KingJ
Loyal
Are you reading what you are typing?
These two statements are in complete contrast with each other.
An hour then your thoughts
- Thread starter Jesus_is_LORD
- Start date
These two statements are in complete contrast with each other.
@King J. -- Our free will AND God's omniscience. As has just been stated -- God already knew / already Knows -- the choices 'we' will be making. He knows Everything. In Our 'world' we are making decisions all the time -- from are we going to brush our teeth - to what college I'll be going to -- who I'm going to date. I do not have the knowledge Prior to making my choice as to the outcome. God Already does.
Of course I'm reading what I'm writing.
The two comments are in contrast to each other, Yes, But Still Very true.
Of course I'm reading what I'm writing.
The two comments are in contrast to each other, Yes, But Still Very true.
You want me to re-read Your post -- I included Your post in my question when I asked it.
So -- please answer my question.
B-A-C
Loyal
I don't see them in contrast at all. Just because you know somebody is going to do something before they do it, doesn't
mean you made the choice for them to do it. It just means you "knew" they were going to do it.
You might persuade them not to do it, you might try to talk them out of doing it, but in many cases you don't stop them
from doing it. We live in a country where we have freedom of speech, but we don't tell people what to say or not say.
(Although that is changing quickly).
mean you made the choice for them to do it. It just means you "knew" they were going to do it.
You might persuade them not to do it, you might try to talk them out of doing it, but in many cases you don't stop them
from doing it. We live in a country where we have freedom of speech, but we don't tell people what to say or not say.
(Although that is changing quickly).
Curtis
Loyal
The "Garden of Eden", and "Eden the garden of God" are not the same place. Show me were in scripture that Lucifer ruled on earth, which he did, but were is it accounted for in the book of Geneses?
Curtis
Loyal
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives in me; and the life which I now live in the body I live through faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself up to death on my behalf.
KingJ
Loyal
Lucifer was the light bearer in the garden of Eden. He did not rule.
KingJ
Loyal
The 'no longer I that live' speaks to the old 'I'.
Christ lives in ''me''. The new 'I'.
God puts you and I with people he believes we can reach for Him, with Him in us.
Curtis
Loyal
Salvation would have been impossible if it was not for God "omniscience". Man is born spiritually dead because of Adam's sin which he brought upon himself, and all of his descendants. The only way a man could be found "in Christ" is he had have been placed in him (Christ) before the world began!!! That requires God to have "known before hand" what every man's decision would have been after hearing the Gospel message of his salvation. We find that truth here...
2Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
My salvation nor anyone else, did not happen on specif date in history, it happened before the world began, because the Lord God knew before he created the earth, even before the first man was ever formed, what I would chose after I heard the Gospel.
Jesus came to the earth carrying his seed within himself which was his descendants, his Church. Man is saved in exactly the same way man became a sinner in Adam. This is why Jesus is known as the "last Adam"
We died in the first Adam, we became alive in the last Adam. If there was no "omniscience" on God's part then man would never have a choice whom he will serve, and salvation would have been impossible!!!
Curtis
Loyal
Lucifer in the garden of Eden was the "serpent" not the light bearer. He was already a fallen angel when Adam was tempted.
KingJ
Loyal
The ''you' and ''them'' in your post are humans.
God, the Creator of all, is not a human. He created every cell and knows every hair on our head.
We need to focus discussion on Him making from a lump of clay, vessels unto:
1. Dishonor
2. Honor
3. Dishonor or Honor
Where do you stand? If point three. How do you explain it? Your post does not explain anything, no offence :wink:. Think ''God the Creator''.
KingJ
Loyal
I don't agree. Isaiah 14:13 says he wanted to ascend to heaven and rule. This speaks to him being on earth before he sinned.
Why do you believe 'Eden, the garden of God' and 'the garden of Eden' are not the same place? Ezekiel 28:13
KingJ
Loyal
Nothing but an assumption from you that conflicts with more scripture then it agrees with.
1 Tim 2:4 God desires all to be saved.
How do you know God will not have empty rooms in heaven with the names of those who chose hell?
You did not underline the most important part of that passage ''according to his own purpose''.
You '''assume'' His purpose is to create vessels unto dishonor and vessels unto honor. Based of your full evaluation of God ending with the dictionary definitions of omnipotence, Creator and omniscience.
When scripture says / points repeatedly to God's purpose being to uphold what is good and righteous. To be impartial. To offer Jesus to the whomsoever will accept Him.
The ''whomsoever'' is planned in Christ before the world began.
Curtis
Loyal
Even their names give you a clue that they are not the same place, "garden of God", vs "garden of Eden"
KingJ
Loyal
So, you believe God made you from a lump of clay unto honor.
I guess it is just bad luck for all those going to hell.
Curtis
Loyal
Impossible as God does not make "estimates" he knows all things.
KingJ
Loyal
Not really. I would think a place called Eden, that is a garden where God resides, be able to be called both.
Why do you say ''garden of God''. The scripture I gave said 'Eden, the garden of God'.
Do you have any other support for them being unrelated?
Curtis
Loyal
All men are born as vessels of "dishonor". If a man wants to be a vessel of "honor" then he must "depart" from "iniquity"
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
KingJ
Loyal
Like I have said repeatedly. You have put God in your own box. You are miss representing Him.
He knows all things and is good at the same time = best explained as Him limiting His omniscience. The spiritual explanation would probably be more along the lines of Him being who He is. Who He is, is not someone that can do evil (1 John 1:5). So creating or knowing something being evil, is not in Him / not something that can be done or known. So, it does not hinder His ''all knowing'' position, just our dictionary definition / box we place Him in.