SpiritLedEd
Member
Regarding John 6:70, my study Bible says that Jesus' referring to Judas as "a devil" meant that Judas would betray Him under the influence of Satan. He wasn't implying that Judas was a demon.
SLE
SLE
once saved, always saved????
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Cody
Member
Once Born Again of the Spirit of God, Always Born Again of the Spirit of God.
John 3:3-7
3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." KJV
If you can't be unborn of your mother's womb, you can't be unborn of the Spirit.
John 3:3-7
3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." KJV
If you can't be unborn of your mother's womb, you can't be unborn of the Spirit.
Word of Life
Member
People were saved before Jesus was crucified. As the Spirit of God rested upon them, but today, it's within us, in our hearts, He has placed His law in our minds and hearts, and He walks with His people.
Even Jesus, he received the Spirit of God, only after being babtized, the Spirit of God only rested upon him too. It was only after Jesus was crucified, it changed.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
The difference between the old and the new. The old testament, there were only a few of them, which had the Spirit of God and people had to travel to see that person (Man of God). But today, it's totally different, each and everyone of us, whom excepts and confesses, that Jesus as his Lord and savour and God raised him from the dead, and beleives it, in their heart, are saved.
Here something from the Truth or Tradition web site: -
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1. In the Old Testament and Gospels, holy spirit was said to be upon believers, but in the Millennial Kingdom it will be in believers.
Ezekiel 36:26 and 27 (RSV)
(26) A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.
Jesus thoroughly knew the Old Testament and its promises, and made sure his followers knew that holy spirit would be “in” people.
John 14:17 (Author’s translation) [2]
that is the spirit of truth, which the world is not able to receive, for it does not see it, neither knows it. You know it, for it is present with you, and will be in you.
2. In the Old Testament and Gospels, only a few believers had holy spirit, but in the Millennial Kingdom it will be in all believers. Joel made this very clear.
Joel 2:28 and 29
(28) “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit [spirit] on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.
(29) Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit [spirit] in those days.
3. In the Old Testament and Gospels, God gave holy spirit in a limited way, by measure, but in the Millennial Kingdom it will be poured out in abundance.
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Old Testament Spirit:
Num 24:2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.
1Sa 11:6 And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.
New Testament Spirit:
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
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Word of Life
Member
Yes, if one is born in spirit, yes I would say, it's very hard to walk away or loose it.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Repentance is the key. One needs to repent and walk away from all evil. Our hearts need to be circumcised, and that takes time. And this can only be done, by having a daily relationship with God and our Lord Jesus Christ, through the communion of the holy spirit.
2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
There are many out in the world, who go through all the rules and rituals and then afterwards, it all stops or satan sets a trap and people fall for it. Or the lusts of this world entangle them, as they can't walk way from those lusts of this world. They do all the outward, but forget the inward part.
Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
The temptations will always be there, and as with Jesus, the devil only departed from him, for only a season. Like-wise with us too. So we need to endure, fight back with the Sword of the Spirit, and ask God for strength daily, and ask Him to help us in changing the inward parts of ourselves.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
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Salvation is eternal - no doubt about that, and the Bible is very clear on that, however one may choose to interpret it!
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Hebrews 5:9 "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him"
One thing that will clear up the doubts of some is that Jesus died and rose again for our sins and paid the full price to redeeem us about 2000 years ago - before any of us was born on this earth. When he paid for our sins at that time, He paid for our entire lifetime after we were to come into existence, i.e. from the moment we were to be born to the moment we are to die. Hence for some to suggest that if we sin again after being born again, we will loose our salvation need to think it over again, since the sins of our entire lifetime were considered and paid for even before they were committed.
For those having a problem with 1 John 3:6-9, the verses are talking about a lifestyle of sin, not about individual sins. The verses stand true - those who continue to indulge in a lifestyle of sin, have probably never been born again and do not have The Spirit of God in them. But a believer can and does sin and does get the required forgiveness when he comes to God in repentance. Consider the agony of Paul in Romans 7:14-24. Was Paul condemned to eternal hell because he had this conflict going on in him? Certainly not. Why is Jesus standing and pleading before God as our Advocate 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Does this verse not clearly state that the believers are capable of sinning but they have a way out?
Can a believer loose his salvation because he decides to turn away from Jesus and become and 'atheist' or follower of some other 'god'? Well, refer back to the quotation from John 10:28 above, Jesus says "neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.";
Also consider Colossians 3:3, 4 "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory."
Once saved, our 'life' is preserved under the care of Jesus and no one (- ourselves included) can take it away from Him. The fundamental question remains, was it handed over to Him in the first place or was it just assumed that it was!
See how paul emphatically states this in 2Timothy 1:12 "For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day." Paul's confidence was not on his own ability to maintain his salvation, but on the abilty of Jesus to do it for him.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 "13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss;but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." makes it very clear that only our rewards will be ascertained by our works, not our salvation. At the time of judgement when our life of faith is scrutinised, we might turn out to be paupers with nothing worthwhile to show or be rewarded for, but our salvation will not be lost just because we have not done even one thing worthy of a reward. Jesus, in Mark 9:41 said even a cup of water given in His name will be rewarded "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward." That assures us that every thing we do is being and will be accounted for.
Another verse that has been quoted to bring in the issue of works into maintaining salvation is Phillippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" Take a look at it again - it does not say, as is often assumed, "work for your salvation". Read in conjunction with the other verses in the passage, it simply states, demonstrate your state of salvation through your works.
One more verse that has been often mis-understood in this context is from James 2:20 "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" Again, the scripture is not wrong, our interpretation gives it a wrong meaning. James is not saying "Faith without works is non-existent!" - is a dead thing non-existent? It very much exists, only that it is in-effective. It is our mistake to take this verse to mean that our faith is dependant on our works. It is merely stating that if our works do not speak for our faith ours is an in-effective faith. Our works show the efficacy and results of our faith, not its presence.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Hebrews 5:9 "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him"
One thing that will clear up the doubts of some is that Jesus died and rose again for our sins and paid the full price to redeeem us about 2000 years ago - before any of us was born on this earth. When he paid for our sins at that time, He paid for our entire lifetime after we were to come into existence, i.e. from the moment we were to be born to the moment we are to die. Hence for some to suggest that if we sin again after being born again, we will loose our salvation need to think it over again, since the sins of our entire lifetime were considered and paid for even before they were committed.
For those having a problem with 1 John 3:6-9, the verses are talking about a lifestyle of sin, not about individual sins. The verses stand true - those who continue to indulge in a lifestyle of sin, have probably never been born again and do not have The Spirit of God in them. But a believer can and does sin and does get the required forgiveness when he comes to God in repentance. Consider the agony of Paul in Romans 7:14-24. Was Paul condemned to eternal hell because he had this conflict going on in him? Certainly not. Why is Jesus standing and pleading before God as our Advocate 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Does this verse not clearly state that the believers are capable of sinning but they have a way out?
Can a believer loose his salvation because he decides to turn away from Jesus and become and 'atheist' or follower of some other 'god'? Well, refer back to the quotation from John 10:28 above, Jesus says "neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.";
Also consider Colossians 3:3, 4 "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory."
Once saved, our 'life' is preserved under the care of Jesus and no one (- ourselves included) can take it away from Him. The fundamental question remains, was it handed over to Him in the first place or was it just assumed that it was!
See how paul emphatically states this in 2Timothy 1:12 "For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day." Paul's confidence was not on his own ability to maintain his salvation, but on the abilty of Jesus to do it for him.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 "13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss;but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." makes it very clear that only our rewards will be ascertained by our works, not our salvation. At the time of judgement when our life of faith is scrutinised, we might turn out to be paupers with nothing worthwhile to show or be rewarded for, but our salvation will not be lost just because we have not done even one thing worthy of a reward. Jesus, in Mark 9:41 said even a cup of water given in His name will be rewarded "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward." That assures us that every thing we do is being and will be accounted for.
Another verse that has been quoted to bring in the issue of works into maintaining salvation is Phillippians 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;" Take a look at it again - it does not say, as is often assumed, "work for your salvation". Read in conjunction with the other verses in the passage, it simply states, demonstrate your state of salvation through your works.
One more verse that has been often mis-understood in this context is from James 2:20 "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" Again, the scripture is not wrong, our interpretation gives it a wrong meaning. James is not saying "Faith without works is non-existent!" - is a dead thing non-existent? It very much exists, only that it is in-effective. It is our mistake to take this verse to mean that our faith is dependant on our works. It is merely stating that if our works do not speak for our faith ours is an in-effective faith. Our works show the efficacy and results of our faith, not its presence.
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The spirit BORN OF GOD? CANNOT SIN.
The flesh of that spirit is still the same , it has not changed .it will sin , if we the spirit born of GOD allows it?
All sin brings the same results? DEATH
sin will still bring sickness and death to our bodies! we ask forgiveness and repent for the bodies sake.
other wise it will grow sick and die or suffer before its time!
No spirit born of GOD, wants to sin , our spirit hates sin or anything that does not please our Father GOD!
the only difference between us and the world is our spirit, our spirit has no sin . there spirit is just like there body ? sinful!
salvation is of our spirit!
That is why we must be born again, made over in our spirit!
We become a new creature! a sin less creature. dwelling in a sin filled body!
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This scripture is 100% truth and if we see it for what it says?
Then we will understand much more about our lives here in these bodies!
We being our Spirit!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
If you read this ? You will see? the seed we are born of ? cannot be corrupted
Sin is the only thing that corupts
.
The flesh of that spirit is still the same , it has not changed .it will sin , if we the spirit born of GOD allows it?
All sin brings the same results? DEATH
sin will still bring sickness and death to our bodies! we ask forgiveness and repent for the bodies sake.
other wise it will grow sick and die or suffer before its time!
No spirit born of GOD, wants to sin , our spirit hates sin or anything that does not please our Father GOD!
the only difference between us and the world is our spirit, our spirit has no sin . there spirit is just like there body ? sinful!
salvation is of our spirit!
That is why we must be born again, made over in our spirit!
We become a new creature! a sin less creature. dwelling in a sin filled body!
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This scripture is 100% truth and if we see it for what it says?
Then we will understand much more about our lives here in these bodies!
We being our Spirit!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
If you read this ? You will see? the seed we are born of ? cannot be corrupted
Sin is the only thing that corupts
.I am not quite sure that I understand what you are trying to say spirit1st.The spirit BORN OF GOD? CANNOT SIN.
The flesh of that spirit is still the same , it has not changed .it will sin , if we the spirit born of GOD allows it?
All sin brings the same results? DEATH
sin will still bring sickness and death to our bodies! we ask forgiveness and repent for the bodies sake.
other wise it will grow sick and die or suffer before its time!
No spirit born of GOD, wants to sin , our spirit hates sin or anything that does not please our Father GOD!
the only difference between us and the world is our spirit, our spirit has no sin . there spirit is just like there body ? sinful!
salvation is of our spirit!
That is why we must be born again, made over in our spirit!
We become a new creature! a sin less creature. dwelling in a sin filled body!
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
This scripture is 100% truth and if we see it for what it says?
Then we will understand much more about our lives here in these bodies!
We being our Spirit!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.
If you read this ? You will see? the seed we are born of ? cannot be corrupted
Sin is the only thing that corupts
Does the spirit ever sin? The flesh does, so does the soul, but the spirit?
Could you please give some more details and scripture quotations on the spirit's sinning.
Secondly, according to your understanding, does a born again believer sin after being saved or not?
SpiritLedEd
Member
When we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, His Spirit begins to move in us through our decision making process. Our spirit no longer wants us to sin. But our sin nature is still present and active in our lives.
I think Paul explained it very clearly in Romans 7:25b - 8:2, "I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."
SLE
I think Paul explained it very clearly in Romans 7:25b - 8:2, "I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death."
SLE
Cody
Member
Salvation is not a work. We don't save ourselves and we can't keep ourselves saved. GOD saves us and seals us by His own power. True Salvation by God will last forever. If you walk away from Christ completely, you never experienced Salvation the first place. If you say you can lose your Salvation, you're saying that YOU hold your Salvation. However, God is the holder of Salvation.
1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." KJV
1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." KJV
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Here is Matthew Henry's Commentary on 1 John 2:19 that explains it nicely as well.
MHC
1. More positively.
They were once entertainers or professors of apostolical doctrine: "They went out from us (v. 19), from our company and communion;’’ possibly from the church of Jerusalem, or some of the churches of Judea, as Acts 15:1 this was done (or , Certain men came down from Judea, and taught the brethren, etc. The purest churches may have their apostates and revolters; the apostolic doctrine did not convert all whom it convinced of its truth.
2. More privately. "They were not inwardly such as we are: But they were not of us; they had not from the heart obeyed the form of sound doctrine delivered to them; they were not of our union with Christ the head.’’ Then here is, (1.) The reason upon which it is concluded that they were not of us, were not what they pretended, or what we are, and that is their actual defection: "For, if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us (v. 19); had the sacred truth been rooted in their hearts it would have held them with us; had they had the anointing from above, by which they had been made true and real Christians, they would not have turned antichrists.’’
Those that apostatize from religion sufficiently indicate that, before, they were hypocrites in religion: those who have imbibed the spirit of gospel truth have a good preservative against destructive error. (2.) The reason why they are permitted thus to depart from apostolical doctrine and communion—that their insincerity may be detected: But they went out) that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us, v. 19. The church knows not well who are its vital members and who are not; and therefore the church, considered as internally sanctified, may well be styled invisible.
Some of the hypocritical must be manifested here, and that for their own shame and benefit too, in their reduction to the truth, if they have not sinned unto death, and for the terror and caution of others. You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, etc., 2 Pt. 3:17, 18.
MHC
1. More positively.
They were once entertainers or professors of apostolical doctrine: "They went out from us (v. 19), from our company and communion;’’ possibly from the church of Jerusalem, or some of the churches of Judea, as Acts 15:1 this was done (or , Certain men came down from Judea, and taught the brethren, etc. The purest churches may have their apostates and revolters; the apostolic doctrine did not convert all whom it convinced of its truth.
2. More privately. "They were not inwardly such as we are: But they were not of us; they had not from the heart obeyed the form of sound doctrine delivered to them; they were not of our union with Christ the head.’’ Then here is, (1.) The reason upon which it is concluded that they were not of us, were not what they pretended, or what we are, and that is their actual defection: "For, if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us (v. 19); had the sacred truth been rooted in their hearts it would have held them with us; had they had the anointing from above, by which they had been made true and real Christians, they would not have turned antichrists.’’
Those that apostatize from religion sufficiently indicate that, before, they were hypocrites in religion: those who have imbibed the spirit of gospel truth have a good preservative against destructive error. (2.) The reason why they are permitted thus to depart from apostolical doctrine and communion—that their insincerity may be detected: But they went out) that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us, v. 19. The church knows not well who are its vital members and who are not; and therefore the church, considered as internally sanctified, may well be styled invisible.
Some of the hypocritical must be manifested here, and that for their own shame and benefit too, in their reduction to the truth, if they have not sinned unto death, and for the terror and caution of others. You therefore, beloved, seeing you know these things before, beware lest you also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, etc., 2 Pt. 3:17, 18.
NOT understanding Salvation will give us the wrong answer!
SALVATION is a new creature ,BORN OF GOD!
judging by our sin filled flesh is NOT the answer!
Judging by What HE has done within us is the answer!
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
DOES this scripture not mean NEVER LEAVE or forsake or does it mean? you mess up i am out of you!
Now i know some reject these scriptures as untrue or used some odd way or something!
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
these scriptures are just as true as any scripture in the bible. But because some are taught by man kind, they are still sinners? They refuse to accept these as TRUTH!
They are truth 100% .
The question then becomes ? How do they fit in our lives? Very simple, they are about our spirit , once BORN into the family and household of GOD. He is the Father of spirits. spirits without sin.
He is not the Father of any flesh on this earth. all flesh dies because of only one reason? SIN, it kills everything it touches.
The only difference between the world and GODS children are there spirits.There flesh is just the same.
Until we understand what He has done for us and our place in HIm, We will not have good understanding of scripture!
We CANNOT reject some for others . All scripture is 100% true and fits perfectly together!
But many scriptures are never taught. Why? because they will not fit in with the way many have been taught to believe and live!
This is Very sad, Because we are rejecting TRUTH and JESUS CHRIST is TRUTH!
Where does that leave us in OUR LORD?
I will not judge others, as I do not know why they have rejected the LIVING WORD???
We MUST tell ourselves , no matter what price I must pay? I will accept the LIVING WORD as TRUTH. Even if I do not have the perfect understanding!
Many will argue the scriptures , i see nothing wrong in this, But we will ALWAYS admit , they are ALL true! This is very important in our lives and in our LORD and MASTER JESUS CHRIST our KING!
My question to any willing to answer or able to answer? Who is this man, That sin is not imputed to. Because as we All know ? GOD is NO RESPECTER of persons!
Meaning at least to me? He does not count me more than you , nor you more than me!
hint?
It is the same being that cannot sin!
Our spirit born of the perfect uncorruptible HOLY SEED!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God
i know i say things that are 100% truth, but many do not understand as they are Not taught these spiritual type Trues!
But it is important to know the full truth or at least as much as we are able to know as we are All growing in TRUTh and UNDERSTANDING!
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
HIS living Word feeds our Spirit!
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
NOTHING wrong with LEARNING , it is when we refuse to learn and there for grow , that we have a problem!
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
there seems to be a problem with us? we seem to preper to follow other men than our LORD???
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
SALVATION is a new creature ,BORN OF GOD!
judging by our sin filled flesh is NOT the answer!
Judging by What HE has done within us is the answer!
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
DOES this scripture not mean NEVER LEAVE or forsake or does it mean? you mess up i am out of you!
Now i know some reject these scriptures as untrue or used some odd way or something!
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
these scriptures are just as true as any scripture in the bible. But because some are taught by man kind, they are still sinners? They refuse to accept these as TRUTH!
They are truth 100% .
The question then becomes ? How do they fit in our lives? Very simple, they are about our spirit , once BORN into the family and household of GOD. He is the Father of spirits. spirits without sin.
He is not the Father of any flesh on this earth. all flesh dies because of only one reason? SIN, it kills everything it touches.
The only difference between the world and GODS children are there spirits.There flesh is just the same.
Until we understand what He has done for us and our place in HIm, We will not have good understanding of scripture!
We CANNOT reject some for others . All scripture is 100% true and fits perfectly together!
But many scriptures are never taught. Why? because they will not fit in with the way many have been taught to believe and live!
This is Very sad, Because we are rejecting TRUTH and JESUS CHRIST is TRUTH!
Where does that leave us in OUR LORD?
I will not judge others, as I do not know why they have rejected the LIVING WORD???
We MUST tell ourselves , no matter what price I must pay? I will accept the LIVING WORD as TRUTH. Even if I do not have the perfect understanding!
Many will argue the scriptures , i see nothing wrong in this, But we will ALWAYS admit , they are ALL true! This is very important in our lives and in our LORD and MASTER JESUS CHRIST our KING!
My question to any willing to answer or able to answer? Who is this man, That sin is not imputed to. Because as we All know ? GOD is NO RESPECTER of persons!
Meaning at least to me? He does not count me more than you , nor you more than me!
hint?
It is the same being that cannot sin!
Our spirit born of the perfect uncorruptible HOLY SEED!
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God
i know i say things that are 100% truth, but many do not understand as they are Not taught these spiritual type Trues!
But it is important to know the full truth or at least as much as we are able to know as we are All growing in TRUTh and UNDERSTANDING!
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
HIS living Word feeds our Spirit!
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
NOTHING wrong with LEARNING , it is when we refuse to learn and there for grow , that we have a problem!
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
there seems to be a problem with us? we seem to preper to follow other men than our LORD???
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Chad I have a serious problem with this. If salvation is not taken as eternal, damnation also cannot be taken as eternal either - and you have quite emphatically defended as damnation being eternal earlier!
Secondly, where is the question of being logical in faith and God's love?
What logic can ever explain God's love?
What logic can explain that someone dies on a cross 2000 years ago and because of that my sins are forgiven and I am given the privelage of being God's son and member of heaven today?
But more seriously, take another look at the three 'Lost and Found' parables in Luke 15. The sheep was lost from the shepherd's fold. The coin was lost from the woman's possesion. The son was lost from the father's house. And lest you try to take comfort in verses 7 & 10 of this chapter, these verses are simply stating that heaven and angel's rejoice at the return of a sinner. They do not state that the rejoicing is only the first time that happens, nor do they state that only one or a limited number of chances of repentance is permitted, after that there is no more chance. The shepherd, the woman, the father - all rejoiced exhuberantly at the restoration/return of the lost ones back to where they were lost from. None was banished or considered unworthy of restoration. Think about it - the only sheep that rode back home on the shepherd's shoulders was the lost one. The one who was publically kissed and hugged and honored and then a party thrown for him was the prodigal son. Does that leave any doubts or leave any limits on God's love and willingness to restore the lost when they repent?
Then again what does 'to turn away from God' mean? If a believer backslides into wordliness and a wayward life, but continues to say that he is not an atheist, what would that be? On the other hand, if the backlider just says that he no longer believes in God but lives an honest, principled, just and moral life, how would he fare vis-a-vis the other one? Is their any standard or way to equate or differentiate between these two? Who is the one that has not turned away from God? Can the second one be banished just because he said he did not believe in God but lived as if he did and the first one given a chance for restoration because though he did no speak out loud his unbelief in God, yet by his life and works showed an utter disregard for God?
I personally know of people who were saved, walked with the Lord, were used by Him, then fell away. After some years, they repented of their folly and returned and now are being used even more mightly by the Lord.
Both Spirit1st in his post and I in my post earlier have pointed out that no one (ourselves included) can take a saved person out of God & Jesus' hand. He will never leave nor forsake us - no matter what. Sure we will suffer loss of rewards in heaven and loss of peace with other consequences here on earth because of backsliding and an in-approprite life, but loss of salvation - never.
Cody
Member
Amen, if we could lose our salvation, I'd live in fear all my life. To know that if I messed up, I could lose my salvation...That is terrifying. Where is the comfort in that? I believe God can keep someone saved and I always will.
1 Corinthians 3:15
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." KJV
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
You see? At salvation we are giving ourselves OVER to HIM.
We are saying take me , I now belong to you and trust you to keep me forever more! It is NO more my will, but Yours!
Now it is true, the called can lose salvation as they do not have it yet! They are only called to be able to be part of the elect! They are not the elect yet , but can be? They are tested and tried!
The elect have already been willing to give there all to our LORD and have been accepted into HIS family!
Once in HIS family, the children have accept HIm as the power over there lives! The Father rules and protects and deals with HIS household. But He never kicks any child out!
He has never lost even one of HIS family ever . if satan could taske even one of GODS children, that would make the Father a failure . He could not even keep HIS own body !
HE does NOT lose Any!
The angels and many other beings , He has made are watching HIM.
There is much more at stake than just mankind?
He must appear the victory in every way to all of HEAVEN. Which of course HE is! We need to understand beyond this world. We need to understand how Heaven looks at these things. Then we will understand Why, HE must Always win at everything He Does!
We are watched always from heaven by many!
Not only how we handle life, But what HE does in our lives!
There is a two fold reason why they all want to watch us?
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
We affect the heavens and of course HIS KINGDOM!
This just shows we are having an affect on even Heaven!
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
We tend to be self centered thinking we are the only thing at stake or that matters. This is untrue!
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
EVERYTHING has a Spiritual meaning first! then we see the results in our flesh and the earth!
it takes place in our heart first [spirit] salvation is of our spirit , then we see the change in the outward life of the person. As with All spiritual gifts , the gift is in the spirit, which we do not see, but we will see the results in that persons life after they get it , if they are willing?
You see? At salvation we are giving ourselves OVER to HIM.
We are saying take me , I now belong to you and trust you to keep me forever more! It is NO more my will, but Yours!
Now it is true, the called can lose salvation as they do not have it yet! They are only called to be able to be part of the elect! They are not the elect yet , but can be? They are tested and tried!
The elect have already been willing to give there all to our LORD and have been accepted into HIS family!
Once in HIS family, the children have accept HIm as the power over there lives! The Father rules and protects and deals with HIS household. But He never kicks any child out!
He has never lost even one of HIS family ever . if satan could taske even one of GODS children, that would make the Father a failure . He could not even keep HIS own body !
HE does NOT lose Any!
The angels and many other beings , He has made are watching HIM.
There is much more at stake than just mankind?
He must appear the victory in every way to all of HEAVEN. Which of course HE is! We need to understand beyond this world. We need to understand how Heaven looks at these things. Then we will understand Why, HE must Always win at everything He Does!
We are watched always from heaven by many!
Not only how we handle life, But what HE does in our lives!
There is a two fold reason why they all want to watch us?
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
We affect the heavens and of course HIS KINGDOM!
This just shows we are having an affect on even Heaven!
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
We tend to be self centered thinking we are the only thing at stake or that matters. This is untrue!
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
EVERYTHING has a Spiritual meaning first! then we see the results in our flesh and the earth!
it takes place in our heart first [spirit] salvation is of our spirit , then we see the change in the outward life of the person. As with All spiritual gifts , the gift is in the spirit, which we do not see, but we will see the results in that persons life after they get it , if they are willing?
HOW WONDERFUL OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IS!
We are SO blessed to belong to HIM!
We never need fear again!
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
We are SO blessed to belong to HIM!
We never need fear again!
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
faithworks
Member
I believe we can lose our salvation. We can get saved and then live like we want too. It's God's way or the highway I was once told by a dear saint. Because for many years I did it my way and it didn't work. Then I surrended to God everything and it is His way now...
Also do not believe in being backslidden state either. You are either serving the one true Living God or you are not. There is no grey area in this matter..
Lord Bless all,
debbi
ps. I do not agrue this because time is growing short for all so I just tell all believers to get as close as you can to the Lord and His Holy word...
Also do not believe in being backslidden state either. You are either serving the one true Living God or you are not. There is no grey area in this matter..
Lord Bless all,
debbi
ps. I do not agrue this because time is growing short for all so I just tell all believers to get as close as you can to the Lord and His Holy word...
rizen1
Active
I have a serious problem when people put John Calvin and Jacob Arminius above Jesus.
John 10:4-5
4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
And when he brings out his own sheep
Jesus Died on the cross so we can be free from depression, pornagraphy, fornication and all addcitions. He saved us.
He goes before them
though we walk through the valley of shadow of death, His Holy Spirit leads us, guiding us through our trails and tribulations. Through our temptations so we can obtain victory.
and the sheep follow him
No longer a slave to death and sin, we are a knew creation, transformed into his light. The world behind us the cross before us..no turning back.
for they know his voice
My sheep hear my voice , and I know them and they follow me John 10:27
yet they will no means follow a stranger
We have Calvin and Ariminus, it doesnt matter which side of the fence you're on the Shepherd already know his sheep.
but they will flee from him
We can follow men who died and passed away, or choose the one who gave us salvation. If you walk according to his word, you wouldnt need a secuirity blanket to fall on.
for they do not know the voice of strangers
lets not focus on what Calvin and Ariminus had to say. But search ourselves and make sure we are right with God. Make him center of your life. There's no middle ground , your either on fire for God or not.
Salvation is free for everyone.
This walk is not easy expect to fall 7 times 7 times, just remember to get back up.
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THAT is the point. We GIVE ourselves to him. He does not lose HIS sheep. if one goes away? He goes and gets it.
You know losing salvation makes the LORD look weak, as if HE could not keep HIS flock? As if HE is NOT the good Shepherd!
As if any could take from HIM!
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
HE KEEPS us we do not , nor could we keep ourselves!
living in this type fear is bondage!
Having Faith in HIm, if FREEDOM!
of course any can believe as they will???
You know losing salvation makes the LORD look weak, as if HE could not keep HIS flock? As if HE is NOT the good Shepherd!
As if any could take from HIM!
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
HE KEEPS us we do not , nor could we keep ourselves!
living in this type fear is bondage!
Having Faith in HIm, if FREEDOM!
of course any can believe as they will???
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