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Elect according to the foreknowledge of God

Simple: just define one word:

Noun1.predestination- previous determination as if by destiny or fate
destiny, fate - an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
2.predestination- (theology) being determined in advance; especially the doctrine (usually associated with Calvin) that God has foreordained every event throughout eternity (including the final salvation of mankind)
foreordination, predetermination, preordination
election - t
Whatsoever come to be. GOD has Decided before all Creation. “ALL CREATION” Time Thought Future, darkness, Light, and Thought. :eyes:


Even a child can understand that.
 
This exposes your error, all men are not first born with the Holy Spirit.


Again, this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. All men are first born of the “flesh” which means they have a fallen nature and do not have the divine nature of God by His Holy Spirit.

Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit. Our first man is born of the “flesh”, which is why we need to be born again from above by the Holy Spirit.

Look at the meaning of the word “flesh” in that verse….

the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
  1. without any suggestion of depravity
  2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
  3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
  4. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
  5. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God”
If all men are first born of God’s Holy Spirit then there would be no need to be born again and be given “a new spirit”

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 11:19
Ezekiel 36:26

Hello @StewardoftheMystery,

To what Peoples were the words of Ezekiel (above) spoken?
Why are you applying them beyond their remit?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
This exposes your error, all men are not first born with the Holy Spirit.


Again, this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. All men are first born of the “flesh” which means they have a fallen nature and do not have the divine nature of God by His Holy Spirit.

Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit. Our first man is born of the “flesh”, which is why we need to be born again from above by the Holy Spirit.

Look at the meaning of the word “flesh” in that verse….

the sensuous nature of man, "the animal nature"
  1. without any suggestion of depravity
  2. the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
  3. the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
  4. a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
  5. the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God”
If all men are first born of God’s Holy Spirit then there would be no need to be born again and be given “a new spirit”

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
I did not say with the Holy Spirit. I said born with the Spirit of God. For we were made in a image! (Certainly not after the Flesh! For our God is Spirit!) And cannot breath without it. Cannot know of a “creator” without it. For this is what separates us from the animals. It’s what gives us our self awareness, and allows us the capacity to Love like we do in the first place. Because his “seed” already in us.

>If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. <
**Dual natured(Physical/Spiritual); Triune being: Body, Soul(mind), Spirit.(That Spark of Life that allows us to breath)

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a >life-giving spirit<(quickened!!!/Awakened!!!- From that Sleep!). 46 The spiritu(al) did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
(That evolution of the Consciousness’ understanding of itself!)

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. (Self awareness!!!)
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we *bear the image of the heavenly man.

(Really that whole chapters should be read. And the mystery of the sleep(ing) understood!)

Also, if you don’t mind, would you mind addressing my questions?
 
Ezekiel 11:19
Ezekiel 36:26

Hello @StewardoftheMystery,

To what Peoples were the words of Ezekiel (above) spoken?
Why are you applying them beyond their remit?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
All must be born again and be given a “new spirit” ; both Jew and Gentile alike. And ALL SCRIPTURE can be used to confirm this Truth.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
I did not say with the Holy Spirit. I said born with the Spirit of God.
Sure you did, you said we are all of the same spirit, and we are all first born “with a divine nature”. Which I showed you was false.
Luminary said:
But the Spirit(in man) does!!!—because it is of a divine Nature! Given to us when we take our First breath!
There it is, false doctrine
For we were made in a image! (Certainly not after the Flesh! For our God is Spirit!) And cannot breath without it.
The breath of Life is not the Holy Spirit, every living creature has the breath of life, that does not make them “ holy”
Cannot know of a “creator” without it. For this is what separates us from the animals. It’s what gives us our self awareness, and allows us the capacity to Love like we do in the first place. Because his “seed” already in us.
You must be born again to have God’s seed(Christ) dwelling in you
>If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. <
**Dual natured(Physical/Spiritual); Triune being: Body, Soul(mind), Spirit.(That Spark of Life that allows us to breath)
That verse is about the “ body”
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a >life-giving spirit<(quickened!!!/Awakened!!!- From that Sleep!). 46 The spiritu(al) did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
And that shows the 2 natures, we must be born again in order to put to death the Adam nature in us, and be raised up a new man with a new spirit in Jesus Christ.
Also, if you don’t mind, would you mind addressing my questions?
I just did.
 
Do we choose God, or does God choose us? The words “elect” of God means that we are “chosen” by God. Predestined by God means God had “foreknowledge” of whom He would predestine to be His “chosen” people.

Negative. The word "elect" means elect, it does not mean that God has chosen certain people for salvation...that is false calvinistic doctrine.

Foreknew means that He knew who would come to Him in Christ, it does not mean that God chose them, and when the Scriptures are correctly interpreted, this is abundantly clear.

One of the passages that calvinists in the past have butchered in their translations, is Eph. 2:5...which when correctly translated reads:

Ephesians 2:5
when we were spiritually dead through disobedience, He made us alive to Himself in Christ (in accepting Him is salvation).

"in accepting Him is salvation is the rendering we have chosen for this portion of the passage, which brings out the intended meaning according to the Greek. The wording is (kariti este sesosmenoi), literally in the Greek grammar as "in acceptance is salvation." There is no word in the phrase that either means or implies the word "by." One of the meanings of charis is acceptance, which fits better with NT theology, particularly that which is being stated in this text. The traditional English translation of, "by grace you are saved" is a Reformed rendering and not supported by the actual Greek. The rendering we have chosen rings more accurate according to covenant principle (as well as the Greek grammar of the text), for when one accepts God's covenant by entering therein through water baptism, then he has salvation (deliverance from sin). Therefore, by accepting Christ and entering therein, we have salvation from sin, hence accepting Him is salvation from sin."

God chooses all people to come to Him, but few ever do. Scripture upholds the doctrine of free will, which the false calvinistic doctrine of the elect directly contradicts on many levels.

Blessings!

..
 
I did not say with the Holy Spirit. I said born with the Spirit of God. For we were made in a image! (Certainly not after the Flesh! For our God is Spirit!) And cannot breath without it. Cannot know of a “creator” without it. For this is what separates us from the animals. It’s what gives us our self awareness, and allows us the capacity to Love like we do in the first place. Because his “seed” already in us.

>If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. <
**Dual natured(Physical/Spiritual); Triune being: Body, Soul(mind), Spirit.(That Spark of Life that allows us to breath)

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a >life-giving spirit<(quickened!!!/Awakened!!!- From that Sleep!). 46 The spiritu(al) did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
(That evolution of the Consciousness’ understanding of itself!)

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. (Self awareness!!!)
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we *bear the image of the heavenly man.

(Really that whole chapters should be read. And the mystery of the sleep(ing) understood!)

Also, if you don’t mind, would you mind addressing my questions?

If I might clarify some things...are you saying that man has a spirit from conception? If that is what you are saying, then you are correct...but using the term "Spirit of God" would be incorrect. The spirit that a human being has is from God, but there is a difference between a human spirit and the Spirit of God.

Blessings!

..
 
Negative. The word "elect" means elect, it does not mean that God has chosen certain people for salvation...
Rom 8:33 - Who G5101 shall lay any thing G1458 to the charge G2596 of God's G2316 elect? G1588 It isGod G2316 that justifieth. G1344

Elect G1588….

Strong’s Definitions
ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; from G1586; select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 23x
The KJV translates Strong's G1588 in the following manner: elect (16x), chosen (7x).

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. picked out, chosen
    1. chosen by God,
 
If I might clarify some things...are you saying that man has a spirit from conception? If that is what you are saying, then you are correct...but using the term "Spirit of God" would be incorrect. The spirit that a human being has is from God, but there is a difference between a human spirit and the Spirit of God.

Blessings!

..
Thank you!

Yes, this is what I’m saying. Like someone carries the “seed” of their father (the imprint of such, if you will)

But considering that there is only One Spirit, where do you find the distinction? Especially if a human, is flesh that carries Spirit?
 
Rom 8:33 - Who G5101 shall lay any thing G1458 to the charge G2596 of God's G2316 elect? G1588 It isGod G2316 that justifieth. G1344

Elect G1588….

Strong’s Definitions
ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; from G1586; select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 23x
The KJV translates Strong's G1588 in the following manner: elect (16x), chosen (7x).

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. picked out, chosen
    1. chosen by God,

Yes...my point exactly. The word itself simply means chosen or elect, the word itself does NOT mean chosen by God. It is the context of the word that gives it its meaning, not the word itself.

..
 
Thank you!

Yes, this is what I’m saying. Like someone carries the “seed” of their father (the imprint of such, if you will)

But considering that there is only One Spirit, where do you find the distinction? Especially if a human, is flesh that carries Spirit?

If you say that every human being has the Spirit of God in them, that is holistically aberrant to what Scripture teaches us. God's Spirit will not dwell within sinful men, at all. Therefore, the spirit that is within a human is his own unique human spirit. For example:

YOU are a spirit...YOU are who I am addressing at this moment, not your flesh. YOU are a spirit that temporarily dwells within a physical body of flesh and bone. One day your physical body will die (unless you are walking with God at the moment of the Rapture) and YOU - the spirit man - will simply step outside of one reality into another...much like you step out of your car when you get to where you are driving to. You leave your car, and go into your house...when it comes to human spirits, we will one day leave this physical reality and walk into the spiritual reality that surrounds us.

The Spirit of God will dwell within one who has come to God on His terms, receive salvation and cleansing by the blood of Christ. He can only indwell those who have been forgiven and cleansed...therefore, the spirit within sinful men cannot be the Spirit of God. It is a spirit that comes from God, but it is not the Holy Spirit of God.

Does that make it easier to understand?

Blessings!

..
 
Clearly you ignore both the Word and it’s meaning, even in the context of how it is used.

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. picked out, chosen
    1. chosen by God,

LOL! I'm not the one ignoring anything, you have just demonstrated clearly who here is doing that! For your learning and edification (because Strong's is NOT the best place to go for Greek word definitions)...

ἐκλεκτός
eklektós; fem. eklektḗ, neut. eklektón, adj. from eklégō (G1586), to choose, select. Chosen, select. In the group of three important biblical words, eklektós, eklégō, and eklogḗ (G1589), choice or election, selection involves thoughtful and deliberate consideration.

(I) Select, choice, elect. Used as an adj. in regard to stone as in 1Pe_2:4, 1Pe_2:6 quoted from Isa_28:16; see Ezr_5:8. In both of these instances the stone is the Lord Jesus Christ as the one chosen of God the Father to accomplish the work of redemption for sinful man. Of persons, chosen or distinguished as in 1Pe_2:9, génos eklektón (génos [G1085], generation), "a chosen generation," referring to the believers in Christ. See Sept.: Isa_43:20. Of angels in 1Ti_5:21, referring to them as chosen by God to minister to the special needs of believers.

(II) By implication meaning chosen, with the accessory idea of kindness, favor, love, equivalent to cherished, beloved. In Luk_23:35, the enemies of Christ around His cross said, "Let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God," which means the one cherished and beloved of God and who was selected to accomplish the work of salvation for others. In Rom_16:13, referring to Rufus, "the chosen one in the Lord" (a.t.), meaning the beloved one as in the previous verse referring to Persis. For Paul, Rufus was special in the Lord. He was dearly beloved. In the pl. hoi eklektoí, the elect, are those chosen of God unto salvation because they chose to be in Christ, who therefore enjoy His favor and lead a holy life in communion with Him. They are also called saints (Rom_1:7; Rom_15:31); Christians (Act_11:26; Act_26:28; 1Pe_4:16). The word is used to differentiate those who believe in Christ from those who do not. A great deal of confusion, however, will ensue if the term "the elect" is understood as composing only those who constitute the church of Jesus Christ during this dispensation of grace. Therefore, to arrive at the proper conclusion of who the elect are in each instance of its occurrence, the context has to be taken into account. In Mat_24:22, Mat_24:24 and Mar_13:20, Mar_13:22 it is evident that the elect are only those who will be saved during the tribulation, not all the saved of all generations. However, the term can refer to believers of all times, including those of the dispensation of grace, the church age, and those who will be saved during the tribulation as in Mat_24:31 and Mar_13:27. ; of the believers who are discriminated against during their lifetime (Luk_18:7). Generally, with a subst. (1Pe_1:2; 2Jn_1:1, 2Jn_1:13) or as a subst. (Rev_17:14).

Zodhistes, The Word Study New Testament

As I stated, eklektos means chosen, to choose, choice, elect, select...PERIOD. What is chosen, or for what purpose, or by whom, is dictated by the context of the sentence that it is found in.

..
 
LOL! I'm not the one ignoring anything, you have just demonstrated clearly who here is doing that! For your learning and edification (because Strong's is NOT the best place to go for Greek word definitions)...

ἐκλεκτός
eklektós; fem. eklektḗ, neut. eklektón, adj. from eklégō (G1586), to choose, select. Chosen, select. In the group of three important biblical words, eklektós, eklégō, and eklogḗ (G1589), choice or election, selection involves thoughtful and deliberate consideration.

(I) Select, choice, elect. Used as an adj. in regard to stone as in 1Pe_2:4, 1Pe_2:6 quoted from Isa_28:16; see Ezr_5:8. In both of these instances the stone is the Lord Jesus Christ as the one chosen of God the Father to accomplish the work of redemption for sinful man. Of persons, chosen or distinguished as in 1Pe_2:9, génos eklektón (génos [G1085], generation), "a chosen generation," referring to the believers in Christ. See Sept.: Isa_43:20. Of angels in 1Ti_5:21, referring to them as chosen by God to minister to the special needs of believers.

(II) By implication meaning chosen, with the accessory idea of kindness, favor, love, equivalent to cherished, beloved. In Luk_23:35, the enemies of Christ around His cross said, "Let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God," which means the one cherished and beloved of God and who was selected to accomplish the work of salvation for others. In Rom_16:13, referring to Rufus, "the chosen one in the Lord" (a.t.), meaning the beloved one as in the previous verse referring to Persis. For Paul, Rufus was special in the Lord. He was dearly beloved. In the pl. hoi eklektoí, the elect, are those chosen of God unto salvation because they chose to be in Christ, who therefore enjoy His favor and lead a holy life in communion with Him. They are also called saints (Rom_1:7; Rom_15:31); Christians (Act_11:26; Act_26:28; 1Pe_4:16). The word is used to differentiate those who believe in Christ from those who do not. A great deal of confusion, however, will ensue if the term "the elect" is understood as composing only those who constitute the church of Jesus Christ during this dispensation of grace. Therefore, to arrive at the proper conclusion of who the elect are in each instance of its occurrence, the context has to be taken into account. In Mat_24:22, Mat_24:24 and Mar_13:20, Mar_13:22 it is evident that the elect are only those who will be saved during the tribulation, not all the saved of all generations. However, the term can refer to believers of all times, including those of the dispensation of grace, the church age, and those who will be saved during the tribulation as in Mat_24:31 and Mar_13:27. ; of the believers who are discriminated against during their lifetime (Luk_18:7). Generally, with a subst. (1Pe_1:2; 2Jn_1:1, 2Jn_1:13) or as a subst. (Rev_17:14).

Zodhistes, The Word Study New Testament

As I stated, eklektos means chosen, to choose, choice, elect, select...PERIOD. What is chosen, or for what purpose, or by whom, is dictated by the context of the sentence that it is found in.

..
Here ya go hotshot, show us how you are right and God is wrong in all these verses below…..

God chooses His people = God’s chosen, or elect.

Deuteronomy 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy “God hath chosen thee” to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and “the Lord hath chosen thee” to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Deuteronomy 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the Lord thy “God hath chosen” to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the Lord; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom “he hath chosen” for his own inheritance.

Psalm 89:3 “I have made a covenant with “my chosen”, I have sworn unto David my servant”
Psalm 105:6
O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob “his chosen”.
Psalm 105:26
He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom “he had chosen”.
Psalm 132:13
For the Lord hath “chosen” Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Psalm 135:4
For the Lord hath “chosen” Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom “I have chosen”, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Isaiah 44:2
Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom “I have chosen”.
Matthew 12:18
Behold my servant, whom “I have chosen”; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few “chosen”.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are “chosen”.
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not “I chosen you” twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom “I have chosen”: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but “I have chosen you”, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but “I have chosen you” out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles “whom he had chosen:”

Acts 1:24
And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two “thou hast chosen”,

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is “a chosen vessel unto me”, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

1 Corinthians 1:27
But “God hath chosen” the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1 Corinthians 1:28
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath “God chosen”, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Ephesians 1:4
According as “he hath chosen us” in him “before” the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning “chosen you” to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath “chosen him” to be a soldier.
James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not “God chosen” the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 Peter 2:4
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, “but chosen of God”, and precious,
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a “chosen generation”, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and “chosen”, and faithful.

Romans 8:29-33​

29 For whom he did “foreknow”, he also did “predestinate” to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did “predestinate”, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freelygive us all things?33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's “elect?” It is God that justifieth.​

Jeremiah 1:5​

5 “Before” I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.​


Romans 9:8-26​

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;​

11 (For the children being “not yet born”, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to “election” might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)​

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore preparedunto glory,24 Even us, whom “he hath called”, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”​

John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast “given me”, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath “chosen us” in him “before” the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was “foreordained before the foundation of the world”, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 17:8 “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life “from the foundation of the world”, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”​

Titus 1:2 “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised “before” the world began;”​

Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; “mine elect”, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel “mine elect”, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and “mine elect” shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:22
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and “mine elect” shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the “elect's” sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very “elect.”
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together “his elect” from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for “the elect's” sake, whom he hath “chosen”, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even “the elect.”
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together “his elect” from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge “his own elect”, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's “elect?” It is God that justifieth.
Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according “to election” might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to “the election of grace”.
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but “the election” hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching “the election,” they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as “the elect of God”, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, “your election of God.”
1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and “the elect” angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for “the elect's” sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of “God's elect”, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father”, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, “elect”, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, “elected” together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and “election” sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
 
If you say that every human being has the Spirit of God in them, that is holistically aberrant to what Scripture teaches us. God's Spirit will not dwell within sinful men, at all. Therefore, the spirit that is within a human is his own unique human spirit. For example:

YOU are a spirit...YOU are who I am addressing at this moment, not your flesh. YOU are a spirit that temporarily dwells within a physical body of flesh and bone. One day your physical body will die (unless you are walking with God at the moment of the Rapture) and YOU - the spirit man - will simply step outside of one reality into another...much like you step out of your car when you get to where you are driving to. You leave your car, and go into your house...when it comes to human spirits, we will one day leave this physical reality and walk into the spiritual reality that surrounds us.

The Spirit of God will dwell within one who has come to God on His terms, receive salvation and cleansing by the blood of Christ. He can only indwell those who have been forgiven and cleansed...therefore, the spirit within sinful men cannot be the Spirit of God. It is a spirit that comes from God, but it is not the Holy Spirit of God.

Does that make it easier to understand?

Blessings!

..
What you speak of is our own unique personality. The “I” behind the flesh. This is a Soul that you Speak too.
I am a living Soul. A Nephesh. The combination of Flesh and Spirit. Which gives the impression of Seperarion. Until you have become one like Jesus’ very prayer asked for…

What you speak, is holistically aberrant to the Knowledge found in Nature that speaks our God knowledge. That displayed his glory in and through his creation.

It also goes against my life. And my testimony. We are to follow the voice we hear. And I heard it in nature first. Before I even knew of a Jesus. It’s how I was able to recognize it in Jesus to be able to accept his words in the first place. I was convicted to look at him. So I Am not one to hold the whole Bible as infallible. Nor man’s understanding of it. For rarly can he back up his words….without tying himself into a knot.

For it came through man. God said himself in the prophets that there were false ones. Wolves in sheeps clothings. Anti-Christs; This is not to say, for me, that his words are not contained in scripture. But not all that is said is from God, is from God. He said so himself.

I hear him more through his creation, than I do on paper. And this is what his creation speaks. For it’s the same spark of life in Everything. Nothing is Seperate from him. For everything was made Through him.

Light….he said himself….

Flesh is born of flesh; Spirit of Spirit.
Only Spirit can conceive Spirit. So how do you explain flesh conceiving Spirit?

For you should have the answer, if it is of/from God. Since you speak of his workings and claim understanding!
 
Here ya go hotshot, show us how you are right and God is wrong in all these verses below…..

God chooses His people = God’s chosen, or elect.

Wrong..."hot shot," apparently you are not as astute in Scripture as you believe you are.

First, lets correct the nonsense translation you have below...

Romans 8:29-33​

29 For whom he did “foreknow”, he also did “predestinate” to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did “predestinate”, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freelygive us all things?33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's “elect?” It is God that justifieth.​

The Greek actually reads thusly:

Romans 8:29-30
29 because God knew beforehand who He would come to know personally through relationship in Christ, and He foreordained that they were to conform themselves to be like His Son, so that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 And those whom God foreordained to conform themselves to the image of Christ, He also called to; and those who answered when He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified by a new creation.


Therefore, this passage does NOT say what you want it to say...sorry to burst your 'not stewardofthemystery' nonsense bubble...

Romans 9:8-26​

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;​

11 (For the children being “not yet born”, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to “election” might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)​

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore preparedunto glory,24 Even us, whom “he hath called”, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”​


This one is also one of the main passages that calvinists like to use...only because they rely upon more false translations of the Greek...the key verse is 22-23:

Romans 9:22-23
22 But hypothetically, what if God desired to show His wrath, and to make known His power, and endured a lot of suffering from vessels He prepared beforehand for destruction,
23 so that He could make known the preeminence of His glory, which His heart moved Him toward in kindness upon vessels of compassion, who He predestined to glory,

"Hypothetically" = the particle here (ει) is a conditional conjunction "expressing a condition which is merely hypothetical and separate from all experience in indicating a mere subjective possibility" (Wordstudy Dictionary; Zodhiates; electronic edition). In other words, Paul is not saying that God predestined some people to go to hell in order to demonstrate His power and wrath, which the idea itself is completely contradictory to other passages where we are told that God loves all people and that He desires that all people come to salvation and the knowledge of truth, that He does not desire the spiritual death of anyone. Yet, God looked down through history and saw that certain groups within the church would one day teach this false doctrine, so He "headed it off at the pass," so-to-speak. It is also important to understand that in this verse, as well as several others in this chapter, Paul writes in the form of a Diatribe argument. A Diatribe uses a false idea in order to highlight what is truth....so again, Paul is not saying that God has preordained come to hell and some to heaven, he is using that false idea to teach the righteousness and just justice of God's very nature. A just God cannot sentence people to hell just to show off His glory.

So...once again, this passage does NOT say what you claim that it says.

Most of the other verses that you copy and pasted from your personal document have absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject...just because they have the words elect and the like does NOT make them part of your argument...but nice calvinistic try. You DO realize that calvinism is one of the heinous false religions found, right? Right up there with mormons and jehovahs witnesses. You better learn some Greek, because you are horribly mislead...."hot shot."

..
 
What you speak of is our own unique personality. The “I” behind the flesh. This is a Soul that you Speak too.
I am a living Soul. A Nephesh. The combination of Flesh and Spirit. Which gives the impression of Seperarion. Until you have become one like Jesus’ very prayer asked for…

You are close...the soul is part of the spirit. The soul is the emotional and intellectual part of a person...when your physical body dies you will have all of your memories from this life (unless God removes certain ones if they cause pain), that's because the soul is part of the spirit. If you draw a circle diagram with three consecutively larger circles, the smaller center one represents the soul, the next larger circle represents you (the spirit man), and the third outer circle represents the physical body. The soul is NOT part of the physical body...look in Revelation...when John says he saw the souls of the saved, he is referring not to physical bodies, but the spirits and souls of the righteous dead.

You also have to remember to look closely at the context in which the word soul is used...because context gives you the meaning of the word. Sometimes it refers only to a person individually (4 souls were on the ship) with NO reference to spirit whatsoever...and then other times it does reference the spirit or soul within the spirit.

What are you referring to when you say, "Until you have become one like Jesus’ very prayer asked for?" That makes no sense.

What you speak, is holistically aberrant to the Knowledge found in Nature that speaks our God knowledge. That displayed his glory in and through his creation.

Um...no...you make absolutely no sense here whatsoever. Exactly what are you talking about and what does it have to do with the spirit that God causes to give life to a human being?

It also goes against my life. And my testimony. We are to follow the voice we hear. And I heard it in nature first. Before I even knew of a Jesus. It’s how I was able to recognize it in Jesus to be able to accept his words in the first place. I was convicted to look at him. So I Am not one to hold the whole Bible as infallible. Nor man’s understanding of it. For rarly can he back up his words….without tying himself into a knot.

So you are an esoteric knot? Scripture is infallible, and only those who don't know how to read and interpret it correctly tie themselves in knots over it. I am not one of those people. Tree huggers don't hear the voice of Christ or His Spirit, the voices they hear are from demons.

For it came through man. God said himself in the prophets that there were false ones. Wolves in sheeps clothings. Anti-Christs; This is not to say, for me, that his words are not contained in scripture. But not all that is said is from God, is from God. He said so himself.

So, you confess that you are not saved and that you are not a Christian...yet they let you post here? Interesting indeed...

I hear him more through his creation, than I do on paper. And this is what his creation speaks. For it’s the same spark of life in Everything. Nothing is Seperate from him. For everything was made Through him.

Light….he said himself….

Flesh is born of flesh; Spirit of Spirit.
Only Spirit can conceive Spirit. So how do you explain flesh conceiving Spirit?

For you should have the answer, if it is of/from God. Since you speak of his workings and claim understanding!

Most of this is nonsense. As for the question you ask, trying to trip me up...you answered it in the line before it. Only the Spirit gives birth to spirit, I never said that flesh can. You are seeing and hearing things that are not there.

..
 
First, lets correct the nonsense translation you have below...


The Greek actually reads thusly:

Romans 8:29-30
29 because God knew beforehand who He would come to know personally through relationship in Christ, and He foreordained that they were to conform themselves to be like His Son, so that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 And those whom God foreordained to conform themselves to the image of Christ, He also called to; and those who answered when He called, He also justified; and those whom He justified, He also glorified by a new creation.


Therefore, this passage does NOT say what you want it to say...sorry to burst your 'not stewardofthemystery' nonsense bubble...



This one is also one of the main passages that calvinists like to use...only because they rely upon more false translations of the Greek...the key verse is 22-23:

Romans 9:22-23
22 But hypothetically, what if God desired to show His wrath, and to make known His power, and endured a lot of suffering from vessels He prepared beforehand for destruction,
23 so that He could make known the preeminence of His glory, which His heart moved Him toward in kindness upon vessels of compassion, who He predestined to glory,

"Hypothetically" = the particle here (ει) is a conditional conjunction "expressing a condition which is merely hypothetical and separate from all experience in indicating a mere subjective possibility" (Wordstudy Dictionary; Zodhiates; electronic edition). In other words, Paul is not saying that God predestined some people to go to hell in order to demonstrate His power and wrath, which the idea itself is completely contradictory to other passages where we are told that God loves all people and that He desires that all people come to salvation and the knowledge of truth, that He does not desire the spiritual death of anyone. Yet, God looked down through history and saw that certain groups within the church would one day teach this false doctrine, so He "headed it off at the pass," so-to-speak. It is also important to understand that in this verse, as well as several others in this chapter, Paul writes in the form of a Diatribe argument. A Diatribe uses a false idea in order to highlight what is truth....so again, Paul is not saying that God has preordained come to hell and some to heaven, he is using that false idea to teach the righteousness and just justice of God's very nature. A just God cannot sentence people to hell just to show off His glory.

So...once again, this passage does NOT say what you claim that it says.

Most of the other verses that you copy and pasted from your personal document have absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject...just because they have the words elect and the like does NOT make them part of your argument...but nice calvinistic try. You DO realize that calvinism is one of the heinous false religions found, right? Right up there with mormons and jehovahs witnesses. You better learn some Greek, because you are horribly mislead...."hot shot."

..
You mean you want to “correct” the words of God. Anyone who has to “change” the words of God, and to “correct” what God really meant to say, is pushing false doctrine.
 
So, you confess that you are not saved and that you are not a Christian...yet they let you post here? Interesting indeed...

Greetings Shaolin,

please do not be rude to other Members and please stop trying to undermine the staff here at TalkJesus


thank you ....><>
 
What you speak of is our own unique personality. The “I” behind the flesh. This is a Soul that you Speak too.
I am a living Soul. A Nephesh. The combination of Flesh and Spirit. Which gives the impression of Seperarion. Until you have become one like Jesus’ very prayer asked for…

What you speak, is holistically aberrant to the Knowledge found in Nature that speaks our God knowledge. That displayed his glory in and through his creation.

It also goes against my life. And my testimony. We are to follow the voice we hear. And I heard it in nature first. Before I even knew of a Jesus. It’s how I was able to recognize it in Jesus to be able to accept his words in the first place. I was convicted to look at him. So I Am not one to hold the whole Bible as infallible. Nor man’s understanding of it. For rarly can he back up his words….without tying himself into a knot.

For it came through man. God said himself in the prophets that there were false ones. Wolves in sheeps clothings. Anti-Christs; This is not to say, for me, that his words are not contained in scripture. But not all that is said is from God, is from God. He said so himself.

I hear him more through his creation, than I do on paper. And this is what his creation speaks. For it’s the same spark of life in Everything. Nothing is Seperate from him. For everything was made Through him.

Light….he said himself….

Flesh is born of flesh; Spirit of Spirit.
Only Spirit can conceive Spirit. So how do you explain flesh conceiving Spirit?

For you should have the answer, if it is of/from God. Since you speak of his workings and claim understanding!

Few people recognize the distinction between soul and spirit this way. We have a soul-- a living soul as you say... a life that we live. It begins when we are born and ends when we die and it is the sum total of our acts and actions, our experiences on earth, the work of our hands, the path we walk-- our life-blood living existence. And it endures as a record, archived for review or judgement if you prefer that term.

We also are given a spirit by God when we are born- the breath of life. It's different than a soul, for this spirit of God is not 'new' in the sense that the soul is new at birth, the spirit is from God and of God and birthed by the spirit and sent to the world. Spirit gives birth to spirit, and this spirit that is given birth is a son of God, divine. For God so loved the world that He sent His son into the world that whosoever shall believe in him shall not perish but have life everlasting. We see this first act of love in the beginning-- where Adam receives the breath of life and becomes a living being... where he is given life, and becomes a soul, a naphesh as you mentioned.

Man-- the soil man, the earth man, the clay man, the red man, becomes the vessel that the son of God, -the seed- -the son- is filled with. And from this one act of love where the Father sends a son the sole (soul) purpose is expressly to produce something pleasing. To produce something of value from this garden of life. A man (adam) to bring forth life from the soil (adamah). If you can understand (and I know you do) that the soul is the soil and that the seed is the spirit, you will understand that the seed is planted in the soil for a season. It serves the soil, and brings forth fruit- it produces fruit with seed, ten, sixty, a hundredfold and having completed it's service it is judged by it's record.... what it accomplished during it's growing season. What kind of harvest was produced.

It all seems simple enough. But this story isn't simple. For just as there was a Sower who planted His seed in this adam, there was an enemy who 'came while His men were sleeping' and sowed darnel in the same field- the very same soil where the good seed was planted. And like the good seed, these darnel poison the soil and ruin the wheat crop producing bad flour from which would come bad bread- toxic and fungal, to make men dizzy and lethargic. But both seeds grow alongside one another for the whole season, until the end of the age.
 
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