Is addiction a sin or is it disease ??

[Born Again 2004]

Is addiction a sin or is it disease ?? that is the question, please back up your answer with Love and patience with those that do not agree with you, and of course scripture.
difference. the context of this platform, It is a sin.
Anything that God is not is a sin, whether or not man classifies it as a disease, makes no diffetence.

 

[Shaolin]

Shaolin, I'm not sure that's true. Addiction speaks to chemical processes within the behavioral systems of the brain, and there seems to be certain genetic predispositions that respond with addictive behavior when certain chemical receptors are antagonized, even if only once. While not specific to addiction, I have had the experience whereby one pill of a certain medication (ONE PILL) reset my overall muscle tension when at rest - it altered certain "set points" in my brain that would trigger torticollis. It was completely unexpected and far from the norm. After my first chiropractic adjustment at age 30, I was an inch taller instantly and grew another inch over the next year (and wound up with a very hairy back). My point is that while the Psalmist says we are "fearfully and wonderfully made," the physical body is also horrifically complex and unpredictable, and I provide for you a simple chart of the Krebs cycle of chemical reactions that is in each and every cell of one's body:

Here's how one knows that willpower is nearly ineffective.... go ahead, use your willpower to grow hair on your head. Use willpower to stop your beard from growing. I am constantly amazed at how many Christians (present company excepted) think that bondage to sin can be broken by an individual's willpower. And, after all, isn't bondage to sin just another way of saying "addiction" ??

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.​

(Romans 7:14-17 KJV)​

Paul directly stated that " I " was not doing it, that it's not a matter of willpower, but that a "sin compulsion" causes people to sin. This is the bondage for which Jesus came to set us free.

(I am also constantly amazed at how many Christians are amazed that sinners sin. How could they help but not?)

Good to see you here,
Rhema

Just saw this (or just remembered it...who knows...), and thanks. I am well aware of the Krebs cycle (I published that detailed examination of the theory of evolution, remember?) and this was one of the many biophysical-biochemical cycles that I used in demonstrating the utter futility of TOE. Anyways...what the Krebs cycle has to do with addiction, I miss your point!

I am aware that certain illegal drugs can cause a person to immediately become addicted to it, but since those are illegal, and the Christian is supposed to be walking in obedience to "the law of the land" where it does not conflict with God's Law, the answer is still the same, no?

Or, we could take pornography for another example, which I battled as a young man. Epinephrine is released in the male brain when it is sexually stimulated, and gives us men a high even if we fail to recognize it. By looking at a nude woman, that chemical is released...and if we add a certain action while looking as said nudity, even more epinephrine is released. Soon, this guy is looking for ways to sneak pornography any way he can because he has become addicted to the epinephrine high he gets by looking and doing. In such a case, since Scripture tells us not to engage in sexual immorality (which includes looking at nudity), while this addiction didn't start right away, the act that led to it is a sin.

Once the addiction has started, you are pretty much helpless to stop on your own, will power cannot help you very much because it has nothing to do with will power. This goes in spades for sin...as you mentioned, Paul points out that sin dwells in the flesh, so as long as we live in this mortal body - UNLESS we have renewed our minds so that we can walk in the Spirit (which we are commanded to do, but which those who call themselves Christians rarely do) - we will fight against the sin nature practically every day of our lives.

Blessings...

 

[Born Again 2004]

Just saw this (or just remembered it...who knows...), and thanks. I am well aware of the Krebs cycle (I published that detailed examination of the theory of evolution, remember?) and this was one of the many biophysical-biochemical cycles that I used in demonstrating the utter futility of TOE. Anyways...what the Krebs cycle has to do with addiction, I miss your point!

I am aware that certain illegal drugs can cause a person to immediately become addicted to it, but since those are illegal, and the Christian is supposed to be walking in obedience to "the law of the land" where it does not conflict with God's Law, the answer is still the same, no?

Or, we could take pornography for another example, which I battled as a young man. Epinephrine is released in the male brain when it is sexually stimulated, and gives us men a high even if we fail to recognize it. By looking at a nude woman, that chemical is released...and if we add a certain action while looking as said nudity, even more epinephrine is released. Soon, this guy is looking for ways to sneak pornography any way he can because he has become addicted to the epinephrine high he gets by looking and doing. In such a case, since Scripture tells us not to engage in sexual immorality (which includes looking at nudity), while this addiction didn't start right away, the act that led to it is a sin.

Once the addiction has started, you are pretty much helpless to stop on your own, will power cannot help you very much because it has nothing to do with will power. This goes in spades for sin...as you mentioned, Paul points out that sin dwells in the flesh, so as long as we live in this mortal body - UNLESS we have renewed our minds so that we can walk in the Spirit (which we are commanded to do, but which those who call themselves Christians rarely do) - we will fight against the sin nature practically every day of our lives.

Blessings...

Maybe I just
don't get it. In the context of Talk Jesus, it doesn't matter how you look at it.

No matter how Man looks at it... a sin or an addiction, it is a sin to God.
Either way , a sin or an addiction, they are both a sin because sin is a sin and an addiction is a sin; God has neither!

 

[Shaolin]

Maybe I just
don't get it. In the context of Talk Jesus, it doesn't matter how you look at it.

No matter how Man looks at it... a sin or an addiction, it is a sin to God.
Either way , a sin or an addiction, they are both a sin because sin is a sin and an addiction is a sin; God has neither!

2004? No insult intended, but perhaps you are not that spiritually mature yet. I am addicted to God...that is not a sin. What makes an addiction a sin is if it is an addiction to something that is either inherently sinful in and of itself, or if it takes you away from God. Look at the facts of what an addiction is and go by the facts, not what someone else (or your feelings) tells you. There is nothing inherently sinful in the definition of what an addiction is.

Now, perhaps you are only thinking alcohol, or sex, or something else and not looking at the whole picture. I don't know, I'm not you. Or, perhaps you have lived a history of addiction to something and your words here are a knee-jerk reaction because you are now so against addiction in any form, that it is your emotions talking without the intelligence factor being engaged (again, no insult intended). Again, I don't know. One thing we can say is that an addiction - contrary to modern day nonsense - is not a disease. It can bring diseases depending upon what that addiction is, but it is not a disease.

There are no genetic precursors to addiction. There is no virus or germ that causes addiction. What a disease is defined as, such an addiction does not meet...because it is not a disease. People say that it is in order to ease the consciences of those who are in the throngs of an addiction. That is like saying sex outside marriage isn't a sin, just to ease someone's mind who is worried that he will go to hell because he is engaged in extramarital sex. It is a lie.

 

[Born Again 2004]

2004? No insult intended, but perhaps you are not that spiritually mature yet. I am addicted to God...that is not a sin. What makes an addiction a sin is if it is an addiction to something that is either inherently sinful in and of itself, or if it takes you away from God. Look at the facts of what an addiction is and go by the facts, not what someone else (or your feelings) tells you. There is nothing inherently sinful in the definition of what an addiction is.

Now, perhaps you are only thinking alcohol, or sex, or something else and not looking at the whole picture. I don't know, I'm not you. Or, perhaps you have lived a history of addiction to something and your words here are a knee-jerk reaction because you are now so against addiction in any form, that it is your emotions talking without the intelligence factor being engaged (again, no insult intended). Again, I don't know. One thing we can say is that an addiction - contrary to modern day nonsense - is not a disease. It can bring diseases depending upon what that addiction is, but it is not a disease.

There are no genetic precursors to addiction. There is no virus or germ that causes addiction. What a disease is defined as, such an addiction does not meet...because it is not a disease. People say that it is in order to ease the consciences of those who are in the throngs of an addiction. That is like saying sex outside marriage isn't a sin, just to ease someone's mind who is worried that he will go to hell because he is engaged in extramarital sex. It is a lie.

You make a "Mountain out of a mole hill" and have no clue what I was referring too!

Obviously you have no concept who God is or else you would not have gone where you did.

He, God, is perfect and Holy, has no sin and no addictions and how you came up with all you did surpasses all understanding .

 

[Born Again 2004]

You make a "Mountain out of a mole hill" and have no clue what I was referring too!

Obviously you have no concept who God is or else you would not have gone where you did.

He, God, is perfect and Holy, has no sin and no addictions and how you came up with all you did surpasses all understanding .

Besides, if you had a True Addiction to God you wouldn't talk like !!!

 

[Rhema]

I am aware that certain illegal drugs can cause a person to immediately become addicted to it, but since those are illegal, and the Christian is supposed to be walking in obedience

When did the discussion become limited to addiction for Christians only?

I repeat the OP to show that the topic was not limited to a Christian demographic.

Is addiction a sin or is it disease ?? that is the question, please back up your answer with Love and patience with those that do not agree with you, and of course scripture.

.
.
.

Scripture tells us not to engage in sexual immorality (which includes looking at nudity),

To play devil's advocate, might you post a scripture to support this assertion?

Once the addiction has started, you are pretty much helpless to stop on your own, will power cannot help you very much because it has nothing to do with will power. This goes in spades for sin...as you mentioned

BINGO !! Yes, two major religions - Judaism and Islam are founded upon human willpower and shall always fail. Only the regeneration of the Holy Spirit can deliver anyone from sin.

UNLESS we have renewed our minds so that we can walk in the Spirit (which we are commanded to do, but which those who call themselves Christians rarely do) - we will fight against the sin nature practically every day of our lives.

The process is always indirect.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

but since those are illegal,

Which came first, the addiction of the drug or its illegality? (Obviously certain substances were made illegal because they were recognized to cause addiction.)

So there was a time when those were not illegal.

Just sayin'

Keep the faith,
Rhema

(Bonus points for identifying the all time worst drug pusher throughout all time).

 

[Rhema]

Either way , a sin or an addiction, they are both a sin because sin is a sin and an addiction is a sin; God has neither!

Just curious where you ever got the idea that @Shaolin ever stated, suggested, or even implied that God had sin or addiction?

Your reply to him seems to be a disconnect from his post, and I don't follow your point.

TIA,
Rhema

 

[Shaolin]

You make a "Mountain out of a mole hill" and have no clue what I was referring too!

Obviously you have no concept who God is or else you would not have gone where you did.

He, God, is perfect and Holy, has no sin and no addictions and how you came up with all you did surpasses all understanding .

You are right...we are on two different levels. I talk facts, and you go with want you want to go with. That's OK.

Have a nice day.

 

[Shaolin]

Which came first, the addiction of the drug or its illegality? (Obviously certain substances were made illegal because they were recognized to cause addiction.)

So there was a time when those were not illegal.

Just sayin'

Keep the faith,
Rhema

(Bonus points for identifying the all time worst drug pusher throughout all time).

LOL! But remember, as children of God we are not to give our minds over to anything but God, so the guy who smoked weed before it was illegal was still "illegal" in God's eyes! When we give our minds over to the influence of anything but God, we are lending ourselves to be satan's playground.

Blessings

 

[Shaolin]

When did the discussion become limited to addiction for Christians only?

To me it was implied...since when do non-Christians care if they are sinning?

To play devil's advocate, might you post a scripture to support this assertion?

Leviticus 18...pretty much the whole chapter. The short of it is that we are not to look at nudity period (unless it is of your spouse, of course), because it leads to sexual sin.

BINGO !! Yes, two major religions - Judaism and Islam are founded upon human willpower and shall always fail. Only the regeneration of the Holy Spirit can deliver anyone from sin.

When I spoke of will power in that post, I was referring to the will power of the flesh...and in that regard I have never had much of it...at all. Having said that, there is a program that God has instituted by His Spirit and in His Word, whereby if a believer renews his mind with the thoughts of God and pushes out the thoughts of the world, that believer enters into another plane of existence - walking in the spirit. In that plane, "will power" becomes something energized by the Spirit of God and has to do with one's spirit rather than his flesh.

The process is always indirect.

I run into more Christians (or they call themselves one, anyway) who seem to believe that God does everything in them or for them directly..."God will deliver you from that mess..." Well, sometimes He does depending upon what it is, and sometimes He doesn't...because He has set the way for us to walk in order to overcome, but because of false teachings in the church, and because of false pastors who cannot fulfill the office of pastor because they were never called by God into that position (they called themselves), they don't teach their congregations "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26).

The church today is weak and beggerly because of false pastors and false teachings, which people come to because they don't think they need to learn how to read, study, and interpret Scripture. Most believe all they have to do is read it and they will get what they are reading. The evidence demonstrates otherwise!

 

[Shaolin]

Besides, if you had a True Addiction to God you wouldn't talk like !!!

I wouldn't talk like what? Did I call you a name? Was I rude? I am sorry, but it is you who came out of nowhere with the nonsense that you said, not me. Anyways, it seems as if it is time to part ways. Thanks anyways.

Blessings

 

[Born Again 2004]

Just curious where you ever got the idea that @Shaolin ever stated, suggested, or even implied that God had sin or addiction?

Your reply to him seems to be a disconnect from his post, and I don't follow your point.

TIA,
Rhema

I NEVER implied that, it's just the way you like to take it!

My point is the whole discussion is silly!
This site is called Talk Jesus for a reason ; it could very well be called, Talk God. Never the less, God has no sin, INCLUDING an addiction of ANYTHING!!!

 

[Rhema]

To me it was implied...since when do non-Christians care if they are sinning?

When they are sinned against !!
JERRY !! JERRY !! JERRY !!
(.... aka the Jerry Springer show for our non-American folk.)

Also, right before they repent, when things get uncontrollable bad.

But isn't the Holy Spirit bringing conviction to everyone when needed?? (and when isn't it ?)

Leviticus 18...pretty much the whole chapter. The short of it is that we are not to look at nudity period (unless it is of your spouse, of course), because it leads to sexual sin.

BURQA !! BURQA !! BURQA !!

(Now in non-Amish colors ...)

I would suggest, thought that we might have a different take on Lev. 18.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I NEVER implied that, it's just the way you like to take it!

Well... you did.
And I'm not the only one who thought so.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Born Again 2004]

Well... you did.
And I'm not the only one who thought so.

Thanks,
Rhema

Ok, show details that I did or hush up about it already! And I am not the only one who thinks so!!

 

[Shaolin]

When they are sinned against !!
JERRY !! JERRY !! JERRY !!
(.... aka the Jerry Springer show for our non-American folk.)

Also, right before they repent, when things get uncontrollable bad.

But isn't the Holy Spirit bringing conviction to everyone when needed?? (and when isn't it ?)


BURQA !! BURQA !! BURQA !!

(Now in non-Amish colors ...)

I would suggest, thought that we might have a different take on Lev. 18.

Rhema

I didn't quite catch that last sentence, but I don't interpret Lev. 18 as speaking about head, face, arms, or legs - but specifically sexually explicit "skin." Chest, abdomen, groin/buttocks area, and legs (on women, thighs especially)...that is what I believe Lev. 18 addresses - basically any part of the body that will cause a normal person to become sexually aroused (I am not talking about freaks or sin-laddened folks who get "turned on" just be looking at someone's arm hairs or whatever...).

 

[Shaolin]

I NEVER implied that, it's just the way you like to take it!

My point is the whole discussion is silly!
This site is called Talk Jesus for a reason ; it could very well be called, Talk God. Never the less, God has no sin, INCLUDING an addiction of ANYTHING!!!

Yes, but you are coming out of the wood work here with stuff that has nothing to do with the OP. It doesn't matter if God doesn't have sin or can never become addicted to anything, we are not talking about GOD...the OP addresses human beings and addiction. You coming out of nowhere like you have done ...honestly...makes it seem like you have no clue about the discussion at all. No insult intended, but that's what it looks like.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Is addiction a sin or is it disease ?? that is the question, please back up your answer with Love and patience with those that do not agree with you, and of course scripture.

Greetings @Dave M

Firstly, this thread has become a nasty argumentative discussion.
I do apologise on behalf of Talk Jesus that it has turned out this way.
Reply bans have been placed on a couple of members.

Addiction in itself is a disease, - the bodies need for a substance or activity that it has become physically or mentally dependent upon.

Feeding that addiction constantly and not trusting the Lord to deliver is sin.
Christians might as well say - I don't trust Christ to deliver me from that addiction to smoking, coffee, alcohol etc
And they are really saying...... I prefer keeping up that addiction rather than giving it up......preferring to stay addicted and dismissing Christ.
It is like saying:

Alcohol is better than Jesus
Tobacco is better than Jesus
Drugs are better than Jesus
Gambling is better than Jesus
Coffee is better than Jesus*

One might as well say .......He is not able

But praise God He is able.


Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Jude verses 24 and 25

* I am not finger pointing. I have been an alcohol and substance user in the past......Delivered from it Praise the Lord
I have been drinking between 3 and 5 coffees per day .....didn't think I was addicted until I tried not to have one and felt quite jittery.
My body obviously craves. I listed to a sermon on caffeine addiction. Have cut down and will stop.