Why does God send people to hell?

[Rhema]

Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Biased translations will always lead to eternal false doctrines.

Matt 25:46 και (AND) απελευσονται (GO AWAY AND ARRIVE) ουτοι (THESE) εις (INTO) κολασιν (G2851) αιωνιον (PERMANENT) οι (THE) δε (BUT) δικαιοι (RIGHTEOUS) εις (INTO) ζωην (LIFE) αιωνιον (PERMANENT).

Link to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for G2851

A. checking the growth of trees, esp. almond-trees,​

You read punishment, but the Greek says "cut off." The one into LIFE, the other into it's opposite.

Rhema

(There is a reason why Revelation was rejected until 367AD.)

 

[B-A-C]

There's also a reason Liddell Scott is rejected.

κόλασις
kolasis
kol'-as-is
From G2849; penal infliction: - punishment, torment.
Total KJV occurrences: 2


Mat 25:46
και
G2532
CONJ
καί
and
απελευσονται
G565
V-FDI-3P
ἀπέρχομαι
to go off
ουτοι
G3778
D-NPM
οὗτος
the he
εις
G1519
PREP
εἰς
to
κολασιν
G2851
N-ASF
κόλασις
penal infliction
αιωνιον
G166
A-ASF
αἰώνιος
perpetual
οι
G3588
T-NPM
ὁ
the
δε
G1161
CONJ
δέ
but
δικαιοι
G1342
A-NPM
δίκαιος
equitable
εις
G1519
PREP
εἰς
to

ζωην
G2222
N-ASF
ζωή
life
αιωνιον
G166
A-ASF
αἰώνιος
perpetual

 

[Peter1]

He does not send people to hell I know who does I see the ugliness in the post anything even the tiniest ugliness draws me cannot ever fool me you know what I will do when I see it.

 

[Rhema]

There's also a reason Liddell Scott is rejected.

Rejected by whom? The Sesame Street Seminary? Other than your unfounded opinion blurted out here, have you just one scholar that would repudiate this work?

So your feelings are hurt. Dear me. Am I to be put off because you had a knee jerk reaction and decided to hurl the word "rejected" back in my face? I don't think so, dear one.

Nor am I intimidated one bit by your laundry list of "Strong's" nonsense. James Strong created a concordance, not a Lexicon, and none of his dictionary entries are his own:

In the 1890 version, Strong added a "Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary" and a "Greek Dictionary of the New Testament" to his concordance. In the preface to both dictionaries, Strong explains that these are "brief and simple" dictionaries, not meant to replace reference to "a more copious and elaborate Lexicon." He mentions Gesenius and Fürst (both Hebrew) as examples of the lexicons that Strong's is drawn from. His dictionaries were meant to give students a quick and simple way to look up words and have a general idea of their meaning.​

He does not say where he's drawn his simplistic Greek definitions from, and surely you know that everything AFTER the dash is NOT part of the dictionary, but rather the words found in the KJV.

The exhaustive concordance of the Bible: showing every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order; together with A comparative concordance of the authorized and revised ve

1

archive.org

But having condemned the work of Liddell and Scott, I now offer you the opportunity to do so with the Bible.

The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.​

- Psalms 34:16 KJV

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.​

- Psalms 37:9 KJV

For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.​

- Psalms 37:22 KJV

For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.​

- Psalms 37:28 KJV

But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.​

- Psalms 37:38 KJV

All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; but the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.​

- Psalms 75:10 KJV

I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.​

- Psalms 101:8 KJV

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.​

- Romans 11:21-22 KJV

I am surprised with all your study that you haven't quite grasped the fundamental concept of being cut off.

Rhema

 

[Garee]

Biased translations will always lead to eternal false doctrines.

Matt 25:46 και (AND) απελευσονται (GO AWAY AND ARRIVE) ουτοι (THESE) εις (INTO) κολασιν (G2851) αιωνιον (PERMANENT) οι (THE) δε (BUT) δικαιοι (RIGHTEOUS) εις (INTO) ζωην (LIFE) αιωνιον (PERMANENT).

Link to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for G2851

A. checking the growth of trees, esp. almond-trees,​

You read punishment, but the Greek says "cut off." The one into LIFE, the other into it's opposite.

Rhema

(There is a reason why Revelation was rejected until 367AD.)

Rejected by who in 367 AD? Those who wanted to make the warning not to add or subtract from the perfect without effect??

Biased like your private interpretation. Everyone has an opinion called a heresy as to what they think sola scriptura teaches. In that way we can obey the loving commandment to study to show one's approval of God rightly dividing the parables

He warns of those who say we do need dying mankind to teach us called antichrists another teaching authority other than sola scriptura

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God (Not gods called patron saints a legion) of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[B-A-C]

Rejected by whom? The Sesame Street Seminary?

The American Baptists.
The Southern Baptists.
The Assemblies of God.
Dallas Theological Seminary.
The Moody Institute.

.. possibly a few more. Of course they accept the book of Revelation well.
The Baptists, the Pentecostals, the Catholics, the Luthernams, the Methodists, The Anglicans and Episcopalians all accept it.

So your feelings are hurt.

A false assumption.

Nor am I intimidated one bit by your laundry list

Great! that was never my intention.

 

[complete]

Rev 2:11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

You don't cease to exist here.

Rev 14:9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Rev 20:8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Hello @B-A-C.

The punishment is eternal,simply because there is no prospect of a reversal of the sentence passed. It is death that is final and irrevocable, with no resurrection hope.

Death being the absence of life. Not eternal 'conscious' punishment .

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[B-A-C]

Death being the absence of life. Not eternal 'conscious' punishment .

A false teaching. Directly in conflict with all the scriptures in my previous post.

 

[complete]

A false teaching. Directly in conflict with all the scriptures in my previous post.

Hello @B-A-C,

That is a charge that I will leave with the Lord.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

A false teaching. Directly in conflict with all the scriptures in my previous post.

I would offer a false teaching would be those who think they will be reincarnated and judged a second time (double jeopardy) By what they call the white throne Judgment seat.

The appointment to die once is being worked out in these bodies of death deader than a door nail

Death the letter as it is written (thou shall not)

Hell, a living suffering we experience in these earthen powerless bodies

A living sacrifice suffered the pang of hell by his wounds or bruise we are healed .

Revelation 20:14 And death and (suffering) hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The second death the death of death the letter of the law. Death not subject to the new heavens and earth .the letter death will not be remebered or ever come to mind forever and ever

 

[Rhema]

The American Baptists.
The Southern Baptists.
The Assemblies of God.
Dallas Theological Seminary.
The Moody Institute.

PROOF.

I see you could not provide it.

 

[KingJ]

Hello again, @KingJ,

In answer to your questions.

1) We do have free will.
2) 'Accept me or die', is not the option we are presented with.

It is made clear in Romans chapter two that the judgment of God will be carried out justly and righteously, by the One Who can do so, for He knows the thoughts and intents of men's hearts. There will be many who will enter into life whom mankind will have dismissed on the grounds of the limitation of their own understanding: Whom God, who knows the heart, will receive. For He is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and swift to bless.
No one will be denied life, without a judgement which is undertaken with the utmost thoroughness, by Him who sees all and knows all: and those who have never heard the gospel, will be judged by Him Who knows how they would have responded had they done so.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I appreciate that you want to correctly present God as just and righteous with your belief. But you are not dealing directly with the points made.

You say you agree that we have free will but then state that God is all knowing. Knowing all our thoughts. If God knows all our thoughts and is the Creator of all, he then created many for hell and that is most certainly not true free will. That would make God evil. Free will has to 100% true free will. Not an appearance or the 'best case possible'.

You also don't deal with the statement in 2. ''Accept me or die''. If you believe in annihilationism, this equates to ''marry me or be burnt at the stake''. Now, sure, with mortal sinners, it seems God will remain good and just if in fact certain death were the consequence of rejecting Jesus / not repenting of your sins. But, not all sinners are mortal sinners. Making your belief incriminate God as unjust.

Your belief thus portrays God as evil and unjust.

 

[KingJ]

Kind of a cynical view of Christianity, it makes me want to ask why did you choose Jesus?
But I think people still have free will, indeed, I believe the majority of people when faced with that question will choose death.
That is their choice. It may not be a good one, but it's what they chose.

But let's flip this around, instead... of you have to accept me or die.
I think most Christians would say, Here's a life preserver. You don't have to drown if you don't want to. Here is a way out.

Matt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

This seems to say, most people will choose death.

Even people who have heard of Jesus/God will reject Him.

Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

But there is no other way.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

John 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

We agree on one point and disagree on another.

We both agree that death is not annihilationism. It is separation from God. Accepting darkness. As John 3:19 explains - John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

The post of mine that you quoted is to Complete, who believes in annihilationism. Not 'death = darkness''.

Now where we disagree is on what happens to these sinners that rejected the light. You believe God burns all in fire for eternity, even the venial sinners. I believe God punishes all justly (we would approve), exactly in accordance with their sin Rom 2:6 and that hell is both a home and place of punishment. There is no person on this planet that would send a petty thief to an hour of suffering in fire, let alone an eternity.

As such, where an annihilationist is guilty of portraying God as evil and unjust, you are only guilty of the latter.

 

[KingJ]

Biased translations will always lead to eternal false doctrines.

Matt 25:46 και (AND) απελευσονται (GO AWAY AND ARRIVE) ουτοι (THESE) εις (INTO) κολασιν (G2851) αιωνιον (PERMANENT) οι (THE) δε (BUT) δικαιοι (RIGHTEOUS) εις (INTO) ζωην (LIFE) αιωνιον (PERMANENT).

Link to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for G2851

A. checking the growth of trees, esp. almond-trees,​

You read punishment, but the Greek says "cut off." The one into LIFE, the other into it's opposite.

Rhema

(There is a reason why Revelation was rejected until 367AD.)

How many times will you do this dance here? You have been debunked multiple times.

 

[Garee]

We agree on one point and disagree on another.

We both agree that death is not annihilationism. It is separation from God. Accepting darkness. As John 3:19 explains - John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

The post of mine that you quoted is to Complete, who believes in annihilationism. Not 'death = darkness''.

Now where we disagree is on what happens to these sinners that rejected the light. You believe God burns all in fire for eternity, even the venial sinners. I believe God punishes all justly (we would approve), exactly in accordance with their sin Rom 2:6 and that hell is both a home and place of punishment. There is no person on this planet that would send a petty thief to an hour of suffering in fire, let alone an eternity.

As such, where an annihilationist is guilty of portraying God as evil and unjust, you are only guilty of the latter.

Venial sinners?

God is a God of mercy mixed with grace not vengeance.

The letter of the law as it is written. Thou shall not, or you are dead . . .annihilation.

The letter of the law death that caused dying human suffering called hell.

Yoked with Christ our daily bread strengthened by it our burden can be lighter

The death of death and its suffering hell

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Free will the power of our daily bread. The spiritual unseen food the disciple knew not of Hidden Mana it worked to both understand the will of the Holy Father and empower Jesus the Son of man to do it to the good powerful pleasure of the invisible Father.

John 4:33-35;Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?;Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

No work. . . no food.

Same kind of hidden manna spoken of in Philippian 2:13.

Philippian 2:13;For it is God which worketh in you both (the key) to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The better thing that accompanies salvation. The eternal promise Christ will not forget the good works we can perform according to his unseen Holy faithful power

Hebrew 9:10;But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[complete]

I appreciate that you want to correctly present God as just and righteous with your belief. But you are not dealing directly with the points made.

You say you agree that we have free will but then state that God is all knowing. Knowing all our thoughts. If God knows all our thoughts and is the Creator of all, he then created many for hell and that is most certainly not true free will. That would make God evil. Free will has to 100% true free will. Not an appearance or the 'best case possible'.

You also don't deal with the statement in 2. ''Accept me or die''. If you believe in annihilationism, this equates to ''marry me or be burnt at the stake''. Now, sure, with mortal sinners, it seems God will remain good and just if in fact certain death were the consequence of rejecting Jesus / not repenting of your sins. But, not all sinners are mortal sinners. Making your belief incriminate God as unjust.

Your belief thus portrays God as evil and unjust.

1. How can a Creator of all be 'good' Psalm 136:1 and 'righteous in all His ways' Psalm 145:17 if He does not give us true free will or,
2. How the term ''accept me or die'' is evidence of true free will.

(Ref:- entries #451 & #452)

'For the word of God is quick, and powerful,
and sharper than any two-edged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
and of the joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight:
but all things are naked and opened
unto the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do.'
(Heb 4:12-13)

Hello @KingJ,

* You say that I have not addressed the issues you raised (quoted above), but I believe I have, for I have said that I believe that God has given us free will: and the terms you use, 'accept me or die' are your own, and not a true reflection of Biblical truth. God askes that we believe what He has said concerning His Son the Lord Jesus Christ and come to Him for salvation on the basis of the all-sufficient sacrifice He accomplished on the cross, and through His resurrection out from among the dead, in order that we may have our sins forgiven and receive the promise of life (resurrection life) through Him.

* As you see from the verses quoted (above), God does know the thoughts and intents of the believer's heart. I say, believer's heart, for this epistle is written to believing Hebrews, and it is the word of God which is the means by which the the Holy Spirit discerns,' the thoughts and intents of the heart,'

* I do not agree with your conclusions regarding my entry

* The texts that I referenced in repy#451 are:- Psa. 6:5; 30:9; 31:17; 88:10-12; 115:17; 146:3-4.,Eccl. 9:5-6,10; & Isa. 38:17-19. These deal with the state of the dead. who are the occupants of Hell, or the grave or the place of the dead: and show both the state of the dead, and the nature of Hell or the grave, :-.

'Return, O LORD, deliver my soul:
oh save me for Thy mercies' sake.
For in death there is no remembrance of Thee:
in the grave who shall give Thee thanks?
(Psa 6:4-5)

'I cried to Thee, O LORD;
and unto the LORD I made supplication.
What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit?
Shall the dust praise Thee?
shall it declare Thy truth?
(Psa 30:8-9)

'Let me not be ashamed, O LORD;
for I have called upon Thee:
let the wicked be ashamed,
and let them be silent in the grave.
(Psa 31:17)

'Wilt Thou shew wonders to the dead?
shall the dead arise and praise Thee? Selah.
Shall Thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave?
or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Shall Thy wonders be known in the dark?
and Thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
(Psa 88:10-12)

'The dead praise not the LORD,
neither any that go down into silence.'
(Psa 115:17)

'Put not your trust in princes,
nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;
in that very day his thoughts perish.'
(Psa 146:3-4)

'For the living know that they shall die:
but the dead know not any thing,
neither have they any more a reward;
for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever
in any thing that is done under the sun.'
(Ecc 9:5-6)

'O Lord, by these things men live,
and in all these things is the life of my spirit:
so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live.
Behold, for peace I had great bitterness:
but Thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption:
for Thou hast cast all my sins behind Thy back.
For the grave cannot praise Thee,
death can not celebrate Thee:
they that go down into the pit cannot hope for Thy truth.'
The living, the living, he shall praise Thee, as I do this day:
the father to the children shall make known Thy truth.'
(Isa 38:16-19)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rhema]

How many times will you do this dance here? You have been debunked multiple times.

In your dreams. No one, especially you, has ever posted anything of substance that would show that any translation I've ever provided on this forum was wrong. And were they to do so, I would gladly accept any correction. Because I (at least) can learn.

You say you agree that we have free will but then state that God is all knowing. Knowing all our thoughts. If God knows all our thoughts and is the Creator of all, he then created many for hell and that is most certainly not true free will.

Even this argument above has so many logical errors in it.... well... one would think even you would understand that Knowledge is not Causation.

Creator of all THINGS, does not mean creator of all thoughts. (Else he did a pretty bad job with some people.)

Rhema

 

[KingJ]

Hello @KingJ,

* You say that I have not addressed the issues you raised (quoted above), but I believe I have, for I have said that I believe that God has given us free will:

You cannot just say it. Free will needs to be proven.

and the terms you use, 'accept me or die' are your own,

No, it is your belief. You believe and teach that if someone does not accept Jesus as Lord they will literally die.

I really hope and pray you grasp how you will not reach anyone on this planet with a message like that.

I want you to think of a court that is passing judgment on a petty shoplifter. What person on this planet would agree with burning the shoplifter at a stake? Annihilationism comes completely and utterly unstuck when it comes to the punishment matching the crime.

Paul rebukes Christians in 1 Cor 6:1-9 who cannot judge matters better than the unsaved. Now we teach as fact that God fails harder than the unsaved because we have cherry picked some scriptures that suggest it. See where I am going. The foundation of your belief is grossly illogical.

* As you see from the verses quoted (above), God does know the thoughts and intents of the believer's heart. I say, believer's heart, for this epistle is written to believing Hebrews, and it is the word of God which is the means by which the the Holy Spirit discerns,' the thoughts and intents of the heart,'

We actually going a little off topic here.

Yes, God knows the thoughts of a believer, even in advance. By accepting Jesus we completely give our lives to Him. But, in order for true free will to exist, He cannot know in advance all the decisions and thoughts of the unbelievers. There is no way for true free will to exist if God does not limit His omniscience.

Now, something that is part and parcel of free will is having the ability to live out your life with the consequences of your choices. If you do not have that, then you do not have free will.

Teaching that a shoplifter who refuses to stop shoplifting and accept Jesus as Lord will be mercilessly thrown into a fire and annihilated is most certainly not evidence of free will. Please try deal with this point directly and not dance around it.

 

[KingJ]

In your dreams. No one, especially you, has ever posted anything of substance that would show that any translation I've ever provided on this forum was wrong. And were they to do so, I would gladly accept any correction. Because I (at least) can learn.

Dude, your memory fails you. If you hold to a belief of no eternal damnation than you have to also hold to a belief of no eternal salvation. Imagine that. Nice chat.

Creator of all THINGS, does not mean creator of all thoughts. (Else he did a pretty bad job with some people.)

LMAO. You just stated that He is the Creator of all ......except for thoughts.

He either is the Creator of all or He isn't. If He is, which scripture is crystal clear He is, then the only way to achieve free will is for Him to limit His omniscience. He does this with His omnipotence, by allowing evil, something He utterly hates, to take place.

 

[KingJ]

Venial sinners?

God is a God of mercy mixed with grace not vengeance.

Agreed.

The letter of the law as it is written. Thou shall not, or you are dead . . .annihilation.

The letter of the law death that caused dying human suffering called hell.

Yoked with Christ our daily bread strengthened by it our burden can be lighter

The death of death and its suffering hell

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Free will the power of our daily bread. The spiritual unseen food the disciple knew not of Hidden Mana it worked to both understand the will of the Holy Father and empower Jesus the Son of man to do it to the good powerful pleasure of the invisible Father.

John 4:33-35;Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?;Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

No work. . . no food.

Same kind of hidden manna spoken of in Philippian 2:13.

Philippian 2:13;For it is God which worketh in you both (the key) to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The better thing that accompanies salvation. The eternal promise Christ will not forget the good works we can perform according to his unseen Holy faithful power

Hebrew 9:10;But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Would you mind just better clarifying your position. Not sure what you are trying to say.

Sometimes in our mind the points we type are clear. But to properly communicate that to another is not always easy .