Can You Loose Your Salvation?

[Bendito]

Once saved always saved, or lose your salvation is moot if you walk in the anointing and stay there. If you slip and sin, (which we do on occasion) confess your sin, and He is faithful, and just to forgive the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....Simply walk in the anointing, and you will never lose your salvation. (If that is possible)
We are saved by the empowering PRESENCE of God and from there we choose our path. Obedience and all facets of prosperity, or disobedience and all facets of poverty.

I have never said you are not saved. In all of my discussions at TJ on OSAS, I have never once said that a anti- OSAS person is not saved. That is for God to determine, not me. But, I look at these verses and I don't see what you see, they no way support your theology!
You live in the physical world but when you die you enter the spiritual realm. Before you die ( the physical world) has Jesus returned? No! When you die you enter God's spiritual realm. After you die, does Jesus return? You better believe it!

When you are born again you begin to live in the spiritual realm.....

 

[amadeus2]

I would love to know from anti OSAS believers how they explain the thief next to Jesus on the cross. We who endure more for God stand a risk of going to hell? If that was true we should all desire to be martyrs asap.

The "good" thief on the cross next to Jesus is like the 11th hour worker who received the same penny as those who worked all the long day. Each of us is given what we are by God to accomplish what He wants us to accomplish.

What He has given each of is a certain amount of time, a certain ability, a certain education, a certain opportunity, etc. God's judgment for or against us is based on what we have done with what we have/had.

On the 11th hour:

"Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee." Matt 20:5-14

On what we do with what we are given:


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

On this last point of Luke 12:48 I must add this. What we are given includes also our understanding of God's Word. For this reason I would not arbitrarily decide that any believer of OSAS is lost. God knows and looks at every heart. His judgment is fair in every case. If people are striving to live what they really believe is true according to what God has told them, how could they be lost?

What each of us should be doing continuously, I believe, be we pro OSAS or not, is asking God what else He has for us and also asking for help to use what we do have to accomplish His purpose for us in our particular function as a part of the Body of Christ. When we are certain that we are correct in every point, then and only then should we sit back on our laurels, so to speak. But, as I see it, in serving God while we live in this flesh there should never be a retirement date. Our retirement date from doing the things of God in this flesh is, or should be, equal to the day we have drawn our last carnal breath.

 

[Sue J Love]

But, I look at these verses and I don't see what you see, they no way support your theology!

So, what do you believe these verses are saying? What is the message that we are to get from them?

If, Then What?

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” (John 8:31-32)

“If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!” (Romans 11:17-24)

“By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain” (I Co 15:2)

“Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant” (Col 1:21-23).

“Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;

if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;

if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself” (II Tim 2:10-13).

“… And we are his house, IF we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion” (Hebrews 3:6, 14-15).

“For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (II Peter 1:5-11).

“See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life” (I John 2:24-25).

 

[Born Again 2004]

When you are born again you begin to live in the spiritual realm.....

Yes, spiritually you live there but we unfortunately are currently bound to he physical realm were our equities abound! Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,....notice its says raised...not raising....will raise, to be raised...but the past tense as if it already has happened. Come to think of it, this verse supports OSAS!

So, what do you believe these verses are saying? What is the message that we are to get from them?

If, Then What?

So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” (John 8:31-32)

“If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!” (Romans 11:17-24)

“By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain” (I Co 15:2)

“Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant” (Col 1:21-23).

“Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.
Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;

if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;

if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself” (II Tim 2:10-13).

“… And we are his house, IF we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion” (Hebrews 3:6, 14-15).

“For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (II Peter 1:5-11).

“See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life” (I John 2:24-25).

We could end all this, if you would directly answer the question...do you currently sin?

 

[Lanolin]

When God said to Paul 'my grace is sufficient for you' it was because Paul was being afflicted by a messenger from Satan to stop him from being too proud. God didnt take it away cos He wanted to allow this as a test for Pauls faith and reliance on Him alone. Despite all Pauls phariseeic qualifications to be a man of God. That is why Paul said he couldnt boast of anything but Jesus Christ..all his qualifications were but dung.

The repentent thief on the cross...was on the cross! In pain! Next to Jesus. Also he couldnt steal anything on the cross could he...but he could still witness to others that Jesus was the Son of God. From the cross!

Both Paul and this repentent thief endured and perservered. They didnt sin while relying on God's grace.

Yes, spiritually you live there but we unfortunately are currently bound to he physical realm were our equities abound! Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,....notice its says raised...not raising....will raise, to be raised...but the past tense as if it already has happened. Come to think of it, this verse supports OSAS!

You are not bound if Jesus has delivered you and set you free. If there is sin in your life...are you getting rid of it, by asking Jesus and following Him? Seriously. This is what we ought to be doing everyday, even while living in a fallen world. God loved us while we were yet sinners, yes, but we are called to be saints. Too many people just keep thinking they are sinners but we reckon ourselves dead to sin and sin no more...this is what Jesus told the woman caught in adultery do you think she continued in sin?! No way!!
She would have been a fool to...and we know whom much is forgiven how much she loved Jesus and went to follow Him for the rest of her (new) life.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Once saved always saved, or lose your salvation is moot if you walk in the anointing and stay there. If you slip and sin, (which we do on occasion) confess your sin, and He is faithful, and just to forgive the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....Simply walk in the anointing, and you will never lose your salvation. (If that is possible)
We are saved by the empowering PRESENCE of God and from there we choose our path. Obedience and all facets of prosperity, or disobedience and all facets of poverty.

I see,

• So you recognize each sin in your life so you can confess it, right?
• What do you do about the sins you commit that you don't see or forget to confess?

 

[KingJ]

The "good" thief on the cross next to Jesus is like the 11th hour worker who received the same penny as those who worked all the long day. Each of us is given what we are by God to accomplish what He wants us to accomplish.

What He has given each of is a certain amount of time, a certain ability, a certain education, a certain opportunity, etc. God's judgment for or against us is based on what we have done with what we have/had.

On the 11th hour:

"Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee." Matt 20:5-14

On what we do with what we are given:


"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

On this last point of Luke 12:48 I must add this. What we are given includes also our understanding of God's Word. For this reason I would not arbitrarily decide that any believer of OSAS is lost. God knows and looks at every heart. His judgment is fair in every case. If people are striving to live what they really believe is true according to what God has told them, how could they be lost?

What each of us should be doing continuously, I believe, be we pro OSAS or not, is asking God what else He has for us and also asking for help to use what we do have to accomplish His purpose for us in our particular function as a part of the Body of Christ. When we are certain that we are correct in every point, then and only then should we sit back on our laurels, so to speak. But, as I see it, in serving God while we live in this flesh there should never be a retirement date. Our retirement date from doing the things of God in this flesh is, or should be, equal to the day we have drawn our last carnal breath.

Very good Amadeus. We have discussed this before, but this is definitely the example you should always use. I however still do not believe this resolves my question. All go to heaven in this example. We need to amend it to.....''Well done my good and faithful servant, you followed Matt 16:24, IE you laid your life down for me, you carried your cross, you endured persecution, you gave your all....but then you started sinning and now you will be cast out for all eternity from my presence you worker of iniquity''.

It is shockingly surprising that anyone think they are without sin and deserve to keep their salvation more then others. They are simply missing the boat by miles. We are saved because we lay our lives down for God as He did for us. No less and no more is required. Evidence of this is following Matt 16:24, sincere repentance. God always sees the depth of intent we sank too. Now He sanctifies us / washes us clean and welcomes us into eternal life with Him. Just as we would do with a spouse we marry. Their decision to marry us showing depth of intent. Would you leave a spouse that is difficult? God never leaves nor forsakes us. We are His, because He has made us His.

As has been said, a person who is able to still continue in mortal sins would never be sanctifed by God in the first place. God does Jer 17:9-12. We debate and discuss this subject in circles all day because we cannot do Jer 17:9-12.

 

[KingJ]

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Romans 11:17-23

Sue it does not help quoting a verse out of context. OSAS needs context and we have shown that now on numerous occasions. What you are doing is quoting a verse like '''Esau I have hated and Jacob I have loved'' as though God hates Esau and loved only Jacob. When other scripture shines light on this. Light that shows us God loves both.

Take the green I have highlighted as an example. ''broken off for their unbelief''. What? Can a Christian who has laid his life down for God Matt 16:24, had the Holy Spirit reveal Jesus to Him 1 Cor 12:3, now have .....unbelief? Continue in His kindness?? You just lay your life down for Him. You have shown Him a depth of intent that He judged as worthy Jer 17:9-12. He then revealed Jesus to you 1 Cor 12:3. ....but yet you can make mistakes and find yourself in death. You have not thought about this properly. If someone takes a bullet for you they have shown you absolute love and should always be welcome in your house. John 15:13. There is no greater love. Even 1 million years of '''''''''continuing in kindness''''''' does not compete. God had angels in heaven '''continuing in kindness''' for many years...it did not help one third of them, did it?

The young rich man came to Jesus and asked what he must do. What did Jesus say? Continue in kindness?? No, lay down your life / IE give up his wealth.

The context of this verse and all the others like it is God / Paul and whomever else speaking to all in attendance / reading respectfully. Calling them all brethren. Not singling out those who are not. Anyone with unbelief is not a Christian. Just read 1 Cor 5. Paul says a brother is in a gross sin. He then says do not even eat with such. He then says they were not one of us. Yet he called them brethren.

 

[Bendito]

We could end all this, if you would directly answer the question...do you currently sin?

You should be asking "Do you sin habitually?" Not "Do you sin?" When we are born again we are like children. We're learning but we make mistakes...God corrects us and we learn from our mistake. On the other hand, before we were born again we made a lifestyle of sin.
As it is asked now, its a loaded question designed to shoot her down.

When God said to Paul 'my grace is sufficient for you' it was because Paul was being afflicted by a messenger from Satan to stop him from being too proud. God didnt take it away cos He wanted to allow this as a test for Pauls faith and reliance on Him alone. Despite all Pauls phariseeic qualifications to be a man of God. That is why Paul said he couldnt boast of anything but Jesus Christ..all his qualifications were but dung.

The repentent thief on the cross...was on the cross! In pain! Next to Jesus. Also he couldnt steal anything on the cross could he...but he could still witness to others that Jesus was the Son of God. From the cross!

Both Paul and this repentent thief endured and perservered. They didnt sin while relying on God's grace.

LOL When will Christians get what happened here? LOL Paul asked God to take it away and was told that Gods Empowering PRESENCE was enough for Paul to do the job. Send the thing away and God will back him up.
Lanolin Did you ever watch the movie called "The Bear"? There was a scene where the bear cub was being attacked by a cougar? Well the little guy was not going to go down without a fight. There he stood, about ten pounds of bear cub, on his hid legs waving his paws and 'roaring' at the lion. The big cat came to a screeching stop and looked. Then it turned tail and ran away! The scene moved out, and you could see the full grown bear standing behind the cub... The grown bear had the cubs back.....That's a perfect picture of "Gods empowering PRESENCE in action. You make the stand and God is right behind you enforcing your words, enforcing your stand against the enemy.....Paul came against the messenger of Satan and sent it packing with God standing right behind him, backing him up. THAT:S GRACE!!!!

 

[Clint Sorrell]

It would appear, Rant, that you are the angry one. You seem to transfer your problems to someone else and give them your rant for it. You need to be honest with yourself now, and repent. Get right with God.

True followers of Jesus should not add these sorts of replies.We are commanded in all situations to encourage,build up and pray for everyone we can. Offer prayer. Encourage this person. Rant, Jesus loves you my friend. Discouragement is from Satan. Whatever you are facing know this, Jesus died for you, if you let Him, He will help you.

 

[Clint Sorrell]

True followers of Jesus should not add these sorts of replies.We are commanded in all situations to encourage,build up and pray for everyone we can. Offer prayer. Encourage this person. Rant, Jesus loves you my friend. Discouragement is from Satan. Whatever you are facing know this, Jesus died for you, if you let Him, He will help you.

Theological mindsets help only the other mindsets like theirs. Let's keep it simple. Tell of love,mercy,grace.

 

[Bendito]

True followers of Jesus should not add these sorts of replies.We are commanded in all situations to encourage,build up and pray for everyone we can. Offer prayer. Encourage this person. Rant, Jesus loves you my friend. Discouragement is from Satan. Whatever you are facing know this, Jesus died for you, if you let Him, He will help you.

What? Not politically correct enough for you? LOL I told him the truth. That's more important than tender feelings. I'm sure glad that Jesus was not worried about being politically correct. He showed me that I was a sinner, screwing up my own life and that I needed someone to save me from myself and my buddy the devil.....um....Ex buddy

 

[Born Again 2004]

You should be asking "Do you sin habitually?" Not "Do you sin?" When we are born again we are like children. We're learning but we make mistakes...God corrects us and we learn from our mistake. On the other hand, before we were born again we made a lifestyle of sin.
As it is asked now, its a loaded question designed to shoot her down.

Not at all my friend, I think she is a Christian and not capable of purposely sinning! I personally have no idea or intention of "Shooting Her Down" ,,,,,that is a spiritually immature statement, was it meant for me to feel contrite. I wanted to open dialogue about eternal security or OSAS.

 

[Bendito]

Not at all my friend, I think she is a Christian and not capable of purposely sinning! I personally have no idea or intention of "Shooting Her Down" ,,,,,that is a spiritually immature statement, was it meant for me to feel contrite. I wanted to open dialogue about eternal security or OSAS.

Now you're judging. Spiritually immature? Really? Actually Even a Christian is able to deliberately sin. That's why we're warned against it. The Word says we don't habitually sin.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Now you're judging. Spiritually immature? Really? Actually Even a Christian is able to deliberately sin. That's why we're warned against it. The Word says we don't habitually sin.

Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this! one ! A Christian that deliberately sins is no Christian at all! How you can be "Born Again", with Christ in you and you deliberately sin? Hebrews 10: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Romans 6 :10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Hebrews 6: 4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
All this means that once you are saved, you can't continue to deliberately sin ,come to Christ and be saved from sin again, fall away and deliberately sin again and be saved again. A Christian is marked by having the perfect Christ in them, they themselves are not perfect....sin yes, deliberately sin no!

 

[Bendito]

Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on this! one ! A Christian that deliberately sins is no Christian at all! How you can be "Born Again", with Christ in you and you deliberately sin? Hebrews 10: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Romans 6 :10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. Hebrews 6: 4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
All this means that once you are saved, you can't continue to deliberately sin ,come to Christ and be saved from sin again, fall away and deliberately sin again and be saved again. A Christian is marked by having the perfect Christ in them, they themselves are not perfect....sin yes, deliberately sin no!

LOLOL Did I say that even a Christian can choose to keep on sinning? Not at all....But I did say that even a Christian can choose to do a thing that is sin. And most do once in a while. A Christian will not keep his sinful lifestyle that he lived before he died and was born again. That is what 'keep on sinning' means.

 

[amadeus2]

Very good Amadeus. We have discussed this before, but this is definitely the example you should always use. I however still do not believe this resolves my question. All go to heaven in this example. We need to amend it to.....''Well done my good and faithful servant, you followed Matt 16:24, IE you laid your life down for me, you carried your cross, you endured persecution, you gave your all....but then you started sinning and now you will be cast out for all eternity from my presence you worker of iniquity''.

Well the key really is that God is looking at people's hearts and no matter they [the people] say [e.g. I am saved] God has the final say. Anyone who's heart is right when his time is finished is saved and with the Lord.

It is shockingly surprising that anyone think they are without sin and deserve to keep their salvation more then others. They are simply missing the boat by miles. We are saved because we lay our lives down for God as He did for us. No less and no more is required. Evidence of this is following Matt 16:24, sincere repentance. God always sees the depth of intent we sank too. Now He sanctifies us / washes us clean and welcomes us into eternal life with Him. Just as we would do with a spouse we marry. Their decision to marry us showing depth of intent. Would you leave a spouse that is difficult? God never leaves nor forsakes us. We are His, because He has made us His.

While I agree with your point, not one of us normally can see another person's heart. It may well seem to us on the surface that we are right and they are wrong, but every man is right in his own eyes according to what Solomon wrote. We can teach what we do, but only God gives any real increase in this or in anything. We cannot convince another person that he is wrong... unless God is in the convincing and the potential recipient's heart is open to see and hear. So should we continue to tell those who disagree with us our position? Of course, for which of us knows when a door is open or not?

As has been said, a person who is able to still continue in mortal sins would never be sanctifed by God in the first place. God does Jer 17:9-12. We debate and discuss this subject in circles all day because we cannot do Jer 17:9-12.

People who really are saved in the moment may indeed doubt their own salvation, but the question is: What does God think about it?

 

[Lanolin]

LOL When will Christians get what happened here? LOL Paul asked God to take it away and was told that Gods Empowering PRESENCE was enough for Paul to do the job. Send the thing away and God will back him up.
Lanolin Did you ever watch the movie called "The Bear"? There was a scene where the bear cub was being attacked by a cougar? Well the little guy was not going to go down without a fight. There he stood, about ten pounds of bear cub, on his hid legs waving his paws and 'roaring' at the lion. The big cat came to a screeching stop and looked. Then it turned tail and ran away! The scene moved out, and you could see the full grown bear standing behind the cub... The grown bear had the cubs back.....That's a perfect picture of "Gods empowering PRESENCE in action. You make the stand and God is right behind you enforcing your words, enforcing your stand against the enemy.....Paul came against the messenger of Satan and sent it packing with God standing right behind him, backing him up. THAT:S GRACE!!!!

No I've never seen this movie...

Sounds like a good one.

However I have seen one about a man that got too friendly with bears and ended up being eaten. It was called 'Grizzly man'

 

[Bendito]

No I've never seen this movie...

Sounds like a good one.

However I have seen one about a man that got too friendly with bears and ended up being eaten. It was called 'Grizzly man'

Yeah He used to live just south of where I live. His daddy was a guide and naturalist. I think he had something to do with movies too.
Yeah....You can watch the movie on Youtube .....The Bear (1988)

 

[Lanolin]

Well the thing is we dont really know till their final breath where other people are with God. (And we cant always be there and tell, unlike God!) Peoples faith can be shaky and some can turn away. But we know Jesus is mighty to save if we put our trust in Him. But the thing is will we endure to the very end, or perservere, that is the question we need to ask ourselves. Are we willing to die cos only by dying can we be raised to life.

Those who seek to save their life will lose it, those that are willing to lose their lives for Jesus will save it. Luke 17:33

Hmm King J many people these days leave their spouses..showing they didnt really intend to be married..I guess the same with people who follow Jesus some did turn away and reckoned it was too hard. The bible says some disciples turned away and didnt follow Him anymore.