Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation?

[Tusk Barnes]

LOL Tusk the bible says the Earth is flat?! Where?:shock: Oops!! I reread. LOL

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.


Isaiah 40:22
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."


A circle is not a ball or sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is a flat round surface, a disc...similar to flat rectangular, or square, or triangular surfaces.




To name a few.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

First off, knowing what the Bible says is not synonymous with salvation. The Pharisees also prided themselves on knowing the Scriptures from memory but we see how that turned out. That being said, you will notice my reply to you was not quite so straightforward as I have no way of knowing your status with God.

Thanks for telling me more stuff I already know.

Now, on to the points you brought up. Nowhere does the Bible say the Earth is flat.

False. The bible teaches not only that the earth is flat in Matt 4:8, but it also contradicts itself between Isaiah 40:22, where the earth is called a disc and Rev 7:1 and Job 38:13, where the earth is described as a square.

In fact, many times, it indicates that it is a sphere which is amazing being that most people at that time DID think it was flat.

Would you mind showing me where it says this? It should also be noted that in the sixth century B.C.E., Pythagoras had already suggested that the Earth revolved around the Sun. By the third century B.C.E.,Aristarchus had outlined a heliocentric solar system, while Eratosthenes had measured the circumference of the Earth. Hipparchus had invented longitude and latitude.

The Bible also indicates that the Earth revolves around the sun which was unheard of at that point in time. Your claim that it teaches a flat Earth is most often a weak attempt to disprove the Bible by those who don't really know what it does teach.

False.

• Psa 104:5 says, "He set the Earth on its foundations; it can NEVER BE MOVED."
• Psa 93:1b and Psa 96:10b says, "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."
• Eccl 1:5 says, "The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

All of which suggest geocentricity, not heliocentricity. If you find heliocentricity in your Scripture, you're going to have to be aware that it contradicts these verses.

Your next claim is quite awkward. You just got on to RJ for making a claim that you say he can not know for fact yet here you are making one yourself. You say the dead never rose and entered the city. Were you there?

I'm going to assume that last question was rhetorical, instead of just ridiculous. No, I was not there, but you who was? Plenty of other writers. The first century is one of the best documented periods we have in history. And do you know how many writers in the area at the time of Jesus mention zombies? Just one...Matthew. Even the other gospels make no mention of this, neither does Paul. Surely, if people rose from their graves, milled about for a couple days, and then walked into the city of Jerusalem, someone else would have also had something to say about it...and yet everyone is silent.

Even if you want to take away the divinity of Scripture, one must still give it a minimal respect as being a historic document that has yet to be proven wrong.

False. The Bible is a terrible example of a historic document, and it has been proven incorrect on many occasions.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

No problem, I will let the Bible define Spirit but first, since it is true that we have never met could you please:
1.Share with me how you know the Bible perfectly because I have never known anyone like that, except maybe God!
2. Could you show the multiple verses that show that the earth is flat?
3. Where does the Bible say it is false about the buried dead not being resurrected?
4. And, since we never met, where exactly did I say that you were not born of the Spirit?

Also, just to make sure we are on the same page, this is a Talk Jesus Forum and not a Anti-Jesus Talk Forum:wink:

Where does the Bible define Spirit? Help, please.

I didn't say I knew the Bible perfectly. I just know it well enough to know that it is absolutely unbelievable.

I suggested a few flat earth verses in my most recent replies...no need to rehash them here.

The Bible doesn't say it's false. Facts do.

And apologies, but I guess you didn't say I was never born of the Spirit. I think your actual words were "If this is the case, you were never indwelt with the Spirit and saved in the first place." Something you cannot possibly know.

 

[RJ]

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.


Isaiah 40:22
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."


A circle is not a ball or sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is a flat round surface, a disc...similar to flat rectangular, or square, or triangular surfaces.

Tusk, you haven't answered my questions yet:

Hi there. We haven't met, but you seem to think you know a lot about me. You do not. I have read the bible religiously once through, every year for the past nine years. I know exactly what Hebrews says. I know exactly what the rest of the bible says. It also declares multiple times that the earth is flat. It also states that when Jesus died, the dead buried outside Jerusalem rose from their graves and walked into the city three days later. None of this is true. So forgive me, but you're going to have to use some other reference to justify saying I was never born of the spirit. You can start by defining Spirit. Thanks

No problem, I will let the Bible define Spirit but first, since it is true that we have never met could you please:
1.Share with me how you know the Bible perfectly because I have never known anyone like that, except maybe God!
2. Could you show the multiple verses that show that the earth is flat?
3. Where does the Bible say it is false about the buried dead not being resurrected?
4. And, since we never met, where exactly did I say that you were not born of the Spirit?

Also, just to make sure we are on the same page, this is a Talk Jesus Forum and not a Anti-Jesus Talk Forum:wink:




Also, your above excuse and interpretation of Matthew and why it said the earth is flat is about the worst attempt to prove the BIBLE is false that I have ever witnessed. And worse yet, you cant be interject your fleshy, worldly views on a Spiritual incident between the Devil and Jesus, that is a joke!

 

[RJ]

Where does the Bible define Spirit? Help, please.

I didn't say I knew the Bible perfectly. I just know it well enough to know that it is absolutely unbelievable.

I suggested a few flat earth verses in my most recent replies...no need to rehash them here.

The Bible doesn't say it's false. Facts do.

And apologies, but I guess you didn't say I was never born of the Spirit. I think your actual words were "If this is the case, you were never indwelt with the Spirit and saved in the first place." Something you cannot possibly know.

And apologies, but I guess you didn't say I was never born of the Spirit. I think your actual words were "If this is the case, you were never indwelt with the Spirit and saved in the first place." Something you cannot possibly know.[/QUOTE]

It's all too obvious, If you are in fact indwelt with a Spirit, it is not the Spirit of God!

Tusk, I just am not going to battle you over your Apostasy. And I say this again, with all do respect to you and your opinion, your Anti-Jesus Rhetoric has no place in a Talk Jesus forum; You would be better suited finding another forum where you talk about atheism or what ever else it is that you are into!...I'm done with your blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Tusk, you haven't answered my questions yet:



No problem, I will let the Bible define Spirit but first, since it is true that we have never met could you please:
1.Share with me how you know the Bible perfectly because I have never known anyone like that, except maybe God!
2. Could you show the multiple verses that show that the earth is flat?
3. Where does the Bible say it is false about the buried dead not being resurrected?
4. And, since we never met, where exactly did I say that you were not born of the Spirit?

Also, just to make sure we are on the same page, this is a Talk Jesus Forum and not a Anti-Jesus Talk Forum:wink:

1. I do not know the Bible perfectly. I do, however, know enough to know that it is unbelievable.
2. I have done so, while no one has yet presented any verses suggesting a round Earth.
3. I don't understand what you're asking. I never claimed that the Bible said that the buried dead rising was false.
4. I guess you didn't say I was never born of the Spirit. I think your actual words were "If this is the case, you were never indwelt with the Spirit and saved in the first place."

Also, your above excuse and interpretation of Matthew and why it said the earth is flat is about the worst attempt to prove the BIBLE is false that I have ever witnessed. And worse yet, you cant be interject your fleshy, worldly views on a Spiritual incident between the Devil and Jesus, that is a joke!

You have still not answered my question. What in the world does "spirit" or "spiritual" mean?

 

[Tusk Barnes]

It's all too obvious, If you are in fact indwelt with a Spirit, it is not the Spirit of God!

Tusk, I just am not going to battle you over your Apostasy. And I say this again, with all do respect to you and your opinion, your Anti-Jesus Rhetoric has no place in a Talk Jesus forum; You would be better suited finding another forum where you talk about atheism or what ever else it is that you are into!...I'm done with your blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

Haha. Is that jab an attempt to call me possessed? C'mon, there's no need for name calling here. Let's act like grown-ups. And Talk Jesus has an obligation to welcome the lost with open arms. And for sobbing out loud, what does Spirit mean?!

 

[RJ]

1. I do not know the Bible perfectly. I do, however, know enough to know that it is unbelievable.
2. I have done so, while no one has yet presented any verses suggesting a round Earth.
3. I don't understand what you're asking. I never claimed that the Bible said that the buried dead rising was false.
4. I guess you didn't say I was never born of the Spirit. I think your actual words were "If this is the case, you were never indwelt with the Spirit and saved in the first place."





You have still not answered my question. What in the world does "spirit" or "spiritual" mean?

OK, you have drawn me in one more time


I don't understand what you're asking. I never claimed that the Bible said that the buried dead rising was false.....Oh really!!! Would you please, in all your vast knowledge of the Bible because you have read so much of it, explain what you said below, in the red?

Originally Posted by Tusk Barnes
Hi there. We haven't met, but you seem to think you know a lot about me. You do not. I have read the bible religiously once through, every year for the past nine years. I know exactly what Hebrews says. I know exactly what the rest of the bible says. It also declares multiple times that the earth is flat. It also states that when Jesus died, the dead buried outside Jerusalem rose from their graves and walked into the city three days later. None of this is true. So forgive me, but you're going to have to use some other reference to justify saying I was never born of the spirit. You can start by defining Spirit. Thanks

You have still not answered my question. What in the world does "spirit" or "spiritual" mean?[

I really thank you are pulling my leg here because you have been so Anti-Bible, Jesus and God but, just in case you really don't know, then you deserve an answer:

In regard to the Bible and TJ's, the Spirit (or) Holy Spirit, is one third of the Triune God: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three all different and yet all the same. Analogues somewhat to and egg. A complete egg is composed of a shell, yoke and a white. They are all separated yet they are the same: Egg Shell, Egg yoke and egg white. Concerning the analogy, the only difference is, the egg parts can be separated and the God parts can not.

Being Spiritual is to be "Born Again" or born of the "God The Spirit" and that you are inside God and he is inside you.

Of course the Bible, that you know so well, says that without a person being indwelt with the spirit, it is folly or foolishness to that person and that describes you perfectly!

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Tusk

Well Tusk You said in post #106
"
I do not know the Bible perfectly. I do, however, know enough to know that it is unbelievable."

Well son, the Bible is the Word of God. It is God. If you think its unbelievable, if you think God is lying then there is no way you are born again. You are not dumb enough to put your eternity into the hands of somebody you don't trust are you?

So....How are you saved?
You take the Word totally out of context and interpret it with your own faulty intellect. Tusk you cannot understand spirit with intellect. And logic is foolishness in the spirit.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Well Tusk You said in post #106
"
I do not know the Bible perfectly. I do, however, know enough to know that it is unbelievable."

Well son, the Bible is the Word of God. It is God. If you think its unbelievable, if you think God is lying then there is no way you are born again. You are not dumb enough to put your eternity into the hands of somebody you don't trust are you?

Firstly, suggesting I am dumb is really unnecessary. It does little for the case you've presented, and it's also against forum rules. Secondly, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God? How is it also God? I thought Jesus was God, and the Holy Spirit was God, and God was God. Is the Bible God too, now? Did you just make the Trinity into a quartet? I haven't yet said that the Bible isn't the Word of God (I haven't even mentioned God), but I don't know why I should believe you. So, how did you come about this knowledge? Did somebody tell you? Did you figure it out yourself? I don't know why I should believe what you're saying, until I have more information.

So....How are you saved?
You take the Word totally out of context and interpret it with your own faulty intellect. Tusk you cannot understand spirit with intellect. And logic is foolishness in the spirit.

I am not saved anymore. Which is precisely what I've been trying to say. The question posed on this discussion board is "Can a Christian lose their salvation?" and I'm saying, "Yes. I'm living proof of it." I have no need of salvation and so I have given it up. Now, you suggest that spirit cannot be understood with intellect and logic...well, please tell me how it can be understood.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Firstly, suggesting I am dumb is really unnecessary. It does little for the case you've presented, and it's also against forum rules. Secondly, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God? How is it also God? I thought Jesus was God, and the Holy Spirit was God, and God was God. Is the Bible God too, now? Did you just make the Trinity into a quartet? I haven't yet said that the Bible isn't the Word of God (I haven't even mentioned God), but I don't know why I should believe you. So, how did you come about this knowledge? Did somebody tell you? Did you figure it out yourself? I don't know why I should believe what you're saying, until I have more information.



I am not saved anymore. Which is precisely what I've been trying to say. The question posed on this discussion board is "Can a Christian lose their salvation?" and I'm saying, "Yes. I'm living proof of it." I have no need of salvation and so I have given it up. Now, you suggest that spirit cannot be understood with intellect and logic...well, please tell me how it can be understood.

Now, you suggest that spirit cannot be understood with intellect and logic...well, please tell me how it can be understood.[/QUOTE]

I did not suggest you are dumb. Where did you get that?

You are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.
You understand things of the spirit with your spirit and led by the Holy Spirit. If you don't believe the Bible though, Tusk, what basis for conversation is there?

 

[tghslh]

the scripture teraches, salvation is of the Lord. saying to me that it is not of man. he that begun a good work in you will perform it. what the Lord dotheth he doth forever. i did nothing to earn salvation. it was given to me at Christs exspence. how would i perfect it now by the keeping of the law, which i have already broken. and if left to myself, to keep myself, ill fail every day, and at what point could i redem myself at all. salvation is by grace , plus nothing ,minus nothing. it is all of God that has shown great kindness. i trust him to save me. as he sais ,lean not on the arm of flesh. for i know there dwelth in me no good thing. but Christ is in my heart,and im shielded from that sin.he has never said to me youre saved unless. he has saved youre saved piriod. so the works that i do , i do becouse i am saved. not becouse i want to be saved. but now there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin. he has acomplished that once and for all. he was the surprim sacrifice. and it is finished. he will not die again if i were lost would there remain still a need for sacrific again. no the vale has been rent, the sacrifice has been offered ,it is finished.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

It also states that when Jesus died, the dead buried outside Jerusalem rose from their graves and walked into the city three days later. None of this is true.

After which, you asked me...

3. Where does the Bible say it is false about the buried dead not being resurrected?

I don't know what you mean. The Bible doesn't say it is false. This may be confusion springing from poor grammar and syntax, but why are you asking me where the Bible says it is false? I (not the Bible) am the one suggesting this event, the dead rising from their graves (after Christ's death), is false (or at the very least, unbelievable) because it is unsupported by any other Gospel or Epistle writers. It is also unsupported by any extra-Biblical writers in the area during the time Jesus is supposed to have been crucified. As I said earlier, the 1st century is one of the most well documented eras we have of our human history. The fact that nobody except Matthew, in or out of the Bible, has anything to say about hundreds, perhaps thousands of zombies walking into a very populous city like Jerusalem (after Christ's resurrection), leads me to believe that it didn't actually happen.

I also understand that this is a Talk Jesus forum, not an anti-Jesus forum. I haven't said anything negative about Jesus, so you can relax.

Moving on...

I really think you are pulling my leg here because you have been so Anti-Bible, Jesus and God but, just in case you really don't know, then you deserve an answer.

I assure you, I am not pulling your leg. These questions are sincere. I have certainly not been anti-Jesus or anti-God. I haven't said anything unkind or untrue about either of them. In fact, I haven't even gotten a chance to make much mention of Them yet.

In regard to the Bible and RJ's, the Spirit (or) Holy Spirit, is one third of the Triune God: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three all different and yet all the same. Analogous somewhat to and egg. A complete egg is composed of a shell, yoke and a white. They are all separated yet they are the same: Egg Shell, Egg yoke and egg white. Concerning the analogy, the only difference is, the egg parts can be separated and the God parts can not.

OK, here is what I'm not getting. Jesus seems like He could be the physical aspect of God. That's easy enough. But what are the other two? What are they made of? What is the stuff of God? Is He a ghost? A vapor of some sort? I still don't know what a spirit is here. Eggs are physical. So are all the parts of an egg. There is nothing spiritual in an egg, so what are you talking about?

Being Spiritual is to be "Born Again" or born of the "God The Spirit" and that you are inside God and he is inside you.

Of course the Bible, that you know so well, says that without a person being indwelt with the spirit, it is folly or foolishness to that person and that describes you perfectly!

How are you inside something when it is inside you?! That doesn't make any sense. And is that more Biblically justified name calling I see? Can we please talk like adults? I'm here because I believe you ladies and gentlemen have information about something I don't understand, and I would like to understand. I do know the Bible well, my friend, and your insults and exclamation points and passive aggression not only bear a terrible witness...they also make you seem to have little to offer to an actual discussion. Please, try being helpful instead of angry.

 

[tghslh]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

 

[Tusk Barnes]

I did not suggest you are dumb. Where did you get that?

You are a spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.
You understand things of the spirit with your spirit and led by the Holy Spirit. If you don't believe the Bible though, Tusk, what basis for conversation is there?

You're right, you didn't call me dumb. I'm sorry, I misread that. You actually just asked if I was dumb...well no. I am not, thank you for asking.

Now what do you mean, I am a spirit? I am a human. I am a male. I am a brother and a son, but what is a spirit? And how do you know that I am one? That whole explanation is painfully cyclical. Understanding things of the spirit with your spirit? Huh? How do you know if your spirit is understanding things of the spirit correctly, if you can't even tell me what a spirit is?!

 

[tghslh]

you cant lose what you never had. if you know the Lord you love him and youve said i dont need to be saved. so obviously, you arnt, and never have deen saved, but when you realy hear his vioce , a small, still voice,on the inside, harden not youre heart ,as he will also save you right then and there.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

You're right, you didn't call me dumb. I'm sorry, I misread that. You actually just asked if I was dumb...well no. I am not, thank you for asking.

Now what do you mean, I am a spirit? I am a human. I am a male. I am a brother and a son, but what is a spirit? And how do you know that I am one? That whole explanation is painfully cyclical. Understanding things of the spirit with your spirit? Huh? How do you know if your spirit is understanding things of the spirit correctly, if you can't even tell me what a spirit is?!

Yup...There is no basis for conversation :coocoo:

 

[RJ]

Firstly, suggesting I am dumb is really unnecessary. It does little for the case you've presented, and it's also against forum rules. Secondly, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God? How is it also God? I thought Jesus was God, and the Holy Spirit was God, and God was God. Is the Bible God too, now? Did you just make the Trinity into a quartet? I haven't yet said that the Bible isn't the Word of God (I haven't even mentioned God), but I don't know why I should believe you. So, how did you come about this knowledge? Did somebody tell you? Did you figure it out yourself? I don't know why I should believe what you're saying, until I have more information.



I am not saved anymore. Which is precisely what I've been trying to say. The question posed on this discussion board is "Can a Christian lose their salvation?" and I'm saying, "Yes. I'm living proof of it." I have no need of salvation and so I have given it up. Now, you suggest that spirit cannot be understood with intellect and logic...well, please tell me how it can be understood.

Your Apostasy is against Forum rules.

Also, others may not believe this either but you do have a problem and I believe it is a very clear doctrine of the Bible, you have never been saved, born of the spirit and a child of God to turn away to Apostasy. You are not saved anymore because you were not saved in the first place. For you, ironically, it is the Bible that describes the result of your non-belief. With out the Holy Spirit in you before and still not in you now, this is all folly to you or foolishness. For a true believer as my self, it is clear as the light of day, this feeling of foolishness of yours is solid indication that you have never been saved.

Now I know that this is the last thing that you want to hear but as you go forward now and you remain lost and angry inside and as long as you breathe this physical air we live in, you can be saved and you can see the light and find the truth that can set you free from this torement!

 

[Tusk Barnes]

Your Apostasy is against Forum rules.

Are you seriously suggesting that because I am "lost," I should not allowed to post on this forum? What are you so afraid of? Bear your witness, for crying out loud. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am incorrect. It also does not mean you are incorrect

Also, others may not believe this either but you do have a problem and I believe it is a very clear doctrine of the Bible, you have never been saved, born of the spirit and a child of God to turn away to Apostasy. You are not saved anymore because you were not saved in the first place.

I have already given several examples as to why the Bible is not doctrinally credible in this discussion. You don't know anything about me. Do not dare try to take the last 10 years of my service to the King away from me. I absolutely was saved. I believed myself a depraved and wretched sinner, I declared Christ Lord, I believed in my heart, loved and obeyed God, loved people, was baptized, prayed, worshiped, etc. All in service to my God and my Jesus.

For you, ironically, it is the Bible that describes the result of your non-belief. With out the Holy Spirit in you before and still not in you now, this is all folly to you or foolishness. For a true believer as my self, it is clear as the light of day, this feeling of foolishness of yours is solid indication that you have never been saved.

Hahahaha. Teach my your ways oh true and wise believer. How can I be as lucky as you? How is it that you're so smart that you "get it" and I tragically do not?

Now I know that this is the last thing that you want to hear but as you go forward now and you remain lost and angry inside and as long as you breathe this physical air we live in, you can be saved and you can see the light and find the truth that can set you free from this torement!

I assure you, I have never been more free and less angry in all my life. I am the happiest I can possibly remember being. I do not envy you your shackles. It is you who is lost. I am the one who has been found.

 

[RJ]

Are you seriously suggesting that because I am "lost," I should not allowed to post on this forum? What are you so afraid of? Bear your witness, for crying out loud. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am incorrect. It also does not mean you are incorrect



I have already given several examples as to why the Bible is not doctrinally credible in this discussion. You don't know anything about me. Do not dare try to take the last 10 years of my service to the King away from me. I absolutely was saved. I believed myself a depraved and wretched sinner, I declared Christ Lord, I believed in my heart, loved and obeyed God, loved people, was baptized, prayed, worshiped, etc. All in service to my God and my Jesus.



Hahahaha. Teach my your ways oh true and wise believer. How can I be as lucky as you? How is it that you're so smart that you "get it" and I tragically do not?



I assure you, I have never been more free and less angry in all my life. I am the happiest I can possibly remember being. I do not envy you your shackles. It is you who is lost. I am the one who has been found.

So be it, if you have never been more free and less angry in your life, I shudder to think how angry you must have been before and with Christ living in you!