Predestined?

[Sue D.]

Jesus does not need the Holy Spirit within Him? I already quoted Scriptures that the Spirit of God came upon Him after He came out of the water. Jesus said also He drove out evil spirits by the Spirit of God.

I am surprised you can deny this truth in light of the Scriptures.

No one is denying that That happened. But it wasn't because Jesus needed the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ was here to Be our Savior. He was not in Need of a Savior. He was here to show people / us/ that there was something 'greater that us' existing. The miracles performed Benefited the person -- their Physical lives improved, but they Also places their faith in His ability To heal them. Other's could See their healing. It was no mystery.

He was 100 % human and 100% divine. Very awesome concept and Very true. Our salvation is made possible Because of that truth.

 

[Enxu]

No person Becomes both divine and mortal upon their salvation. Having the Holy Spirit indwelling a person does Not make them deity -- it simply means that part of deity is within us. No one Becomes God. there Is a belief system that teaches that believers Become 'little Gods'. And no we don't. we Are sinners saved by grace. And we can be very thankful for that.

Enxu -- you certainly are finding a lot of heresy in God's Word. that which you are not understanding In God's Word - you are calling heretical teaching by us. But you Do have an enquiring soul.

2 timothy 3 is an interesting chapter. vs 15 and 16. as well as vs 12 and 13

I believe you and the others here who hold to the heresy that Jesus had two natures at the same time is being deceived. Just look at what was being posted, I am the one being told by your posts that Jesus is divine and mortal at the same time whilst He was just a Man simply because He had the Spirit of God in Him.

No, I used the Gospel to prove to you guys that all of you believed in lies but none of you was able to prove otherwise. Those lies are not found in the Gospel. They are extra biblical meanings imposed on the Gospel and none of you have proven to me they are in line with the truth.

Yeah according to 2 Timothy deception will only get worse, so make sure that you don’t become deceived, which you already are. I was never taught by men because for 7 years I only had God and the Bible and was not allowed to go to any church. You don’t have to believe in me, just ask the Spirit of God for the truth. I have been spoken evil by people many times for defending the truth so I know what persecution is.

I fully believe Jesus is divine now and was divine in the OT. But was He divine during those 30+ years as a Man on earth? No, He was fully and only mortal for a period of 30+ years with the Spirit of God dwelling in Him. This belief is what the Gospel plainly teaches.

 

[Sue D.]

Actually -- Jesus's birth was Prophesied to take place in Isaiah 7:14 and Did take place in the New Testament as per that prophesy.

John 10:30 -- "I and My Father are one." Jesus Christ is saying that to the Jews -- they are accusing Him of blasphemy.

While on this earth -- people either accepted Jesus Christ or they rejected Him. They saw His works and saw His crucifixion and yet rejected Him. And 'we' do the same today -- we have God's Word and 'we' either accept Him or reject Him.

the country of China has been closed to openly teaching Bible. there have been missionaries in that country -- they have to be there in professional ways and can't approach people -- but in their professional status -- people Do see Christ in them and Do ask questions. thus, the Gospel Can be shared. Yes, I Do believe that you've experienced persecution. And, we, here are Trying to share the Gospel / Bible with you.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believe on Him, will not perish but have eternal life.".

John 10: 25 - 29.

 

[Curtis]

In fact, Jesus already put on immortality when He resurrected, which is why Thomas called Him Lord and God AFTER His resurrection: which is exactly what Paul taught, that all dead believers will put on immortality upon resurrection. Yet no believer is immortal before the resurrection, and they certainly cannot be both divine and mortal like you falsely believe.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Curtis]

No person Becomes deity upon their salvation.

No one becomes divine at the new birth, but you must have the divine one in you to be saved! (2 Cor 13:5) (Romans 8:9)

 

[Curtis]

Now I'm really confused. What happened to God? It seems we have two Jesus' here. Was Jesus' physical body Jesus? It appears to me that this is some type of Dualism. From what you're saying it seems to me that you believe there is a spiritual man who lives in a temporary body. Is that what you're saying?

There is a spiritual man, which Paul calls the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4), and there is the "natural man" (1 Cor 2:14) which makes up man,s fleshly body with its fleshly mind.

We can either choose to walk in the flesh (natural man), or we can choose to walk in the Spirit. These two parts of man are contrary to each other which is why we are told to put to death the deeds of the body (Romans 8:13) and to renew our carnal (fleshly) mind. (Romans 12:2)

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jesus did not have a sinful body, but he did have to choose to do his Father will not his own!

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- the Holy Spirit does the convicting in a person's heart -- and upon their acceptance of Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- the Holy Spirit comes immediately and indwells the person. The inner peace that a person Will experience upon their salvation Is the Holy Spirit's indwelling taking place and staying put.

I just looked up Romans 8:9 -- we're saying the same thing.

Well -- Jesus knew what His job was here on earth. The human part didn't really want to endure that much suffering -- but His Divine nature knew it was necessary. So He was obedient to His Father's -- even to the point of Him dying For us.

He knew that That was our only hope For salvation. Because there is no other name given ....., by which we Can be saved. Acts 4:12.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus now in His resurrected state in heaven is again God and therefore divine. Jesus is God now again.

Jesus was God while in his physical body, and he is still God in his supernatural spiritual body!

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Enxu]

Hi Enxu,

What I believe is very similar to what you've said here.

It is appalling how these people cannot see the contradiction and confusion of their own beliefs. Even now I am given verses like 1 Timothy 3:16 as defense of the false teaching that Jesus was simultaneously God and man during His time as a Man.

So somehow God manifested in the flesh and yet remained as God, seriously? So is Jesus truly flesh when He remained as God, whom the Scriptures say is Spirit? How can Jesus be flesh and Spirit (God) at the same time?? That is exactly what they believe, but they don’t see the confusion. They fail to see that they are believing in a variation of the gnostic heresy that teach Jesus was a Spirit that only appeared to be flesh. Thus they unknowingly deny that Jesus truly came in the flesh and they instead believe Jesus remained as Spirit (ie. God) while walking the earth. Truly the spirit of deception, the spirit of antichrist that deny Jesus as coming in the flesh, mentioned by apostle John had blinded their minds.

 

[Sue D.]

As the Gospels tell us -- Jesus was born of the virgin Mary -- he was born as any baby was born. But Mary's being a virgin at that time -- made His conception supernatural -- but He was born like every baby has always been born. Except He is the Only Son of God being born to be our Savior. And He ascended back up to the Father in heaven. He was 'God in the flesh' while here on earth. A wonderful mystery indeed.

It's through the Godhead / trinity/ that our salvation Is possible.

 

[Dave M]

He was Man for 30+ years

are you saying he was just like you and me when he was in the flesh??

 

[Dave M]

As the Gospels tell us -- Jesus was born of the virgin Mary -- he was born as any baby was born. But Mary's being a virgin at that time -- made His conception supernatural -- but He was born like every baby has always been born. Except He is the Only Son of God being born to be our Savior. And He ascended back up to the Father in heaven. He was 'God in the flesh' while here on earth. A wonderful mystery indeed.

It's through the Godhead / trinity/ that our salvation Is possible.

Thank You sister Sue !!! I was just about to get to this. , people try to wrap there human minds around God not possible stop trying Jesus clearly said he is God, he was worshiped in human form which only God can be worshiped. People who try to take away the deity of Christ are the Mormons, JHW, and anti-christ they are not followers of Christ. Only deity could dye for the sins of the whole world !!!

 

[Enxu]

The spirit of antichrist talked about by John in 1 John 4:2-3 is truly insidious.

This antichrist spirit first started out at the advent of the church age by teaching the gnostic heresy that Jesus was a Spirit, who did not really come in the flesh but only appeared to be flesh. When that lie was exposed, it taught a heresy that was even more deceptive: that Jesus was both Spirit (God) and man when He walked the earth.

God is Spirit, (John 4:24) and since Jesus truly was flesh during His earthly ministry, He was not Spirit (God) as a Man. Let those who have ears to hear the truth beware of this deception.

 

[Sue D.]

Thank you brother Dave M. for your post.

@Enxu -- it's truly amazing that you are saying these things. Kind of reminds me of Paul in the New Testament -- he Thought he was doing a Good thing by having the Christian's persecuted for their beliefs. But, then, God got his attention on the road to Emaus. -- he was traveling with three men when God got his attention by asking him Why he was doing what he was doing. Once he got his intentions straightened out God was able to use him greatly in writting part of the New Testament books.

And, yes, there are the Gnostic Gospels and they Can sound pretty authentic.

You're saying that God's Word is Not the truth. At least that's what it sounds like. Did you say that you Are a born-again believer? What is that based on.

 

[Butch5]

There is a spiritual man, which Paul calls the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4), and there is the "natural man" (1 Cor 2:14) which makes up man,s fleshly body with its fleshly mind.

We can either choose to walk in the flesh (natural man), or we can choose to walk in the Spirit. These two parts of man are contrary to each other which is why we are told to put to death the deeds of the body (Romans 8:13) and to renew our carnal (fleshly) mind. (Romans 12:2)

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jesus did not have a sinful body, but he did have to choose to do his Father will not his own!

I'm still not sure. What happened to God? Was Jesus a spirit or a man?

I disagree that there is a "spiritual man". As I understand it, man is a physical being in which is the breath or spirit of God. That breath or spirit is NOT man. It is something from God. When a man dies that breath or spirit returns to God and the man returns to the dust.

 

[Enxu]

I have found the name of the heresy believed by these people @Butch5 , it’s called Docetism or perhaps a variation of it. According to gotquestions.org:

“Docetism was an early Christian heresy that promoted a false view of Jesus’ humanity. The word Docetism comes from the Greek dokein, which meant “to seem”; according to Docetism, Jesus Christ only seemed to have a human body like ours.

Docetism allowed that Jesus may have been in some way divine, but it denied His full humanity. Hardcore Docetists taught that Jesus was only a phantasm or an illusion, appearing to be human but having no body at all. Other forms of Docetism taught that Jesus had a “heavenly” body of some type but not a real, natural body of flesh. Docetism was closely related to Gnosticism, which viewed physical matter as inherently evil and spiritual substance as inherently good.”

Source: What is Docetism? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Enxu]

I'm still not sure. What happened to God? Was Jesus a spirit or a man?

I disagree that there is a "spiritual man". As I understand it, man is a physical being in which is the breath or spirit of God. That breath or spirit is NOT man. It is something from God. When a man dies that breath or spirit returns to God and the man returns to the dust.

Exactly what I mean. How can Jesus be both flesh and Spirit (God) when He was a Man? Either He was flesh as a Man or He remained Spirit (God) during His earthly ministry. But these people are so blinded by the spirit of antichrist they can’t see the contradiction. Their beliefs are very close to the heresy of Docetism, whereby they believe that somehow Jesus retained a “heavenly body” and remained Spirit (God) as a Man. But that is pure heresy.

 

[Curtis]

since Jesus truly was flesh during His earthly ministry, He was not Spirit (God) as a Man.

Do you even know that there is a spirit in man?

 

[Enxu]

Do you even know that there is a spirit in man?

The spirit in men never made men Spirit or God. Men remain as flesh and only flesh. Do you now deny this fact?

 

[Curtis]

The spirit in men never made men Spirit or God. Do you now deny this fact?

Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.

You do know the spirit in man is not made up of flesh and blood...right?