Christians & Demon Possession

[stijmonkey]

I say that we are not saved by works ALONE, yes salvation is instant but keeping that salvation is not

"And I disagree with you that name can be plotted out. Bible only says it will not be plotted out for Christians, not that there would be some reason to do so." I seem to be confused here what do you mean? to be recorded in the book of LIFE you must be a christian born again and given the gift if eternal LIFE, it says not everyone is recorded so if only christians can be recorded then when it says if you dont repent of sin and strive to seek him and his will then you are in danger of being blotted out it is infact talking about christians

"(46) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (47) And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes."
This does infact mention losing your salvation look at 46 talking about his servant(a christian) he will cut him in sunder and appoint him his portion with the UNBELIEVERS, he will throw them in with the unbelievers notice his choice of words there he the servant or believer will get the same portion as the unbelievers and infact if you go to 47 he will get many stripes because he knew the will but still did not do according to it, and people who never knew the will , will only get few stripes so even the servants who didnt know his will, will still be punished just not as severely

"I think doing God's will is automatic for born again... With exception of those who dont seek to know God's will." exactly if they dont seek it then they cant do it!

Gaining salvation is instant but to maintain that salvation one must repent and seek the Lord

 

[jari]

Ok stijmonkey you have your opinion and I have mine.....

I dont know what else to say because i thought we went through all the scripture posted now and I say no where it says you can lose salvation and that the scripture only talks about those people's fruit who are obedient.
You know it says those who do His will are saved but it doesnt say those who dont arent.

 

[Brother Mike]

Taken Captive...

Lioncub:

Why would God allow the enemy the power to take ownership over His temple or house ? The answer is, He doesn't !

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith.....................

Your right.. God does not allow that.... WE DO!!!! Stick with what the Word says... Focus..... Its not God that has to resist the devil.. It's not God that has to keep the devil from getting a place.. It's US!!!! Just like God told us in His Word.

By the way, I think you have a definitional problem. Since, you don't accept that a born again believer will always speak in tongues, which is a clear sign that God is present in that person's life, you are left with a serious lack of clarity about who is born again and who is not.

We already did this Thread once............................

Witness for ourselves..............
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Witness for Others
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Notice Tongues was not mentioned???? You have no scripture..... and you failed in your other post to provide any that tongues must be spoken to know if someone is born again...

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Jari:

These verses dont say the person would be controlled by the devil. It just says "snare of the devil" which has nothing do being spiritually effected because how can having bad report from those outside cause one to be inflicted by demons?

zōgreō Taken Captive...........

From the same as G2226 and G64; to take alive (make a prisoner of war), that is, (figuratively) to capture or ensnare: - take captive, catch.
Thayer:
1) to take alive
2) to take, catch, capture

Nothing in there about not knowing the truth Jari.. taken captive means Taken captive.... At Satan's will......

----------------------------------------
StijMonkey:

Awesome Scriptures rizen and Mike, you said In a very straight forward and simple manner what I've been trying to say the entire time and by simply using Scriptures that i seemed to have overlooked, I'm trying to teach and I'm still being schooled, thank you so much guys you have no idea what kind of trouble replying to these threads has kept me out of, praise Jesus and God Bless everyone here

Stick with it.. there is a Teaching anointing.. If you want to know more..just PM me...

2 Tim 2:15...... Study to show yourself approved......unto God.. You do the Work.. God will send the people...

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (comparing scripture which is truth, with other scripture which is truth.. rightly..)


Jesus Is Lord

 

[stijmonkey]

Ok stijmonkey you have your opinion and I have mine.....

I dont know what else to say because i thought we went through all the scripture posted now and I say no where it says you can lose salvation and that the scripture only talks about those people's fruit who are obedient.
You know it says those who do His will are saved but it doesnt say those who dont arent.

It seems we do have different opinions that are not easily changed lol But i fear we have gotten off of topic anyhow, i just dont see how someone being born again but still willfully sinning not repenting and not seeking the lord or his will can still be saved, i serve a Just Lord and if you once truly accepted the Lord but do all these things just as an unbeliever how can you be saved and they cannot to me that is in no way Just, and if you do all these things do you still truly believe, i dont think so, and i do think it does say that you can lose your salvation, but again different opinions and still off topic so ill leave it at that.

Just to be clear, i am not and in no way intended to judge or offend anyone. God Bless you Jari, and everyone else!

 

[lioncub]

Lioncub:
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith.....................

Your right.. God does not allow that.... WE DO!!!! Stick with what the Word says... Focus..... Its not God that has to resist the devil.. It's not God that has to keep the devil from getting a place.. It's US!!!! Just like God told us in His Word.


We already did this Thread once............................

Witness for ourselves..............
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Witness for Others
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Notice Tongues was not mentioned???? You have no scripture..... and you failed in your other post to provide any that tongues must be spoken to know if someone is born again...

As you ignore God's sign of tongues, God shall ignore you. I have received confirmation only very recently from the Spirit of God that a true born again believer cannot be possessed by the devil. If you speak against the Spirit of God, you'll be in more trouble than you can imagine !

 

[Brother Mike]

Tongues......

Lioncub

As you ignore God's sign of tongues, God shall ignore you. I have received confirmation only very recently from the Spirit of God that a true born again believer cannot be possessed by the devil. If you speak against the Spirit of God, you'll be in more trouble than you can imagine !

2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:


Lioncub, I would like to also correct you, and I strongly suggest you take heed and not be deceived... I do believe in hearing from God, you young man, need to perceive what spirit you operate under...

As you ignore God's sign of tongues, God shall ignore you.

Does this edify?? Is this going to make me go.."OH, I don't want God to ignore me... OH MY... I better change my thinking because Lioncub warned me!!! OH MY.......

NO!!! this is not the way to get anything across to anyone...

1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I also gave you scripture.............. and instead you once again chosen not to back up anything with the Word, and went off into La La land and imaginations. I Told you ... We can give place to the devil, I gave two scriptures to support that.... You need to put more importance on what the Word says, and not what you want to think.


Peter...... Who heard a voice from Heaven.... Who say Miracles.. Said... We have a more sure word of Prophecy...

Meaning no matter what "HE thought" he heard, What He saw, the Word still comes first............
Your thinking is how the Mormon Religion became started... Joseph Smith had some supernatural signs, Visited by a angel, and he feel hook, line and sinker for the Lie... He did not Check the Word of God for scriptures... Our "Thus saith the Lord's"..... must always be backed by Scripture... Always!!!!

When I hear God about a revelation..... My first Question to Him is... If your showing me this father.. I need scriptural evidence... otherwise Lord, I can't accept what I think you told me...

I had a vision... with Jesus, and everything in the Vision.... but you know... One thing in the vision bothered me..... I really thought it was from the Lord.. but at the end of the day, I had to discount it... something in the Vision did not line up with the Word...

I suggest you learn this now..... to save yourself great problems latter... If it's from God.. then there is scripture to back it...

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Jari:
zōgreō Taken Captive...........

From the same as G2226 and G64; to take alive (make a prisoner of war), that is, (figuratively) to capture or ensnare: - take captive, catch.
Thayer:
1) to take alive
2) to take, catch, capture

Nothing in there about not knowing the truth Jari.. taken captive means Taken captive.... At Satan's will......

Bro being trapped (captivated) in snare does in no mean satan possesion or influence. You have to read carefully the verses to see that the word dont logically fit in the idea of being possessed.
Snare just means some snare in life

and hence it was the report of others that could cause this.


And yes its satans will to snare ppl in anyway he can spiritual or non spiritual. those verses clearly talk about eathly methods.
Like you can see from the verses no prayer was needed to overcome these snares but only truth.

 

[Brother Mike]

Possesed......

Ok Jari.... My Brother!!!

Once again.. Possessed.. Means... controlled by the devil...

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Oppressed: katadunasteuō Exercise harsh control over. (of the devil)
Possessed: daimonizomai To be under the power of a demon.
Captive: zōgreō To take, Capture, take captive, put in prison.

All three denote some type of control by the devil.. Under the devil's power... Jesus healed all that were sick and oppressed of the devil...

Some where just sick, by the enforcement of demonic power, some crazy which the devil had take their mind....

Our problem is we have seen the Hollywood version of what possessed by the devil means... and that is not the case at all.... Head spinning around, floating in the air, blood running down the walls... all just Hollywood...

Any place we give the Devil gives the devil power in that area of our life.... Not all have to be raving lunatics to be considered possessed.

I have seen the devil manifest in others briefly .. Eyes go dark black.. tone changes... These were born again people.. meaning they gave this thing a place somewhere...

Whatever the case.. both saved and unsaved can have their life controlled by the devil... even speak things the devil wants them to speak..

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Ok Jari.... My Brother!!!

Once again.. Possessed.. Means... controlled by the devil...

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Oppressed: katadunasteuō Exercise harsh control over. (of the devil)
Possessed: daimonizomai To be under the power of a demon.
Captive: zōgreō To take, Capture, take captive, put in prison.

All three denote some type of control by the devil.. Under the devil's power... Jesus healed all that were sick and oppressed of the devil...

Some where just sick, by the enforcement of demonic power, some crazy which the devil had take their mind....

Our problem is we have seen the Hollywood version of what possessed by the devil means... and that is not the case at all.... Head spinning around, floating in the air, blood running down the walls... all just Hollywood...

Any place we give the Devil gives the devil power in that area of our life.... Not all have to be raving lunatics to be considered possessed.

I have seen the devil manifest in others briefly .. Eyes go dark black.. tone changes... These were born again people.. meaning they gave this thing a place somewhere...

Whatever the case.. both saved and unsaved can have their life controlled by the devil... even speak things the devil wants them to speak..

Jesus Is Lord.

But they are not born again and spirit filled. Im sure you dont have actualy evidence of sprit filled peoplo being possesed?

And like i have shown you the snare doesnt mean demonic things itself its just snare (some kinda problem) set by Satan.

So theres not scripture to support that born again people could be possesed.


The word snare is actually often used in bible to indicate somekind of situation:


Job 18:9 The gin shall take him by the heel, and the robber shall prevail against him.

Gin=Snare

Psa 124:7 Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.

Ecc 7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 

[Peace Seeker]

In the case of a demon-possessed person, the strong man is obviously the devil. In a Spirit-indwelt believer, however, the strong man is God. The fore of Christ's argument leads inexorably to the conclusion that, in order for demons to possess believers, they would first have to bind the one who occupies them - namely God Himself!

Thank you for sharing this, Chad, I had never thought of it that way before. The way you said it it seems so obvious. The strong man in us is God Almighty, and no one, especially not that puny ol' devil can bind Him! Therefore it makes sense to me that no Christian can be demon-possessed. I still think we can be influenced by that old serpent, the devil (and in some cases to a large degree if we let him). But when we fall short of the mark and give in to sin, we have an Advocate, a Savior that forgives and restores us to a right relationship to Him when we call upon Him. Prasied be the name of our Mighty Savior Jesus Christ!

 

[Kit Carson]

Can a demon live in one who is born again. I think not.
I was baptized in a Pentecostal church, and they were a bit fearful of me as they could not control me. I remember the preacher and a couple others evaluating me and they said......Kit you have no demons....Lol! Now I do love some mischief.......as you will find out sometimes...but this is all me.

I never have ever seen any true case of demon possession or a demon controlling any person. I have seen many imagined demons cast out of people. Where the religion preys on fear and one thing leads to another and many false things are done. I have seen that.

Maybe the words all look for would be influence. I think we can be influenced or tempted for sure.......but no demon lives in me, just a bit of mischief.

I have seen many false things. Have not yet seen a real demon inhabited person.

I have seen what I think was a demon though, but it could not harm us or bother us as we were protected. I know it scared me a lot, and I worried about that for a time, but I no longer worry about such things.....all I see is men preying on men, and leading them to their own fears and casting their own demons out.

Kit

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I don't care much for theologians brother TonyB and I'd like to quote this part from the article:



Is that not true? Yes! For sure it is, a Christian can't honor both God and the devil at the same time, it's impossible. The same way God always talked about Mammon, the same way it has barring here.

Christian = Christlike and like the article said Jesus did not have a demon inside Him.

God bless
Much love
teraside

May I point out that being demon possessed and having a demon are not the same thing.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:...

 

[Ophel]

May I point out that being demon possessed and having a demon are not the same thing.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:...

Both are equally devastating to the person. Both situations require deliverance.

 

[eddieb]

scripture also says darkness cannot dwell where there is light.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Both are equally devastating to the person. Both situations require deliverance.

Agreed but remember the difference. Fear for example is a demon. And it can kill a person spiritually (as in it can stop him from seeking LIFE) and it can kill him physically.
We have total authority over all devils to cast them out and away by our covenant with FATHER

 

[jiggyfly]

Agreed but remember the difference. Fear for example is a demon. And it can kill a person spiritually (as in it can stop him from seeking LIFE) and it can kill him physically.
We have total authority over all devils to cast them out and away by our covenant with FATHER

You have any scriptures to support your post, please don't forget that it is a forum rule.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

You have any scriptures to support your post, please don't forget that it is a forum rule.

Fear is a spirit.

2 Timothy 1:6-8 You know it’s a demonic spirit because it’s the opposite of the power and Love and a sound mind

Romans 8:14-16

Job 3:24-26 What's the end result of living like this? It WILL kill you.

 

[jiggyfly]

Fear is a spirit. [/SIZE]

2 Timothy 1:6-8 You know it’s a demonic spirit because it’s the opposite of the power and Love and a sound mind[/SIZE]

Romans 8:14-16

Job 3:24-26 What's the end result of living like this? It WILL kill you.[/SIZE]

Would you call shyness or cowardice a demonic spirit too?

 

[Ophel]

Would you call shyness or cowardice a demonic spirit too?

If it keeps a person from being all that God wants him or her to be, it becomes a stronghold, which has its origins in the enemy.

 

[jiggyfly]

If it keeps a person from being all that God wants him or her to be, it becomes a stronghold, which has its origins in the enemy.

When you say enemy are you referring to devil?
So do you think that any and everything that opposes God is of the devil?