666

[B-A-C]

The number 666 only appears a few places in the Bible.

1Kings 10:14; Now the weight of gold which came in to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold,
2Chron 9:13; Now the weight of gold which came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold,
Ezra 2:13; the sons of Adonikam, 666;

The verse that causes a lot of concern is...

Rev 13:16; And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17; and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18; Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

ἑξακόσιοι
hexakosioi
hex-ak-os'-ee-oy
Plural ordinal from G1803 and G1540; six hundred: - six hundred.

ἑξήκοντα
hexēkonta
hex-ay'-kon-tah
The tenth multiple of G1803; sixty: - sixty [-fold], threescore.

hex
hex
A primary numeral; six: - six.

Rev 13:18; ῟Ωδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου· ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστί· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξς᾿.

As far as I can tell, the King James, Geneva and Bishops are the only translations that word it differently.

(KJV) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 13:18
(AMPC) Here is [room for] discernment [a call for the wisdom of interpretation]. Let anyone who has intelligence (penetration and insight enough) calculate the number of the beast, for it is a human number [the number of a certain man]; his number is 666.
(ASV) Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six.
(BBE) Here is wisdom. He who has knowledge let him get the number of the beast; because it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty-six.
(Bishops) Here is wisdome. Let hym that hath witte, count ye number of the beast: For it is the number of a man, & his number is sixe hundred threescore and sixe.
(BSB) Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666.
(CSB) This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a person. Its number is 666.
(ESV) This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
(Geneva) Here is wisdome. Let him that hath wit, count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man, and his number is sixe hundreth threescore and sixe.
(GNB) This calls for wisdom. Whoever is intelligent can figure out the meaning of the number of the beast, because the number stands for the name of someone. Its number is 666.
(Greek NT) ῟Ωδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου· ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστί· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ χξς᾿.
(GW) In this situation wisdom is needed. Let the person who has insight figure out the number of the beast, because it is a human number. The beast’s number is 666.
(HCSB) Here is wisdom: The one who has understanding must calculate the number of the beast, because it is the number of a man. His number is 666.
(KJV) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
(MKJV) Here is the wisdom. Let him having reason count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. And its number is six hundred and sixty-six.
(NAS77) Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
(NAS95) Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
(NIrV) Here is a problem that you have to be wise to figure out. If you can, figure out what the beast's number means. It is man's number. His number is 666.
(NIV) This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
(NKJV) Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
(NLT) Wisdom is needed here. Let the one with understanding solve the meaning of the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. His number is 666.

There is a lot of discussion about the mark, where it comes from and what it means. I am more concerned about how it applies to peoples lives.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 13:16; And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17; and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18; Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

So it seems there will be a visible mark of some kind. I've heard a lot of speculation of what this might be, but no one really knows for sure ( except God ).
You can get it either on your right hand, or your forehead. I notice all scriptures about this specify right hand, no mention of getting it on your left hand.
.. or your forehead. Rev 13:17 says no one can buy or sell anything unless you have the mark.

If Christians are still here during this time... how will they buy food? Make car payments, house payments or even pay rent?

I've heard things like this will be a microchip, or an RFID tattoo, but it could simply be an ink tattoo I don't know.
But it doesn't seem no one will get this by accident, it will be a conscious choice that everyone makes individually.

I admit, it does make me a little leery of cell phone apps, and tap to pay credit cards. Perhaps this "mark" of 666, will have more than a number in it, I don't know.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

It seems taking this mark is an unforgivable sin. Once you take it, there is no hope, no redemption and no forgiveness.

 

[Rhema]

The number 666 only appears a few places in the Bible.

It's the wrong number.

Any Bible Scholar worth his salt will let you know the true number in the book of Revelation is 616.

(And that includes Daniel Wallace of Dallas Theological Seminary.)

Rhema

I guess I should point out that the Apostle Thomas would not permit this book in the canon of his Church of the East.

(Even Eusebius wrote that it was disputed in the West.)

 

[Brad Huber]

Matt 10:9-15
9 Do not acquire gold, or silver, or copper for your money belts, 10 or a bag for your journey, or even two coats, or sandals, or a staff; for the worker is worthy of his support. 11 And whatever city or village you enter, inquire who is worthy in it, and stay at his house until you leave that city. 12 As you enter the house, give it your greeting. 13 If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. 14 Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.

When the time comes that you cannot buy or sell without the mark, if you have faith, the Lord can do this for you. But you must be His witness, for their will be great hunger for the word of the Lord, but most will be too afraid to speak up.

 

[B-A-C]

It's the wrong number.

Any Bible Scholar worth his salt will let you know the true number in the book of Revelation is 616.

I've heard all this a number a times, and yet as someone who has attended 3 bible colleges, no one "worth his salt" agrees with this.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

it may be more beneficial to discuss the 'mark of the beast' in relation to this topic.

Unless there is specific reason otherwise, if the number be 616, 666 or 626, etc, does that change the whole 'picture' we have before us?

Post in peace


Bless you all ....><>

 

[Hekuran]

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

John, who wrote the Book of Revelation, expected readers with wisdom or insight to be able to interpret the number. This excludes things known to us but not to them, things such as currency alorithms, microchips or Jared Kushner's properties. No-one in the first century could possibly have the insight to forsee these things.

The numerical value of "Caesar Nero" adds up to either 616 or 666 depending on spelling.

It's likely Revelation was written 30 years or so after Nero committed suicide. So the name is being used to indicate monstrous corrosive and coersive power. Much as today we use Hitler seven decades after his death as a reprensation of total human evil.

 

[B-A-C]

The numerical value of "Caesar Nero" adds up to either 616 or 666 depending on spelling.

Of course Nero wasn't the Cesar when Jerusalem was sacked in 70ad. But I have seen similar values for other names through the years.
Bill Gates III in ascii values = 666, Adolph Hitler ( who mentioned ) also equals 666 in semaphore values.

Unless there is specific reason otherwise, if the number be 616, 666 or 626, etc, does that change the whole 'picture' we have before us?

If the number doesn't matter, any number will do. If the Bible doesn't tell us, we can make up any number.

 

[Rhema]

I've heard all this a number a times, and yet as someone who has attended 3 bible colleges, no one "worth his salt" agrees with this.

Then you go tell Dr. Daniel Wallace of Dallas Theological Seminary that he isn't "worth his salt."
It might be fun to watch.
(But it wouldn't really be a contest.)

Rhema

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

You all realize, of course, that 666 or any other number is just a number....don't you? That is not the mark of the beast...The mark will be a tattoo, a chip, or the like that will make you known to the man of sin....to the beast. Everything is being computerized to the point that people are already putting chips into their hands. All they have to do is wave their hands over the reader and they've made their purchase...And are tracked

 

[Rhema]

Unless there is specific reason otherwise, if the number be 616, 666 or 626, etc, does that change the whole 'picture' we have before us?

To some extent yes, Br. Bear.

For decades I have watched what people do with this book of "Revelation." Attended about a dozen "Prophecy Conferences" and watched all the predictions and "insights" and "secrets" all fail. (Does God's word fail?) Dare I even say Harold Camping? The Millerites and the Great Disappointment? The constant irrational polemic against Catholics? The Late Great Planet Earth fiction? (Waco Texas and the Branch Davidians?)

At some point one must admit that No Good Fruit has ever come out of this book. Period. (Or you could clue me in...)

It was rejected as canon by the Church of the East (founded by the Apostle Thomas).

It was listed by Eusebius (265-340AD) as "Among the spurious books" including the "Apocalypse of Peter; ... Epistle of Barnabas, and the Teachings of the Apostles" (cf. Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, in. xxv. I-7.).

It was rejected by Cyril of Jerusalem, c. 350 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon Approved at the Synod of Laodicea circa 363 AD.

It was not in a list of approved books from anyone of note until 367 AD, placed there at the sole discretion of one Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, (go look him up).

It was rejected by the 'Apostolic Canons' c. 380 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon of Gregory of Nazianzus (329-389 AD)

It was rejected by the Canon of Amphilochuis of Iconum (d. after 394 AD), saying, "Some approve, but the most say it is spurious, "

It was not accepted as canon by any council until the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa, 393 AD, as approved by the Third Synod of Carthace in 397 AD.

I just cannot see how believers, looking at the world around us, could justify the waste of any time with this book of science fiction.

But who am I to argue with three bible colleges?

Post in peace

I've presented facts, brother.

Rhema

 

[Hekuran]

To some extent yes, Br. Bear.

For decades I have watched what people do with this book of "Revelation." Attended about a dozen "Prophecy Conferences" and watched all the predictions and "insights" and "secrets" all fail. (Does God's word fail?) Dare I even say Harold Camping? The Millerites and the Great Disappointment? The constant irrational polemic against Catholics? The Late Great Planet Earth fiction? (Waco Texas and the Branch Davidians?)

At some point one must admit that No Good Fruit has ever come out of this book. Period. (Or you could clue me in...)

It was rejected as canon by the Church of the East (founded by the Apostle Thomas).

It was listed by Eusebius (265-340AD) as "Among the spurious books" including the "Apocalypse of Peter; ... Epistle of Barnabas, and the Teachings of the Apostles" (cf. Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, in. xxv. I-7.).

It was rejected by Cyril of Jerusalem, c. 350 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon Approved at the Synod of Laodicea circa 363 AD.

It was not in a list of approved books from anyone of note until 367 AD, placed there at the sole discretion of one Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, (go look him up).

It was rejected by the 'Apostolic Canons' c. 380 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon of Gregory of Nazianzus (329-389 AD)

It was rejected by the Canon of Amphilochuis of Iconum (d. after 394 AD), saying, "Some approve, but the most say it is spurious, "

It was not accepted as canon by any council until the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa, 393 AD, as approved by the Third Synod of Carthace in 397 AD.

I just cannot see how believers, looking at the world around us, could justify the waste of any time with this book of science fiction.

But who am I to argue with three bible colleges?


I've presented facts, brother.

Rhema

@Rhema you've named a lot of nonsense that has been generated from people doing silly things with the book of Revelation. I could easily add some to the list.

I don't have much to offer on the councils that agreed the canon of the Bible. But I can say why, despite all the wild and speculative interpretations, I appreciate it.

• It concludes the story of the Bible. We begin with a good garden in Genesis and conclude with the holy God completes what he begins.

• It describes perfectly the corrupting and exploitative powers that dominates the world

• It shows equally clearly how the sacrificial, loving way of the Lamb conquers the dragon.

• We have the clearest vision of our future hope in the age to come

• It gives us the motivation to persevere in our faith, not to be led into compromise with the way of the world.

Some good fruit has come from it ... It has inspired and strengthened my faith.

 

[Hekuran]

Bill Gates III in ascii values = 666

For a person with wisdom and insight living in Sardis at the end of the first century to calculate this, they'd need to predict the English alpabet, the birth of William Henry Gates III, know that "Bill" is short for "William" and invent ASCII a couple of thousand years before anyone else. Quite a tall order, no?

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

 

[Rhema]

It concludes the story of the Bible.

Literary proclivities are not sufficient reasons. The Bible is not a fictional play to need an ending. ( Is it?) So... you're "happy(?)" that God had no conclusion for Four Hundred Years? !! Why should it take that long?

And it was just a mere 500 years ago, that the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented by Martin Luther as a replacement for the Ecclesiastical Authority of the Pope, although up until the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the Church had placed Ecclesiastical Authority into a convocation of Bishops (cf. Council of Nicaea; Acts 15, etc.). (And just to say, I don't believe either view of Ecclesiastical Authority to be correct.) And then, when Martin Luther decided to replace the Authority of the Church Fathers with scripture, even he wanted to remove the book of Revelation (as well as James), but realized he'd be undermining his own "Sola Scriptura" thing if he did so, turning himself into a Pope.

Luther wrote the German Bible to prove that he was right, not for anyone else to make up their own unfounded views. Luther just could not fathom that anybody else could read the exact same passage and arrive at a different conclusion than he did. His cursing fits against such were appalling.

That said, I think the conclusion of the Bible is pretty spot on, if one truly needs a conclusion - and here it is:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

Amen.... Y'all just need to put the books in the right order.

It describes perfectly the corrupting and exploitative powers that dominates the world

As does the crucifixion of Jesus, not to mention His own teachings.

But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them. It will not be so among you; but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you must be your slave;​

(Matthew 20:25-27 NRSV)​

But be not ye called Pastor: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.​

(Matthew 23:8-11 KJV~)​

Why wouldn't that be sufficient?

And yet, with regards to "powers that dominate the world," don't you believe this passage?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power / authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV~)​

So what is the Apocalypse of John if not a testimony against Matthew? ( I think I'll stick with Matthew...)

It shows equally clearly how the sacrificial, loving way of the Lamb conquers the dragon.

We shall need to disagree on this. Jesus, ... Jesus Himself ... never presented Himself as a Lamb.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.​

(John 10:11 KJV)​

Shepherd... lamb... which one? Both? How wonderfully confusing. (And that's a very good reason to reject Revelation.)

We have the clearest vision of our future hope in the age to come

I'm sorry, say what? Am I now to believe that you really think the poetic imagery and metaphors in the Apocalypse of John are literal truth?

... well ... okay ... but ... c'mon... stop funnin' me... you really think there is a literal dragon, and a literal woman having "two wings of a great eagle"?

If the book was "clear" there wouldn't be all this interpretive nonsense, now, would there be.

It gives us the motivation to persevere in our faith, not to be led into compromise with the way of the world.

So then Jesus' instructions aren't good enough to motivate you?

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.​

(Matthew 10:22 KJV)

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
(Mark 8:34-38 KJV)​

I am speechless that anyone would need something more.

Some good fruit has come from it ... It has inspired and strengthened my faith.

And Star Trek has inspired many to boldly go where no man has gone before... (But it still isn't real.)

Rhema

I appreciate it.

As many appreciate Harry Potter, even though it's a cheap knock off of Star Wars....

 

[Garee]

To some extent yes, Br. Bear.

For decades I have watched what people do with this book of "Revelation." Attended about a dozen "Prophecy Conferences" and watched all the predictions and "insights" and "secrets" all fail. (Does God's word fail?) Dare I even say Harold Camping? The Millerites and the Great Disappointment? The constant irrational polemic against Catholics? The Late Great Planet Earth fiction? (Waco Texas and the Branch Davidians?)

At some point one must admit that No Good Fruit has ever come out of this book. Period. (Or you could clue me in...)

It was rejected as canon by the Church of the East (founded by the Apostle Thomas).

It was listed by Eusebius (265-340AD) as "Among the spurious books" including the "Apocalypse of Peter; ... Epistle of Barnabas, and the Teachings of the Apostles" (cf. Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, in. xxv. I-7.).

It was rejected by Cyril of Jerusalem, c. 350 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon Approved at the Synod of Laodicea circa 363 AD.

It was not in a list of approved books from anyone of note until 367 AD, placed there at the sole discretion of one Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, (go look him up).

It was rejected by the 'Apostolic Canons' c. 380 AD.

It was rejected by the Canon of Gregory of Nazianzus (329-389 AD)

It was rejected by the Canon of Amphilochuis of Iconum (d. after 394 AD), saying, "Some approve, but the most say it is spurious, "

It was not accepted as canon by any council until the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa, 393 AD, as approved by the Third Synod of Carthace in 397 AD.

I just cannot see how believers, looking at the world around us, could justify the waste of any time with this book of science fiction.

But who am I to argue with three bible colleges?


I've presented facts, brother.

Rhema

The last chapter of the book of prophecy is Revelation, in its introduction it is presented as a signified tongue called hidden manna in chapter 2.

Revelation King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signify using the temporal things seen to give the unseen gospel understanding.The language of a parable, which without Christ spoke not beginning in Genesis. . In that way we surely do not literalize the chapter rather than using the metaphors to rightly divide.

To begin with Jesus had already declared the words of our father . "It's a evil generation that looks signs in a hope they will turn into substance. no literal signs were given other than the fulfilled sign of Jonas (three days and nights of sufferings.)

Many are hoping a person would not be able to function (food shelter)without some sort of literal sign a tattoo or chip etc as antichrists' many have been attributed that tittle. Hitler, Pope etc

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The buying and selling has to do with the gospel truth we are to buy it and not sell it as if it offered no understanding of the one author and finisher of our new born again faith the true gospel riches.

Proverbs 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

Revelation the last chapter of the book of prophecy reveals the mystery it does not provide another that one must wonder after.. John who received the clear revelation knew the mark had to do with the fall and the number of man separated from God whois not a man .

Just as the word holy, holy, holy is used three times to denote the end of a matter that same applies 666 or when dividing it is used as 2/3 . and 1/3 to represent the bride the church.

The mark is clearly those who oppose prophecy

Whatsoever God says becomes true as His prophecy. "Let there be" and "it was good." the law of faith.

Cain who in effect sold the first born rites seeing no value in the unseen things of God and silenced the gospel buried born again Abel under .(out of sight out of mind pagan foundation) like Esau who sold his birthright for a cup of hairy goat soup .They should of bought the truth and not sold it. By the mark of the words of God Cain became a suffering wonderer all the days of his life always looking over his shoulder. no rest, not yoked with Christ, as was Abel. God replaced the second born (Able) with Seth.

Genesis 4 :25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Cain trying to bargain with the Holy Spirit hoping to die.. It would seem he received the mark of a lifer no light of day.

Genesis2: 13-15 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

666 Non redeemed What Christ says comes to pass. Christ the redeeming Spirit of God or anointing Spirit.

 

[Garee]

But be not ye called Pastor: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.(Matthew 23:8-11 KJV~)
Why wouldn't that be sufficient?

And yet, with regards to "powers that dominate the world," don't you believe this passage?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power / authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.(Matthew 28:18 KJV~)
So what is the Apocalypse of John if not a testimony against Matthew? ( I think I'll stick with Matthew...)

They would seem to support each other . The word master or Rabbi represents our one unseen Holy Father the Spirit of the Lord (God) of lords (men) or you could say the Father of fathers in that way call no man seen father on earth. One is our good Father in heaven

On one occasion one came a kneeled in veneration and prayed , how to gain eternal life. jesus refused to stand in the place of our unseen Holy Father and gave glory to the Lord the one good teaching master.

Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them. And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?1 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

In that way as messengers of God apostles we can plant the incorruptible born again seed and another water it with the water of the word (Doctrines that fall like rain ).But unless God give the power to both believe and desire to do the will there can be no action as a work .

We can preach he does the teaching that can cause growth . again we can teach how we are to hear and seek the approval But he does the connecting,

Venerating the apostles rather than the power of the gospel that works in them is of the wiles of the evil one.The father of lies drawing mankind to look after the flesh and not the work as the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:3-9 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

They would seem to support each other all power was given from the father nothing came from the son of man jesus . the same power that works in us not of us .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Begins with God ends with the power of God. The gospel of faith the power of love. .Let it be. . . the good things came.

 

[Rhema]

@Garee ...

No thanks.

 

[B-A-C]

For a person with wisdom and insight living in Sardis at the end of the first century to calculate this, they'd need to predict the English alpabet, the birth of William Henry Gates III, know that "Bill" is short for "William" and invent ASCII a couple of thousand years before anyone else. Quite a tall order, no?

I didn't say I agreed with this, I was just making the point that there are many theories, and one is valid as another.

On the other hand, If all scripture truly is inspired by God, and God knows the future, and all languages, then He even knew about ASCII values before the world was made....

But I don't think anyone knows who this person is just yet.

2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

 

[Hekuran]

Literary proclivities are not sufficient reasons. The Bible is not a fictional play to need an ending. ( Is it?) So... you're "happy(?)" that God had no conclusion for Four Hundred Years? !! Why should it take that long?

And it was just a mere 500 years ago, that the Doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented by Martin Luther as a replacement for the Ecclesiastical Authority of the Pope, although up until the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the Church had placed Ecclesiastical Authority into a convocation of Bishops (cf. Council of Nicaea; Acts 15, etc.). (And just to say, I don't believe either view of Ecclesiastical Authority to be correct.) And then, when Martin Luther decided to replace the Authority of the Church Fathers with scripture, even he wanted to remove the book of Revelation (as well as James), but realized he'd be undermining his own "Sola Scriptura" thing if he did so, turning himself into a Pope.

Luther wrote the German Bible to prove that he was right, not for anyone else to make up their own unfounded views. Luther just could not fathom that anybody else could read the exact same passage and arrive at a different conclusion than he did. His cursing fits against such were appalling.

That said, I think the conclusion of the Bible is pretty spot on, if one truly needs a conclusion - and here it is:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

Amen.... Y'all just need to put the books in the right order.


As does the crucifixion of Jesus, not to mention His own teachings.

But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them. It will not be so among you; but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you must be your slave;​

(Matthew 20:25-27 NRSV)​

But be not ye called Pastor: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.​

(Matthew 23:8-11 KJV~)​

Why wouldn't that be sufficient?

And yet, with regards to "powers that dominate the world," don't you believe this passage?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power / authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV~)​

So what is the Apocalypse of John if not a testimony against Matthew? ( I think I'll stick with Matthew...)


We shall need to disagree on this. Jesus, ... Jesus Himself ... never presented Himself as a Lamb.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.​

(John 10:11 KJV)​

Shepherd... lamb... which one? Both? How wonderfully confusing. (And that's a very good reason to reject Revelation.)


I'm sorry, say what? Am I now to believe that you really think the poetic imagery and metaphors in the Apocalypse of John are literal truth?

... well ... okay ... but ... c'mon... stop funnin' me... you really think there is a literal dragon, and a literal woman having "two wings of a great eagle"?

If the book was "clear" there wouldn't be all this interpretive nonsense, now, would there be.


So then Jesus' instructions aren't good enough to motivate you?

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.​

(Matthew 10:22 KJV)

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
(Mark 8:34-38 KJV)​

I am speechless that anyone would need something more.


And Star Trek has inspired many to boldly go where no man has gone before... (But it still isn't real.)

Rhema


As many appreciate Harry Potter, even though it's a cheap knock off of Star Wars....

I was wanting to add to the conversation about the Book of Revelation. I have no need to enter or to win a debate on it.