Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?

[Sue D.]

Another practice / teaching of the RCC is that of infant baptism. That it is a sacriment not an ordinance. Apparently it is to safe-guard a baby until they can make a decision for themselves.
But that is not in Scripture. People in Scripture are baptized after they have accepted Christ as their Savior. It is meant to show publically that which has already been believed in their heart. And there is no Scriptural basis for 'holy water'.
Last year or so our pastor was baptizing some young people -- he assured the congregation that the water in the baptistry was the same as they drank or took baths in at home. The water did not become 'holy' because it was in a baptisimal tank in the church.

Some Baptist churches have been having baby dedication times in the church service. The parents bring the baby / infant down front with them along with the Grandparents or other family members -- they promise to help raise that child in Christian love and God's Word so that as that child grows up -- he / she will be able to understand salvation for themselves and accept Christ on their own. They are prayed with and given a Child's Bible.

 

[Br. Bear]

I don't. I should though. He is my first love. I have pictures of my wife and kids (second love).

Greetings again KingJ

I suppose what i meant was that of course you don't have a photo of Jesus or a picture. No body does.
So, using your example, while i understand the sentiment, it is both impossible and it does boil down to some imagined image that one would have to kiss or hug or whatever.


Bless you and your wife ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Hey Bear this makes twice for you :smile: I grew up catholic and it has taken a long time to brake the habit of saying mass that is what it is called when we go to the church building

Mass, the central act of worship of the Roman Catholic Church, which culminates in celebration of the sacrament of the Eucharist. The term mass is derived from the ecclesiastical Latin formula for the dismissal of the congregation: Ite, missa est (“Go, it is the sending [dismissal]”).

hmmmmmm
grrrrrrrr

Thank you Dave.

I think i had a clue about what i was referring to - something about the whole sacrifice and that sort of thing but i shall stand [sit, actually] corrected and expect you to keep a good tally!


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

We should brother.


I also think, especially with the turmoil in the world, we should pray for world leaders, for all in authority.

We should at least pray ISRAEL, I did due to second election this year, again no outright government, they need our prayers.

UK with all the Brexit issues and the EU leaders

USA with all their issues

Then we start and can pray for every country worldwide, the middle East, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, further afield China, Russia, North and south Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, coming back, or going round which ever way we view it, Canada, South Africa, the world is a MESS.

We pray God's will in all these countries, in all the countries in the world, for all in authority, especially ISRAEL, not just because of the elections, but it is God's chosen ground, it is more important here than any other part of the world that God's will be done especially in these final days.

May we all pray as the Holy Spirit guides us, in Jesus Name. Amen

Yes, Greetings Brother-Paul,

I was thinking he was between a rock and a hard place and then realised that he needs to choose the Rock!


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

Yes, Greetings Brother-Paul,

I was thinking he was between a rock and a hard place and then realised that he needs to choose the Rock!


Bless you ....><>

He sure does, providing he knows who is the Rock.

Fear effects us different ways, but a person in authority, who is undecisive, can cause more issues that making the right decision.

The Truth is in The Word, that Truth should be quoted in love, even if the rank and file do not like it. He should know fear comes from the devil.

Stand up, Stand up, for Jesus, he will have said it, prayed it and sung it, but when it came to standing up for Jesus he allowed fear to cloud is decisions, which became none decisions, which in the end allowed the sins of the LGBTQ+, in this case gay vicars and clergy into the chosen leaders of the flocks.

Bless you brother \o/

 

[Brother-Paul]

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

In the RCC's case they just ensure that the ''brother'' is someone who lives an upright life and is beyond reproach. Not a 1 Cor 5:1 type 'brother'.

I think that may be the aim brother.

The RCC can only boast it's number of members by the fact that, when a person marries a RC they have to commit to be a member of the RCC, also when a child is Christened it can only be done if both parents are members of the RCC.

There are more RCC members outside the church than in it, attending christenings, marriages and funerals, some showing faces at midnight mass and Easter.

 

[Dave M]

hmmmmmm
grrrrrrrr

Thank you Dave.

I think i had a clue about what i was referring to - something about the whole sacrifice and that sort of thing but i shall stand [sit, actually] corrected and expect you to keep a good tally!


Bless you ....><>

O I see you meant a funeral now I understand I am slow forgive me, I stand corrected

 

[Br. Bear]

in this case gay vicars and clergy into the chosen leaders of the flocks.

yes, as per many before him.
When i was in Scotland for a season a few years ago a lot of division was caused by the same sorts of decisions.
Folks want to stay faithful to their 'church' be it the flock or the fellow members, but find themselves faced with a decision by the 'higher' authorities and they get torn by such decisions.
It appears that some who lead, overlook the effect their decisions have on the members of the flock.

However, the Lord remains faithful and all those who will follow Him, will.

When the Lord returns, will He find faith in the earth?
Stay true to Him, keep the faith and let your light shine


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

O I see you meant a funeral now I understand I am slow forgive me, I stand corrected

Greetings Dave,

one thing i have noticed that we [people] do, is that we can form opinions and get vocal about matters that, while we think we know about them, we have never experienced and actually known.
A lot of the common talk about and against the 'RCC' is from people like me who have very little idea based on experience. We can often hear what everyone else says over the years, read a bit here and there and get to be 'authorities' in our own minds and thereby keep certain traditional concepts going to the point that others might even think we are authorities on the subject.

Of course there is a place for sound Biblical analysis of any and everything and one does not have to experience something to know it is wrong.

I don't know how many non-RCC folk or how many RCC folk actually study and research on their own about the history of the Church and the East and West etc but i do know that we can often get shooting comments without ever actually looking into it all. And these days there is so much 'out there' and it can get quite mind boggling trying to decipher between what is true and what is another regurgitated line with a bias about it, either for or against. That goes for a lot of Biblical topics and things that concern the Church.

Best thing we can do is to look unto Jesus , the Author and Finisher of our Faith. Humble ourselves before God.

Thank you for sharing from your experience, Dave.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother-Paul]

yes, as per many before him.
When i was in Scotland for a season a few years ago a lot of division was caused by the same sorts of decisions.
Folks want to stay faithful to their 'church' be it the flock or the fellow members, but find themselves faced with a decision by the 'higher' authorities and they get torn by such decisions.
It appears that some who lead, overlook the effect their decisions have on the members of the flock.

However, the Lord remains faithful and all those who will follow Him, will.

When the Lord returns, will He find faith in the earth?
Stay true to Him, keep the faith and let your light shine

Bless you ....><>

There is so much division and it is at all levels.

When I came to faith in the Lord, I went to a brand new church building, kuriakon, I remained there for seven years but was so frustrated with so many things.

The congregation was made up of all age groups, which was good. But the congregation included the elderly that started off in the church hall and everything built up from there, but when the new church building was created, being brand new, nice cushy seats, carpets, etc, it attracted many again this should be good, but then came the split, the old wanted old traditional, the young wanted evangelical. There should have been room for both, it would have been good to have had both, shared and varied, but it became a wedge. Then there was the choir, good singers without doubt, they to had been attracted to this new church building. But the choir thought it was God, almost, if you know what I mean. The choir dictated what hymns and songs were chosen for each week, the choices suited the elderly more than the younger members, another wedge was driven home and the minister went along with the choir and organist, they were good, he didn't want to lose them. Here is another example of the person in authority to shepherd the flock, gave in for the easiest solution, if some sheep were to leave it wouldn't be the choir and organist, it is so easy to let earthly reasons affect a descision.

Then came the ordination of women vicars, the majority went along with it, some couldn't accept it. Another issue was Bible readings, although there was rota drawn up, there were two individuals who had reading guide qualifications, they had a lot of influence also, the wife of the couple had one of those voices that 'get on your nerves', I don't mean this nastily but she had a strange voice and many were not keen when she did the readings, me being very deaf wasn't affected as much as I follow every reading in my Bible, but she did have a 'get on your nerves voice'. Now to make matters worse, she wanted to become a female vicar, and studies and got the qualifications the CofE look for. The vicar know the lady was not liked for her squeaky type voice, some didn't like her full stop, but he held off allowing her to preach, except odd services, until just before he left. That was I believe a cowardly way of dealing with the issue, letting the incoming vicar pick up on the situation.

I bet if you created a new thread of issues in a church/place of worship, you would have more posts than pages in the Bible, every place of worship has its issues, ministers at times not only have to keep the boat afloat, they sometimes have to calm the storms. They don't want to lose any of the sheep, but cannot please everyone. Prayer, Faith, Patience and more are needed to maintain peace.

When the Lord returns, will He find faith in the earth?
Stay true to Him, keep the faith and let your light shine (Let His Light shine from us, where the world around us can see it, high up on a lamp stand)

Amen brother Amen

Bless you. Peace be with you \o/

 

[Sue D.]

Greetings again KingJ

I suppose what i meant was that of course you don't have a photo of Jesus or a picture. No body does.
So, using your example, while i understand the sentiment, it is both impossible and it does boil down to some imagined image that one would have to kiss or hug or whatever.


Bless you and your wife ....><>

It's 1 Peter 1:8 Though having not seen we love and are looking forward to the day when 'we' will see Him. What people Have done is take what the 'average' Jewish man would have looked like back then and tried to figure what Jesus would have Probably looked like, But there's really no 'average' looking man in Any culture. Artistic license.

 

[Sue D.]

Another practice / teaching of the RCC is that of infant baptism. That it is a sacriment not an ordinance. Apparently it is to safe-guard a baby until they can make a decision for themselves.
But that is not in Scripture. People in Scripture are baptized after they have accepted Christ as their Savior. It is meant to show publically that which has already been believed in their heart. And there is no Scriptural basis for 'holy water'.
Last year or so our pastor was baptizing some young people -- he assured the congregation that the water in the baptistry was the same as they drank or took baths in at home. The water did not become 'holy' because it was in a baptisimal tank in the church.

Some Baptist churches have been having baby dedication times in the church service. The parents bring the baby / infant down front with them along with the Grandparents or other family members -- they promise to help raise that child in Christian love and God's Word so that as that child grows up -- he / she will be able to understand salvation for themselves and accept Christ on their own. They are prayed with and given a Child's Bible.

Is anyone still interested?!

 

[Sue D.]

Comments are welcome.

 

[Dave M]

Comments are welcome.

I have a infant baptism certificate, can my parents claim ignorance when they did it?? I don't know, but if it wasn't for them I would never of came to Christ.

Although they were both passed away in 2015 when I made my public baptism, I remember going to my new church then, and it was the first time ever outside a catholic church and all I could do was think about getting baptised

 

[Brother-Paul]

Another practice / teaching of the RCC is that of infant baptism. That it is a sacriment not an ordinance. Apparently it is to safe-guard a baby until they can make a decision for themselves.
But that is not in Scripture. People in Scripture are baptized after they have accepted Christ as their Savior. It is meant to show publically that which has already been believed in their heart. And there is no Scriptural basis for 'holy water'.
Last year or so our pastor was baptizing some young people -- he assured the congregation that the water in the baptistry was the same as they drank or took baths in at home. The water did not become 'holy' because it was in a baptisimal tank in the church.

Some Baptist churches have been having baby dedication times in the church service. The parents bring the baby / infant down front with them along with the Grandparents or other family members -- they promise to help raise that child in Christian love and God's Word so that as that child grows up -- he / she will be able to understand salvation for themselves and accept Christ on their own. They are prayed with and given a Child's Bible.

Many none believers go ahead with christening because they are told they should by parents, one of the parents feels it should be done, or they think they should do it as others have. For me it was my wife who wanted to all those years ago, Church of England also do infant baptisms, except for Baptists and many free churches most others do. I agree the theory is so the child is saved, but it is also introduced to bring families into the Church, increase membership, hoping and praying they will become part of that flock.

For me, having been abused by a vicar in my teens, gone from hate for hate to hate for all he stood for, I had no thoughts at all for the service and couldn't wait to get it over. I was like many none believers, what is all this life stuff, I got a life, so we think, or what is all this being saved, I am not lost, I don't believe in the devil. In fairness many none believers do not believe in the devil, we find out about him when we come to and commit to follow Christ.

So everyone there says their vows, the parents and the God parents, and many giggle in the background. We just read words off a page, they mean nothing, the next time we go to a church is for another Christening, a marriage or death, and they are few and far between now, marriages are anywhere with a licence and crematoriums are used most for deaths.

I would come back to the children christening if I may, does not scripture say 'Blessed are the little children for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. So if that is the case then child christening can only be to try increase church attendance and membership.

It wasn't until I came to Christ, repented and asked Jesus into my heart that I found out about all these other things, I was lost, but didn't think I was, but now am saved. I was blind but wouldn't believe that as I could see (worldly things and ways), but thank the Lord I can now see.

We have to be in the light to understand, if we are in darkness we do not understand the things in the light or the cross, they are folly to us.

Thank God for Jesus. Amen

 

[Sue D.]

@Dave -- your parents were following what the RCC was teaching. No one's fault -- just how it Is / was.

God's Word teaches that a person accepts Christ and then should be baptized by immersion to show others the decision that has already been made in their heart.

And That is what can be confusing -- when raised in a belief system that doesn't follow God's Word or adds to it with man-made traditions -- it can be very confusing.

 

[Sue D.]

Many none believers go ahead with christening because they are told they should by parents, one of the parents feels it should be done, or they think they should do it as others have. For me it was my wife who wanted to all those years ago, Church of England also do infant baptisms, except for Baptists and many free churches most others do. I agree the theory is so the child is saved, but it is also introduced to bring families into the Church, increase membership, hoping and praying they will become part of that flock.

For me, having been abused by a vicar in my teens, gone from hate for hate to hate for all he stood for, I had no thoughts at all for the service and couldn't wait to get it over. I was like many none believers, what is all this life stuff, I got a life, so we think, or what is all this being saved, I am not lost, I don't believe in the devil. In fairness many none believers do not believe in the devil, we find out about him when we come to and commit to follow Christ.

So everyone there says their vows, the parents and the God parents, and many giggle in the background. We just read words off a page, they mean nothing, the next time we go to a church is for another Christening, a marriage or death, and they are few and far between now, marriages are anywhere with a licence and crematoriums are used most for deaths.

I would come back to the children christening if I may, does not scripture say 'Blessed are the little children for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. So if that is the case then child christening can only be to try increase church attendance and membership.

It wasn't until I came to Christ, repented and asked Jesus into my heart that I found out about all these other things, I was lost, but didn't think I was, but now am saved. I was blind but wouldn't believe that as I could see (worldly things and ways), but thank the Lord I can now see.

We have to be in the light to understand, if we are in darkness we do not understand the things in the light or the cross, they are folly to us.

Thank God for Jesus. Amen

Children come to Christ easier because they still have trust / innocence -- and they want to please adults. Which is why it's Also important to make sure a child really does understand -- don't talk For them -- talk To them -- Listen to them -- kids are smart -- Listen to what they are saying.

Half of my husband's in-laws were of the RCC group. When they had their kids -- they were christened / sprinkled -- so when we had Our first child -- they assumed that We were going to follow 'their' tradition and have her sprinkled. We said that no we wouldn't be. Cause Baptist's don't sprinkle -- that we do baptism by immersion.

Having children can change a couples' feelings about lots of things. There's a child's well-being to consider. What are They being taught and Why.

A child-like faith is what an adult 'needs' to come to Christ.

You're right -- there are a lot of good people -- they Don't do terrible things that they would need to be saved because of. And lots of people Don't think about eternity -- Until something happens -- a crisis of some kind shakes them up and they Do start thinking About eternity. God uses all sorts of things to get our attention. But we still to either accept or reject.

 

[Brother-Paul]

So many children are brought up out of the faith, their parent or parents don't believe so the kids are not taught about God, Jesus, The Word or anything else.

I am the one Saved soul in the family, my side, my wife's side, three generations back at least and all living generations. Although my wife is getting close, the spirit I working on her heart, God's speed.

One of our daughters had a really rough time when she married, her husband used to beat her and eventually she was put in a safe house to protect her, she has brought the two children up on her own, really struggling and living off what she got from car boot sales and charity shops. She has done well but, she sent the kids to a Church school, at least they would get some teaching, though what they are thought is more Sunday school stuff. Our grandson went to scouts and did church parades, our granddaughter with guides and also did church parades.

Sound good, maybe, a seed possibly. They go to church for the parades and their mum makes jokes and slags off the church, the kids are influenced by their school mates, I have chatted with them, they both say the same, 'if you believe, I don't'. They follow their mates, kids easily influence each other, especially at school.

We can only pray and believe, have faith that they will come to the Lord, repent and be saved. Prayer, Faith and Patience are all that is needed. God's speed they will be saved.

The world is in such a state now, not just one parent families, but teaching kids it is alright, nothing wrong with having two mummy's or two daddies, in the same house.

 

[Darla 68]

Veneration of Mary

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
---
Amen.

Hail Mary - which really means "praise" Mary - give her veneration.
Mother of God - the way this is worded, it implies that Mary has deity.
pray for us sinners now - implies that Mary is a mediator for us. Not Jesus only. Some RCC churches even call her mediatrix.

==========================================

Many RCC churches have statues of Mary somewhere in or around the church, but often no statue of image of Jesus.
"Most" (not all) RCC churches are named after/for Mary. Within 20 miles of where I live I found the following.
Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception
Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Blessed Pearl of Lima
Our Lady of the Blessed Hope
Our Lady of Fatima
Catholic church of St Anna
There are Also Catholic churches for St Paul, St Francis of Assisi, St Jerome, and St Andrew. But I know of none named
Catholic church of God, Catholic church of Christ the King, or Catholic church of Jesus.

It's almost as if "our" lady is better than your lady (Mary). It seems it's almost a competition of who give Mary the most exalted title.
In RCC theology the immaculate conception is NOT the virgin birth of Jesus. It is the birth of Mary. Somehow this is more immaculate than being conceived by the Holy Spirit.
In RCC theology Mary is not the daughter of Heli, but rather Anna and Joakim. (the Bible does not support this)
In RCC theology Mary is sinless and never sinned. Somehow she was able to break the curse of sin before Jesus was even born. She never needed a Savior.
In RCC theology Mary remain a perpetual virgin, and never had any of other children. Obviously if she is the "mother of God" any other children would have deity also.

In RCC theology "intercessory prayer" means even the dead can intercede and pray for you. In particular 'Mary'.

A common joke in Catholicism is - Mary had a little lamb, His fleece was white as snow, and everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.
This implies that Mary led Jesus around like a puppy on a leash.

The existance of purgatory does not agree with the rest of Scripture -- Scripture teaches that upon death we are either in the presence of the Lord or in Hades waiting for white throne judgement. No middle ground.
Our chances to 'get it right' are Now -- here in this life -- on earth.

Yes, the reality of hell IS eternal -- total separation from God. But we are given God's way to avoid hell -- through His Son, Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me."

You feel that only someone / people who are totally sold out to sin are going to end up in hell. Well -- a person could Also be a really good, morally upright person and Still not accept God's Way of salvation and end up in hell.

Maybe a person Should confront their own sinfulness OR their pretty good life and consider God's gift of salvation -- and Not plan on a temporary 'fix' in purgatory and then a trip to heaven. Because the shock they get when there is no purgatory will be eternal shock and Much worse.

And God's Word assures us that we can't loose our salvation. Because the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell us and won't leave us until we are with Jesus. And that Also means that the Holy Spirit Will give us New desires / we will have inner peace in our hearts.

Sorry Sue

The existance of purgatory does not agree with the rest of Scripture -- Scripture teaches that upon death we are either in the presence of the Lord or in Hades waiting for white throne judgement. No middle ground.
Our chances to 'get it right' are Now -- here in this life -- on earth.

Yes, the reality of hell IS eternal -- total separation from God. But we are given God's way to avoid hell -- through His Son, Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling us that "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me."

You feel that only someone / people who are totally sold out to sin are going to end up in hell. Well -- a person could Also be a really good, morally upright person and Still not accept God's Way of salvation and end up in hell.

Maybe a person Should confront their own sinfulness OR their pretty good life and consider God's gift of salvation -- and Not plan on a temporary 'fix' in purgatory and then a trip to heaven. Because the shock they get when there is no purgatory will be eternal shock and Much worse.

And God's Word assures us that we can't loose our salvation. Because the Holy Spirit comes immediately to indwell us and won't leave us until we are with Jesus. And that Also means that the Holy Spirit Will give us New desires / we will have inner peace in our hearts.

I believe you can lose your salvation, if you turn away from God and decide you don’t need Him. It is our decision to live for God or choose our own path.

 

[Sue D.]

Hi Darla 68 -- You said "Sorry Sue" -- what are you sorry about?

While it Is true that everyone Does choose their own path -- Scripture Does say that once the Holy Spirit comes to indwell a person -- at the moment of their salvation -- He won't leave the person. At times during our lives, we sometimes Do drift away -- maybe even decide that we Don't need Him any more. But He never leaves Us.

And, honestly -- I've not known any believers who've decided that they Don't need God / Jesus Christ any more.

And lots of people Are content in their disbelief which is sad.

since you picked up on B-A-C's Veneration of Mary -- are you by chance RCC?

None of that is in Scripture .