Cults -newbie question

[Christ4Ever]

Obviously this forum has been doing nicely for quite some time long before I got here. . I appreciate the openness. That said I wonder if it might pay to ask of new members that they do not subvert the core doctrines of the faith. This can be done without requiring any sort of confession of faith. OR maybe a section dedicated to discussion of the unorthodox.

Dear Brother,
I've thought, prayed about what you have said here and even opened it as a discussion amongst the staff.
I've also looked at Talk Jesus and what it's meant over the years to different people. For me it has always been a place where believers, and those who are just seeking to know about Jesus could come, or get away from the turmoil/darkness that is found online in abundance. A place I like to call an Oasis. Lately its become a place for misfits! Adorable ones, but still ones that have been battered and bruised by not only Christendom, but the World in general. Truth to told I love them all! \o/

However, there have always been folks that have come with baggage that one could associate with cults. Normally they are easy to spot, because the purpose for them signing up here is to Evangelize others. Hoping to get a few innocents/unknowledgeable ones with some slick theological mumbo jumbo that sounds good on the surface, but once a little digging is done and it's set against the Word of God, the corruption springs forth for all to see. They have in the past battled tooth and nail to stay here, justifying whatever they are promoting even in the light of God's Word, but eventually are shown the door. Not in anger, or hate, but in prayer, and more of a disappointment that they refused the Word of God and the truth found therein which was unsatisfying to them. Preferring devil's/man's/their own truth over God's. I'm sure many have left believing the same about us, but sending them off in prayer that they might be called away from the deception they were peddling, to the only truth that can be found through Christ Jesus. This is normally the way it ends for them here at Talk Jesus.

Since you have mentioned it in your heading of this thread. I would first ask you what you mean by "cult"? Not to get too deep into this subject area, I ask this because I've come to find out that there is no one written in stone definition. Each orthodoxy sees it based off certain foundational beliefs. However, even here there are breaks to be found between many of the conservative or liberal believers. A lot is driven by which side of the aisle you happen to be sitting in! So, for Talk Jesus truth be told. Much is defined off the Statement of Faith (SOF) of the site, and the reason I direct many new members to it, so that they will have the opportunity to understand where the site is coming from, against where they feel the truth is and to provide them the opportunity to accept it's precepts, or not. Meaning, all are welcome, but not everything is accepted or will be tolerated. I get a lot of grief when I mention this, because of the belief that they have the right to sprout off any belief to their hearts content, without be called to account even if it disagrees with the SOF. This happens more often than you realize!

Anyway, a couple of us have looked at creating a separate forum for discussion of how did you put it..."the unorthodox"?
We have so far agreed that this would be more trouble than it's worth. Plus you have to admit, when have Children ever listened to directions that told them not to do this, that, or they'd be punished?
You are correct. I don't think a lot of adults and their ability to follow directions! I know! I supposedly am one!

Maybe, in some future upgrade our Brother in Christ/Administrator Chad will take it under consideration again, but as it stands now, I'd have to say no is the answer to an "Unorthodox Forum for Obliqueness" or "UFO". Sometimes my humor gets the best of me!!

I will say that your thoughts are appreciated. It's not something that we haven't thought of ourselves, but as I said "It would be more trouble than its worth at this time." Who knows? Maybe, things will change and it may yet find a place here on Talk Jesus.

Again appreciate your suggestion.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[GodB4Us]

Cant find anyone who wants your prayers eh? Cant say Im surprised.

Jesus prayed for His enemies while they were crucifying Him on the cross that God the Father would forgive them for they know what they do and they certainly were not asking Him to pray for them either. FYI

Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

 

[Hitch]

Dear Brother,
I've thought, prayed about what you have said here and even opened it as a discussion amongst the staff.
I've also looked at Talk Jesus and what it's meant over the years to different people. For me it has always been a place where believers, and those who are just seeking to know about Jesus could come, or get away from the turmoil/darkness that is found online in abundance. A place I like to call an Oasis. Lately its become a place for misfits! Adorable ones, but still ones that have been battered and bruised by not only Christendom, but the World in general. Truth to told I love them all! \o/

However, there have always been folks that have come with baggage that one could associate with cults. Normally they are easy to spot, because the purpose for them signing up here is to Evangelize others. Hoping to get a few innocents/unknowledgeable ones with some slick theological mumbo jumbo that sounds good on the surface, but once a little digging is done and it's set against the Word of God, the corruption springs forth for all to see. They have in the past battled tooth and nail to stay here, justifying whatever they are promoting even in the light of God's Word, but eventually are shown the door. Not in anger, or hate, but in prayer, and more of a disappointment that they refused the Word of God and the truth found therein which was unsatisfying to them. Preferring devil's/man's/their own truth over God's. I'm sure many have left believing the same about us, but sending them off in prayer that they might be called away from the deception they were peddling, to the only truth that can be found through Christ Jesus. This is normally the way it ends for them here at Talk Jesus.

Since you have mentioned it in your heading of this thread. I would first ask you what you mean by "cult"? Not to get too deep into this subject area, I ask this because I've come to find out that there is no one written in stone definition. Each orthodoxy sees it based off certain foundational beliefs. However, even here there are breaks to be found between many of the conservative or liberal believers. A lot is driven by which side of the aisle you happen to be sitting in! So, for Talk Jesus truth be told. Much is defined off the Statement of Faith (SOF) of the site, and the reason I direct many new members to it, so that they will have the opportunity to understand where the site is coming from, against where they feel the truth is and to provide them the opportunity to accept it's precepts, or not. Meaning, all are welcome, but not everything is accepted or will be tolerated. I get a lot of grief when I mention this, because of the belief that they have the right to sprout off any belief to their hearts content, without be called to account even if it disagrees with the SOF. This happens more often than you realize!

Anyway, a couple of us have looked at creating a separate forum for discussion of how did you put it..."the unorthodox"?
We have so far agreed that this would be more trouble than it's worth. Plus you have to admit, when have Children ever listened to directions that told them not to do this, that, or they'd be punished?
You are correct. I don't think a lot of adults and their ability to follow directions! I know! I supposedly am one!

Maybe, in some future upgrade our Brother in Christ/Administrator Chad will take it under consideration again, but as it stands now, I'd have to say no is the answer to an "Unorthodox Forum for Obliqueness" or "UFO". Sometimes my humor gets the best of me!!

I will say that your thoughts are appreciated. It's not something that we haven't thought of ourselves, but as I said "It would be more trouble than its worth at this time." Who knows? Maybe, things will change and it may yet find a place here on Talk Jesus.

Again appreciate your suggestion.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator/YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

A 'cult' as the term relates to a Christian forum may be recognized by several factors
1. They have trouble with or will flatly deny the doctrine of the Trinity.
.2 .They will refuse the deity of Jesus Christ
3. They will deny the dual natures of Fully God AND Fully human
4, They will deny/alter the plain facts associated with the virgin birth of Christ
5. They will add to or substract from the Scriptures, including the use of Christian terminology with private definitions.
6. They will deny future bodily resurrection and eternal judgement.
7. They will deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
8.. They will deny that Christ is 'the (only) Way and the Truth and the Life

This list is not exhaustive but I reckon it answers your question. Please note that none of these specifics require judgement of a personal nature but rather a template one side is orthodox the other is not. Yet it still allows for a great deal of differing views within orthodoxy. So as presented the moderator can be truthfully objective. Now the variations listed lead to all kinds of problems but I have purposely left out matters of tactics and manipulations which we all know to be commonly used. Knowing these things is valuable but not necessary to identifying cultish dogma. That said please note , at least 6 items on the list align very well with John's definition of antichrist, whom John also identified as a liar.
Since I am not a 'forum guy' I put this up as a suggestion. You are required to do your best as you see fit. You and I do not agree on the specifics, while I certainly understand it is not an easy matter to handle Jesus Talk , as I saw personally, was too often allowed to be used as a soap box for those described above as 1-8. You are doubtless aware I am not the only one with this view.
So thanks for your consideration. Why have I been coming in?? Been gathering some old posted quotes and saw some recent responses.
Take care
Hitch

 

[GodB4Us]

A 'cult' as the term relates to a Christian forum may be recognized by several factors
1. They have trouble with or will flatly deny the doctrine of the Trinity.
.2 .They will refuse the deity of Jesus Christ
3. They will deny the dual natures of Fully God AND Fully human
4, They will deny/alter the plain facts associated with the virgin birth of Christ
5. They will add to or substract from the Scriptures, including the use of Christian terminology with private definitions.
6. They will deny future bodily resurrection and eternal judgement.
7. They will deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
8.. They will deny that Christ is 'the (only) Way and the Truth and the Life

This list is not exhaustive but I reckon it answers your question. Please note that none of these specifics require judgement of a personal nature but rather a template one side is orthodox the other is not. Yet it still allows for a great deal of differing views within orthodoxy. So as presented the moderator can be truthfully objective. Now the variations listed lead to all kinds of problems but I have purposely left out matters of tactics and manipulations which we all know to be commonly used. Knowing these things is valuable but not necessary to identifying cultish dogma. That said please note , at least 6 items on the list align very well with John's definition of antichrist, whom John also identified as a liar.
Since I am not a 'forum guy' I put this up as a suggestion. You are required to do your best as you see fit. You and I do not agree on the specifics, while I certainly understand it is not an easy matter to handle Jesus Talk , as I saw personally, was too often allowed to be used as a soap box for those described above as 1-8. You are doubtless aware I am not the only one with this view.
So thanks for your consideration. Why have I been coming in?? Been gathering some old posted quotes and saw some recent responses.
Take care
Hitch

It should be pointed out that whatever teaching is considered orthodoxy, that it is assumed it is supported by scripture as plainly taught as such, and yet we are to prove all things.

I do not deny the existence of the Triune God, but obviously some are taking liberty with the Trinity doctrine in regards to co-equal when each is God but yet only the Father's will be done for why He is "God" ( The Authority ) over Jesus for why some cults come in and apply that to mean Jesus is not God as they do in wresting with other scripture. Clarity is needed about how they apply co-equal to mean.

Then you have sinners in the world that worship spirits and relate to spirits in the occult and so God the Father is only providing one way to come to Him and that is by His Son so sinners know they are departing from those spirits in coming to God the father by the Son and the churches can know that these sinners have repented of their former supernatural practices.

The American Indians dance and chant for the "Great Spirit" to come and when alcohol was introduced to them, it reminded them of what it was like to commune with the "Great Spirit". In Christianity, Christians are not heeding the apostle John's warning not to believe every spirit but test them and that is by knowing Jesus Christ is in us as opposed to feeling the presence of any spirit outside of us which is the spirit of the antichrist. 1 John 4:1-4 KJV Even if that spirit comes over the believer bringing tongues which is gibberish nonsense as found in the occult, Isaiah 8:19 KJV for why they assume it is for private use when it comes with no interpretation when in reality, it is not God's gift of tongues at all because His gifts of tongues is for God to speak unto the people. 1 Corinthians 14:21 KJV That is why that kind of supernatural tongue can be found in the occult & in the world as they speak as the world speaks in gibberish nonsense. 1 John 4:5-6 KJV

So how can God call those sinners way from those spirits and that kind of tongues? By providing the only way to come to God the Father and that is through the Son & that is Whom the Holy Spirit is always pointing to but the spirits of the antichrist would not with their visitations of signs and lying wonders. thus fulfilling wat an antichrist does as in "instead of Christ". Thanks to the Nicene creed of 381 A.D., the way has been broadened in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and this is one orthodoxy not taught nor supported by scriptures for how the Father wants us to come to Him John 14:6 & John 10:1 KJV by nor honor Him by John 5:22-23 KJV.

The Holy Spirit is God BUT He is sent to dwell in us since salvation to bear testimony of the Son thru us in John 15:26-27 KJV order to glorify the Son John 16:14 KJV and that is why there are no scripture about worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Why do I believe that is important? Because of John 10:1 KJV citing that as an offense to God by climbing up any other way and I believe that is why Jesus warned believers to strive ye to enter through that straight gate or else risk being left behind at the rapture event Luke 13:24-30 KJV & John 10:7 KJV We should heed His words & with His help, keep our eyes on the Bridegroom because He will be coming soon for the abiding bride of Christ.

Anyway, thank you for your time and whatever participation you share in this forum as I hope in the Lord to do some iron sharpening iron kind of ministry where I can learn and bear more fruit as well as seeing the Lord work in others too.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 

[Hitch]

There is something , for the sake of the lurkers I need to add to the list
Cults always contain some truth, just as the serpent challenged Eve regarding exactly what God said , not that He spoke at all

 

[GodB4Us]

There is something , for the sake of the lurkers I need to add to the list
Cults always contain some truth, just as the serpent challenged Eve regarding exactly what God said , not that He spoke at all

The way I heard a cult was defined as, it was from "Bill Rudge Ministries" that a cult will have 9 truths and slip in one lie. Essentially, as you commented, a believer can walk around having one lie or falsehood and know it not, because it was taught to them from the church or from their favorite Christian leader.

Jesus called the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25 KJV as that is also a form of excommunication by the Lord for why He is warning saved believers to be ready or else.

The scriptures in the N.T. would just weed it out as a heresy, a work of iniquity that His disciples were to correct and if after 2 or 3 witnesses and before the whole congregation, the brother did not repent, he was to be excommunicated until he does, but in the beginning, Jesus said He will get that lost sheep even when excommunicated by the church and/or by Himself at the rapture event. Matthew 18:10-17 KJV

This is why in our walk with the Lord, we may find Him pruning us even when we are fruitful, so we can bear more fruit.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

We should hope in and trust in the Lord as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us receive the pruning during our walk with Him and not be resistant to an orthodox teaching not really taught nor supported by scripture but scripture has been provided for why there are no scripture teaching to that effect or heresy, otherwise we are like those astray following the crowd in being a disciple of a church & their words rather than a disciple of Jesus Christ & His words.

As you had referred to how the devil tempted Eve by doubting what God had said exactly as relayed to her from Adam, so we should doubt the words of the church when it is not aligning with what God has said exactly in His words.

So when the church broadened the way in coming to God the Father in worship to also include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, then we should not doubt what Jesus said for He meant it exactly.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.... 7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: ......

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus meant exactly what He has said which is the will of the Father for us to do and how we are led by the Spirit of God to do and that is to come to the Father in worship by only honoring the Son because the moment we stop honoring the Son, then we are no longer honoring the Father and have gotten out of the way and become corrupt that unless we repent, are at risk of being left behind for why Jesus said this in verse 24 to avoid being left behind. Luke 13:24-30 KJV

This is what happens when focus is on the Holy Spirit which is not the Holy Spirit taking our eyes off of the Son, but the spirit of the antichrist when the real indwelling holy Spirit would keep the focus on the Son in any assembly.

You can see a comparison of the supernatural confusion that happens in Khundalini as it happens in Christian circles, and yet we are taught to prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil for God is not the author of confusion.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

That is what the ecumenical modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. did when teaching the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when it was not taught in scripture for us to do but scripture specifically told us how to worship God exactly so sinners can know they are coming to God the Father by the Son rather than by spirits or by phenomenon; hence the spirits of the antichrist.

 

[th1bill]

So you're channeling Alley Opp? or just terribly confused ?
You can answer if you like but I really dont care. This is a good place for you.

Yup! And as so many scream from the Eternal Lake of Fire I will be unable to see or hear them from Heaven. Nasty thought but true.