Can One Pray in the Spirit Without Speaking in Tongues?

[Butch5]

1Cor 14:14; For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Ok, if I said I pray in Chinese, would Chinese be a prayer language?

 

[Waggles]

Jude 1:17 But YE beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
1:18 that they said to you, In the last time mockers shall be, walking after their own ungodly lusts.
1:19 These are they who make separations, having only soul, not having Spirit.
1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
1:21 keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
1:22 And on some have mercy, who are in doubt; and

 

[Butch5]

Jude 1:17 But YE beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
1:18 that they said to you, In the last time mockers shall be, walking after their own ungodly lusts.
1:19 These are they who make separations, having only soul, not having Spirit.
1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
1:21 keep yourselves in God’s love, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
1:22 And on some have mercy, who are in doubt; and

Where do you see tongues is a prayer language?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Yes, Tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel. Contrary to what some believe it is not a prayer language.

So what is it then?

 

[B-A-C]

Ok, if I said I pray in Chinese, would Chinese be a prayer language?

Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think any people in China pray in Chinese?

 

[Butch5]

So what is it then?

It was a sign to Israel

 

[Butch5]

Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think any people in China pray in Chinese?

Sure, it's a language that people use to pray, just like every other language. But it's not a language that is specific to prayer. It's simply a spoken language.

 

[Waggles]

Where do you see tongues is a prayer language?

Now that is truly the difference between those who can and do pray in the Holy Spirit and those who cannot.

 

[Butch5]

Now that is truly the difference between those who can and do pray in the Holy Spirit and those who cannot.

The passage says nothing about tongues. It speaks of praying in the Spirit.

 

[Waggles]

The passage says nothing about tongues. It speaks of praying in the Spirit.

Thus you reveal that you do not pray in tongues for you have no understanding of the scriptures concerning baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues by a believer of the gospel.

 

[Butch5]

Thus you reveal that you do not pray in tongues for you have no understanding of the scriptures concerning baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues by a believer of the gospel.

And, you still haven't shown a passage that says tongues is a prayer language. Maybe it's not me that's lacking understanding.

 

[BunnyOnion]

Can you show me where in Scripture it's said to be a prayer language? As I pointed out, tongues was given as a sign for unbelieving Israel.

Did you share the scripture that says tongues was given as a sign to unbelieving Israel?

1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[b] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” 22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign[c] not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?



Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;


Isaiah 28:11 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people,

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Its sad how some people have enough knowledge to make them think they understand it all but not enough knowledge to see that they're wrong....
How is that said? Oh yeah...."He knows just enough to make him dangerous." There are a lot of Christians like that.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Its sad how some people have enough knowledge to make them think they understand it all but not enough knowledge to see that they're wrong....
How is that said? Oh yeah...."He knows just enough to make him dangerous." There are a lot of Christians like that.

Is there anyone in here (talkjesus.com) who "understands it all" and has the knowledge to know they're right?

 

[Butch5]

Did you share the scripture that says tongues was given as a sign to unbelieving Israel?

1 Corinthians 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider[b] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” 22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign[c] not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?



Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;


Isaiah 28:11 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people,

Are you aware that the book of 1 Corinthians is a rebuke of the church for their abuses? They were dividing into cliques based on whose teaching they heard, Paul said they were carnal and not spiritual, they were abusing the Eucharist which he rebuked them for. They were abusing the spiritual spiritual gifts. The book is a rebuke, This is the context in which Paul wrote about tongues.

Paul said,

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
(1 Cor. 14:21-22 KJV)

Paul said, it is written in the Law that God would to this people with men of other tongues. Where is it written?

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. (Isa. 28:11-14 KJV)

This is what Paul is referring to in 1 Cor. 14:21-22. When he says it is written in the Law, he's referring to Isaiah 28. Isaiah said that God would speak to "this people" with other tongues. Paul also said that God would speak to "this people" with tongues. Paul concludes from this that tongues is a sign for unbelievers. As were see from Isaiah, the unbelievers are Israel.

 

[Butch5]

Its sad how some people have enough knowledge to make them think they understand it all but not enough knowledge to see that they're wrong....
How is that said? Oh yeah...."He knows just enough to make him dangerous." There are a lot of Christians like that.

Yes, there are. No one has yet posted anything that says tongues is a prayer language.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Do Spirit filled deaf mutes speak an unknown sign language? Or do they simply make unintelligible grunts and groans in a different tongue?

 

[B-A-C]

Do Spirit filled deaf mutes speak an unknown sign language? Or do they simply make unintelligible grunts and groans in a different tongue?

Do they speak in a known tongue?

 

[JerryfromMass]

Do they speak in a known tongue?

Do they?

 

[BunnyOnion]

Are you aware that the book of 1 Corinthians is a rebuke of the church for their abuses? They were dividing into cliques based on whose teaching they heard, Paul said they were carnal and not spiritual, they were abusing the Eucharist which he rebuked them for. They were abusing the spiritual spiritual gifts. The book is a rebuke, This is the context in which Paul wrote about tongues.

Paul said,

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
(1 Cor. 14:21-22 KJV)

Paul said, it is written in the Law that God would to this people with men of other tongues. Where is it written?

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. (Isa. 28:11-14 KJV)

This is what Paul is referring to in 1 Cor. 14:21-22. When he says it is written in the Law, he's referring to Isaiah 28. Isaiah said that God would speak to "this people" with other tongues. Paul also said that God would speak to "this people" with tongues. Paul concludes from this that tongues is a sign for unbelievers. As were see from Isaiah, the unbelievers are Israel.

Acts 18

You realize the first "Christians" were of Israel or, were Jews?
And that the church in Corinth was compromised of Gentile converts and Jews. 1 Corinthians chapters 6,7,8 and 12.