Does the Bible support Women Preachers? ( Debate -- Long video)

[Rockerduck]

I think many by now are familiar with both sides of the argument. So I won't share that any of those perspectives in this post ( I may later).

Ultimately we need the Holy Spirit to help us interpret the Scriptures. Some things are pretty clear, (do not commit adultery), and other things
require a bit more study and wisdom. In the end, on many of these debated issues, I think a strong personal relationship with God helps as the Holy
Spirit will lead us into all truth.

[[[---------------------------------------------​

John 16:12-15 New International Version (NIV)​

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth
. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it
is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine.
That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

---------------------------------------------]]]​

I can't speak for how God communicates to anyone else but for me and my family, I'll share that God often speaks to me in dreams.
Prior to coming to this country from Liberia, West Africa in 1980, God sent a dream to my mother about the war, prior to the war starting.
On a dream we obeyed and fled the country (before the war started) and we were saved.

God has sent my mother dreams when I was a child, doing certain things I wasn't suppose to do, and she confronted me because God had revealed
it to me in a dream.

God also directed me to the job that I'm at now, through a dream, and I started writing a dream journal in 2014 to better study my dreams.
I will often ask God to reveal certain things to me in dreams and that night the Lord sends me an answer, mostly that very same night.

With that said, I recently just left the United Methodist Church (where I was Pastoring) because they are now allowing same-sex marriages. I was praying for
God's timing, and after the General Conference God directed me that now was the time to step away, even though some of those changes
won't go into affect until next year.

I say all this to say that this week I asked God to send me a dream about this issue and what was his position.
I received a dream, and in the dream it was myself and two female members of the church, non of which were Pastors
but both has roles of educating and at times preaching a sermon from the pulpit. My interpretation of my dream
was that the Pastor was to be a man exercising authority in the church as scripture prescribe, yet women can be
gifted to carry out such task under the guidance of a male pastor.

Obviously this was my personal dream and I'm not putting it on anyone as I don't know where each person's personal relationship
with God is. But for me, I know how God speaks to me and has spoke to my family since I was 8 years old. So this is what I'm receiving
as the answer to my question combined with my personal study and reading all your replies.

I was a lay minister in the Methodist Church too, and I had a dream to leave in a flash. It was over the gay clergy and women preachers.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

It is unfortunate that if you study Church history, many of the biggest errors haven't been due to people ignoring scriptures
but because people were wrongly interpreting scriptures and were being too literal or rigid in their interpretation - leaving no
or little room for the Spirit of God to lead them into truth.



Example:

(1) The Pharisees were in error when they were interpreting Scriptures very rigidly and missed the fact that Jesus was indeed the Son of God.
They were quoting scripture which said that before the Messiah would come, Elijah would return.

" d“Behold, I will send you eElijah the prophet fbefore the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. 6 And he will gturn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and hstrike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”3" Malachi 4:5–6​

So for this reason (what was plainly written in scripture, they missed the truth and missed the Messiah and what God was doing. Jesus later helped them interpret the scriptures and told them
that what the scriptures meant was that one would come in the "spirit" and power of Elijah, that one was indeed John the Baptist.
(2) The lady at the well, interpreted scriptures in error because she thought that as Scriptures had said, they must worship in Jerusalem, but Jesus came and told them that
true worshipers would now worship in Spirit and in truth.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. -John 4:23-24

(3) Jesus' Teaching on the Sabbath: Throughout the Gospels, Jesus challenges the strict Sabbath observance of the Pharisees. He performs miracles and heals on the Sabbath, which was considered work and thus forbidden. Jesus' actions were not meant to undermine the importance of the Sabbath but to emphasize the spirit behind the law, promoting compassion and healing over legalistic adherence.

(4) The sermon on the Mount, Jesus tells them repeated, "You have heard it said " but I say you....... Many were lost because they were rigid in how they were
interpreting the scriptures, forgetting that the Scriptures are "God" breathed. They are active and you need the Holy Spirit to interpret them. And ultimately the Scriptures are to point us to
the person of Jesus.

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
-Matthew 5:38-42


I hold scriptures in High esteem and I am in noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo way saying that scriptures have any error, nor am I saying that they contradict themselves.
I believe that this world is messed up because many things are out of order, from GOd's order. However I believe that we should remember that in church history, most of those who missed
Jesus when he encountered them weren't those who didn't believe the Scriptures, but those who were not filled with the Spirit of God or close enough to God to receive the full revelation.

I pray that all my brothers and sisters in Christ will receive all of God's revelation as we all draw closer to Jesus.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I was a lay minister in the Methodist Church too, and I had a dream to leave in a flash. It was over the gay clergy and women preachers.

Yes, I received from my dream that same about women not being part of God's design to be preachers, although being able to bring the word under the authority of a man.

Obviously with the gay clergy, I didn't need a dream for that, that was just clear that homo-sexuality is a plain sin.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I think God in His wisdom reveals truth no simply to one who can study the scripture in a scholarly manner (although that is important and I do it ALL the time),
but even more to those who humble themselves, repent of their sins, and in a low posture position themselves to receive the revelation of the WORD.

Jesus revealed Himself to the lowly fishermen, not the scholars in the temple,
Jesus revealed Himself first after the crucifixion to the lowly women not to the Peter who in pride said he would NEVER leave him,
God revealed Himself to Moses ( a murder, a fugitive) in a burning bush, not to the elites in Pharaoh's court.
God revealed the law through Moses, not through a legal expert.
God revealed the truth of Jesus to the lowly nation of Israel, not the mighty and powerful Philistines.

God chose Mary a lowly virgin, innocent, to reveal the WORD of God, Jesus to the world, not a elite in a high social class and powerful in the church.

I say this to say that our relationship with God is one of TRUTH. But this relationship comes through Faith, and in Faith (we believe) God reveals
to us the TRUTH. Yet time and time and time and time and time again, God's truth comes to those who will humble themselves, not seeking
themselves as wise in their own eyes, but seeing themselves as but men, as but clay, ready to receive God's divine truth.

The lower I find myself going in my posture towards Christ, the higher I find myself in His inner secret place of TRUTH.
It is beautiful.

 

[MedicBravo]

People will disagree b/c "some" have cherry picked to say they can and can do ANYTHING in the church but men can NOT.
Wanna know why women generally, almost all women NEVER choose where to eat? Look what happened the first time.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

People will disagree b/c "some" have cherry picked to say they can and can do ANYTHING in the church but men can NOT.
Wanna know why women generally, almost all women NEVER choose where to eat? Look what happened the first time.

Although I agree that the Bible states that men should be in the role of Pastor. I think that we should
exercise great Love and Grace in our speech so that it doesn't come across that we are saying that women
are a type of 2nd class citizens in the body of Christ.

Yes, God has order and the man is the head of the family, and should be the head of the church.
Yet this headship is about order for God's functions, not because of a lack of abilities but because
the abilities of men and women are best suited in certain roles.

For example, the role of being a mother is of great importance. The role of bring forth life (child birth)
is of great importance. Women are blessed to bring forth life and are designed to be better nurturers.

So yes, I think God made us different for a reason, yet men should communicate this difference in love
and not in a sense that makes it seem like women are less than or inferior.

I'm afraid that the tone of you recent message my dear brother in Christ, may have missed the mark
on love, and perhaps you could try again.

 

[joestue]

before the Messiah would come, Elijah would return.

some people have said i remind them of jeremiah specifically. not because they think i'm a legit prophet, but they can see the personality traits that are present in all the biblical characters. my brother for example is more of a david than me. he'd probably have 18 wives if he could. (i'm somewhat joking)

Jesus seems to hint at a "personality type" is a fulfillment of the prophecy rather than a legit, re-incarnation of the person.. which implies that the folks he was talking to.. knew this but not everyone would hear it... they wanted a re-incarnation of their God.. not much different than trump or biden or putin supporters wanting their former nation's glory back.

if you study the essenes and john the baptist, you'll find he was the fulfillment of "Elijah to come" and the folks that jeremiah was sent to test, the Rechabites.

I'm afraid that the tone of you recent message my dear brother in Christ, may have missed the mark
on love, and perhaps you could try again.

you said it much nicer than i would have.

 

[MedicBravo]

"we are saying that women are a type of 2nd class citizens in the body of Christ." - The problem is when people, too many people have that default way of thinking.
That's NOT the message being given at all.
Women can teach children, even all boys and no one says anything. Have a man of ANY age teach an all girls/women class in anything and people lose their sanity.
God set the rules and roles from the start and Adam and Eve got what the deserved. Don't like it?
Take it up with God.
You either say "Yes, Lord." to ALL He has said or you're not a good Christian are you?
By what authority does any Christian have to question or change God? None.

 

[Curtis]

In the New Testament, we have the “prophetess Anna” who lived during the time of Jesus. She would prophecy every day to all who would come unto the temple, and she did this day and night!! (Luke 2:36-38)

Luk 2:36 And there was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old, having lived with her husband seven years from her maidenhood, [Jos_19:24]
Luk 2:37 And as a widow even for eighty-four years. She did not go out from the temple enclosure, but was worshiping night and day with fasting and prayer.
Luk 2:38 And she too came up at that same hour, and she returned thanks to God and talked of [Jesus] to all who were looking for the redemption (deliverance) of Jerusalem. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

1Co 14:34 LET YOUR WOMEN KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCHES: FOR IT IS NOT PERMITTED UNTO THEM TO SPEAK; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In the Greek language there is no word for “WIFE” so it used the word “WOMEN”. If we read the very next verse we find out who the Apostle Paul was referring to was not “WOMEN” but “WIFES”!!! verse 35:

1 Cor 14:35 And if they (WIFES) will learn anything, let them ask their HUSBANDS at home: for it is a shame for women (WIFES) to speak in the church.

It is pretty annoying for anyone whether it be a husband or wife to speak when a Church service is going on.

 

[Curtis]

1Ti 2:11 LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH ALL SUBJECTION.
1Ti 2:12 BUT I SUFFER NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR TO USURP AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Here again we find Paul is NOT talking about all women, he is talking about “WIFES”, and “HUSBANDS” which is why he mentions Adam, and Eve who were husband and wife!! Man is the head of his wife, but only in a “MARRIAGE” CONTRACT!!! I am a man, but I am not the head of any other women except for my wife!! I am surely not the head of any other man's wife, as that would cause a lot of bad feelings and fights among the Church members.

If a “HUSBAND” does not take his God given right to be the head of his family in marriage, I can tell you for sure the “WIFE” will step up to the plate and take on that responsibility herself, and I don't blame her, neither does God. Man is only the head of his wife in “marriage”, but he is not the head of his wife in Christ!!! There is no “MALE” or “FEMALE” in the Lord!!! (Gal 3:28) Christ is the head of the women in the same way Christ is the head of the man in the Lord!! It was very common during the days of Jesus, that women were much less educated than men, but today we do not have that problem as all men and women are equally educated.

 

[MedicBravo]

Prophetess is not the same as Pastor/Preacher/Priest who teaches in the church.
Some of you need to stop with that argument.

 

[MedicBravo]

1Ti 2:11 LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH ALL SUBJECTION.
1Ti 2:12 BUT I SUFFER NOT A WOMAN TO TEACH, NOR TO USURP AUTHORITY OVER THE MAN, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Here again we find Paul is NOT talking about all women, he is talking about “WIFES”, and “HUSBANDS” which is why he mentions Adam, and Eve who were husband and wife!! Man is the head of his wife, but only in a “MARRIAGE” CONTRACT!!! I am a man, but I am not the head of any other women except for my wife!! I am surely not the head of any other man's wife, as that would cause a lot of bad feelings and fights among the Church members.

If a “HUSBAND” does not take his God given right to be the head of his family in marriage, I can tell you for sure the “WIFE” will step up to the plate and take on that responsibility herself, and I don't blame her, neither does God. Man is only the head of his wife in “marriage”, but he is not the head of his wife in Christ!!! There is no “MALE” or “FEMALE” in the Lord!!! (Gal 3:28) Christ is the head of the women in the same way Christ is the head of the man in the Lord!! It was very common during the days of Jesus, that women were much less educated than men, but today we do not have that problem as all men and women are equally educated.

No, they're not. No one is "equally educated" in anything.
No two people have the same exact education from K-12 and higher.
No two people get the same experience out of anything.
Men and women do NOT think alike.

No.
You even prove here the order of things: God - Man - Woman.
Women can NOT do everything especially in the church.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

"we are saying that women are a type of 2nd class citizens in the body of Christ." - The problem is when people, too many people have that default way of thinking.
That's NOT the message being given at all.
Women can teach children, even all boys and no one says anything. Have a man of ANY age teach an all girls/women class in anything and people lose their sanity.
God set the rules and roles from the start and Adam and Eve got what the deserved. Don't like it?
Take it up with God.
You either say "Yes, Lord." to ALL He has said or you're not a good Christian are you?
By what authority does any Christian have to question or change God? None.

I wasn't arguing with your position, I was seeing if you felt that the delivery could be polished.

But if the Fruit of Gentleness has not yet been cultivated within you, no worries, continue as you were.
I'll keep that in prayer as life is a process and God can bring it to completion.

Stay wonderfully blessed.

 

[MedicBravo]

I wasn't arguing with your position, I was seeing if you felt that the delivery could be polished.

But if the Fruit of Gentleness has not yet been cultivated within you, no worries, continue as you were.
I'll keep that in prayer as life is a process and God can bring it to completion.

Stay wonderfully blessed.

I was clarifying.
So many are already biased against this and default to "God and Christians are misogynists." when by His Nature He is anything but.
Being a Christian is largely about being humble.
A good Christian man or woman will say "Yes, Lord." even when they feel conflicted.
He knows best. We do not and all of human history has proven it.

 

[joestue]

prophets are above teachers, and there have been plenty of female both of them. but, as for whether or not they are really "in authority over men".. that's up to God to enforce. paul has his opinions, which are not always backed up by his own actions. he had female apostles he commends...

one speaks the words of God.
the other interprets and teaches, all the thousands of details. but they are not entrusted with some of the really scary **** prophets have to deal with and think about.

 

[joestue]

In the New Testament, we have the “prophetess Anna” who lived during the time of Jesus. She would prophecy every day to all who would come unto the temple, and she did this day and night!! (Luke 2:36-38)

Luk 2:36 And there was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old, having lived with her husband seven years from her maidenhood, [Jos_19:24]
Luk 2:37 And as a widow even for eighty-four years. She did not go out from the temple enclosure, but was worshiping night and day with fasting and prayer.
Luk 2:38 And she too came up at that same hour, and she returned thanks to God and talked of [Jesus] to all who were looking for the redemption (deliverance) of Jerusalem. (AMP)

we can barely wash the feet of some of these folks. i just wish people would read their bible more.

 

[MedicBravo]

prophets are above teachers, and there have been plenty of female both of them. but, as for whether or not they are really "in authority over men".. that's up to God to enforce. paul has his opinions, which are not always backed up by his own actions. he had female apostles he commends...

one speaks the words of God.
the other interprets and teaches, all the thousands of details. but they are not entrusted with some of the really scary **** prophets have to deal with and think about.

Suggesting women can teach men in this shows hypocrisy in God and the Bible.
Both sexes MUST accept their God given role or not.
Christians don't tell God "I think this way is better."

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Did you know that the first ones to preach the good news were women? "He is risen!!"

 

[joestue]

Did you know that the first ones to preach the good news were women? "He is risen!!"

junia was a woman.