Why don't you believe in the Rapture?

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Christ4Ever said:
Not to be exact of course... :)
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Humor over dry typeface can be hard so here's my attempt

@Admon Mikha'el

Nick,
Admon's probably verifying these computations by looking thru his telescope with the left eye and writing down his mathematical observations with his right eye, watching his right hand writing. The significant figures keep on going and he has ran out of paper...Pi day is over but no, not it's non-repeating decimal numbers; it's infinite like "Someone else" we know.

Blessings to both y'all.

I gotta get back to work.
 
Christ4Ever said:
Dear Brother,
Actually, Jupiter would be 11 times the size of Earth. If it has to be 3 times the size, then it would more likely be the size of Mars.
Used to love astronomy back in the day! Realized at a very young age the existence of God, while looking at the night sky! :)

God bless.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
Click to expand...

Good to know!!!

The first thing that tipped me off on the size of the new earth, is comparing the size of the New Jerusalem that will be coming down out of heaven...have you ever looked into that and figured it out before? If earth isn't bigger than it is right now on that day, then the top of the City will be in outer space (out of earth's atmosphere) sticking out like a sore thumb! It passes the now height of where jumbo jets fly!

Blessings!

..
 
Mister said:
Humor over dry typeface can be hard so here's my attempt

@Admon Mikha'el

Nick,
Admon's probably verifying these computations by looking thru his telescope with the left eye and writing down his mathematical observations with his right eye, watching his right hand writing. The significant figures keep on going and he has ran out of paper...Pi day is over but no, not it's non-repeating decimal numbers; it's infinite like "Someone else" we know.

Blessings to both y'all.

I gotta get back to work.
Click to expand...
Mister What are you babbling about?
 
So, so far, these are the passages that address the Rapture event...non-specific to its timing:

Matthew 24:36-44
36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

We know that this passage pertains to the Rapture and not the second coming, because we can calculate when the Second Coming will be.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God.

We know that this verse does not address the Second Coming, but the rapture event, because the Second Coming occurs after the time of the wrath of God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

Philippians 3:20-21
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like His glorious body, by the power that enables Him even to subject all things to Himself.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Same comment as from Romans 5:9.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep.
15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-9
1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you.
2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.
5 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.
6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night.
8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Same for this passage above...the Day of Yahweh (most English translations say "the Day of the LORD") will not come like a thief in the night - everyone upon the face of the whole earth will know what day that is.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only He who now restrains it will do so until He is out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of His mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of His coming.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept My word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.


These are what I have gathered so far, if anyone knows of others that I have missed, please by all means post them so I can have a complete study base.

Thank you!

..
 
Shaolin said:
So, so far, these are the passages that address the Rapture event...non-specific to its timing:

Matthew 24:36-44
36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

We know that this passage pertains to the Rapture and not the second coming, because we can calculate when the Second Coming will be.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God.

We know that this verse does not address the Second Coming, but the rapture event, because the Second Coming occurs after the time of the wrath of God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

Philippians 3:20-21
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like His glorious body, by the power that enables Him even to subject all things to Himself.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Same comment as from Romans 5:9.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep.
15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-9
1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you.
2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.
5 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness.
6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night.
8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Same for this passage above...the Day of Yahweh (most English translations say "the Day of the LORD") will not come like a thief in the night - everyone upon the face of the whole earth will know what day that is.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only He who now restrains it will do so until He is out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of His mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of His coming.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept My word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.


These are what I have gathered so far, if anyone knows of others that I have missed, please by all means post them so I can have a complete study base.

Thank you!

..
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Dear Brother,
Thanks for bringing the thread back online with the topic of the thread.
Apologies for diverting it!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
Yeah... well... that's actually a real translation problem. The word "THE" (the direct article) is not in the Greek text...

Best not to structure an interpretation based upon direct articles from English that are not present in the initial manuscripts. The word 'the' isn't there. My take is that this is the same Resurrection, but into different "states" of being. (I'm reluctant to say "locations," as that brings an unintended reference into the text.)
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Yeah... well... either you believe God has preserved his words forever (ala Psa. 12:6-7) , or you chase after those whose fun is to criticize the Holy Bible aka bible critics. Your "problem"is not with me; it's with God's words i.e. the Holy Bible.
 
backNforth said:
The problem is, people don't know what a Jew is.
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I have never met a person who didn't know what a Jew was...either a "genetic" Jew from the line of Abraham, nor a spiritual Jew (one whose heart has been circumcised by the Spirit).

For arguments sake, what do you think a Jew is?

..
 
So...when Scripture says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air," (I Thess. 4:17)...you think that we will just magically appear in the air to meet Him? You are either messing with me, or you have a problem with how you understand Scripture. If you are standing on your front lawn when the rapture hits, where we are told that we will be translated from physical to glorified spiritual bodies, and then "meet the Lord in the air," do you really think you will just vanish from the physical eyes who may be watching you at that moment (the neighbor who might be talking with you) and the re-appear standing on a cloud before Jesus?

No, the direct implication here is that after translation, we will fly through the air to meet Him, in the same manner in which He went up in Acts 1:9, so shall we. It is indirectly implied in the text. It isn't always about what Scripture says, it is also what it implies and insinuates, which can be corroborated with other passages of Scripture.
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Believers don’t do the hackneyed “go to heaven” thing; rather, Christ sets up his kingdom here, with us. We, being "caught up" with others, meet the Lord in the air and then return back to earth with him.

For example, if your friends fly in from another country to visit you, you might travel to your local airport to meet them when their plane lands and then escort them back to your place. If they’re VIP friends, you might have a delegation meet them at your country's main airport, and then escort them back to your place. In either case, you don’t go to your airport, meet your friends, get on your friend’s plane, and then travel back with your friends to their place of origin!

So, do we have a scriptural witness to this scenario? Yes.

...we came the next day to Puteoli: Where we found brethren, and were desired to tarry with them seven days: and so we went toward Rome. And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage. And when we came to Rome... -- Acts 28:13-16

The brothers in Rome got word of their impending visitors, and so went out to meet them at Appii forum, and then escorted them back to Rome.

meet = same word in both Acts 28 and 1 Thes. 4.

Here are all four usages of the word meet:

Mat. 25:1 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat. 25:6 - And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Acts 28:15 - And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All four are consistent with “meet and greet and return to base.“
 
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