Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?

[Brother-Paul]

Mass - in my opinion the biggest on-going sin of the RCC.

Probably 90% of Protestant denominations do not have priests. (We are called 'protestants, because we are "protest"ing the RCC church)
Anglicans, Episcopalians, and some Lutheran (ELCA) churches still have priests. (Many Protestant churches do not recognize these churches as "Protestant" for this very reason).
The purpose of a priest in the OT ... you confessed your sins to a priest (the common people in the OT could not talk directly to God) He decided what the cost of your sin was
and sacrificed an animal accordingly. (small sin = small sacrifice, big sin = big sacrifice). Being a priest was a bloody job. The RCC still has confession booths,
apparently you can't confess to Jesus directly.

In Mass (unlike Protestant communion) a priest has to perform the ceremony. They believe in something called "transubstantiation". The bread or cracker actually becomes the body
of Christ (not just a symbol) and the juice or wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus (not just a symbol).

In effect they are re-crucifying Jesus during every Mass.

I agree brother and I am glad you raised the point of 'mass' where they actually believe they are eating the Body of Christ and drinking His Blood!!!

I am not sure I agree fully with your first statement brother, the part in brackets in particular. When I came to Christ I went to a protestant church for seven years, the more I learnt scripture, I was exceptionally thirsty and hungry for The Word, the more I came across errors and concerns. One I mentioned earlier was the Creed, including 'holy catholic and Apostolic Church'. I could not say and didn't say that part, I would always skip the word roman catholic. I was later told it is just a universal statement, universal to me it was liberalising The Word, accepting RCC errors week after week after week.

Since we moved back south a dear friend, a brother for 30 years, wanted me to go to the protestant church he attends, I am told, lovely chap, you'll like him. I am sure I would, so I raised a few issues with my friend, who sees nothing untoward with the RCC, I mentioned the Creed and the inclusion of the catholic church, he didn't see anything wrong in it, but did raise it with his vicar, the vicars reply it is a universal comment that includes the universal church of Jesus Christ.

Now I accept the universal church of our Lord Jesus Christ, born again believers worldwide, I accept we are to love one another as Christ loves us, saved or lost souls worldwide, denominations do not come into it, denominations are man made. In all things whether it is denominational differences, saved or lost, ANY FORM OF SIN, we are to love the person, love the people, but not accept the sin. Nor are we to accept The Word that has been changed.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[KingJ]

The first part of your comment was regarding the papacy -- that just because it wasn't part of Paul's vision -- is it Wrong. It's not Biblical. The papacy is not in Bible -- therefore .......

I think you missed my point. There are many things added to the church today that were not present in Paul's day. We are to discern all things according to Paul 1 Cor 2:15. To ask if something is wicked or not is valid. To merely state it is not 'biblical' is not grounds to condemn someone.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The RCC also pray for salvation of those that have died the first death. They may not be the only ones.

We all get the same chance, to come to God through Jesus and be saved, or to reject Him and later pay the consequences for that discission.

We can and must pray for their salvation up to first death, beyond that their fate will be known in hades and the final judgement.

 

[KingJ]

The cross is the centre piece in all RCC's but with Jesus still on the cross, usually above the alter, and often 2-3 times larger than a human. I have seen the congregation kneeling staring up at the idol of Jesus, they treat Mary the same way as well as praying through the heart of Mary.

All against scripture.

You can't be guilty of idolatry if Jesus is the idol. There are many paintings of Jesus resurrected too. That most have Him on the cross in front of the church is truly a non-issue.

When we break bread we are to recall what happened to Jesus on the cross. In remembrance of His sacrifice for us. Eat His flesh. Drink of His blood.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I think you missed my point. There are many things added to the church today that were not present in Paul's day. We are to discern all things according to Paul 1 Cor 2:15. To ask if something is wicked or not is valid. To merely state it is not 'biblical' is not grounds to condemn someone.

I would have to agree with your comments this time brother.

All denominations are getting some things wrong! They should all, as we must all recognise our errors, our sins, and repent.

Did the letter to the 7 churches confirm one of them was wholly correct in what they did? No! Therefore neither should any ekkesia today.

You have mentioned certain things before, we all have my friend, one that I keep raising is the importance of looking back to the first church, the apostolic church, in doing so we omit all errors the RCC has brought to the reformation and beyond, we look at us, ourselves and those we fellowship with that are saved, together we should ask, are we really right in our part of the church, the Body of Christ, what differences are there today compared to the first church. Put aside the persecution, look at the early church, why did they have so much power then and churches today do not have?

A good starting point for every part of the ekkesia I thing. But it could be me that is wrong.

 

[KingJ]

ERRORS of the Roman Catholic Church - by Keith Piper

The Roman Catholic Church believes many false doctrines that are contrary to the Bible, and were unknown to the early Church, such as:

1. Human Tradition is Elevated to Or Above the Word of God (1545 AD)
2. Wrong Gospel, Wrong Message of Salvation
3. Confession of Sins to Priest to Obtain Absolution of Sins
4. Penance
5. Priests
6. Celibacy of Priests and Nuns (1079 AD)
7. Confirmation
8. Extreme Unction (526 AD)
9. Infant Baptism (370 AD)
10. Transubstantiation (1215 AD)
11. Adoration of the Host (Wafer Bread) (1220 AD)
12. The Mass (394 AD)
13. Other Mediators Between God and Man
14. Prayers to Saints (375 AD)
15. Purgatory (593 AD)
16. Papal Infallibility (1870 AD)
17. Indulgences (1190 AD)
18. Idolatry = Making Images (786 AD)
19. Mary Veneration (431 AD)
20. Catholic Attitudes to the Bible (1229 AD)
21. Peter as the Rock
22. 15 Apocrypha Books Added to the Old Testament Bible (1546 AD)
23. Names of Blasphemy (350 AD)
24. Rosary Prayer Beads (1090 AD)
25. Low Moral Standards
26. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary
27. Crossing Oneself (300 AD)
28. Was Peter the First Pope?
29. Roman Catholic Lies, Immorality, Corruption
30. The Inquisition, Torture, Massacres, Murders, Wars (1184 AD)
31. 15 Evidences that the Roman Catholic Church is Mystery Babylon the Great, the ***** of Revelation 17
32. Who Gave Us the Bible? God or the Roman Catholic Church?
33. They Turn People Away From Christ to Honor Twelve Other Things

Taken from

https://www.gospeloutreach.net/romanerr1.html

There is a lot more reading on this page, please click the link above to read it all and the in depth explanations.

I thought the mod did not want us to do this. I can easily copy paste links from google debunking these being ''wicked / un'-Christian''.

Which one do you believe is a wicked practice and actually want to address / discuss?

 

[Sue D.]

Sorry Dave, but Catholics have mortal and venial sins correct.

A person truly neutral would interpret ''stone person X to death for he committed sin Y'' and then simply ''excommunicate person W for he only committed sin Z'' as a difference between mortal and venial sins in the OT. I have quoted many NT examples before. The most popular one being reading Matt 5:28 with Matt 5:32. Or just reading 1 John 5:16.

It is a false statement to say or imply that the RCC believes a mortal sinner cannot be saved.

Purgatory is seen in the 'Maccabees'. The Maccabees is also not a bad book to read or include. Unlike something like the account of Judas. The RCC did after all collate the bible as we mostly have it. RCC could argue that Protestants came and cherry picked exclusions.

I was just reading an article about mortal and venial sins -- RCC. And yes, there does seem to be a distinction between a sin leading to death and other sins. Maybe it's more of a warning to 'watch ourselves' -- our daily actions / lives. And what are other people doing in Their lives. When a person allows our eyes to be elsewhere except God's Word -- it's easy to be sidetracked into 'small' sins. We Need to be concerned about other's and ourselves.

There are good reasons why some books are not included in the Canon of Scripture. And the book that we hold with all the books included came about over hundreds of years. A person can 'Google' the criteria for books to be included in the Canon. They are called the Apocraphal books for a reason. And, yes, the RCC insists that They have the right thing with all the books and that 'we' Protestants are simply rebells .

Context of a passage has Always been Most important.

there are Lots of books that are interesting to read -- both fiction and non-fiction. We need to be able to distinguish between the two.

Matthew 5:28 and 5:32 -- okay -- the first specifies even Looking at a woman in a lustful way is committing adultery in his heart. and the other is about divorce and reasons for divorcing. I don't really see your connection between those verses and the subject of mortal / venial sins.

And some would say that using those verses tends to be our way of rationalizing sin. We Do need to be watching our own attitudes towards what we allow in our own lives. The concept of 'compared to Their sin , I'm not so bad Afterall'.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I thought the mod did not want us to do this. I can easily copy paste links from google debunking these being ''wicked / un'-Christian''.

Which one do you believe is a wicked practice and actually want to address / discuss?

If I made an error here on forum rules it was not intentional.

 

[B-A-C]

The RCC also calls Mary the "queen of heaven".

Jer 7:18 ; "The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods in order to spite Me.
Jer 44:17; "But rather we will certainly carry out every word that has proceeded from our mouths, by burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, just as we ourselves, our forefathers, our kings and our princes did in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; for then we had plenty of food and were well off and saw no misfortune.
Jer 44:18; "But since we stopped burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have met our end by the sword and by famine."
Jer 44:19; "And," said the women, "when we were burning sacrifices to the queen of heaven and were pouring out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands that we made for her sacrificial cakes in her image and poured out drink offerings to her?"
Jer 44:25; thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, as follows: 'As for you and your wives, you have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled it with your hands, saying, "We will certainly perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn sacrifices to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her." Go ahead and confirm your vows, and certainly perform your vows!'

The "queen of heaven" is a evil god in Jeremiah. People made "drink offerings" to her. Some scholars use these verses to tie this "Mary/Queen of heaven" spirit to the harlot in Revelation.

Rev 18:7; "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'

 

[KingJ]

The cross is the centre piece in all RCC's but with Jesus still on the cross, usually above the alter, and often 2-3 times larger than a human. I have seen the congregation kneeling staring up at the idol of Jesus, they treat Mary the same way as well as praying through the heart of Mary.

All against scripture.

Idolizing Mary, saints and relics is actually a difficult topic to play devil's advocate on. Dave correctly quoted the amendment to the ten commandments and that kind of silences all defense.

I was at a Catholic meeting for the passing of a family member. I saw people kneeling, praying to Mary and kissing her. Felt wicked to me.

I am not sure if this is a Rom 14:5 difference. It actually doesn't matter I guess as they '''have removed the second commandment''.

 

[B-A-C]

Archbisop of Canterbury appears to say being Gay is Great!!!

It was my understanding the Anglican church as a whole approves of this. As does the United Methodist church and Lutheran ELCA churches here in the US.

 

[Sue D.]

I think you missed my point. There are many things added to the church today that were not present in Paul's day. We are to discern all things according to Paul 1 Cor 2:15. To ask if something is wicked or not is valid. To merely state it is not 'biblical' is not grounds to condemn someone.

The purpose is not to condemn anyone -- it is to present Biblical reasons for what we are doing. Aren't 'we' trying to follow God's Word? Traditions are good / okay -- as long as they are not contracting God's Word. God's Word tells us of God's plan for all of us to have relationship with Him. Not on our terms, but on His.

There were no denominations back in Pauls' time. A person was either a follower of Jesus Christ or they weren't.

 

[B-A-C]

There were no denominations back in Pauls' time. A person was either a follower of Jesus Christ or they weren't.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. Still some "denominations" teach "following Jesus" and some don't.

 

[Brother-Paul]

You can't be guilty of idolatry if Jesus is the idol. There are many paintings of Jesus resurrected too. That most have Him on the cross in front of the church is truly a non-issue.

When we break bread we are to recall what happened to Jesus on the cross. In remembrance of His sacrifice for us. Eat His flesh. Drink of His blood.

Of course they can be guilty of idolatry, it is an image, a model, call it what we may, it is a replica, of Jesus Christ on the cross, (He is Risen!!!) In the western world the this idol is usually fair complexion and blue eyes, western looking.

THE MAIN POINT IS:
It is not Jesus, it is an idol. All who come before such are performing idol worship. I have seen congregations on their knees in RCC staring at the idol, worshipping him.

Idols come in many forms, people worship them without realising. But to put Jesus image on a cross, above an alter, 2-3 time larger than a living human, is wrong, to knee in front with eyes affixed on it, is nothing but idol worship. You can bend it or twist it to try make it acceptable, the catholics do, there is no getting away from what is happening. Just for a minute, look at the bigger picture, Jesus is in Heaven, sat at the right hand of the Father. These people say they worship me but are looking at a man made object, which is an idol.

 

[Br. Bear]

Mass - in my opinion the biggest on-going sin of the RCC.

Greetings,

correct me if i am wrong (i was once before)
Mass is a funeral 'service'

Not sure how that equates to the 'Catholic' (RCC) Mass but it could be sort of appropriate if one is remembering Christ and Him crucified [although i know He has also risen for which i am very glad!]

While we ought to be celebrating, we ought never forget the fact that He died for the sins of the world.

One problem i do have with the 'mass' part is when it is used in the 'celebration' of 'Christmas' , 'mass' being the 'mas' part at the end.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Of course they can be guilty of idolatry, it is an image, a model, call it what we may, it is a replica, of Jesus Christ on the cross, (He is Risen!!!) In the western world the this idol is usually fair complexion and blue eyes, western looking.

THE MAIN POINT IS:
It is not Jesus, it is an idol. All who come before such are performing idol worship. I have seen congregations on their knees in RCC staring at the idol, worshipping him.

Idols come in many forms, people worship them without realising. But to put Jesus image on a cross, above an alter, 2-3 time larger than a living human, is wrong, to knee in front with eyes affixed on it, is nothing but idol worship. You can bend it or twist it to try make it acceptable, the catholics do, there is no getting away from what is happening. Just for a minute, look at the bigger picture, Jesus is in Heaven, sat at the right hand of the Father. These people say they worship me but are looking at a man made object, which is an idol.

true

 

[Brother-Paul]

It was my understanding the Anglican church as a whole approves of this. As does the United Methodist church and Lutheran ELCA churches here in the US.

The Arch Bishop says he feels like a politician, using the 'cop out' rather than being clear on the subject.

He is pressured from gay's in the church, he is pressured as numbers drop, he is pressured as taking drop, he is pressured by the media, he is pressured by his own thoughts, he should be pressured by the Holy Spirit on the Truth in The Word. May be he to is veilled from the Truth through sin.

LINK - What does Justin Welby think about same-sex marriage?

Here is an interview of which was recorded in Anglican Ink

In the interview JW stands for Justin Welby, I add this should anyone think it was referred to others

 

[Br. Bear]

The Arch Bishop says he feels like a politician, using the 'cop out' rather than being clear on the subject.

He is pressured from gay's in the church, he is pressured as numbers drop, he is pressured as taking drop, he is pressured by the media, he is pressured by his own thoughts, he should be pressured by the Holy Spirit on the Truth in The Word. May be he to is veilled from the Truth through sin.

LINK - What does Justin Welby think about same-sex marriage?

Here is an interview of which was recorded in Anglican Ink

In the interview JW stands for Justin Welby, I add this should anyone think it was referred to others

perhaps we ought pray for the man?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

Of course they can be guilty of idolatry, it is an image, a model, call it what we may, it is a replica, of Jesus Christ on the cross, (He is Risen!!!) In the western world the this idol is usually fair complexion and blue eyes, western looking.

THE MAIN POINT IS:
It is not Jesus, it is an idol. All who come before such are performing idol worship. I have seen congregations on their knees in RCC staring at the idol, worshipping him.

Idols come in many forms, people worship them without realising. But to put Jesus image on a cross, above an alter, 2-3 time larger than a living human, is wrong, to knee in front with eyes affixed on it, is nothing but idol worship. You can bend it or twist it to try make it acceptable, the catholics do, there is no getting away from what is happening. Just for a minute, look at the bigger picture, Jesus is in Heaven, sat at the right hand of the Father. These people say they worship me but are looking at a man made object, which is an idol.

I disagree.

If I have a picture of my wife and kiss it, it is not weird. My thoughts are focused on her, not the piece of paper. The picture helps to better visualize her.

It is only a Rom 14:5 disagreement.

 

[Br. Bear]

I disagree.

If I have a picture of my wife and kiss it, it is not weird. My thoughts are focused on her, not the piece of paper. The picture helps to better visualize her.

It is only a Rom 14:5 disagreement.

Greetings KingJ

do you have a picture of Jesus?

Sometimes our reasoning can get in the way.

Grace and Peace to you, Brother


Bless you ....><>