End of Times

[Christ4Ever]

Many thanks for that Brother Nick, it took a few reads to understand fully and as i usually do, i thought about and reflected on what i'd read and how that applied to my view of Christs teachings. The verse that kept coming to mind was when Christ said " No man can serve 2 masters, You cant serve God and Mammon", i believe this is what Mike Johnson is trying to do, for you cant be anymore immersed in the culture of Mammon than being involved in Politics, and the higher you climb the Political ladder the more immersed you become. Politics is all about Money, power and influence, of obtaining sufficient Money, power and influence to fulfill your objectives, and there is little more corrupting to the human Soul than the combination of the unholy Trinity of Money, Influence and Power. There might be some that set out in Politics with the best of intentions, but soon realise that to achieve anything you have to compromise on your beliefs, you have to play the game, to become a part of the Evil and Corrupt system youre hoping to change and before you know it its moulded you into the very thing you set out to change. This is the insidious way Evil works, with promises that " If only i had the power i'd change things for the better", but in the end, the system changes you but in a way that you can still fool yourself youre doing it for good, but when has good ever come from Evil?.

Dear Brother,
What you do is default to what Christ has written, without realizing as scripture says that all things were created by, and for Him. So, that the very institutions put in place by God, Church & Government you war against in the narrowness of your vision. There is no compromise on my part, but rather a greater understanding of His workings then what you have allowed yourself to believe exists.

In truth you are very much like the legalist that Jesus was against, because all they understood were the Commandments, while perverting the very things you now believe you support were only spoken of by Jesus, by using the institutions He as God had put in place! So, you have a truth for your actions, but only partially, because what you don't understand or maybe don't want to consider, is that He did not come to tear down the church, or governments, but to build it up in such a fashion that it would fulfill its true purpose for being created in the first place.

Sadly, you malign a brother (Mike Johnson) in Christ, because he is doing what you see as compromising, which is working within that which God has created to ensure that Godly, men/women, are in the positions that when existing laws go contrary to what God has wanted to be done, can be changed and not destroy the entirety of the system, which whether you know or not is exactly what you are doing now. Doing so, without even acknowledging the purpose for which they were put there in the first place by God. That is the part you see as conflicting, and so won't accept them as having a Godly purpose, no matter how one shows you according to God's word that it is so.

Only you can look in the mirror, see, and then ask God why this is so. I can't be like one of Job's friends and tell you that you are at fault, and the reason for it, except for you to consider the entirety of the word of God, and to understand it with greater wisdom, that God can provide you.

You believe that all that counts or that God created was the individual, and not the other items, as has been shown to you in the writing of Brother Johnson, which is the Church, and Government as well. Being unable to see and believe them as being an order by which God meant humanity to be led, you will ignore scripture that points you to a greater understanding to follow and the prophets that were given the words to write that we might know. (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21)

It is easy to twist what does not go along with ones (not just you) theological bend, and what you in your previous post stated in not seeing communism, socialism etc., but only the individual. While they do exist, whether you believe in them or not, or see them or not. The devil doesn't need you to believe in him or his works against God's. In fact he'd rather that you not. It makes deception all the easier for him.

So, now you can believe that the individual is all there is, as much as you want to, but God did not mean for it to be so, and why the Church and Government were given to man. They were meant to work hand in hand, with each having a responsibility accorded to it. Like a three-legged stool, take one leg away and it won't stand. They are meant to work each in unison, balanced each with the other, and when done properly will allow God's will to be done. Just like the Trinity Brother Steve.

However, like a quote I've used before from John Adams, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." you can see the 3 being spoken of by him in the individual (people), church (religious), and government, and the need of them working together or it won't not work.

As to your last question in the above of "when has good come from evil". You should know the answer to this Brother Steve! When God wills it! You have to go no further than Joseph in the OT! We are limited in how much we can see, which is not a limitation that God has brother. I have a t-shirt that I like to wear that says, "God Wins" "I've read the last chapter". Trust Him, instead of trying to do it all yourself, you'll be better off.

Which leads me to now ask you. What are going to put in place of what so far is not working, either here in the US, or anywhere else in the world and how would you implement it? If you don't have an answer, then your answer really is "Chaos", and all that entails, which of course is not better than what we have now.

For example, as Leader of the house and a Republican Mike Johnson has supported President Trumps actions in cutting Overseas Aid which will cost millions of Lives, the cutting of Domestic Aid programmes to the poorest, the rollback of Environmental protections, the supplying of weapons to Israel as it conducted its genocidal war in Gaza, the massive increase in US military spending and the implementation of a brutal anti immigration and deportation policy. How can these actions be reconciled with his professed Christian Faith, not to mention the latest depiction of the Obamas as Apes in one of Trumps social media posts, It seems to me that Mike Johnson, like nearly all Politicians to a lesser or greater extent sell their souls and worship at the Alter of Money and Power, or in some cases a Political ideology based on Division and hatred. and as Christ said, "For what does it profit a man , to gain the whole world but in doing so lose his soul".

So, you are perfect, and know of a perfect government to have in its place?
Do, you deny the fraud that was going on at the same time that was not going to those it was supposed to help?
So, your suggestion was that they do nothing?
To fix the leak you sometimes have to cut off the entirety of the water, before finding the holes, before you turn the water back on.
That is what was done. No other way was working, because nobody else was even giving it any due attention to fixing.
So, argue the process all you want, but without an alternative, this will have to do.
The real issue is that the corrupt politicians benefiting from this are the same ones blocking efforts to fix the system, loudly complaining about those hurt by the funding cuts. Oh, and you're siding with them!!! Yikes!

Actually, did you see the entirety of the video that was actually a mistake by an underling that was not cut out of another post? You would probably approve of it, since it depicted not just the Obamas as apes, but all politicians as animals!!! It was rather well done! I actually saw most of it through a post done by a black individual, who had no problem with it, and was laughing. Mostly, by how triggered the left was by it!!!

Well, brother, when you reach perfection that goes along with the word of God, you let me know. Because you're a sinner like the rest of us, and you still sin! So, don't be throwing stones at others for their deficiencies, when you have them as well. For you don't know how much any of these you are denigrating are trying to get themselves better as well! Mirror time: For the same judgment....need I say more?

I'll try to work through the post as best i can and it'll probably take me a few days, but i thought i'd best set down my initial thoughts, so here goes.......

No problem. As it rolls in, I'll try to address your observations.

This i think is the crux of my opposition, for i see myself as a Christian, not a Christian with different aspects to their lives, but one life and one faith, as such i try to apply my Christian beliefs to ALL situations, be they political, social, Economic or Moral, there is no distinction for myself between the actions of people, institutions, groups or the Government itself, i apply my Christian beliefs to all equally , when i look at an immigration policy i apply the same principles of loving my Neighbour and treating others as i'd want to be treated as i would to any personal interaction, there is no distinction.

There’s the problem. God put these in place, and while their complexity can be hard to grasp at times, it’s not right to fall back on “I’m a Christian” as a reason not to understand, because that’s the wrong approach to gaining understanding.

Oh, you may not see the distinctions, but clearly God did, and He saw the need for them, because He instituted them. You can argue with God about them, but I dare say, you won't win. Now, you speak of equality as if its a possibility! Hate to burst your bubble, but it doesn't exist, and even in heaven it doesn't. What you are really believing in is equal outcome for all. Sorry brother its not going to happen. Thing about the gifts that will be given out one day for one's work. (1 Cor 3:8, 12-15; 2 Cor 5:10) You sound more like a proponent of DEI! Sorry, it doesn't work in Heaven, it sure won't work here on earth.

I agree that we are all responsible for our actions, what we do and dont do, but that is not just an individual responsibility, we are also called on to pursue Justice and practice Compassion and humility, we are ALL our Brother/Sisters keeper and what befalls our neighbour is our concern wherever they may be....... and what if the Civil Government is Evil and pursues unjust and oppressive laws, like all do to a lesser or greater extent, are we not called on to follow a higher morality, of being first and foremost true to our faith and the teachings of our Lord and Saviour?.

Need I quote John Adams again? lol
Again, what system are you going to set up in place of what God has, that will work?
Yes, it is humanities fault that they have been unable to follow righteously what God has put in place. After all until they come to Jesus, it won't happen or be run, perfectly. We keep trying, but we don't burn it down, which is what you're talking about, because there is no other solution but to destroy what God has placed for us to use, because you won't work within the system to fix it. Which is the only way it can work. Little by little.

But if we believe in the teachings of Christ then as his followers we must apply his words to ALL situations, this is the danger when we become absorbed in the workings of Mammon, of the Evil system that we all have to live in, when we take it to our heart the contradictions between our faith and the workings of the world become so great that we have to compromise, to find reasons, and in doing so we become as those that" Profess Christ with their lips, but whose Heart is far from him".

Exactly! Who's the one who doesn't want to work within the system that God has established, but instead is trying to bring it down?
I know you'd like it to be in your lifetime, but it's not going to happen. You might see the fall of the USA, in your lifetime, but if you think that will make it better. Nope, it will not. When that happens, the pain, suffering, death will increase, worldwide, and so will persecution, and nothing will have changed for the better. Brother read the Book of Revelation. Only the return of Jesus, will illicit the necessary change, because only He has the authority & power to make it happen in a worldwide scale, but before then it will be horrendous to contemplate how much worse the world will be, not might be, but will be.

See how Christs words and the spirit of his words have been corrupted to suit a political ideology , so the civil government, and those Christians working within the Civil Government, can ignore the basic tenets of Christianity because its politically expedient to do so, does this give them the right to implement any Law, no matter how harsh, would you have betrayed Anne Frank to the "authorities" because that was the Law, and "every person is subject to the governing authorities"? I'll finish the rest on Thursday hopefully, but i have to say IMO this is a gross betrayal of our faith and Christs teachings, but this is what happens when you try to serve 2 masters, you end up serving the one and ignoring the other, and this sadly is what i think Speaker Johnson is doing.

Not at all! What you don't want to realize is that "THE PEOPLE" make up the Government, at least here in the USA, and if the pool from which they are chosen, are only unbelievers, guess what you have? A Government run by unbelievers! Instead of Godly, men & women! He as a Christian that works in the political system knows this, and is why I believe, the focus must be on Evangelism, Discipleship, and the growing of the Body of Christ first before trying to change a system that you can't change from the outside!!! Supporting those on the inside in prayer most especially!

You like to mention Anne Frank. Did you ever think, what if there had been a million Anne Frank's instead of just one, what would have happened??? Well, guess what? Nothing would have changed! She was not a believer in Jesus Christ. You think there will be change outside of Jesus? No, change will only happen through Christ Jesus! You want change, well, you're going about it the wrong way! Bring them the Word of God that through the Holy Spirit and you will have the change; a change that will cover the entirety of the world!

You think Brother Johnson is serving 2 masters? So, the Government is not established by God, but by the devil? Is that what you believe???
You really need to pray about this a bit more brother, and seek discernment and greater wisdom, which our God will provide you. I pray for it as well.

I look forward to more of what you have to say on Brother Johnson's writing. Though, disregarding the institutions that God has established is not something I would want to hear about, because that is what it appears is what you are saying must be done. Which you should be able to acknowledge is against the word of God. Bring all three together, like the legs of a stool, and you’ll get it. Ignore even one, and you risk a nasty surprise when it’s time to sit down.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rad]

BORDERS ARE BIBLICAL Many on the Left today, and even some at the highest levels of our government, consider themselves “globalists” who envision a utopian world order where there are no borders between countries at all. Their fantasy will simply never be realized, and their basic premise (that man is inherently good and perfectible on his own) is the opposite of the Biblical truth that man is fallen and in need of redemption that is available only through salvation in Jesus Christ.

I have never, well not for a very long time anyway, thought that there can ever be a "Utopian World", whether with borders or without. My view is that we are ALL wretched sinners in need of Gods Grace and Forgiveness. Men can never redeem this fallen world because we are the problem, not the solution, it will only be when God brings an end to this whole sorry mess we've created that Utopia, Heaven will be created.

The Bible speaks favorably and consistently about distinct nations of people (see, e.g., Gen. 18:18, Num. 32:17, Psalm 67:2, Matt. 28:19, Rev. 5:9, 7:9, NIV), and about borders and walls that are built to guard and secure people, property, and jurisdictions (see, e.g., Deut. 19:14, 27:17, 32:8, Acts 17:26, NIV). When Nehemiah heroically led the Jewish remnant to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem after their enemies had destroyed those walls, he was doing the noble work of God (Neh. 1-6, NIV)

But Christs commandment to "Love your Neighbour as yourself" and to "treat others as you'd want to be treated" broke down those barriers that separate us, if we see Christ in the hungry, the outcast, the stranger, then it is all of those we are called to show Love and compassion to, we cannot turn away the Christ we see in the stranger because hes "illegal" and then claim to love him.

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Maintaining a secure border is not an offensive measure, but a wise, defensive one to prevent chaos and safeguard innocent life. As Rev. Franklin Graham once summarized, “Why do you lock your doors at night? Not because you hate the people on the outside, but because you love the people on the inside so much.”

The mass migration into the US is in the main a symptom of just what an evil and unjust world we've created. People are fleeing, poverty, violence and hardship and seeking a better life, many risk their own lives in trying to get from poor countries to rich ones, yet we would deny them that chance, how is this "Loving your neighbour as yourself?, " or is that how we'd like to be treated if we were in their situation?.

THE CURRENT CATASTROPHE Right now, because of 64 deliberate policy choices and executive orders of the Biden Administration, America is facing an unprecedented humanitarian and national security catastrophe at our open southern border. More than 10 million illegal aliens from around the world have entered the U.S. since Joe Biden became President, the majority of whom are single, military-aged men. Among them are countless violent criminals and more than 300 suspects on the terrorist watchlist.

Cartels are making billions trafficking young women and unaccompanied minors, and many are suffering unspeakable abuses along the way. The Fentanyl that China and the cartels have pushed into the U.S. has become the leading cause of death for Americans aged 18-45. As the peril increases and communities across our country become more and more overwhelmed with the crushing financial burdens of managing the influx of illegals, American citizens (and even a few Democratic governors and mayors) are finally demanding a return to sanity.

America has always been a haven for people legitimately seeking asylum from danger in their home country, but we must insist they pursue a course of legal immigration and not simply ignore our laws. Of course, the President of the United States must be the first to uphold our laws. Every citizen should insist that President Biden immediately use the eight broad statutory authorities he has right now to secure our borders and stop incentivizing illegal immigration. Among his most important executive authorities is 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), which empowers a President to “suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate” if he “finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.”

Until we tackle the root causes of this mass migration, Poverty, wars, climate change and the abhorrent gap between rich and poor countries, this Exodus will continue, what we must decide as Christians is what should our response be to those escaping these often horrific situations, i would like to see a massive expansion in overseas aid, an end of Arms exports and arms production, a global response to climate change and funding from rich countries that have caused the problem to enable poor countries to adapt and respond to changing climatic events that are so devastating, and the building of lives and infrastructure in poor countries so their citizens feel they dont have the need to migrate elsewhere. Until then i will continue to try to "Love my neighbour as myself", whether they be legal or illegal, for isnt this what Christ demands of his followers?.

AN AUTHENTIC CHRISTIAN RESPONSE Due in large part to our Judeo-Christian foundations and the deep religious heritage we enjoy in this country, America is the most benevolent nation in the world—by far. However, we cannot maintain that strength and generosity if we surrender our own safety and sovereignty. Preserving law and order and securing our borders should not be partisan issues, but matters of common sense. These are certainly responsibilities fully authorized by the Bible—and expected of us by God. Any time liberals attempt to bolster their “open borders” agenda by citing Scripture out of context, they should be kindly corrected with the facts (2 Tim. 2:24-25).

The US Aid budget recently passed by Congress was i believe $50, less than 0.2% of GDP, a 16% cut on the previous year i find that hard to describe as "Benevolent", according to Agencies it could lead to 14 million deaths over the coming years and will undoubtedly push tens of millions more into abject poverty. Does this seem to you a situation Christ would approve of?. And i dont just single out the US, in the UK the Aid Budget has been cut by £3 billion from 0.5% of GDP to 0.3% of GDP, this again could lead to millions of extra deaths and millions more having to endure extreme poverty and suffering. And in both cases, the Uk and the US , Arms spending has been increased with the US Budget now set at $1 Trillion. Is this a Christian response to over 800 million people living in abject poverty and thousands of children dying every day from Malnutrition and easily preventable disease and illness?........ how do you think Christ views our "Benevolence"? ,

Christians are called to love unconditionally, serve selflessly, and defend the defenseless. We are also called to stand for, and work to ensure, just government. Justice and mercy are not mutually exclusive pursuits. To the contrary, God specifically requires His people to practice both (Micah 6:8). Despite the unfounded claims of the Left, supporting a strong national border is a very Christian thing to do. The Bible tells us so.

How is building a strong national Border, keeping those that are in need for whatever reason out of the country, a way of showing "unconditional Love", for it seems to me exactly the opposite, For a policy of exclusion is being practised, of differentiating between people dependent on their status, either legal or illegal, or in some cases the country they come from.

In my view this is what happens when you try to merge Christianity with the Nation State, for the 2 are incompatible, Christianity is all about Love, of God and your fellow man, the Nation State is all about self interest and the maintenance and extension of wealth and power, and you cannot serve both God and Mammon however hard you try.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

End

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother Steve, @Rad
Are you done commenting on the post that contained the comments from Brother Johnson #112?
Please let me know with a simple yes or no by replying to this post. That way, I can respond to the points you made about it, as well as address what you missed from his writing.

Your Servant in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Bill]

No i dont believe that anyone can call themselves a Christian and own slaves, you cannot love your neighbour as yourself and treat others as you'd want to be treated and then own another human being, created in Gods likeness, as you would own a piece of property, depriving them of their God given rights and dignity. Tbh i dont know the answer to your question, was the "Faith" that Christ described the faith to heal, or was the faith he described being the belief in Christ as the Son of God. If the latter, did the Centurion then go back to his healed slave and recognise the incompatability of owning slaves with Christs teaching and free his slave, was the seed planted by Christs healing of his servant and then fulfilled through his actions of freeing his former slave?. Theres so much i dont know, the important thing is to have the humility to accept that and listen to what others say because they may have the answer youre looking for. So what do you think?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The status that you have in the world has nothing to do with your status with God. You can be rich you can be poor, you can be an owner or you can be a Slave and still be a child of God. It isn't what you were born into, it's what you do with your heart. You make the best of the situation that you have. And giving God from your heart being the best loving your master or loving slave. From your heart.

The Centurion although an owner of a slave still cared deeply for his slave, his servant. Jesus never condemned the Centurion for owning a servant or a Slave. He never condemned anyone for that. The freedom that Jesus talked about was freedom of sin not of the flesh.

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesars, and give to God what is God's. Giving to Caesar, giving to the rulers, giving to tax collectors and everything else is giving to Caesar. But giving to God what is God's is giving from your heart. Paul talks about it, in Romans. They giving from your heart, having your heart circumcised in God, in love. He talks about the pagans how if they have their hearts circumcised in God that they are already with God even though they are understanding of who Jesus is. Because they understand who Jesus is in their hearts

 

[Rad]

Dear Brother Steve, @Rad
Are you done commenting on the post that contained the comments from Brother Johnson #112?
Please let me know with a simple yes or no by replying to this post. That way, I can respond to the points you made about it, as well as address what you missed from his writing.

Your Servant in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Yes Brother Nick i've finished commenting on the comments from Brother Johnson. My apologies for not replying sooner. I await your reply with interest.

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

 

[MedicBravo]

I'm sure most Christians in the past 100 years never thought they'd be in these times and yet things got worse.
In less than 200 years or so we went from Horse and Feet to the Moon.
Satan rules this world and you can tell.
We (Christians) are the minority b/c the fake ones don't count.

America is FULL of Leper Messiahs.

 

[Rad]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

The status that you have in the world has nothing to do with your status with God. You can be rich you can be poor, you can be an owner or you can be a Slave and still be a child of God. It isn't what you were born into, it's what you do with your heart. You make the best of the situation that you have. And giving God from your heart being the best loving your master or loving slave. From your heart.

I think our status in this world has everything to do with our status with God. Time after time Christ condemned the rich, rich in material possessions, and exalted the poor. Yes you can be a slave and be a "Child of God", in fact Christ has a special place in his heart for the slave, the poor and oppressed, but how can you be a slave owner and still call yourself a "Child of God", How can you claim to "Love your neighbour as yourself" when you own your neighbour, when their freedom and life are dependent on your wishes, how is that love?. Yes its what we do with our Hearts, and if we have Love and Compassion in our hearts, both for God and our neighbour, we'd set the slaves free, free from our ownership and free from the sins of the world.

The Centurion although an owner of a slave still cared deeply for his slave, his servant. Jesus never condemned the Centurion for owning a servant or a Slave. He never condemned anyone for that. The freedom that Jesus talked about was freedom of sin not of the flesh.

And for the slave owner to be free of the "sins of the flesh" he must surely recognise that owning another human being is incompatible with the teachings of the Saviour he professes to follow. Caring deeply for his slave is not enough, he must treat others as he'd want to be treated and i doubt that any of us, whatever we profess, would want to be owned by an Earthly Master, to have our freedom denied, to be treated as chattels and able to be sold at our masters whim.

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesars, and give to God what is God's. Giving to Caesar, giving to the rulers, giving to tax collectors and everything else is giving to Caesar. But giving to God what is God's is giving from your heart. Paul talks about it, in Romans. They giving from your heart, having your heart circumcised in God, in love. He talks about the pagans how if they have their hearts circumcised in God that they are already with God even though they are understanding of who Jesus is. Because they understand who Jesus is in their hearts

And that is the crux of the issue, for if we are indeed truly "Circumcised in God" in our hearts, then through our love for God and our fellow man we could never enslave another, we could never be rich while others live in poverty, we could never stay silent in the face of injustice and our lives would be a testament to God through our self denial and sacrifice in the name of that Love.

 

[Rad]

Both you and God should both agree that thoughts are mostly 0.005 / 10 and acting on 'murderous' thoughts for example would be a 9-10 / 10.

Hmmm, "both you and God should agree", as ive said a little humility goes a long, long way, anyway that being said, so if thoughts are 0.005/10 then why does Christ say in Matthew 5:22 " Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgement and whosever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the council and whosever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of Hell fire"?, or in Matthew 5 vs 28 " Whosoever look on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his Heart", .... thoughts and words, equivalent to the deed itself and worthy of the same punishment, ALL of our thoughts and words will be judged accordingly and some will be found as guilty as the act itself.

1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual man judges all things.

1 Cor 6:3 Don't you know that we will judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!".

Now the reason I continuously harp and harp on degrees of sin is because of these three scriptures 1 Cor 11:31, Rom 7:15 and Phil 2:12.

1 Cor 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

Phil 2:12 continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

We tick all three by getting on our knees every evening and examining all our sins committed for the day and forgiving all who sinned against us so that we may be forgiven. Examining ourselves for sin goes like this....what sin did I commit? What was the evil intent behind it? How much did I hurt someone?

But what if we dont even recognise the sins we've committed, different "branches of Christianity have different emphasis on Sin, some Christians concentrate on Homosexuality and Abortion and the promotion of the Nation State but gloss over Christs condemnation of riches, compassion for the poor and oppressed and pacifism. The problem with using a "Tick Box " approach is that youre not covering all your sins or those youve sinned against. Christ taught us to say the Lords Prayer which in saying "Forgive us our sins as we forgive others" covers all the sins we have committed, recognised or not, and we have to trust that God will enlighten us to those sins that we fail to recognise.

Thoughts are one sin we will all battle with on a daily basis. You cannot beat yourself or others up merely because of them. It is actioning thoughts that results in others being hurt.

Degrees of sin, discerning between venial and mortal, is one of the most important things we need to consider on a daily basis.

We battle with sin of ALL kinds, thoughts, words and deeds, and its not a question of "beating yourself up", although that should be a part of it, its trying to recognise out of Love how we both follow God and treat our fellow man, if we approach each situation in our lives from the perspective of the "least of these" and try to see God in those we struggle to love, then that seems to me a good indicator of the path God wants us to follow

Any person blurring the lines between venial and mortal sin is stumbling both themselves and others. This is what you are guilty of. Your posts read like this: '''I cannot judge the difference between mortal and venial, only God can''. I accuse you of intellectual dishonesty and false teaching. You can solve this dilemma you have simply by asking the person sitting near you to A. think of thrown their coffee cup at you and then B. actually throw it.

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I suspect you are a homosexual. Sexual sin is an interesting type of sin. We don't judge ourselves too harshly for it as we are able to do it without seeing anyone hurt. This is sound thinking as all sin 'is sin' because it hurts someone. In the case of sexual sin, you are hurting God and yourself. And at such a high degree that God ordained a graphic and violent death for many types of it in the OT. Homosexuality, beastiality, adultery Lev 20:10-16.

1 Cor 6:18-20 Flee sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but whoever sins sexually sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Prov 6:32 But a man who commits adultery has no sense; whoever does so destroys himself.

Eph 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Sexual sin grieves the Holy Spirit. You will not make it to heaven. On a daily basis you are pulling your middle finger to your Creator God.

 

[Rad]

Any person blurring the lines between venial and mortal sin is stumbling both themselves and others. This is what you are guilty of. Your posts read like this: '''I cannot judge the difference between mortal and venial, only God can''. I accuse you of intellectual dishonesty and false teaching. You can solve this dilemma you have simply by asking the person sitting near you to A. think of thrown their coffee cup at you and then B. actually throw it.

I can judge my own sin to a certain extent because i know the motivation behind it, i know what makes me tick, what drives me, i know nothing of others, what makes them do what they do, their background, their genetic make up, yes i can judge their actions but cant judge them, and the point you raise about the coffee cup, of course if someone threw a coffee cup at me and didnt just think of doing it i'd be a little upset,!!....... but what if the person that threw the cup was struggling with depression, or had just heard their Mum had passed away, or was in a financial mess, or had been brought up in an abusive household where violence was the answer to everything, and i was making smart Alec comments about them, what then ?, how would God judge that, you fail to see the complexities of Judging someone and just judge their actions, this is why we cannot judge anyone the way that God does, for he alone is righteous in his judgements and knows ALL the facts.

-------------------------

I suspect you are a homosexual. Sexual sin is an interesting type of sin. We don't judge ourselves too harshly for it as we are able to do it without seeing anyone hurt. This is sound thinking as all sin 'is sin' because it hurts someone. In the case of sexual sin, you are hurting God and yourself. And at such a high degree that God ordained a graphic and violent death for many types of it in the OT. Homosexuality, beastiality, adultery Lev 20:10-16.

1 Cor 6:18-20 Flee sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but whoever sins sexually sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

Prov 6:32 But a man who commits adultery has no sense; whoever does so destroys himself.

Eph 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Sexual sin grieves the Holy Spirit. You will not make it to heaven. On a daily basis you are pulling your middle finger to your Creator God.

Before i answer this question i would like to know what ive said that leads you to the conclusion that you" suspect i'm a homosexual"?, for i'd be interested to know....... and i wouldnt call sexual sin "interesting", in fact i wouldnt call any sin "interesting", my response to my sin is probably more self disgust, i find my greed, my selfishness, my envy, my hate and my Lust as an aspect of myself that i struggle with every day, it saddens me greatly that i cant be the person God wants me to be, that my earthly wants and desires threaten to choke my seed of faith, but thats who i am and will be judged accordingly by God, As to the sins of others, i would be a liar if i said i dont get angry at the actions of others, sometimes bordering on hatred, for when someone drives past me in an expensive car, or i see people living in big houses or expensive holidays advertised or people spending hundreds of pounds on themselves while hundreds of millions of men, women and children live and die in abject poverty, then my anger burns, not as bad as it used to, but its still there, and i need to recognise those very same sins within myself and acknowledge i know nothing about these people i'm angry at, i can judge their ,actions but their final judgement is Gods alone and i'm called to Love ALL my neighbours, rich, poor, black, white, legal or illegal....... and for the record, no i'm not homosexual, but what if i was, i know there are some "Christians" that seem to base their whole faith on a hatred of Gay people, not recognising that hating others is a sin in itself, or who make Homosexuality a sin above all others, for myself, i see it as a sin much like many others, hate the sin and love the sinner, but how easily we point at the sins of others and fail to recognise the sins we commit, Christ never once mentioned Homosexuality in his teachings, now you'd think that if it was something he was especially against he'd have mentioned it at least just once, but no, nothing, however what he did say repeatedly was his condemnation of the rich, his condemnation of those that fail to help those in need and his abomination of Hypocrisy, of professing his name but failing to follow his teachings, i reckon there are lessons there for us all to learn from.

 

[Rad]

Humility has its place as does contending for the truth.

What you are actually asking of me is to just leave you all alone as you drown in your sin.

I use to battle with sexual sin. I use to tell God that I like it so much and that if doing it gets me into hell, well then He made me for hell and He is evil. Who should care about serving an evil God. I would rather be a martyr for people like me.

Then God worked on me. Showed me why He hates the sin. How it is not His will for my life. He helped me to see that sin for what it is. A gross perversion that shows nothing but complete disdain for your Creator.

Humility just doesnt "have its place" but should be one of the central Tenets of our faith, " For what does the Lord require of you, but to act Justly, to Love Mercy and to walk HUMBLY with your God", in the Beatitudes Christ said "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven" and "Blessed are the Meek for they shall inherit the Earth, the meek, the poor in Spirit, the Humble will inherit both the Kingdom of God and the Earth. Of course we must seek the truth, but always recognise that the truth we seek is just our perception of the truth, the truth lies with God and we can just try our best, in a spirit of Love and Humility ,to seek it as best we can.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Yes Brother Nick i've finished commenting on the comments from Brother Johnson. My apologies for not replying sooner. I await your reply with interest.

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

Thank-you Brother Steve for your reply. I will endeavor to put forward perhaps not something that I have already addressed as it pertains to Brother Johnson's writing that I provided to you and just address what you have seen as a divergence from the words of Jesus. In so doing, before I can even address that, I must know how or I should say, what you believe to be true as it pertains to Jesus the Christ. I also included a couple of government questions in order to see the level of commitment to correcting the wrongs done to people and please believe me that they are not meant to be gotcha questions.

Church/Spiritual Questions.

1. Is Jesus part of the Trinity, and so God?

2. Is Jesus doing the will of the Father in all things?

3. Did Jesus establish/confirm and not negate the commandments of God as established both in the OT, and the NT after His ascension?

4. Which canon of scripture do you believe is the Word of God, and what one would call the Bible? (Numerical number of books is sufficient to understand your acceptability of what is considered canon.)

Now for a more political/government driven ones.

5. To follow the word of God in allowing all immigrants, regardless of status, to enter the US and be cared for, would it be acceptable for the government to take resources from other countries—whether voluntarily or by force—to support them, and to stop anyone who tries to prevent this by any means necessary to accomplish said support to be done?

6. Is it acceptable for a country like the US to take whatever actions are necessary to prevent the suffering of people in any country, using any means required, even if those actions are not lawful under the other country's laws?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

Hmmm, "both you and God should agree", as ive said a little humility goes a long, long way, anyway that being said, so if thoughts are 0.005/10 then why does Christ say in Matthew 5:22 " Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgement and whosever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the council and whosever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of Hell fire"?,

If you are unrepentant in venial sin, you will go to hell. This does not mean there is no difference between a mortal and venial sin.

or in Matthew 5 vs 28 " Whosoever look on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his Heart", .... thoughts and words, equivalent to the deed itself and worthy of the same punishment,

Did you ask a colleague to A. think about throwing their coffee cup at you and then B. actually throw their coffee cup at you? Let's talk again about degrees of sin after you try this simple experiment.

For the seventh time, Jesus says four verses on in Matt 5:32 that whilst thoughts are sinful, actual adultery is worse and actual adultery (not thoughts) is the only grounds for a divorce.

ALL of our thoughts and words will be judged accordingly and some will be found as guilty as the act itself.

False. Christians will not be judged for any sin. Venial or mortal. Those that go to hell will be and according to their sin Rom 2:6.

But what if we dont even recognise the sins we've committed, different "branches of Christianity have different emphasis on Sin, some Christians concentrate on Homosexuality and Abortion and the promotion of the Nation State but gloss over Christs condemnation of riches, compassion for the poor and oppressed and pacifism. The problem with using a "Tick Box " approach is that youre not covering all your sins or those youve sinned against.

You need to go to court sometime and attend a hearing. Every criminal act is isolated and dealt with both individually and as a whole.

We battle with sin of ALL kinds, thoughts, words and deeds,

What utter CROCK!!!!!!

Do you think Paul would have written 3/4 of the NT if he continued in the sin of 'arranging for the murder Christians', if he visited Epstein's island?

Paul did continue battling with sins, he says so in Rom 7:15. But clearly not any mortal sins. David also sinned repeatedly in his life. But his career and being used by God all came to end when he committed two mortal sins.

 

[KingJ]

I can judge my own sin to a certain extent because i know the motivation behind it, i know what makes me tick, what drives me, i know nothing of others, what makes them do what they do, their background, their genetic make up, yes i can judge their actions but cant judge them, and the point you raise about the coffee cup, of course if someone threw a coffee cup at me and didnt just think of doing it i'd be a little upset,!!....... but what if the person that threw the cup was struggling with depression, or had just heard their Mum had passed away, or was in a financial mess, or had been brought up in an abusive household where violence was the answer to everything, and i was making smart Alec comments about them, what then ?, how would God judge that, you fail to see the complexities of Judging someone and just judge their actions, this is why we cannot judge anyone the way that God does, for he alone is righteous in his judgements and knows ALL the facts.

The point of the coffee cup is to show intent. Intent is tied 100% to degree of sin.

Before i answer this question i would like to know what ive said that leads you to the conclusion that you" suspect i'm a homosexual"?,

You speak 100% as they do. With your views, blanketing of sin, you would easily plug in to a pro homosexual ''Christian, cough cough cough'' church.

 

[Rad]

Thank-you Brother Steve for your reply. I will endeavor to put forward perhaps not something that I have already addressed as it pertains to Brother Johnson's writing that I provided to you and just address what you have seen as a divergence from the words of Jesus. In so doing, before I can even address that, I must know how or I should say, what you believe to be true as it pertains to Jesus the Christ. I also included a couple of government questions in order to see the level of commitment to correcting the wrongs done to people and please believe me that they are not meant to be gotcha questions.

Church/Spiritual Questions.

1. Is Jesus part of the Trinity, and so God?

2. Is Jesus doing the will of the Father in all things?

3. Did Jesus establish/confirm and not negate the commandments of God as established both in the OT, and the NT after His ascension?

4. Which canon of scripture do you believe is the Word of God, and what one would call the Bible? (Numerical number of books is sufficient to understand your acceptability of what is considered canon.)

Now for a more political/government driven ones.

5. To follow the word of God in allowing all immigrants, regardless of status, to enter the US and be cared for, would it be acceptable for the government to take resources from other countries—whether voluntarily or by force—to support them, and to stop anyone who tries to prevent this by any means necessary to accomplish said support to be done?

6. Is it acceptable for a country like the US to take whatever actions are necessary to prevent the suffering of people in any country, using any means required, even if those actions are not lawful under the other country's laws?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Before i answer these question let me say that i do not have a great understanding of Theology. so my answers may be well off the mark, but its what i believe so here goes,

! Yes i believe that Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost and is God who became incarnate.

" Yes i believe Jesus did the will of his Father even when his own wish was different.

3 Yes Jesus Confirmed the commandments of God and he also fulfilled the Commandments of God, in Matthew 5 vs 17-48 Jesus fulfilled many of the OT Commandments, he did not reject them, for this was Gods plan all along, he came not to destroy ,but to fulfill.

4 I believe the whole of the Bible is the word of God and while i have many difficulties in understanding much of it , accept it ALL as the word of God.

5 Let me first say that this situation will almost certainly never occur in this Evil world, a world, as i see it that is ruled by Satan and the Evil in mens hearts, will never be a place where Christs teachings will hold sway, but if i accept the scenario in theory then there would have been a massive change of heart of the US population so that unrestricted immigration can take place. If this has happened then it would probably also indicate a nation where Justice, Love and Compassion hold sway, it would therefore be incompatible in this situation to propose taking by force, other countries resources to fund this influx of migrants, The US could appeal for help from the so called "International Community", but the response might be less than expected. It would mean by and large the US funding the care of these immigrants, but who knows, if Love and compassion has taken hold in the US then perhaps its also taken hold in other countries, then perhaps instead of funding massive military and police structures , instead of spending huge amounts of money on things we want but dont need, , these resources could be used to fund Overseas Aid programmes that would make the lives of people living in poor countries so much better, that they no longer wish to leave all they know and love to travel elsewhere in search of a better life, because that better life is where they already live. We could then truly show Gods Love for his world, we could let our light of Love and Compassion and our good works so be seen by men that they "may glorify our Father which is in Heaven", for its hard to talk of Love, hard to talk of Faith in a loving God, hard to talk of Justice from the barrel of a gun or Deportation centre.

6 No i dont think its acceptable for the US to use whatever means to prevent the suffering of people in other countries, i am torn here between Christs commandment of loving your neighbour as yourself and treating others as you'd want to be treated and Christs commandment to not resist evil, turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. Its strange ,while i was thinking on this, on my youtube playlist that i'm listening to came Wycliff Jean and " Million Voices" about the genocide in Rwanda where 1 million men, women and children were murdered in a 3 month bloodbath while the rest of the world looked on and did nothing. My son was born on 6th April 1995, exactly 1 year after the genocide started, so its a poignant date for me, contrasting his birth with the mass killing of so many, and has always stayed as a special event in my calander. So what can i say, i believe Christ called on his followers to be pacifists, to turn the other cheek, to not rsist evil, to love our enemies, but how could i advocate that in relation to the genocide in Rwanda, or so many killing fields across this suffering world. what if i was a Huitu back in 1994, what would i want, how would i view others pacifism in doing nothing, .... its a case of knowing what i should do but not being able to advocate that and accepting Gods judgement for that, i would say where people are suffering, be it through Hunger, war, persecution or whatever, then the "International Community" must intervene to try to stop the suffering with actions, including a show of force if necessary, that would most likely deter any aggression by the perpetrator. For example , the recent genocide in Gaza, regardless of what you think about the causes, mass killing and destruction was taking place while the world just stood by and watched, in fact did worse than that, they provided Israel with the weapons and technology to enable the killing to continue, What if, instead of aiding the killing, the US, EU and others had imposed a complete ban on weapons to Israel, a complete ban on trade with Israel, the cutting of ALL financial links to credit and finance and an intervention force assembled and dispatched to Gaza to interpose themselves between the Israelis and Palestinians. That would surely have brought the killing to an end, kept the peace and enabled the reconstruction of Gaza and a sufficient flow of Aid to the people there.

There are no easy answers to such questions, i just try to take Christs teachings and apply them to any given situation, knowing all the time i'm a wretched sinner in an Evil, suffering world and that the only true solution to ending both my sin and the worlds suffering is when Christ returns, brings this whole sorry mess we've created to an end and instigates a new existence based on love.

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

 

[Christ4Ever]

Before i answer these question let me say that i do not have a great understanding of Theology. so my answers may be well off the mark, but its what i believe so here goes,

! Yes i believe that Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost and is God who became incarnate.

" Yes i believe Jesus did the will of his Father even when his own wish was different.

3 Yes Jesus Confirmed the commandments of God and he also fulfilled the Commandments of God, in Matthew 5 vs 17-48 Jesus fulfilled many of the OT Commandments, he did not reject them, for this was Gods plan all along, he came not to destroy ,but to fulfill.

4 I believe the whole of the Bible is the word of God and while i have many difficulties in understanding much of it , accept it ALL as the word of God.

Dear Brother Steve,
Thank-you for your reply.
I felt we would be like-minded in points 1-4, and your response confirmed it. At least, I had hoped that would be the case.

5 Let me first say that this situation will almost certainly never occur in this Evil world, a world, as i see it that is ruled by Satan and the Evil in mens hearts, will never be a place where Christs teachings will hold sway, but if i accept the scenario in theory then there would have been a massive change of heart of the US population so that unrestricted immigration can take place. If this has happened then it would probably also indicate a nation where Justice, Love and Compassion hold sway, it would therefore be incompatible in this situation to propose taking by force, other countries resources to fund this influx of migrants, The US could appeal for help from the so called "International Community", but the response might be less than expected. It would mean by and large the US funding the care of these immigrants, but who knows, if Love and compassion has taken hold in the US then perhaps its also taken hold in other countries, then perhaps instead of funding massive military and police structures , instead of spending huge amounts of money on things we want but dont need, , these resources could be used to fund Overseas Aid programmes that would make the lives of people living in poor countries so much better, that they no longer wish to leave all they know and love to travel elsewhere in search of a better life, because that better life is where they already live. We could then truly show Gods Love for his world, we could let our light of Love and Compassion and our good works so be seen by men that they "may glorify our Father which is in Heaven", for its hard to talk of Love, hard to talk of Faith in a loving God, hard to talk of Justice from the barrel of a gun or Deportation centre.

Now to the ones that are more typical to the day and age of the church that we are living in.

5. Since it is not or as you have said "never to occur in this Evil world, a world, as I see it that is ruled by Satan and the Evil in mens hearts", what you are telling me then is that no matter what we do to put in place the teachings of Christ, it will not happen. That no matter how we attempt to put our Lords teachings into practice the world as we know it will not change. This is why, He commanded us to something different. Matthew 28:18-20. and in so doing by this actions the change which is by the Holy Spirit, will move others to doing the same.

Sadly, when our focus becomes the actions of change, and not the avenue by which change can happen, not to the world, but by the Holy Spirit to illicit the individual transformation through Christ Jesus, we cease to be doing His will, and wind up doing our own. All else are but structures by which we can help to implement His command to go throughout the world...

Note: I am also glad to hear #5 from you. For to think otherwise is to believe in Dominionism or what is called Dominion Theology, that somehow, we must put into place a Nation Governed by Gods Law, before Jesus' return.

6 No i dont think its acceptable for the US to use whatever means to prevent the suffering of people in other countries, i am torn here between Christs commandment of loving your neighbour as yourself and treating others as you'd want to be treated and Christs commandment to not resist evil, turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. Its strange ,while i was thinking on this, on my youtube playlist that i'm listening to came Wycliff Jean and " Million Voices" about the genocide in Rwanda where 1 million men, women and children were murdered in a 3 month bloodbath while the rest of the world looked on and did nothing. My son was born on 6th April 1995, exactly 1 year after the genocide started, so its a poignant date for me, contrasting his birth with the mass killing of so many, and has always stayed as a special event in my calander. So what can i say, i believe Christ called on his followers to be pacifists, to turn the other cheek, to not rsist evil, to love our enemies, but how could i advocate that in relation to the genocide in Rwanda, or so many killing fields across this suffering world. what if i was a Huitu back in 1994, what would i want, how would i view others pacifism in doing nothing, .... its a case of knowing what i should do but not being able to advocate that and accepting Gods judgement for that, i would say where people are suffering, be it through Hunger, war, persecution or whatever, then the "International Community" must intervene to try to stop the suffering with actions, including a show of force if necessary, that would most likely deter any aggression by the perpetrator. For example , the recent genocide in Gaza, regardless of what you think about the causes, mass killing and destruction was taking place while the world just stood by and watched, in fact did worse than that, they provided Israel with the weapons and technology to enable the killing to continue, What if, instead of aiding the killing, the US, EU and others had imposed a complete ban on weapons to Israel, a complete ban on trade with Israel, the cutting of ALL financial links to credit and finance and an intervention force assembled and dispatched to Gaza to interpose themselves between the Israelis and Palestinians. That would surely have brought the killing to an end, kept the peace and enabled the reconstruction of Gaza and a sufficient flow of Aid to the people there.

You are starting to see exactly the problem at hand, and why unless force is used it will not change, and then but temporarily. We tout the end of the slave trade, though it continues to this day, but to institute it at least as much as we have it took great violence to achieve. Whether it was by sea or land (US Civil War), man knows no other way by their actions to attempt to put into place what Christ has called the individual to be. The sinful nature knows no other way to attempt to be godlike in application, and as believers we know that only the Holy Spirit provides/allows for the transformation that is eternal for it is spiritual and not temporal in nature or power that makes lasting change possible through Christ Jesus.

As we draw closer to God, we see the sin in us/humanity all the more, yet all the more necessary to the day it is cast away from who we are in Christ Jesus one final time in complete submission as all barriers are done away with; to be raised up anew on that day, we need to keep living out Matthew 28:18-20. Everything else will fall into place—or not—as God wills, at the End of Days.

There are no easy answers to such questions, i just try to take Christs teachings and apply them to any given situation, knowing all the time i'm a wretched sinner in an Evil, suffering world and that the only true solution to ending both my sin and the worlds suffering is when Christ returns, brings this whole sorry mess we've created to an end and instigates a new existence based on love.

What you are called to do is what He told us to do:

Jesus came and told his disciples, "I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Even as humanity’s actions weigh on you, showing a lack of love and causing unnecessary pain and suffering, no matter what you do or don’t do, remain steadfast in letting God work without standing in His way. The system in place is not what is wrong for it has been instituted by God, but the individuals themselves, for as a believer I have said it before, change is by the Holy Spirit through Christ Jesus. God's Grace, Mercy is sufficient, to His will being done. That is, if you allow it, but without faith in Jesus to transform others through the Holy Spirit, evil will remain the same, only wearing a different face.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Rad]

If you are unrepentant in venial sin, you will go to hell. This does not mean there is no difference between a mortal and venial sin.

You repeatedly make a clear distinction between Mortal and Venial sin, on what Biblical teaching is that based, and did Christ himself ever make this distinction. Could i also ask , in your opinion, is being Rich a Mortal or venial sin, is failing to hunger and thirst for Justice and kindness to those in need a mortal or venial sin, is leading a life built upon the use of fossil fuels and a diet built upon Animal Agriculture, both of which are the major drivers in destroying Gods creation, a Mortal or venial sin, and is the support of a President who cuts Overseas Aid leading to millions more deaths and huge suffering, massively increases Military spending, destroys Environmental protections and implements a harsh and brutal Immigration policy, a Mortal or Venial sin?,.... just one more question, if thoughts are 0.005% of concern to God in relation to sin, then why does Christ explicitly say in Matthew 5:22 " Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgement and whosever shall say to his brother Raca shall be in danger of the council and whosever shall say thou fool shall be in danger of Hell fire"?, after referring to actual Murder, condemning both to the same Judgement?.

Did you ask a colleague to A. think about throwing their coffee cup at you and then B. actually throw their coffee cup at you? Let's talk again about degrees of sin after you try this simple experiment.

For the seventh time, Jesus says four verses on in Matt 5:32 that whilst thoughts are sinful, actual adultery is worse and actual adultery (not thoughts) is the only grounds for a divorce.

I think youre confusing Earthly and Heavenly Judgement, no one can see inside anothers head, so how can anyone on Earth be convicted for their thoughts unless of course they admit to them, as in the confessional, which again by tradition is inviolate, being between God and the Confessor, so in Earthly terms, thoughts of Adultery are no grounds for divorce because they cant be proved, whereas the act of adultery can be, but in Heavenly terms, BOTH thoughts of Adultery and the act of Adultery are equally sinful and both require repentance.

False. Christians will not be judged for any sin. Venial or mortal. Those that go to hell will be and according to their sin Rom 2:6.

I think youre jumping the gun a little here, to be a Christian means they have already been judged and found acceptable in Gods eyes, their sins will already have been judged, and as Christ says in Matthew 7 vs 21-27, "not everyone that calls me Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven...... MANY will say Lord... but i will say i know you not", we are ALL sinners, all dependent on Gods grace for our salvation, yet despite our divergent views on what constitutes being a follower of Christ still believe that we shall be found acceptable to God , how can that be?, it seems to me that foolish is the man or woman who takes their salvation for granted.

You need to go to court sometime and attend a hearing. Every criminal act is isolated and dealt with both individually and as a whole.

You think that Christ was wrong in Matthew 6 vs 6-15 when he said "After this manner pray" Our Father which art in heaven....."?, ....... and you see the Day of Judgement as an Earthly court, Hmmm, interesting, it seems to me there will be nothing "courtly" about it, no defence, no pleading, for thats already known to God , just a passing of Judgement from which there will be no appeal.

What utter CROCK!!!!!!

Do you think Paul would have written 3/4 of the NT if he continued in the sin of 'arranging for the murder Christians', if he visited Epstein's island?

Paul did continue battling with sins, he says so in Rom 7:15. But clearly not any mortal sins. David also sinned repeatedly in his life. But his career and being used by God all came to end when he committed two mortal sins.

Actually when i said "We ALL sin, in thought and word and deed" i was thinking more of people living today not thousands of years ago, although saying that, Paul was a man, inspired by God, but a man none the less, and as such subject to sin like the rest of us. Even Christ when addressed as "Good Master..." said, "who calls me good, no one is good except my Father in heaven", .... and it does seem a little ironic that you start out with "What utter CROCK" in reply to my statement that we ALL sin, but then go on to say that Paul did continue battling with sins, so like the rest of us is subject to sin, in thought, word and deed.

 

[Rad]

The point of the coffee cup is to show intent. Intent is tied 100% to degree of sin.

Intent is of course tied to sin, but you are missing an important element here, what caused that intent, for from those that have been given much, much will be expected, conversely from those that have been given little ,little will be expected, and "given much" isnt just about material goods, its our background, our genetic make up, our life experiences, all thats brought us to where we are, Christ also spoke of those that sin but did not know the will of their master will be beaten with few stripes, and of those that do know the will of their master and still sin they will be beaten with many stripes, the same act with the same intent can lead to entirely different judgements based on the circumstances of the one that commits that act. To refer back to your Earthly Court view of Judgement, its like "mitigating circumstances", although these wont need to be explained, for God knows ALL and only he can pass a Righteous and Just Judgement.

You speak 100% as they do. With your views, blanketing of sin, you would easily plug in to a pro homosexual ''Christian, cough cough cough'' church.

I'm interested to know more, what do "they" and myself speak like?, and what views and "blanketing of sin" do we share, and how does that enable me to "easily plug into a pro Homosexual, cough, cough, church",....... from your last comment about a "pro Homosexual cough, cough church" , i think youre implying that in your opinion those people are not in fact members of a "Church" and are not what you see as "real" Christians, and i would imagine that feeling would be reciprocated, so who are the "true Christians", and what in your opinion makes that so?.

 

[KingJ]

You repeatedly make a clear distinction between Mortal and Venial sin, on what Biblical teaching is that based,

Please read my OP here - Degrees of sin - Poll

and did Christ himself ever make this distinction.

Incorrect. Matt 5:28 vs Matt 5:32.

so in Earthly terms, thoughts of Adultery are no grounds for divorce because they cant be proved,

Come on man, you are not thinking. Please meditate more on what you say. Of course you can prove someone has a thought. Every guy turning their head as a pretty woman in tight pants walks past is according to you thinking about a glazed donut?

Have you scratched out Matt 5:32 from your bible?

I think youre jumping the gun a little here, to be a Christian means they have already been judged and found acceptable in Gods eyes, their sins will already have been judged, and as Christ says in Matthew 7 vs 21-27, "not everyone that calls me Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven...... MANY will say Lord... but i will say i know you not", we are ALL sinners, all dependent on Gods grace for our salvation, yet despite our divergent views on what constitutes being a follower of Christ still believe that we shall be found acceptable to God , how can that be?, it seems to me that foolish is the man or woman who takes their salvation for granted.

Yes a Christian has been judged and accepted by God. You are touching on a topic that is discussed by many over hundreds of pages. OSAS vs non OSAS. I will just say that God can properly judge us Jer 17:9-12, even you acknowledged that in your post. So, if God can properly judge, why assume someone gifted eternal life can lose it? Is it not smarter to teach that they never got it in the first place? You see if you truly believe in non-OSAS you have to by default also believe A. God makes mistakes and cannot properly judge (opposing Num 23:19 and Job 34:12) and B. Not believe in eternal bliss, as if we can fall from grace, we can fall from it at anytime (opposing John 3:16).

As for the verse you quoted. You need to read the full passage, not only '''I never knew you''. When you do you will find that these people cast out demons (vanity), healed the sick (vanity) and prophesied (vanity). Did any of them help orphans (selfless) and widows in need (selfless)? If they did, Jesus would not say to them '''I do not know you''.

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

You think that Christ was wrong in Matthew 6 vs 6-15 when he said "After this manner pray" Our Father which art in heaven....."?, ....... and you see the Day of Judgement as an Earthly court, Hmmm, interesting, it seems to me there will be nothing "courtly" about it, no defence, no pleading, for thats already known to God , just a passing of Judgement from which there will be no appeal.

I don't agree. I do believe and see God ''going through the motions'' with us. He always properly explains Himself and is an open book for us to judge and examine.

But, you are missing the original point made. The original statement was a reply to you saying ''some churches are fine with homosexuality and others not''. This is a very good example to use as a case study of sin. If for example a child is brainwashed with this nonsense and passes the key age of 20, being a lot more accommodating and accepting of the sin. God considers this in His judgement of them.

However, at the same time, the following fact is also very true. When you give your life to Jesus, the Holy Spirit immediately starts working on you. He will convict you of all sin John 16:8-11. Whether you are more accustomed to it or not becomes completely and utterly irrelevant.

I was that person. All my friends were sexual sinners. It was my life. I said to God that if this sin gets me into hell then He made me for hell. I gave my life to Jesus as I saw how much He loves me. He showed my how much my sins upset Him and I stopped them.

 

[KingJ]

Actually when i said "We ALL sin, in thought and word and deed" i was thinking more of people living today not thousands of years ago, although saying that, Paul was a man, inspired by God, but a man none the less, and as such subject to sin like the rest of us. Even Christ when addressed as "Good Master..." said, "who calls me good, no one is good except my Father in heaven", .... and it does seem a little ironic that you start out with "What utter CROCK" in reply to my statement that we ALL sin, but then go on to say that Paul did continue battling with sins, so like the rest of us is subject to sin, in thought, word and deed.

The context of 'utter crock' is the suggestion that Paul battled with mortal sins. He battled with venial sins, as we all do. If you are battling with mortal sins, you are not a Christian. If you are unrepentant in venial or mortal sins, you are not a Christian.

A Christian can make a mistake of a mortal sin. Battling with mortal sin is not the same as making a mistake.

Take David as an example. He made two mistakes of mortal sins. He did not continue in adultery and murder. Paul arranged for the murder of Christians before he was saved. He did not continue with it or ever become guilty of any mortal sin like rape, adultery, sorcery.

This is really not hard to grasp. You have danced around this very logical and true fact for so long now.

By teaching that ''sin is sin'' full stop, you are stumbling the weak and guilty of false teaching. There is a world of difference of evil intent between a venial and mortal sin.

Please do that test I asked you to do. Tell someone to think about throwing a coffee mug at you and then ask them to actually throw it at you. Let's chat after.

 

[MedicBravo]

You'll notice three things in all this:
Greater visibility.
Greater frequency
Greater intensity

That's why this time is equated to "birth pains".

“Birth Pains” of Revelation​

• Refers to escalating global events: wars, famines, plagues, persecution (Revelation 6–18).
• Events increase in severity and frequency (Seals → Trumpets → Bowls).
• Periods of judgment followed by intensification.
• Ends in the return of Christ and the establishment of a new order (Revelation 21–22).
  

Pattern: Gradual Escalation

• Early signs: deception, wars, earthquakes (Matthew 24).
• Seal judgments (Revelation 6).
• Trumpet judgments (Revelation 8–11).
• Bowl judgments (Revelation 16).
• Christ’s return and final restoration.

Purpose:

• Tribulation precedes renewal.
• Leads to:
  • The return of Christ.
  • Final judgment.
  • The new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21).
• The pain precedes spiritual rebirth of creation.

Loss of Control vs Divine Sovereignty:

• Fear and upheaval.
• Yet hope for believers — suffering is temporary.
• Culminates in restoration and justice.
  
  
  
• Labor pains:
  • Produce new physical life.

Revelation’s birth pains:

• Produce cosmic renewal and judgment.