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many or few?

Perhaps you would give me the references to those verses, so that I can consider them.

Here is a whole thread about it.

 
No spirit essence no life .Still born
Jehovah's Witnesses have some difficulty with normal Christianity's perception of
Jesus Christ because they don't believe it's possible for someone to exist
simultaneously as a divine being and a created being.

But the fact of the matter is; when the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as
the flesh of John 1:14, he came as not only a physical being but also a spirit being.

1Cor 15:45 . .The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam: a life-
giving spirit.
_
 
1Cor 15:44; It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; And so it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING BEING." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
1Cor 15:47; The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.

The natural body always comes first (obviously Jesus was an exception, He came from heaven). Then the spiritual.
 
1Cor 15:45 . .The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam: a life-
giving spirit.

According to 1John 1:1-2, the Word's life is eternal. So then, it was impossible for
the Word to cease existing as a spirit being when he became a physical being; viz:
the Word came into the world as both a natural being and a supernatural being, i.e.
fully Man and fully God simultaneously.
_
 
Here is a whole thread about it.

Hello @B-A-C,

Thank you for the link, but it does not provide me with verses which deny the truth that salvation, in an evangelical sense, cannot be attained by human effort.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Jehovah's Witnesses have some difficulty with normal Christianity's perception of
Jesus Christ because they don't believe it's possible for someone to exist
simultaneously as a divine being and a created being.

But the fact of the matter is; when the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as
the flesh of John 1:14, he came as not only a physical being but also a spirit being.

1Cor 15:45 . .The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam: a life-
giving spirit.
_

It's possible for someone to exist with the Spirit of Christ in them .

Jesus came to do the will of the father

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


Christians they do the will of another .If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him. Two is the witness of God .The Father and Son of man . Jesus the chief apostle said his flesh profits for nothing.
 
Thank you for the link, but it does not provide me with verses which deny the truth that salvation, in an evangelical sense, cannot be attained by human effort.

Let's try this a little differently. People don't see what they don't want to see.

In Matt 25, what is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Yes one goes to everlasting life, the other goes to eternal punishment... but that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking why.. why does one group go here,
and the other group go there.

Also in Matt 25, what is the difference between the two "good and faithful" servants, and the one "wicked and lazy servant". I'm not asking where they end up, I'm asking why they end up where they end up.

In 1Cor 6:9-10; what keeps these people from entering the kingdom of heaven?

There are more passages, but let us start with these.
 
Let's try this a little differently. People don't see what they don't want to see.

In Matt 25, what is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Yes one goes to everlasting life, the other goes to eternal punishment... but that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking why.. why does one group go here,
and the other group go there.

Also in Matt 25, what is the difference between the two "good and faithful" servants, and the one "wicked and lazy servant". I'm not asking where they end up, I'm asking why they end up where they end up.

In 1Cor 6:9-10; what keeps these people from entering the kingdom of heaven?

There are more passages, but let us start with these.

Because they have no faith coming from Christ . God had mercy and grace on Abel and on Cain he did not. Cain's heart remained hard Abel 's was made soft by the water of the word.
 
Because they have no faith coming from Christ . God had mercy and grace on Abel and on Cain he did not. Cain's heart remained hard Abel 's was made soft by the water of the word.

Try again, the word isn't anywhere in those passages. But we can assume everyone in those passages had faith.
 
Let's try this a little differently. People don't see what they don't want to see.

In Matt 25, what is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Yes one goes to everlasting life, the other goes to eternal punishment... but that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking why.. why does one group go here,
and the other group go there.

Also in Matt 25, what is the difference between the two "good and faithful" servants, and the one "wicked and lazy servant". I'm not asking where they end up, I'm asking why they end up where they end up.

In 1Cor 6:9-10; what keeps these people from entering the kingdom of heaven?

There are more passages, but let us start with these.
It all comes down to obedience. The sheep hear the shepherd's voice and follow; the goats don't. The good and faithful servents do what the master expects of them; the wicked doesn't. It's that simple, and that complicated at the same time.
 
Up until B-A-C asked about the sheep and goats -- I'd never given it much thought.

However, Yes, JerryfromMass -- that Does make sense -- Jesus Christ is the shepherd and the sheep hear His voice and follow Him.
 
I'd never given it much thought.

There will be lot's of people who never gave it any thought. These will be the goats.
Saying I never thought about it won't be a good enough excuse, on that day when He separates the two groups.
 
Didn't say I'd never give it Any thought.

I've been a born again believer for many years.
 
Let's try this a little differently. People don't see what they don't want to see.

In Matthew 25, what is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Yes one goes to everlasting life, the other goes to eternal punishment... but that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking why.. why does one group go here,
and the other group go there.

Also in Matt 25, what is the difference between the two "good and faithful" servants, and the one "wicked and lazy servant". I'm not asking where they end up, I'm asking why they end up where they end up.

In 1Cor 6:9-10; what keeps these people from entering the kingdom of heaven?

There are more passages, but let us start with these.
Hello @B-A-C,

I am willing to look at these passages, in the way you suggest starting with Matthew 25:31-46:-

(31-32a)
When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him,
then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
And before Him shall be gathered all nations:


* The Son of man has come, with His angels, and is sitting upon the throne of His glory. Before Him He gathers THE NATIONS. (there is no resurrection here, this takes place on the earth - Isaiah 34:1-2; Joel 3:1, 2, 11). These are not individuals but NATIONS being judged, at the end of the age, and they are judged according to how they have treated the Lord's BRETHREN. These are not, 'believers or unbelievers', for they had been 'taken out of all nations' (Acts 15:14) by this time.

* These NATIONS were judged according to their works. The age of grace having passed.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Let's try this a little differently. People don't see what they don't want to see.

In Matt 25, what is the difference between a sheep and a goat? Yes one goes to everlasting life, the other goes to eternal punishment... but that's not what I'm asking, I'm asking why.. why does one group go here,
and the other group go there.

Also in Matt 25, what is the difference between the two "good and faithful" servants, and the one "wicked and lazy servant". I'm not asking where they end up, I'm asking why they end up where they end up.

In 1Cor 6:9-10; what keeps these people from entering the kingdom of heaven?

There are more passages, but let us start with these.
'Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,
nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners,
shall inherit the kingdom of God.'

(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

Hello again @B-A-C,

Coming now to your second reference, in 1 Corinthians (6:9-10), I will seek to answer your question regarding it. 'What keeps these people from entering the Kingdom of Heaven?

These people are 'unrighteous', unlike those to whom the letter of Paul to the Corinthians were addressed, for as he says in the following verse:-

'And such were some of you:
but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified
in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.'

(1 Corinthians 6:11)

* The Believing community at Corinth had been guilty of the things listed above in verses 9-10, but they 'are washed' and 'sanctified' and 'justified', in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of God.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Try again, the word isn't anywhere in those passages. But we can assume everyone in those passages had faith.


Thanks I can try.

Why would you assume everyone in those passages had faith or salvation? Whose faith ?

The Bible reckons all of humanity as faithless .Not little none. little is attributed to those who do have faith .

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, (no faith) that he might have mercy upon all.

If we look to the ceremonial laws as shadows. They were fulfilled at the time of the first century reformation. The first born male represented the Lamb of God slain from the foundation. . as a ceremonial law (shadow) It could be taken form either sheep or goats. It represents the first born as those born from above as sons of God. (The believers)

Exodus 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

Goats are used to represent deception. Jacob was used as scapegoat before his name was change to Israel which means. . he who wrestles with flesh and blood the the temporal things seen and because he had the born again Spirt of Christ he overcomes the desires of the flesh of Jacob . Israel represents a inward Jew born again or the new name propmised in Isaiah 62 that the Father promised to name his bride (Christian in Acts ).

Jacob with the help of his mother used goat hair to represent deception.

The veil that covers the Holy of Holies which represented the foreskin of circumcision as a parable hid the mystery . (no man Jewish or gentile was sitting inside)

Leviticus 16:10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Slew the one lamb or goat let the other go free .The gospel in that parable.

Mathew 4 informs us the Father sent the Son as a scapegoat into the wilderness at the beginning of their combined ministry of two . The father gave His Son words to rebuke the father of lies. Three with three denoting the end of the matter came the words of prophecy .(as it is written) again and again then the devil did flee. . strike three .

In that way two is used to represent the work of the father and Son .Two is the witness of God throughout the Bible. Three represents the end of a matter.
 
And a word can be Capitalized and means something different than when it's in
'lower-case' -- Word and word /// god and God.
Capitalizations are helpful, but not essential. In point of fact, they can be downright
misleading. A case in point is Matt 22:41-46, which was addressed in post No. 768.

Another case in point is John 1:1

FAQ: Which of the two versions listed below is closest to a precise translation?

1» John 1:1 . .The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2» John 1:1 . . The Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

A: Both are equally closest

The common Greek word for god/God is theós which is sometimes translated
in upper case when it's modified by the little Greek definite article ho

In other words: in some people's thinking; ho theós pertains to the supreme being
whereas theós is somewhat flexible when it isn't modified by ho. For example
John 1:18 and John 20:17 where theós is translated in upper case though it be not
modified by ho.

However, according to Dr. Archibald T. Robertson's "Grammar Of The Greek New
Testament", page 767: in regards to nouns in the predicate; the article is not
essential to speech. In other words: when theόs is in the predicate, ho can be
either used, or not used, without making any real difference.

So then; a translator's decision whether to capitalize theόs in John 1:1 or not to
capitalize, is entirely arbitrary rather than dictated by a strict rule of Greek
grammar. In other words: upper and lower case spellings sometimes represent
interpretations rather than translations.

Some folks prefer that the Word be a lower case theόs because it's agreeable with
their version of Christ's divinity; whereas others prefer the Word to be an upper
case theόs for the same reason.

FYI: When discussing John 1:1 with a well-trained Jehovah's Witness, it is highly
recommended to avoid making an issue of capitalization. That argument is just too
weak. It might be helpful to quote Dr. Robertson, but even that may not be
advisable when talking with an experienced Witness because they'll likely derail
the discussion by challenging your knowledge of the Greek language.

These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute standard Christian
doctrines, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in ways they've
already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

It is my personal opinion that unless you're a wiz kid with the Bible, it's not a good
idea to attempt to evangelize a well trained Watchtower Society missionary as I can
just about guarantee that a skilled JW is better at evangelizing you than you are
them. If you think that your own gospel message is some sort of silver bullet; you'll
find out right quick that their silver bullets are quite likely bigger than yours.
_
 
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* The Son of man has come, with His angels, and is sitting upon the throne of His glory. Before Him He gathers THE NATIONS. (there is no resurrection here, this takes place on the earth - Isaiah 34:1-2; Joel 3:1, 2, 11). These are not individuals but NATIONS being judged, at the end of the age, and they are judged according to how they have treated the Lord's BRETHREN. These are not, 'believers or unbelievers', for they had been 'taken out of all nations' (Acts 15:14) by this time.

What do you think the nations are made up of? Land? Cars? Buildings? Do you think these things will be judged?
The nations are made of of people. It is people being judged, for what they did or didn't do to other people. There is no escaping this fact. There is no getting around this.

Let us go with your statement, "these are hot believers or unbelievers". It says ...

Matt 25:34; Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Do you think 'nations' will "inherit the kingdom prepared for you" or do you think people will? And since you think there are unbelievers included in this group, do you think unbelievers will inherit this kingdom as well?

You don't think believers are in "all nations"?

You can't judge the nations without judging people. But even if you could, that wouldn't explain the wicked and lazy slave.
 
Why would you assume everyone in those passages had faith or salvation? Whose faith ?

Matt 25:34; Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Enough faith in the right things to "the kingdom prepared for you".

Matt 25:21; His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your Lord.'

Enough faith in the right things to "Enter into the joy of you Lord".

Without Jesus, these things won't happen.
 
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