith in "faith" enough to save you?

Also if the answer is simply "faith in Jesus"... I would ask which Jesus?
The Jesus who is not God? The Jesus who had sex with Mary Magdelene? The Jesus that
committed sin? Maybe those things don't matter if I come "like a child". But do they matter as I grow in my understanding?

 

[Hekuran]

If we get back to the OP about "child like faith". I would ask.. "faith in what? faith in who?"

A child doesn't know as much as an adult about certain things. A child flips on a light switch, he believes the light will come on.
He doesn't understand electrical circuits and wiring, he just believes it works. A child doesn't understand cell phone towers, RF
patterns, frequency reception back end networks, they just pick up the phone and use it. They have "faith" that it will work.

When we come to God we don't have to understand it all. In fact, I would say a lot of our pre-conceived ideas and notions of God
are sometimes wrong. Now everyone has faith... faith in something. Faith in Buddha, Allah, Shiva, ... even atheists have faith.
Faith that what they believe is right. So is simply "faith" in something (anything) enough to save you?

Also... coming to God... the initial salvation... maybe that happens with a "child like" understanding.
But what about after we are saved for a while? Does God want us to remain infants... or does He want us to grow and mature
in understanding and faith?

Usually when I ask the question... what or who do we need to have faith in. I get dozens of different answers.
Most often it's something like "faith in Jesus" or "faith in God". But some people don't even believe Jesus is God, so those two answers
can be miles apart. But even if they are wrong initially (children are sometimes wrong in their understanding) do we eventually
have to come to "knowledge of the truth". Or can we continue in error and still be saved? Is faith in "faith" enough to save you?

Also if the answer is simply "faith in Jesus"... I would ask which Jesus?
The Jesus who is not God? The Jesus who had sex with Mary Magdelene? The Jesus that
committed sin? Maybe those things don't matter if I come "like a child". But do they matter as I grow in my understanding?

The op says:

seems to me that we are to trust father God just like a young child trusts his earthly father in a way. as a young child we do not know anything we trust our parents to take care of us we lean on them for everything. It seems to me that is what above scripture is saying trust in God not in yourself, you will never fully understand everything and that ok trust in God.

My understanding is that though this is not exactly what Jesus was driving at in Matthew 13, we should trust in our heavenly father simply, as a young child trusts their earthly father.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If we get back to the OP about "child like faith". I would ask.. "faith in what? faith in who?"

God's Word. His Promises. His ways.

Also... coming to God... the initial salvation... maybe that happens with a "child like" understanding.
But what about after we are saved for a while? Does God want us to remain infants... or does He want us to grow and

It's faith as a child, not understanding of a child.
We need to simply believe what God has said in His Word as truth, final word and simply that's just the way it is.

Problems arise as man begins to study God's Word and uses human understanding and reasoning and comes up with all these theological and doctrinal beliefs. This tends to limit God and His Word because one has strayed from simply taking God's word for what it says.

Take healing for example.
All these doctrinal and theological studies have split the body of Christ into denominations which will not agree with one another .
Some say if God wants to heal
Some say it's not for today
Some say He is a sovereign God and He does what ever He wants .
It goes on and on.

Now child like Faith Concerning the things of God would not give a hoot about any of that and Simply Take God's Word on healing for what it says.

They are the ones who stand and they are the ones who get healed.

Also if the answer is simply "faith in Jesus"... I would ask which Jesus?
The Jesus who is not God? The Jesus who had sex with Mary Magdelene? The Jesus that
committed sin? Maybe those things don't matter if I come "like a child". But do they matter as I grow in my understanding?

As to this......its very strange with all these different made up jesus's.

Again child like Faith has nothing to do with one growing in Christ.
Yes we grow and our Faith grows with more assurance of God's Word but we still need to simply believe without all this religious beliefs of man.
Blessings to you

 

[B-A-C]

As to this......its very strange with all these different made up jesus's.

Perhaps, but nontheless, millions of people believe in them.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Perhaps, but nontheless, millions of people believe in them.

Yea I guess so but I never thought I would read it here.
Blessings to you

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I still can't find any thing that alludes to the child like faith being discussed here in Scripture outside of our need to become children of God.

The conversion renders one a child of the King.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is a difference between Child like and childish.

Child like could be seen as children are innocent, and trust with a pure, uncorrupted heart.

We are instructed to be as such all throughout God's Word .

Childish could be seen as immature and fiolish.

We are warned against this type of attitude throughout God's Written Word.

Blessings

 

[Dave M]

Jim said
"It's faith as a child, not understanding of a child.
We need to simply believe what God has said in His Word as truth, final word and simply that's just the way it is."

excellent point brother and well worth repeating

 

[complete]

Aren't you glad the Lord "made both one", (Eph 2), enabling both Jew and Gentile to keep the law of Christ?
That being...love God above all else and our neighbor as yourself.
Jesus' words to "old" Israel still apply to the "new" Israel.
Be perfect as your Father is perfect.

'But now in Christ Jesus
ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For He is our peace, Who hath made both one,
and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity,
even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
and that He might reconcile both unto God
in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: ... ... '
(Eph 2:13-16)

Hello @At Peace

I am glad that the Lord has made 'both' one, yes. Creating one new man. Believing Jew and believing Gentile now one new man in the Body of Christ, of which He is the Head. Every member of the Body of Christ is reckoned to be 'complete' in Him.

We are not a 'new Israel'. We are not associated with Israel as a nation in any way, or with the law given to them. The nation of Israel to whom the old covenant was made, and to whom the law was given, is at present in a loammi condition ('not My People'), but they will again, one day, be 'My People' once more.

You are right to say that the commandment to love the Lord our God, with all our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbour as ourselves, is the one commandment that Jesus gave, and all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will endeavour to live with that goal in mind, but within the body of Christ, we are already, in the sight of God, holy and without blame. It is our desire to reflect that in our daily lives, yes, both morally and mentally, and to become mature and full grown in our understanding and in our behaviour: but nothing can take away from us the standing we have in Christ already, in the sight of God.

We are to 'go on unto perfection', by enduring unto the end, being faithful even unto death. That we may run the race and gain the crown of righteousness to lay at His feet, as a witness to His keeping power, and the efficacy of His finished work. His Workmanship unto the End.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you, @At Peace
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

A child-like faith
is simply believing
that what God says,
He will assuredly do.




Praise God!

 

[complete]

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath :-
- blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
- According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
- that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
- Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
- To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.

- In whom we have redemption through His blood,
- the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
- Wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

- Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself: that in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
- In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will:
- That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.
- In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
- in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph.1:3-14)

* God has said it, I believe it.- Praise His Holy Name!
* That is Child-like faith.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Chris,

I appreciate your earnestness and question not your faith.
However, simply put, 'child like faith' does not appear in the Scripture.

Once one becomes a son through adoption he, as a child according to the adoption will have complete access to the Father and will from thenceforth enjoy with the full confidence of a son, all the life and liberty of a son.
We know that a son is the child of the father. In the natural, for example, I will always be my mother and father's child and no man can ever take that away. I have children and while I have according to the world let them down as their father, I still love them and they will always be my children no matter how old they are. How much more will those who, through faith, enter in to the household of the living God remain always His beloved children and they know His love for them.

For me, I would rather hear what Jesus said to His Disciples than listen to what man says with his cuteness of reasoning and inventions of terms and phrases that hold no water against the living Word.

What I am seeing is like this: O how sweet and innocent are little children so that must be what Jesus meant! But alas, we drive away the fullness of His instruction to His Disciples as He prepared them for the new life they were to not only receive but minister as Apostles chosen to be the foundation of the Church. We don't need to add a new teaching to His teaching in order to accept His Word.

'Child like faith' is not a Scriptural doctrine and we should not try to make it fit simply because it sounds so nice.
Most certainly I have reasoned that idea into my thinking and made it a place in my ideology because it seemed so innocent and true but I am glad that now my eyes have been opened for me to see that it is not what Jesus was meaning.

I do not want to upset anyone here on this thread but I can not in love remain silent simply because anyone thinks as I once did. Again, in reality, putting all the tenderness of thoughts aside, Jesus was 'building' (for lack of better words that presently come to mind) them up, if I may say, building their faith with many teachings and miracles to the point where He could leave them full of the faith that they would need without any doubt when the time would come for them to receive the fullness of life as sons through the Holy Ghost at Pentecost knowing also that they must first wait amidst the terror of threat and possible uncertainty until that day arrived. While the notion of 'child like faith' seems to be so innocent and true with our carnal reasoning, it would never have sufficed in the face of the opposition, given that they had not yet been fully made Apostles of God and much less children according to promise. Unless of course anyone can become children by some other means?

Can you see that it is contrary to simple fact that until one becomes a child they can not have the faith of a child? Unless you become a child you will never even have what is called 'child like faith' and without the adoption we will not nor can not be children.

Look again and see how often the men to whom the Apostles wrote were called children. Why? Because they had enough child like faith or because they had become as little children and were now of the household of God?

Nicodemus asked Jesus how can a man enter his mother's womb again. Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." John 3:3
Any one born, is born a child.

If you are not willing to be reborn, if you are not willing to become a child, you will never enter in. If you want to see the Kingdom of God you have to become a child of God, first! Nobody will see the Kingdom nor enter in on their own terms nor through the sweet talk of men. There is a way that seems right unto man/men but...


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

May I continue?

Who were delivered from the bondage of Egypt? Only the children of Israel. Because they had child like faith? No. Because they were children according to promise, given to Abraham.
There are those who are children in the flesh and those who are children by faith. So, is it by 'Child like faith'? No. By faith we become children and if children, heirs.

Look again at the Scripture we have. Jesus was talking to His Disciples. He was not talking to the multitude as in 'the sermon on the mount'. He was not telling everyone that they needed to have 'child like faith' in order to become heirs of the Kingdom. No one can or will be an heir according to promise unless they are first children. Impossible even if we declare that with God all things are possible.

Is there anywhere in the Apostles writings that instructs anyone to have 'child like faith'? No. They were addressed as children because they had become children according to the promise, not because they had 'child like faith'.


Bless you all...><>
.

 

[Br. Bear]

When was the last time you told a child to repent or else they would be cast out and would perish? A child with so called 'child like faith' would need to be convicted of sin in order to repent AND would have to realize that they would perish which if they had 'child like faith' they would by man's definition as seen here in this thread, not even contemplate nor consider nor be able to because that would mean that they would have to cease from such 'child like faith' in order to do so.

It throws the whole idea of 'child like faith' into disarray. And we know that one must repent. Why would one accepted have to repent? A child who is convinced already of the father's love and safety would never consider perishing at the hands of his father and isn't that what so many are saying this 'child like faith' is?

Can you see the unreasonableness of such a contradiction?



Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

The closest you (or anyone) will get to this 'child like faith' being spoken of here in this thread will be,

Once one becomes a child they then will have the faith as a child of a loving and faithful God and Father.


Bless you ....><>.