Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?
- Thread starter Sue D.
- Start date
Brother-Paul
Loyal
Greetings Sue,
You have created the thread, well done sister.
Am I right in understanding you are wanting to discuss the errors of RCC beliefs?
Or are you wanting to discuss the RCC beliefs in general?
You have created the thread, well done sister.
Am I right in understanding you are wanting to discuss the errors of RCC beliefs?
Or are you wanting to discuss the RCC beliefs in general?
@King J. -- Scripture needs to be our foundation. The RCC holds Matthew 16:16 - 18 as a main text. Looking back at the context -- back starting with vs 13 "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
vs 14 So they said, "some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
vs 15 "He said to then, "But who do you say that I am?"
vs 16 "Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God."
vs 17 "Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."
vs 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
vs 19 "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Is not this passage stating that Peter is stating that he believes that he, Jesus, is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that God the Father is giving Peter this knowledge -- that the knowledge is that Jesus Christ is the 'rock' / foundation / that the Church being founded On.
That Hades will Not over-come the Church that is built on Jesus Christ as the Cornerstone / Foundation.
I'll admit that I don't really understand vs 19 -- I've heard an explanation For it which made sense at the moment I heard it. My basic understanding is that the 'keys' of the kingdom of heaven would be salvation. I don't understand why the word "key" is plural rather than singular.
But the most important concept is that Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone / Foundation of salvation / Christianity.
vs 14 So they said, "some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
vs 15 "He said to then, "But who do you say that I am?"
vs 16 "Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God."
vs 17 "Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."
vs 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
vs 19 "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Is not this passage stating that Peter is stating that he believes that he, Jesus, is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that God the Father is giving Peter this knowledge -- that the knowledge is that Jesus Christ is the 'rock' / foundation / that the Church being founded On.
That Hades will Not over-come the Church that is built on Jesus Christ as the Cornerstone / Foundation.
I'll admit that I don't really understand vs 19 -- I've heard an explanation For it which made sense at the moment I heard it. My basic understanding is that the 'keys' of the kingdom of heaven would be salvation. I don't understand why the word "key" is plural rather than singular.
But the most important concept is that Jesus Christ is the Cornerstone / Foundation of salvation / Christianity.
Since King J. wanted to have the conversation -- it depends on his comments regarding that which I've started with. Their beliefs compared to Bible. It's NOT my intention to 'bash' any belief system.
@ King J -- another passage that comes to mind is 1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus"
There is no need for going to God through anyone else. By Jesus Christ going to the cross on our behalf -- dying for us and rising again for us -- He became our High Priest -- our one and only needed bridge to God.
The RCC teaches to pray through Mary because she's the mother of Jesus. However, looking at 1 Timothy 2:5.........
So -- your comments
There is no need for going to God through anyone else. By Jesus Christ going to the cross on our behalf -- dying for us and rising again for us -- He became our High Priest -- our one and only needed bridge to God.
The RCC teaches to pray through Mary because she's the mother of Jesus. However, looking at 1 Timothy 2:5.........
So -- your comments
Brother-Paul
Loyal
KingJ
Loyal
The RCC believes Jesus is Lord. Matt 16:16-17 is Peter receiving a revelation from God that the person standing in front of him is the Messiah. Peter / Jews / Judaism have ''always'' drawn a link between the Messiah / Son of God being God due to OT scriptures. The most direct being Isa 9:6. So, yes, the RCC does believe Jesus is the Messiah, God almighty. Just as we do. I really don't understand what your issue is here.
What we learn from this passage is the fact that even the disciple with the most faith, needed a revelation from God of who Jesus was. It speaks to the fact that God drives Christianity. Faith in Jesus being Lord has to be given. As 1 Cor 12:3 explains as well.
Not sure why you are mentioning Hades?
Vs 19, the second half is power given to all Christians.
Vs 18 and the first part of vs 19 are the controversial passages. Not 16, 17 and end of 19. Vs 18 is the one that the RCC uses as the basis for Peter being the first 'pope'.
It is not an ''end of the world'' position / belief. They just see him as ''a'' leader. Not ''the'' Leader.
I believe we cannot blanket Catholics. There are extremists in it like in any other belief system.
The ''only'' issue I have against their belief is the fact that the ''though shalt not make graven images'' commandment was removed. The commandment on ''not coveting'' was made into two. I guess from that amendment a curse on other interpretations be inevitable.
@King J. -- I was including all those verses for context. And it Is vs 18 that the RCC holds that Jesus Christ is giving Peter authority to be the earthly 'foundation' of His Church. And the RCC holds that Peter was the 1st Pope in The church.
And, yes, it Is a big thing in the RCC. That is their basis for the entire line of Popes in the Vatican. The existence of the Vatican isn't Scriptural. No basis for it.
Jerusalem - on the other hand is the 'cornerstone' of Christianity.
In Acts 2 -- Peter stands and addresses the group of Jews at Jerusalem -- that huge gathering on the Day of Pentecost.
And Paul goes on the 3 mission trips to spread the Good News of salvation. Establishes the 7 churches in Asia.
These are not extreme views -- they are basics of RCC. When you've responded to the next part, we'll go on to others.
And, yes, it Is a big thing in the RCC. That is their basis for the entire line of Popes in the Vatican. The existence of the Vatican isn't Scriptural. No basis for it.
Jerusalem - on the other hand is the 'cornerstone' of Christianity.
In Acts 2 -- Peter stands and addresses the group of Jews at Jerusalem -- that huge gathering on the Day of Pentecost.
And Paul goes on the 3 mission trips to spread the Good News of salvation. Establishes the 7 churches in Asia.
These are not extreme views -- they are basics of RCC. When you've responded to the next part, we'll go on to others.
I was just reading through the Apostles Creed -- the only part I'd Disagree with is "and the holy Catholic Church'. And That is Not the Church that Jesus Christ founded.
So -- we have the RCC papacy which is not Biblical. And the praying through Mary -- which is also non-Biblical. And then we have the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? That she never had other children. Her womb was sacred. But Scripture Does tell us that James was one of His brothers. Mark 6:3 "Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters here with us?"
And Matthew 1:25 "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, vs 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus."
And then there are the RCC nuns -- that's certain not in the Bible.
Comments ?!
So -- we have the RCC papacy which is not Biblical. And the praying through Mary -- which is also non-Biblical. And then we have the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? That she never had other children. Her womb was sacred. But Scripture Does tell us that James was one of His brothers. Mark 6:3 "Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters here with us?"
And Matthew 1:25 "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, vs 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus."
And then there are the RCC nuns -- that's certain not in the Bible.
Comments ?!
Dave M
Loyal
yeap they also pray to Mary
and believe they have to go to purgatory before heaven
they used to sell indulgences to get our of purgatory
The praying to Mary is the 2nd subject I'd been getting into
And the purgatory belief is based on a verse in one of the books in the Apocrapha. Don't know which one.
And saying the "Hail Mary's" various amounts of time.
I'm hoping that KingJ. will get in the discussion since he brought it up. He has once. But more would be helpful.
I've been doing some research -- seems that the belief of purgatory comes from 2 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach -- none of which are in the Canon. They were not accepted in the Canon - taken out because they didn't meet the criteria for being accepted. And it does not fit with the rest of the Biblical teachings.,
And the purgatory belief is based on a verse in one of the books in the Apocrapha. Don't know which one.
And saying the "Hail Mary's" various amounts of time.
I'm hoping that KingJ. will get in the discussion since he brought it up. He has once. But more would be helpful.
I've been doing some research -- seems that the belief of purgatory comes from 2 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach -- none of which are in the Canon. They were not accepted in the Canon - taken out because they didn't meet the criteria for being accepted. And it does not fit with the rest of the Biblical teachings.,
Dear Sister Sue,
I do believe that in the context of the Apostles Creed "catholic church" has the meaning of "Universal or General" but once the reformation happened if I'm not mistaken, the capital "C" to signify RCC meaning was given to it. In a way you can blame the Protestants for how it is viewed today! I'm sure the RCC doesn't mind it one bit either!
So, knowing that about what catholic means, and realizing that "creed" is saying that what is written as a statement of ones faith/belief. I have no issue with it as it stands, since the contents can be found spiritually to be valid. It would also be useful for one who might have problems on how to verbalize what they believe with words that communicate understanding.
Then again, we can always find someone who will disagree!
Glad you have started this thread. Let's see if we can keep away from too many references which lead back to any RCC site.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Of course, but you took the step forward to do so and so the thanks. :smile:
KingJ
Loyal
The papacy arose out of a need. That need was the mass murder of Christians. Emperor Constantine was used by God to stop this. Then emperor Theodosius 1, made Christianity the state religion. He knew that this was the only way to properly put an end to the murder and abuse of Christians. They were surrounded by ''wicked'' people. Very wicked.
You sit today in cozy USA typing freely on the internet about your Christian views because God used emperor Theodosius 1.
The only way to keep religion in power was to introduce something like the papacy. Like bishops given control over areas. There was a very long think tank session, I promise you that. It was not '''oh how do we make ourselves gods among men and make a mockery of scripture''.
The pope has never said he is a god. Jesus / A cross is the centerpiece of every church building.
KingJ
Loyal
It may not have been Paul's biblical vision, no, but is it wrong?
Is woman teaching in protestant churches biblical? Wrong?