Calvinism?

[Christ4Ever]

C4E...have you studied hermeneutics yet? Hermeneutics does not replace the place of the Holy Spirit in studying the Scriptures, what it does is confirm to us what the Holy Spirit's intended meaning of a verse says. I have heard people say before that they get their interpretation from the Spirit...yet they were deceived (I am not saying you are, I am simply stating some facts on the subject).

As for ANE covenants, this is a HUGE problem in the grass roots level of the church today. We have known about ANE covenants since the late 1890's and much research has gone into codifying exactly what they are and how they affect our understanding of Scripture. In truth - if a person is actually listening to the Holy Spirit when it comes to their interpretations of Scripture, then we find covenant only ratifies what we already know...but sadly, there are more denominations and churches out there today who not only know nothing of covenant and how it affects our interpretations of Scripture, but most denominations REFUSED to acknowledge what ANE covenants tell and show us - for no other reason than their doctrines were demonstrated to be in complete error.

One thing covenant does, just like a modern day contract, it defines and limits our interpretation of Scripture (which is where we get the "Scripture interprets Scripture" principle from), covenant gives boundaries to what we can say a verse means, and certain groups that came out of the Reformation refuse to align their doctrinal statements with the Scriptures, so they refused to incorporate ANE covenants into their hermeneutic. This is really sad, because many people out there, because of these people in control of these denominations, believe they are saved and on their way to heaven, when they have been deceived.

I can give you theological papers to read on the subject if you are really interested in reading up on them, just let me know...

Dear Shaolin,
Yes I've studied hermeneutics, but more cursory then a by rote. Especially since the Holy Spirit opens my understanding to what He will when I ingest Scripture, but can see where it does come in handy. I would say the greatest jewel from it would have been viewing Scripture in Context. Until I learn more of ANE covenants I'm not sure how I'll categorize its usefulness. Not knowing the entirety of it, but seeing the implication that God used it in His Covenants with Israeli, makes me think of the "Cart before the Horse" analogy, or God using what He wills. Anyway, being moved to understanding by the Holy Spirit at times happens when I'm researching something totally unrelated! It's at these times that I find myself jumping up in joy, praising His name! Alleluia!!! Used to make my wife jump, and then I start blabbering about it, but of course I would then I get the fish eye look from her for having made her jump out of her skin!!!

As far as the church I attend and its attention to Covenants. We have a couple of Teachers who provide College level courses on the subject. I haven't taken them, and don't see myself doing so, due to my personal responsibilities whose marriage covenant takes precedence at this time over many other things I would like to do. As the Lord wills.

On individuals being deceived, believing themselves saved who are not. Really not surprising. Matthew 7:22-23 and the rest of the chapter should be an eye opener to every believer, which speaks to the very subject.

Now on the ANE Covenants I've downloaded a pdf on the subject but haven't taken the time to read it yet. So, if you'd like to share some papers with me, no problem. I'll add it to my growing list of things to read.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Now for my other hat!
Dear @PloughBoy & @Shaolin

Time for you two to separate on this. It doesn't require any great in sight on any ones part, to see a storm brewing that bares no good will for two boats heading into its tempestuous waters.

You're both intelligent men, who I believe I don't have to break it any further down for.

Call it a day, and move on! Also, please don't create other threads that are meant to drag one or the other back into a communication that will result in more conflict.
Chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians can be helpful, and has been for me on more then one occasion.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, please behave.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<>

 

[PloughBoy]

Now for my other hat!
Dear @PloughBoy & @Shaolin

Time for you two to separate on this. It doesn't require any great in sight on any ones part, to see a storm brewing that bares no good will for two boats heading into its tempestuous waters.

You're both intelligent men, who I believe I don't have to break it any further down for.

Call it a day, and move on! Also, please don't create other threads that are meant to drag one or the other back into a communication that will result in more conflict.
Chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians can be helpful, and has been for me on more then one occasion.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, please behave.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<>

Yep so true, for i am winding down, it has been a long journey, over 44 years i have been in the heat of the battle. Never thought i would stay in the battle this long. I thought and many others thought i wouldn't stay in the fight this long. For many stray away and come back later and took up the fight. for which is kinda normal, have some said. yep, thanks for the information and the encouragement to compete my retirement and enjoy my grandson. and play video games and chess and watch tv. WE enjoy one another. We be laughing so much, just like me and my youngest Daughter used to do
before she went off to college, she is 31 now.
Everybody else so dead serious ! They do not joke, even my wife the Smart, one , never got B in her life even in college for over 8 years, I don't think she ever even got A-, Nothing but A's and A+. I don't think a teacher ever taught her anything. She wrote The BOOK. And if you didn't go to "BROWN" YALE, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, U oF M, you ain't nothing to her. I know all those colleges, every day, it is "Lawyers, Doctors, Physics, Chemist, Professors, Psychiatrists, Brain Surgeons, Heart Surgeons. You ain't listening to me. She be mad, at me, well i going to "Europe" next week. 3 months Later oh did i tell you I going to ROME at the end of the month, I say ok. She been all over the world, Covid but stop to that, right after they got back from Greece, they had plan on going to "Dubai" last year, Still mad at me because i would take her to "China" just before "COVID 19" hit the street. And she was in "Paris" a week before that BOMB went off right were she was it, And that "EARTHQUAKE" In Italy she had just left "ROME" on the plane. I ain't going no where, I am going to stay right here in the U.S.A. where "BLM" Metro Detroit area! where the "Afghanistan Refugees" are at. I used to take out special insurance on her and the kids, they were flying to much, until she notice when the Book flights through "AAA" if the plane crash, AAA would automatically pay me double about a 1 Million and a 1/2 that is not including our regular life insurance and the what the AIRlines was going to paid. when she finally added that up! She was not happy camper. about 3 Million and house free and clear. And all these young girls running around here It has been a ride with a unregenerate wife

That DEVIL have her thinking. All her Lawyer friends and Judges, Political friends, i do not have a chance, And that "VOODO" burning those candles with those Black hoods on their heads, chatting in tongues. I don't have a chance. Every body on her side. and she put all that money in church. I remember sometimes we would put over "$2,000 a week in the church offering. when you put that much money a week in the offering plate you got clout. Planting seed. 100 return. LORD JESUS. I put a stop to that when they start putting them women in Leadership, telling me what to do. LOL! I put the brakes on. She got mad. those woman talked about me like a dog. "Prosperity Gospel", "Universalism", Homosexual, Lesbians, Witches, Greek Goddesses Worshipping, right there in the Church. it was everywhere i went. I mean it too, The churches was excepting with open arms in the name of LOVE.

LORD get me out of here! come quickly LORD COME. Get me out of here. It is too many. I can't breathe., I can't breathe.

Thanks, Christ4Ever

New American Standard Bible
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."

 

[Garee]

Nor does it fit mine. I tend to be more Arminian/Wesleyan in nature. I believe in a synergy between Christians and God.

Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
Php 2:13; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Neither verses works as a stand alone verse. .... you have always "obeyed". Obedience indicates subservience. You can't have one without the other. Otherwise it's just forced slavery.
Work out "your salvation".. there is work you have to do, God doesn't do it all.

Yes God is working in us, yes He has plans for us. But He still doesn't do it all.

The Father gives the Son anyone who will accept Him, this verse doesn't prove limited atonement at all.

Thanks for the reply.

I would suggest its the synergy of the father and Son working as one God that gives us the peace of God that does surpass our understanding as he gives us his understanding of faith .It as the power of God faithfully works in us to both will and empower us to do the good will as a our daily bread.

In that way knowing it is God working in us we are to do all things without murmurings and disputing . Hoping we can do it with delight like Jesus our example and not like Jonah the negative example.

Jonah the negative example kicked against the pricks all the way and wanted to die knowing he would not send him unless he had finished the work of forming Christ in the Ninevites.( The gospel )

Philipians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

We work out our salvation not work to gain it.

Jonah 4:1-3 King James Version But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.And he prayed unto the Lord, and said, I pray thee, O Lord, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

Hebrews speaks of the better thing that acompanies salvation rather than being angry with God which causes them to look for fault in those he sends us to . He promises he will not forget the good works we offer in respect to that Father and Sons name or power working together as one God.

Hebrews 6: 9-11 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

 

[Bethel]

Who decided that John Calvin was the only person who understood the bible?
The reason i ask, is because most believers, (mainline denominations) are all joined to Calvin's particular biblical theology.
So, who decided that this person , who burned people at the stake, was the bible authority?

A.) He did.

 

[B-A-C]

I would suggest its the synergy of the father and Son working as one God that gives us the peace of God that does surpass our understanding as he gives us his understanding of faith .It as the power of God faithfully works in us to both will and empower us to do the good will as a our daily bread.

It empowers us indeed. We can do nothing without the Holy Spirit.
But even with Jesus helping us... (watering us, fertilizing us, digging around us... ) some trees refuse to bear fruit.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; “And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
Luke 13:8; “And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

Now if God knows Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. If God knows we can do nothing without Jesus.... why would He be expecting to find fruit on this tree?
Did God prevent the fruit? Or did the tree simply refuse to bear any?

 

[B-A-C]

What ever GOD wants, he gets. He is GOD,,,,,, If He cannot Get, whats He wants, He ain't GOD! that means he has limited power.

If that's true... then everyone will be saved (Universalism)

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit (which He told them not to, so was He lying to them, and He really wanted them to?)
At that moment 100% of mankind was in sin against God. Did God quit being God during this time? Of course not.
God is still God, no matter what we do. God is so sovereign, it doesn't matter what we do.

 

[B-A-C]

The reason i ask, is because most believers, (mainline denominations) are all joined to Calvin's particular biblical theology.

Untrue, really only two major denomination follow Calvinist teachings. In the US it's really only the Baptists.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother, @PloughBoy
My heart goes out to you. Thank-you for sharing yours with me.
That being said, surely we're doing something wrong if there weren't trials and tribulations in our lives to deal with!!! It was so for the Prophets,
Apostles, and Saints. So, to for us. We are in good company!!!

To be honest, I just don't know how anyone in this World survives without Jesus!

Let Psalm 37 be of comfort to you my brother. "For yet in a little while..."

Continue to hold on to His promises that you know so well in His Word! Don't let go, for He won't let go of you my brother! So, be of good cheer, you're not alone!!! There are a few who wait together, and whose longing will be at an end when He calls us Home or on the Day of His Return! \o/

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
You are cherished!
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Reba1]

Yep so true, for i am winding down, it has been a long journey, over 44 years i have been in the heat of the battle. Never thought i would stay in the battle this long. I thought and many others thought i wouldn't stay in the fight this long. For many stray away and come back later and took up the fight. for which is kinda normal, have some said. yep, thanks for the information and the encouragement to compete my retirement and enjoy my grandson. and play video games and chess and watch tv. WE enjoy one another. We be laughing so much, just like me and my youngest Daughter used to do
before she went off to college, she is 31 now.
Everybody else so dead serious ! They do not joke, even my wife the Smart, one , never got B in her life even in college for over 8 years, I don't think she ever even got A-, Nothing but A's and A+. I don't think a teacher ever taught her anything. She wrote The BOOK. And if you didn't go to "BROWN" YALE, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, U oF M, you ain't nothing to her. I know all those colleges, every day, it is "Lawyers, Doctors, Physics, Chemist, Professors, Psychiatrists, Brain Surgeons, Heart Surgeons. You ain't listening to me. She be mad, at me, well i going to "Europe" next week. 3 months Later oh did i tell you I going to ROME at the end of the month, I say ok. She been all over the world, Covid but stop to that, right after they got back from Greece, they had plan on going to "Dubai" last year, Still mad at me because i would take her to "China" just before "COVID 19" hit the street. And she was in "Paris" a week before that BOMB went off right were she was it, And that "EARTHQUAKE" In Italy she had just left "ROME" on the plane. I ain't going no where, I am going to stay right here in the U.S.A. where "BLM" Metro Detroit area! where the "Afghanistan Refugees" are at. I used to take out special insurance on her and the kids, they were flying to much, until she notice when the Book flights through "AAA" if the plane crash, AAA would automatically pay me double about a 1 Million and a 1/2 that is not including our regular life insurance and the what the AIRlines was going to paid. when she finally added that up! She was not happy camper. about 3 Million and house free and clear. And all these young girls running around here It has been a ride with a unregenerate wife

That DEVIL have her thinking. All her Lawyer friends and Judges, Political friends, i do not have a chance, And that "VOODO" burning those candles with those Black hoods on their heads, chatting in tongues. I don't have a chance. Every body on her side. and she put all that money in church. I remember sometimes we would put over "$2,000 a week in the church offering. when you put that much money a week in the offering plate you got clout. Planting seed. 100 return. LORD JESUS. I put a stop to that when they start putting them women in Leadership, telling me what to do. LOL! I put the brakes on. She got mad. those woman talked about me like a dog. "Prosperity Gospel", "Universalism", Homosexual, Lesbians, Witches, Greek Goddesses Worshipping, right there in the Church. it was everywhere i went. I mean it too, The churches was excepting with open arms in the name of LOVE.

LORD get me out of here! come quickly LORD COME. Get me out of here. It is too many. I can't breathe., I can't breathe.

Thanks, Christ4Ever

New American Standard Bible
"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."

My brother, remember Job ,,,
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

 

[Shaolin]

Dear Shaolin,
Yes I've studied hermeneutics, but more cursory then a by rote. Especially since the Holy Spirit opens my understanding to what He will when I ingest Scripture, but can see where it does come in handy. I would say the greatest jewel from it would have been viewing Scripture in Context. Until I learn more of ANE covenants I'm not sure how I'll categorize its usefulness. Not knowing the entirety of it, but seeing the implication that God used it in His Covenants with Israeli, makes me think of the "Cart before the Horse" analogy, or God using what He wills. Anyway, being moved to understanding by the Holy Spirit at times happens when I'm researching something totally unrelated! It's at these times that I find myself jumping up in joy, praising His name! Alleluia!!! Used to make my wife jump, and then I start blabbering about it, but of course I would then I get the fish eye look from her for having made her jump out of her skin!!!

As far as the church I attend and its attention to Covenants. We have a couple of Teachers who provide College level courses on the subject. I haven't taken them, and don't see myself doing so, due to my personal responsibilities whose marriage covenant takes precedence at this time over many other things I would like to do. As the Lord wills.

On individuals being deceived, believing themselves saved who are not. Really not surprising. Matthew 7:22-23 and the rest of the chapter should be an eye opener to every believer, which speaks to the very subject.

Now on the ANE Covenants I've downloaded a pdf on the subject but haven't taken the time to read it yet. So, if you'd like to share some papers with me, no problem. I'll add it to my growing list of things to read.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Sure...here's just a few. Most of them are accessable on-line in theological journals...

Akkadian covenants (2400-2200 BC) Context for the Christ Event: Akkadian; Worldview Publications, 2005 (no specified author), available at worldviewpublications.org/outlook/context/article.php?idn=200501


Beacham, Roy E.
The New Covenant of Scripture in ANE Covenant Context: A Preliminary Paper; delivered at the Baptist Bible Seminary, September 23, 2009, Pg 29-30


Brown, Paul E.
The Basis for Hope: The Principle of the Covenant as a Biblical Basis of a Philosophy of History; Interpretation, 1955, page 35


Gehman, Henry S.
An Insight and a Realization: A Study of the New Covenant; Interpretation, 1955


Hahn, Scott
Covenant in the Old and New Testaments: Some Current Research (1994 – 2004); Currents in Biblical Research, April 2005, Vol.3 No. 2, page 266


Kline, Meredith G.
Law Covenant; Westminster Theological Journal, 27:1 (Nov. 1964),


Lawlor, William M.
An Examination of Covenant Rites Toward Developing an increased awareness of the Eucharist; University of Ottawa Doctorial Dissertation; 1969

Blessings

 

[Shaolin]

Now for my other hat!
Dear @PloughBoy & @Shaolin

Time for you two to separate on this. It doesn't require any great in sight on any ones part, to see a storm brewing that bares no good will for two boats heading into its tempestuous waters.

You're both intelligent men, who I believe I don't have to break it any further down for.

Call it a day, and move on! Also, please don't create other threads that are meant to drag one or the other back into a communication that will result in more conflict.
Chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians can be helpful, and has been for me on more then one occasion.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, please behave.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<>

Although I had already done so for my part, thanks for that.

Blessings

 

[Shaolin]

Who decided that John Calvin was the only person who understood the bible?
The reason i ask, is because most believers, (mainline denominations) are all joined to Calvin's particular biblical theology.
So, who decided that this person , who burned people at the stake, was the bible authority?

A.) He did.

That is what I keep asking people who defend him. They will be the first to say, "You don't know it all, no one does..." yet they turn around and act like calvin did know it all. Very telling on how such people think! Its all about bias, not truth to some.

Blessings!

 

[Shaolin]

It empowers us indeed. We can do nothing without the Holy Spirit.
But even with Jesus helping us... (watering us, fertilizing us, digging around us... ) some trees refuse to bear fruit.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; “And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
Luke 13:8; “And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

Now if God knows Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. If God knows we can do nothing without Jesus.... why would He be expecting to find fruit on this tree?
Did God prevent the fruit? Or did the tree simply refuse to bear any?

God gives all of those in Christ grace, time to figure things out and act...but He also has drawn a line in the sand, and when we cross it...well, we get what's coming to us. There is grace, but there are also rules He set for us to walk by, and when we refuse to do so, then we are on our own.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Shaolin,
Took a look at trying to find the references you provided to me. Sadly, except for one reference, by Meredith G. Kline, which I'll look at later, I was unable to get my hands on any of the others. I probably could have gotten my hands on them, if I had lied and told the repository/library that it was for Scientific Research. Not my style, so I'd rather do without.
I do appreciate the time and effort in compiling this short list.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

Brown, Paul E.
The Basis for Hope: The Principle of the Covenant as a Biblical Basis of a Philosophy of History; Interpretation, 1955, page 35

I guess I won't be getting this one. Locked and will cost to get it. However, the overview of it, is not something I would disagree with, and as the author would say, "the Old Testament appears to be a commentary on the covenant."

Gehman, Henry S.
An Insight and a Realization: A Study of the New Covenant; Interpretation, 1955

Liked the overview, but again "Locked and will cost to get it".

Hahn, Scott
Covenant in the Old and New Testaments: Some Current Research (1994 – 2004); Currents in Biblical Research, April 2005, Vol.3 No. 2, page 266

Couldn't even find an overview, though a book of his on Amazon was available for purchase. Apparently he's Catholic!

Lawlor, William M.
An Examination of Covenant Rites Toward Developing an increased awareness of the Eucharist; University of Ottawa Doctorial Dissertation; 1969

Unable to find it even in overview, except for your own writings which reference him.

 

[PloughBoy]

If that's true... then everyone will be saved (Universalism)

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit (which He told them not to, so was He lying to them, and He really wanted them to?)
At that moment 100% of mankind was in sin against God. Did God quit being God during this time? Of course not.
God is still God, no matter what we do. God is so sovereign, it doesn't matter what we do.

what ever you believe,
“I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE,” we also believe, therefore we also speak,"

 

[Shaolin]

Dear Shaolin,
Took a look at trying to find the references you provided to me. Sadly, except for one reference, by Meredith G. Kline, which I'll look at later, I was unable to get my hands on any of the others. I probably could have gotten my hands on them, if I had lied and told the repository/library that it was for Scientific Research. Not my style, so I'd rather do without.
I do appreciate the time and effort in compiling this short list.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><


I guess I won't be getting this one. Locked and will cost to get it. However, the overview of it, is not something I would disagree with, and as the author would say, "the Old Testament appears to be a commentary on the covenant."


Liked the overview, but again "Locked and will cost to get it".


Couldn't even find an overview, though a book of his on Amazon was available for purchase. Apparently he's Catholic!

Unable to find it even in overview, except for your own writings which reference him.

Interesting...they were all available when I got ahold of them. Some of them I copied and pasted into a Word document format, if there is any way to send some to you in that format here, let me know how to do it and I can send the ones that I do have to you...or I will go to the sources and see if I can give you a link to them.

Sorry about that!

 

[Shaolin]

Sure...here's just a few. Most of them are accessable on-line in theological journals...

Akkadian covenants (2400-2200 BC) Context for the Christ Event: Akkadian; Worldview Publications, 2005 (no specified author), available at worldviewpublications.org/outlook/context/article.php?idn=200501


Beacham, Roy E.
The New Covenant of Scripture in ANE Covenant Context: A Preliminary Paper; delivered at the Baptist Bible Seminary, September 23, 2009, Pg 29-30


Brown, Paul E.
The Basis for Hope: The Principle of the Covenant as a Biblical Basis of a Philosophy of History; Interpretation, 1955, page 35


Gehman, Henry S.
An Insight and a Realization: A Study of the New Covenant; Interpretation, 1955


Hahn, Scott
Covenant in the Old and New Testaments: Some Current Research (1994 – 2004); Currents in Biblical Research, April 2005, Vol.3 No. 2, page 266


Kline, Meredith G.
Law Covenant; Westminster Theological Journal, 27:1 (Nov. 1964),


Lawlor, William M.
An Examination of Covenant Rites Toward Developing an increased awareness of the Eucharist; University of Ottawa Doctorial Dissertation; 1969

Blessings

https://faithconnector.s3.amazonaws.com/chafer/files/v9n2_6israelite_covenants.pdf Part one

http://friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/Bible/ISRAELITE COVENANTS IN THE LIGHT2.pdf Part 2

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.519.5522&rep=rep1&type=pdf

https://meredithkline.com/files/articles/Law-Covenant.pdf

http://www.jcmatthews.org/uploads/5...hrough_covenant_by_peter_j._gentry_sample.pdf

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.519.5522&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Two things...keep in mind that not everything these guys say has been codified by further research, and I don't have the time to sit and read all of the articles that have come out since these. Also, JSTOR is free, all you have to do is sign up (or at least it used to be free, they didn't ask me for money when i logged on today, and i haven't logged on in over a year). There are a lot of resources on JSTOR if you are interested in reading the papers.

Blessings!

 

[PloughBoy]

My brother, remember Job ,,,
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Yes He did, But how close to know ef a one, that felt like me. Yet in my Darkest of Hour,, "I curse the Very DAY" i was born. about in the 8 year into my Salvation" For "The "Institutional CHURCH" was the worst thing i have ever encounter in all of my life, it like to "DESTROYED" me and trying to capture my soul, whom "Jesus" had set Free.
I thought it was a place of Holiness., But the Comfort that i knew, it was someone who felt just like me, and said the very words that came out my mouth, when I read these words when he "Curse the very Day he was Born" The church made me put A GUN in my Mouth and to blow my BRAINS AWAY, AND THE HOLY SPIRT WAS IN ME! THEN I pick up, READ THE BOOK OF JOB one more time, setting in the darkness and all alone. I Have never seen so much corruption backbitting, lying, adulteries , stealing, Clicks in my life. Every church i went. And when I got to JOB, one more time, I must have that book over 10 times. But this time Chapter 3 became a "Portrait" of me.
(JOB 3)
1After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. 2And Job [a]spoke, and said:
3“May the day perish on which I was born,
And the night in which it was said,
‘A male child is conceived.’
4May that day be darkness;
May God above not seek it,
Nor the light shine upon it.
5May darkness and the shadow of death claim it;
May a cloud settle on it;
May the blackness of the day terrify it.
6As for that night, may darkness seize it;
May it not https://biblehub.com/nkjv/job/3.htm#footnotesrejoice among the days of the year,
May it not come into the number of the months.
7Oh, may that night be barren!
May no joyful shout come into it!
8May those curse it who curse the day,
Those who are ready to arouse Leviathan.
9May the stars of its morning be dark;
May it look for light, but have none,
And not see the [c]dawning of the day;
10Because it did not shut up the doors of my mother’s womb, ....[I wish that my Mama would have kept her legs close I would have never come into this misery]
Nor hide sorrow from my eyes.
11“Why did I not die at birth?
Why did I not [d]perish when I came from the womb?
12Why did the knees receive me?
Or why the breasts, that I should nurse?
13For now I would have lain still and been quiet,
I would have been asleep;
Then I would have been at rest
14With kings and counselors of the earth,
Who built ruins for themselves,
15Or with princes who had gold,
Who filled their houses with silver;
16Or why was I not hidden like a stillborn child,
Like infants who never saw light?
17There the wicked cease from troubling,
And there the [e]weary are at rest.
18There the prisoners [f]rest together;
They do not hear the voice of the oppressor.
19The small and great are there,
And the servant is free from his master.
20“Why is light given to him who is in misery,
And life to the bitter of soul,
21Who long[g] for death, but it does not come,
And search for it more than hidden treasures;
22Who rejoice exceedingly,
And are glad when they can find the grave?
23Why is light given to a man whose way is hidden,
And whom God has hedged in?
24For my sighing comes before [h]I eat,
And my groanings pour out like water.
25For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me,
And what I dreaded has happened to me.
26I am not at ease, nor am I quiet;
I have no rest, for trouble comes.”

And I kept on Reading and did not stop and Finish the WHOLE Bible again.

And i do remember when I arrived here. In "The BOOK" GOD SPOKE TO ME!! AGAIN!
Jeremiah's Woe
"Woe to me, my mother, that you have borne me, a man of strife and conflict in all the land. I have neither lent nor borrowed, yet everyone curses me. The LORD said: “Surely I will deliver you for a good purpose; surely I will intercede with your enemy in your time of trouble, in your time of distress."

As I kept reading The BOOK in non stop mode. Speaking to me all "The WAY" showing in The WORD, about the people of this world and what is to come, and I Told HIM , i can't take it , what you are showing. Its tearing me apart. But He kept showing, and He would replay it in my dreams what i have already read, in 'Chronological Order" HE said: I had to set you aside. After this , You are going to know "I AM LORD" Your LORD! I knew HIM as Jesus, I knew HIM as My "SAVIOR",
When i get through with you, You are going to know, what the word "LORD" means Calling me "lord, lord", I AM is going to take all that "Hypocritical" dung out of you I am going to burn it all off And it is going Hurt you and not me. and you cannot do nothing about

I am telling you the Truth....44 years,,, I might of strayed a little bit, but you better believe it, i was in hearing distance.

 

[Garee]

It empowers us indeed. We can do nothing without the Holy Spirit.
But even with Jesus helping us... (watering us, fertilizing us, digging around us... ) some trees refuse to bear fruit.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; “And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’
Luke 13:8; “And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”

Now if God knows Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. If God knows we can do nothing without Jesus.... why would He be expecting to find fruit on this tree?
Did God prevent the fruit? Or did the tree simply refuse to bear any?

Thanks I see that a little differently

I would suggest the Son of man Jesus the first born of the father is one of the many branches. The unseen Holy Father is the vine or the power of growth .

Apostles as believers can plant the incorruptible born again seed and water it with the water of the word ,the gospel . But thy are considered as nothing Christ the vine, must empower and increase .

1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase

In that way were are his brother, sisters and mother . Call no man on earth father (the vine) Jesus was empowered to do the will just as any brother or sister in Christ.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother. . . . . (the branches)

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.