Does the Bible support Women Preachers? ( Debate -- Long video)

[Charlie24]

If we don't need prophets then we also don't need pastors, teachers, evangelists, or apostles either.

I don't know of a prophet, never seen one! I've seen teachers, evangelists, and pastors, but never a prophet.

I have the full cannon of Scripture, why do I need someone to foretell anything?

 

[Charlie24]

I don't know of a prophet, never seen one! I've seen apostles, teachers, evangelists, and pastors, but never a prophet.

I have the full cannon of Scripture, why do I need someone to foretell anything?

I take that back! Add the apostles to the never before seen list.

I scratched it from the post.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis, we totally disagree on what a prophet is. A prophet is not a pastor, it's one of the 9 gifts apart from the office of pastor.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

A prophet is a "ministry" gift given to the Church by God. The Fivefold ministry gifts which include "prophets" (male, or female) will NEVER pass away until the Church comes into the unity of Christ unto a mature man.

If you do to have any prophet(s) in your Church then you are handicapped in fulfilling the purpose for which God's intended design.

 

[Curtis]

I don't know of a prophet, never seen one! I've seen teachers, evangelists, and pastors, but never a prophet.

I have the full cannon of Scripture, why do I need someone to foretell anything?

You can not see what you do not believe!

Prophet:

1Co 14:3 But [on the other hand], the one who prophesies [who interprets the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching] speaks to men for their upbuilding and constructive spiritual progress and encouragement and consolation.

 

[Charlie24]

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

A prophet is a "ministry" gift given to the Church by God. The Fivefold ministry gifts which include "prophets" (male, or female) will NEVER pass away until the Church comes into the unity of Christ unto a mature man.

If you do to have any prophet(s) in your Church then you are handicapped in fulfilling the purpose for which God's intended design.

God's intended design is written in His Word, Curtis. i don't need a prophet to foretell that to me.

 

[Curtis]

God's intended design is written in His Word, Curtis. i don't need a prophet to foretell that to me.

1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

 

[Charlie24]

You can not see what you do not believe!

Prophet:

1Co 14:3 But [on the other hand], the one who prophesies [who interprets the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching] speaks to men for their upbuilding and constructive spiritual progress and encouragement and consolation.

That's not what the KJV says.

1 Cor. 14"3

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

This is one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit, Curtis. A prophet is not a preacher.

 

[Charlie24]

1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

And Paul said that some of the gifts would cease.

 

[Curtis]

Paul said that some of the gifts would cease.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This is what Paul said about how long the fivefold ministry would last.

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Has this happened yet?

 

[Charlie24]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

This is what Paul said about how long the fivefold ministry would last.

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Has this happened yet?

That is not what Paul said! Why do you do this?

1 Cor. 13:8-10
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

The Pentecostals say "when that which is perfect is come" is the resurrection and the gifts will cease then.

The fundamentalist's say it's when the circulation of the full cannon of Scripture took effect and those gifts have already ceased.

 

[MedicBravo]

Curtis, we totally disagree on what a prophet is. A prophet is not a pastor, it's one of the 9 gifts apart from the office of pastor.

A prophet that gives prophecies is one who foretells, not one who preaches.

We will also disagree on whether all the gifts are still in effect.

That's what I've been saying and typing online all along.
Check anything by God and the Bible and if it doesn't line up. then it is NOT so.
Prophesy is NOT the same and last I checked the Bible is done being written.
It's all happened but Revelation and given the state of the world, the End Times started long ago.

 

[B-A-C]

Qualifications for Overseers

1Tim 3:1; It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires to do.
1Tim 3:2; An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Tim 3:3; not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.
1Tim 3:4; He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity
1Tim 3:5; (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
1Tim 3:6; and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil.
1Tim 3:7; And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

It would seem that overseers, ( head pastors ) should be men.

Qualifications for Deacons

1Tim 3:8; Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
1Tim 3:9; but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Tim 3:10; These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.
1Tim 3:11; Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
1Tim 3:12; Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
1Tim 3:13; For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

But it seems women can be deacons. ( It is debatable if the "husbands" part applies for women )

Eph 4:11; And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12; for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
Eph 4:13; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

G4166
ποιμήν
poimēn
poy-mane'
Of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively): - shepherd, pastor.
Total KJV occurrences: 18

John 21:16; He *said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" He *said to Him, "Yes, Lord; You know that I love You." He *said to him, "Shepherd My sheep."

Acts 20:28; "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
Acts 20:29; "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
Acts 20:30; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

1Pet 5:1; Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
1Pet 5:2; shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
1Pet 5:3; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock.

The same Greek word for "Pastors" in Eph 4:11 is the same word translated as "shepherd" in the verses above.

Men can hold multiple offices at the same time. Paul himself held three of these.

1Tim 2:7; For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim 1:11; for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

 

[B-A-C]

1 Timothy 3:11
(AMPC) [The] women likewise must be worthy of respect and serious, not gossipers, but temperate and self-controlled, [thoroughly] trustworthy in all things.
(AMPC+) N1[The] women likewise must be worthy of respect and serious, not gossipers, but temperate and self-controlled, [thoroughly] trustworthy in all things.
(ASV) Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(BSB) In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things.
(CSB) Wives, likewise, should be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.
(ESV) Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
(ESV+) R15Their wives likewiseN1 must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, R16faithful in all things.
(Greek NT BYZ+) γυναικαςG1135 N-APF ωσαυτωςG5615 ADV σεμναςG4586 A-APF μηG3361 PRT-N διαβολουςG1228 A-APF νηφαλεουςG3524 A-APM πισταςG4103 A-APF ενG1722 PREP πασινG3956 A-DPN
(HCSB) Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.
(ISV) Their wives must also be serious. They must not be gossips, but instead be stable and trustworthy in everything.
(KJV) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
(KJV+) Even soG5615 must their wivesG1135 be grave,G4586 notG3361 slanderers,G1228 sober,G3524 faithfulG4103 inG1722 all things.G3956
(MKJV) Even so their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS77) Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS95) Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS95+) N1WomenG1135 must likewiseG5615 be dignifiedG4586, R1not maliciousG1228 gossipsG1228, but R2temperateG3524, faithfulG4103 in allG3956 thingsG3956.
(NIrV) In the same way, their wives must be worthy of respect. They must not say things that harm others. In anything they do, they must not go too far. They must be worthy of trust in everything.
(NIV) In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
(NKJV) Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(NLT) In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
(RV) Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

Some translations simply say "women", but most say "their wives". Which changes the context a little. So which is it? Women or their wives?

(Greek NT BYZ+) γυναικαςG1135 N-APF ωσαυτωςG5615 ADV σεμναςG4586 A-APF μηG3361 PRT-N διαβολουςG1228 A-APF νηφαλεουςG3524 A-APM πισταςG4103 A-APF ενG1722 PREP πασινG3956 A-DPN

γυνή
gunē
goo-nay'
Probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specifically a wife: - wife, woman.
Total KJV occurrences: 221

So then, it would seem maybe women can not be deacons after all, but rather deacons must have Goldy wives.

 

[MedicBravo]

1 Timothy 3:11
(AMPC) [The] women likewise must be worthy of respect and serious, not gossipers, but temperate and self-controlled, [thoroughly] trustworthy in all things.
(AMPC+) N1[The] women likewise must be worthy of respect and serious, not gossipers, but temperate and self-controlled, [thoroughly] trustworthy in all things.
(ASV) Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(BSB) In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things.
(CSB) Wives, likewise, should be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.
(ESV) Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
(ESV+) R15Their wives likewiseN1 must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, R16faithful in all things.
(Greek NT BYZ+) γυναικαςG1135 N-APF ωσαυτωςG5615 ADV σεμναςG4586 A-APF μηG3361 PRT-N διαβολουςG1228 A-APF νηφαλεουςG3524 A-APM πισταςG4103 A-APF ενG1722 PREP πασινG3956 A-DPN
(HCSB) Wives, too, must be worthy of respect, not slanderers, self-controlled, faithful in everything.
(ISV) Their wives must also be serious. They must not be gossips, but instead be stable and trustworthy in everything.
(KJV) Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
(KJV+) Even soG5615 must their wivesG1135 be grave,G4586 notG3361 slanderers,G1228 sober,G3524 faithfulG4103 inG1722 all things.G3956
(MKJV) Even so their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS77) Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS95) Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
(NAS95+) N1WomenG1135 must likewiseG5615 be dignifiedG4586, R1not maliciousG1228 gossipsG1228, but R2temperateG3524, faithfulG4103 in allG3956 thingsG3956.
(NIrV) In the same way, their wives must be worthy of respect. They must not say things that harm others. In anything they do, they must not go too far. They must be worthy of trust in everything.
(NIV) In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
(NKJV) Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
(NLT) In the same way, their wives must be respected and must not slander others. They must exercise self-control and be faithful in everything they do.
(RV) Women in like manner must be grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

Some translations simply say "women", but most say "their wives". Which changes the context a little. So which is it? Women or their wives?

(Greek NT BYZ+) γυναικαςG1135 N-APF ωσαυτωςG5615 ADV σεμναςG4586 A-APF μηG3361 PRT-N διαβολουςG1228 A-APF νηφαλεουςG3524 A-APM πισταςG4103 A-APF ενG1722 PREP πασινG3956 A-DPN

γυνή
gunē
goo-nay'
Probably from the base of G1096; a woman; specifically a wife: - wife, woman.
Total KJV occurrences: 221

So then, it would seem maybe women can not be deacons after all, but rather deacons must have Goldy wives.

Agreed.
If God truly places a man as the Overseer of a church then his wife must be similar; God centered and trusting her husband in the same.

 

[MedicBravo]

You can not see what you do not believe!

Prophet:

1Co 14:3 But [on the other hand], the one who prophesies [who interprets the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching] speaks to men for their upbuilding and constructive spiritual progress and encouragement and consolation.

The Bible is CLOSED people.
There is no new info/revelation for humanity.
Anywho who says "God told me..." and "gives new info is not talking to God.

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible is CLOSED people.
There is no new info/revelation for humanity.
Anywho who says "God told me..." and "gives new info is not talking to God.

Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

Now while I agree there is nothing that needs to be added to the Bible, is it necessarily true that God doesn't need to reveal anything else to men?
Has God never told you to do something or not to do something? Does God no longer speak to men? Does He no longer reveal things to us?

Also, while nothing needs to be added to the Bible, sometimes God uses other people to tell us things and verify things when we are unsure, or not listening.
About 13 years ago someone in church told me I would lose my job, I just kind of laughed it off, and didn't pay much attention.
A few weeks later, a number of us were laid off. Coincidence? maybe. ( Are there any coincidences? )
For the next few weeks, I was looking for work in the area, but it was unusually hard for me to find a job during that time. I usually find work in a day or two.
We went to another church the next Sunday because we were visiting friends. The sermon that Sunday was about God telling Abraham to go to foreign land where he didn't know anyone.
The Sunday after that, we went back to our "regular" church. Guess what the sermon was about. These were two different churches hundreds of miles apart, the pastors didn't know each other,
one of them didn't even know me, or the fact that I was out of work. There was no reason for them to preach practically the same sermon. Someone in the church ( a godly I knew well ) mentioned
maybe I should be like Abraham and go to another place for a while. I still wasn't convinced, but it got me thinking, and I started praying about it. The next day was Monday, I got four job offers
all from the same town a few hundred miles away. I still wasn't convinced, but I went for some interviews, and since I was there anyway, I visited a church there, it was a Wednesday night service.
Guess what the sermon was about. Again this pastor didn't know me, or my situation, or the other two pastors at all. What are the odds? I went up and had some elders pray for my situation
after the service. The next day I was offered a job with a significant income raise.

Now there wasn't some weirdo in a robe, carrying around sign saying "The end is near, you must repent". None of the pastors told me they were speaking directly to me. ( Two of them didn't even know me )
They might not have even known the message was for me. But it was. God was speaking to me through people.

This had nothing to do with adding scripture to the Bible, but it was God revealing His plan and purpose to me, through other people. Sometimes that's all prophecy is.

 

[B-A-C]

deacons must have Goldy wives

"goldy"? I meant Godly. But in the case of some televangelists...

 

[Curtis]

A prophet is a ministry gift given by God to the Church. No one can make himself a prophet or call himself to be a prophet. God alone calls and set prophets in the Church. There is an anointing on that office and the spiritual equipment of the Holy Spirit which enable a person to fulfill that function to the Body of Christ. However, some folks get off-course doctrinally by thinking that a prophet’s only function is to prophesy to people. That is only a small part of his ministry. First and Foremost — A Preacher or Teacher of the Word Actually, a prophet’s primary purpose and main ministry is to preach or teach the Word, or to be both a teacher and a preacher of the Word. Prophesying is not the main thrust of the prophet’s ministry. Even the prophets of the Old Testament were first preachers. They were constantly preaching to the people and calling them to repentance, because much of the time the Israelites were backslidden and out of God’s will. So the prophets spoke to the people in behalf of God by prophetic inspiration. Of course, you understand that under the New Testament, prophets aren’t the only preachers or teachers of the Word.
The foremost ministry of any of the ministry gifts is to preach or to teach.


Even as a prophet, Jesus’ ministry consisted, first, of teaching. Second, preaching. And third, healing. Anyone who is called to the fivefold ministry — apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher — is first called to preach or to teach the gospel. To “preach” means to proclaim or to tell. To “teach” means to expound or to explain. Therefore, the ministry gifts are preachers or teachers because they either proclaim or explain the gospel in one respect or another. Their main function is to preach or teach the Word of God because that matures the saints and equips them for service. Is the prophet supposed to prophesy? Yes, but that is not his main ministry.

1Co 14:3 But [on the other hand], the one who prophesies [who interprets the divine will and purpose in inspired preaching and teaching] speaks to men for their upbuilding and constructive spiritual progress and encouragement and consolation.(AMP)

Kenneth. Hagin

 

[Curtis]

Every believer has the Holy Spirit in him to lead and guide him; each believer can hear from God for himself. Therefore, under the New Covenant, it is unscriptural to seek guidance through a prophet., God may speak a word to a person through a prophet to confirm something a believer already has in his own spirit. But the prophet is not to lead or guide people through that office; normally every believer will be led by the Holy Spirit through his own spirit.

Kenneth Hagin

 

[Curtis]

Rom 16:1 With this letter I'm introducing Phoebe to you. She is our sister in the Christian faith and a deacon of the church in the city of Cenchrea.