Does the Bible support Women Preachers? ( Debate -- Long video)

[Jesus_is_LORD]

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

According to an internet search. Please note that this is not an exhaustive list,


Several Christian denominations have come to allow women preachers:

1. Mainline Protestant denominations: Many mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the United Methodist Church (UMC), the United Church of Christ (UCC), and the African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME), ordain women on all levels
   1
   .
2. The Salvation Army: The Salvation Army has allowed the ordination of women since its beginning in 1865. Women have held leadership positions and served as preachers within the organization
   2
   .
3. The Church of the Nazarene: The Church of the Nazarene has ordained women since its foundation in 1908. At that time, a significant percentage of its ordained ministers were women
   2
   .
4. Some Lutheran denominations: The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), though more conservative than other Lutheran bodies, is beginning to allow women to preach in regular worship services
   3
   .

Denominations that Do Not Support Women Preaching:
While many Christian denominations have embraced women in leadership roles, there are still some denominations that do not allow women to serve in the role of pastor or priest. Some of the denominations that do not support women preaching include:

1. Roman Catholic Church: The Roman Catholic Church does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
2. Orthodox Church: The Orthodox Church also does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
3. Southern Baptist Convention (SBC): The Southern Baptist Convention prohibits women from serving as pastors or priests
   4
   .
4. Some Methodist denominations: Other Methodist denominations, such as the Southern Methodist Church (SMC), Evangelical Methodist Church of America, Fundamental Methodist Conference, Evangelical Wesleyan Church (EWC), and Primitive Methodist Church (PMC), do not ordain women as elders or license them as pastors or local preachers
   2
   .
5. Some conservative Protestant sects: Certain conservative Protestant sects do not allow women to serve as pastors or priests, even if they may allow them to serve in other roles
   4
   .

What is your position, not based on your feelings, but based on your interpretation of scripture
and your fellowship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

In the video it seems like both are saying that only men should be lead pastors.

The first gentlemen believes that women can preach under male leadership;
he argues God uses men and women and women can preach after they've learned.
and
The second gentlemen believes that women cannot preach at all on the church.
He believes that God has order in creation and order in the church.

 

[Hekuran]

Here's a video that outlines a positive view of women preaching and leading in the New Testament.

The main ideas

In all four gospel accounts, it is women who are first entrusted with the world changing news that Jesus is risen from the grave. This is not an accident and overhauls the male dominated culture of the day

In Romans 16 Paul greets women in all kinds of leadership positions including apostle. Possibly Phoebe is the first person ever to expound on the Letter to the Roman

He talks through the complexities of the contentious verses in 1 Timothy 2:8ff

 

[Hekuran]

One other thought. Almost all churches today put a very strong emphasis on preaching in services. In the first century the meeting appear to be far more communal - more emphasis on the assembly encouraging each other, not so much on one person at the front

 

[Charlie24]

According to an internet search. Please note that this is not an exhaustive list,


Several Christian denominations have come to allow women preachers:

1. Mainline Protestant denominations: Many mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the United Methodist Church (UMC), the United Church of Christ (UCC), and the African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME), ordain women on all levels
   1
   .
2. The Salvation Army: The Salvation Army has allowed the ordination of women since its beginning in 1865. Women have held leadership positions and served as preachers within the organization
   2
   .
3. The Church of the Nazarene: The Church of the Nazarene has ordained women since its foundation in 1908. At that time, a significant percentage of its ordained ministers were women
   2
   .
4. Some Lutheran denominations: The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), though more conservative than other Lutheran bodies, is beginning to allow women to preach in regular worship services
   3
   .

Denominations that Do Not Support Women Preaching:
While many Christian denominations have embraced women in leadership roles, there are still some denominations that do not allow women to serve in the role of pastor or priest. Some of the denominations that do not support women preaching include:

1. Roman Catholic Church: The Roman Catholic Church does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
2. Orthodox Church: The Orthodox Church also does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
3. Southern Baptist Convention (SBC): The Southern Baptist Convention prohibits women from serving as pastors or priests
   4
   .
4. Some Methodist denominations: Other Methodist denominations, such as the Southern Methodist Church (SMC), Evangelical Methodist Church of America, Fundamental Methodist Conference, Evangelical Wesleyan Church (EWC), and Primitive Methodist Church (PMC), do not ordain women as elders or license them as pastors or local preachers
   2
   .
5. Some conservative Protestant sects: Certain conservative Protestant sects do not allow women to serve as pastors or priests, even if they may allow them to serve in other roles
   4
   .

What is your position, not based on your feelings, but based on your interpretation of scripture
and your fellowship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit?

Paul gave clear and precise instructions as to the qualifications of pastors and deacons. It baffles me that any Church would consider a female as pastor.

Not that they are incapable of doing the job, it's because no where did Paul even mention a woman when giving these instructions.

"If a MAN desires the office of pastor, HE desires a good work."

"A pastor must be blameless and the HUSBAND of one wife."

"For if a MAN know not how to rule HIS own house..."

"Moreover HE must have a good report of them which are without."

There were women in the Book of Acts that opened their homes for Church services, they went out teaching others of Christ and brought them into the Church. That doesn't make them pastors or as some say, evangelists. There were women that prophesied in the Scripture, that does not make them a pastor.

The instructions of Paul must be followed to be in the will of the Lord. Paul didn't invent these instructions, everything he gave us came from Christ.

 

[Hekuran]

Paul gave clear and precise instructions as to the qualifications of pastors and deacons. It baffles me that any Church would consider a female as pastor.

Not that they are incapable of doing the job, it's because no where did Paul even mention a woman when giving these instructions.

"If a MAN desires the office of pastor, HE desires a good work."

"A pastor must be blameless and the HUSBAND of one wife."

"For if a MAN know not how to rule HIS own house..."

"Moreover HE must have a good report of them which are without."

There were women in the Book of Acts that opened their homes for Church services, they went out teaching others of Christ and brought them into the Church. That doesn't make them pastors or as some say, evangelists. There were women that prophesied in the Scripture, that does not make them a pastor.

The instructions of Paul must be followed to be in the will of the Lord. Paul didn't invent these instructions, everything he gave us came from Christ.

That's not a strong argument. First, there is no office of "pastor" in the new testament. Being a pastor is a gift.

More important, it's a kind of argument from silence. It would sound natural enough if a person said "if a man desires to be a doctor, he desires a good thing..."

It wouldn't necessarily indicate that the speaker believes only men could or should be doctors.

 

[joestue]

i'm not convinced our model of churches these days is at all what existed 1950 years ago. as such, its hard to say what should or should not be going on based on just a few scrapts of texts.

its pretty clear today that if you consider yourself to be "under the authority of a pastor" then you are regarded as being in a cult by everyone else.

biblically, a woman being in authority over a group of other families/friends/church etc.. is abnormal, but it did happen occasionally.

but just teaching sunday morning milk gospel scriptures? no problem at all!!
in my hometown, a 16 yr old girl was the first school teacher.. the only person who could read at the time, and i don't think it was much different back then.

 

[Curtis]

Psa 68:11 The Lord gives the word; the women who announce the news are a great host:

The very first preacher of the New Testament was “Mary Magdalene” who first saw the risen Lord. Jesus tells her.....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 20:18 MARY MAGDALENE CAME AND TOLD THE DISCIPLES that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

 

[First and the Last]

1 Corinthians 14:34-35, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law 35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Is understood within its historical and cultural context. We must recognize that this directive was specific to the cultural norms and issues of the Corinthian church in the first century, where disruptions and disorder during worship services were a concern. Today, we affirm the active participation of women in the church, including roles in ministry, teaching, and leadership, as evidenced by other scriptural examples where women prophesied, prayed, and played significant roles in the early church. The emphasis is on maintaining order and respect within the worship setting, aligning with the principle that God is not the author of confusion but of peace. Thus, this verse is interpreted not as a blanket prohibition against women speaking in church, but as an instruction to maintain orderly worship practices, with recognition of the valuable contributions women make in the life and ministry of the church.

 

[th1bill]

According to an internet search. Please note that this is not an exhaustive list,


Several Christian denominations have come to allow women preachers:

1. Mainline Protestant denominations: Many mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the United Methodist Church (UMC), the United Church of Christ (UCC), and the African Methodist Episcopal Church (AME), ordain women on all levels
   1
   .
2. The Salvation Army: The Salvation Army has allowed the ordination of women since its beginning in 1865. Women have held leadership positions and served as preachers within the organization
   2
   .
3. The Church of the Nazarene: The Church of the Nazarene has ordained women since its foundation in 1908. At that time, a significant percentage of its ordained ministers were women
   2
   .
4. Some Lutheran denominations: The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), though more conservative than other Lutheran bodies, is beginning to allow women to preach in regular worship services
   3
   .

Denominations that Do Not Support Women Preaching:
While many Christian denominations have embraced women in leadership roles, there are still some denominations that do not allow women to serve in the role of pastor or priest. Some of the denominations that do not support women preaching include:

1. Roman Catholic Church: The Roman Catholic Church does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
2. Orthodox Church: The Orthodox Church also does not permit the ordination of women as priests
   1
   .
3. Southern Baptist Convention (SBC): The Southern Baptist Convention prohibits women from serving as pastors or priests
   4
   .
4. Some Methodist denominations: Other Methodist denominations, such as the Southern Methodist Church (SMC), Evangelical Methodist Church of America, Fundamental Methodist Conference, Evangelical Wesleyan Church (EWC), and Primitive Methodist Church (PMC), do not ordain women as elders or license them as pastors or local preachers
   2
   .
5. Some conservative Protestant sects: Certain conservative Protestant sects do not allow women to serve as pastors or priests, even if they may allow them to serve in other roles
   4
   .

What is your position, not based on your feelings, but based on your interpretation of scripture
and your fellowship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit?

It is a question of authority and the one lady Preacher in scripture preached because no male would do so. No Church serving Yehovah will permit such ordination.

 

[Charlie24]

That's not a strong argument. First, there is no office of "pastor" in the new testament. Being a pastor is a gift.

More important, it's a kind of argument from silence. It would sound natural enough if a person said "if a man desires to be a doctor, he desires a good thing..."

It wouldn't necessarily indicate that the speaker believes only men could or should be doctors.

I think Paul made it very clear when he said let a woman learn in silence and not teach nor have authority over a man.

It seems there are some Churches today who will obey Paul's instructions until they disagree.

Then they just conveniently ignore what he said.

 

[Hekuran]

It is a question of authority and the one lady Preacher in scripture preached because no male would do so. No Church serving Yehovah will permit such ordination.

Who is one lady do you have in mind?

Lydia?
Phoebe?
Priscilla?
Nympha?
Junia?
Euodia?
Syntyche?
Chloe?
Mary/Miriam?

 

[joestue]

without the questions paul was responding to in his letter written back to the church, we cannot interpret what he said.

 

[Sue D.]

Why not. It's written in plain English.

 

[joestue]

Why not. It's written in plain English.

because we don't know if it applies to us or not, and in what context?

hence the continual disagreements about women's hair length, etc..

 

[Rockerduck]

because we don't know if it applies to us or not, and in what context?

hence the continual disagreements about women's hair length, etc..

Jesus chose Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, who are us. Only the Apostles were given authority to set Church doctrine. It was Paul who explained the body of Christ, the age of Grace, etc.. We quote Paul from his doctrines example (For by Grace you a saved). It is the Apostle Paul's doctrine whereby the Church operates. Pastors, preachers, bishops, etc. Do not pick and choose your verses. The Apostle Paul made it clear that women are not to Pastor a church.

 

[joestue]

Pastor a church.

and in the prior comment i said that if anyone today declares themselves to be under the authoirty of a pastor (which is sort of how paul uses his justification for supporting his opinion) --then you would be considered to be in a cult by most christians.

so with regard to sunday school sermons.. if you don't consider yourself under the authority of the pastor, what does it matter if its a man or a woman? eat the meat spit out the bones as they say...

 

[joestue]

It was Paul who explained the body of Christ, the age of Grace, etc.. We quote Paul from his doctrines example (For by Grace you a saved)

the age of grace, in my experience, is taught by people who preach that after the rapture, mankind will live back under the law again, after Jesus returns to rule over the nations with an iron fist. (quoting the psalms there i believe)

it was always by grace that everyone, even those prior to noah, were saved. you don't need paul to figure this out.

the age of the law, was only for the jews anyways, the gentiles only had to abide by the noahide laws which are supposedly the 7 commandments given to noah to preach, which are a good read, they are pretty much common sense.

what makes me believe the noahide laws are in fact original is this one:
"Do not eat of a live animal (no eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive)"

this would be from around the time mankind learned out to tame fire and make knives...

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I think many by now are familiar with both sides of the argument. So I won't share that any of those perspectives in this post ( I may later).

Ultimately we need the Holy Spirit to help us interpret the Scriptures. Some things are pretty clear, (do not commit adultery), and other things
require a bit more study and wisdom. In the end, on many of these debated issues, I think a strong personal relationship with God helps as the Holy
Spirit will lead us into all truth.

[[[---------------------------------------------​

John 16:12-15 New International Version (NIV)​

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth
. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it
is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine.
That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

---------------------------------------------]]]​

I can't speak for how God communicates to anyone else but for me and my family, I'll share that God often speaks to me in dreams.
Prior to coming to this country from Liberia, West Africa in 1980, God sent a dream to my mother about the war, prior to the war starting.
On a dream we obeyed and fled the country (before the war started) and we were saved.

God has sent my mother dreams when I was a child, doing certain things I wasn't suppose to do, and she confronted me because God had revealed
it to me in a dream.

God also directed me to the job that I'm at now, through a dream, and I started writing a dream journal in 2014 to better study my dreams.
I will often ask God to reveal certain things to me in dreams and that night the Lord sends me an answer, mostly that very same night.

With that said, I recently just left the United Methodist Church (where I was Pastoring) because they are now allowing same-sex marriages. I was praying for
God's timing, and after the General Conference God directed me that now was the time to step away, even though some of those changes
won't go into affect until next year.

I say all this to say that this week I asked God to send me a dream about this issue and what was his position.
I received a dream, and in the dream it was myself and two female members of the church, non of which were Pastors
but both has roles of educating and at times preaching a sermon from the pulpit. My interpretation of my dream
was that the Pastor was to be a man exercising authority in the church as scripture prescribe, yet women can be
gifted to carry out such task under the guidance of a male pastor.

Obviously this was my personal dream and I'm not putting it on anyone as I don't know where each person's personal relationship
with God is. But for me, I know how God speaks to me and has spoke to my family since I was 8 years old. So this is what I'm receiving
as the answer to my question combined with my personal study and reading all your replies.