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Election (being chosen) is not salvation

JerryfromMass said:
What does it mean when Paul writes that WhatDoes It Mean That G

What did Paul mean when he wrote that God "chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will"? Ephesians 1.
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Chosen us IN HIM . When do we get IN HIM ?
Predestined to the Adoption? When is the adoption according to Rom 8.23 ?
 
Born Again 2004 said:
Your studies have led you astray!
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But you haven't shown a verse that SAYS we were chosen TO BE SAVED before the foundation of the world . You have not shown a verse that SAYS we were predestined BEFORE the foundation of the world. Nor have you shown a verse that SAYS we are adopted at conversion. Romans 8.23 SAYS what and when the adoption is .
I don't read Calvernistic theology into verses and imagine that is what they say . Calvinism leads people astray.
 
Free gift said:
But you haven't shown a verse that SAYS we were chosen TO BE SAVED before the foundation of the world . You have not shown a verse that SAYS we were predestined BEFORE the foundation of the world. Nor have you shown a verse that SAYS we are adopted at conversion. Romans 8.23 SAYS what and when the adoption is .
I don't read Calvernistic theology into verses and imagine that is what they say . Calvinism leads people astray.
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You obviously don't know the power of the Almighty. You can't live the Christian life by saying " if you don't see it in the Bible verbatim, then it doesn't exist!

There is something called knowing who God is and the infusion of the Holy Spirit which leads us into ALL truth.

I think your problem is you don't have the Holy Spirit in you yet...maybe I am wrong!
 
B-A-C said:
Him knowing what will happen, is not the same thing making it happen.

Foreknowledge is not the same thing as predestination.
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He's Omnipresent!
He knew.
He knows.
Who knows what He can do?
He is ALL powerful with NO limitations.
Who of us know enough to put limits on that?
 
Free gift said:
that SAYS we are adopted at conversion. Romans 8.23 SAYS what and when the adoption is .
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(LSV) Romans 8:9 And you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; and if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ - this one is not His;
HEIRS WITH CHRIST - (LSV)
Romans 8:12 So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;
8:13 for if according to the flesh you live, you are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body you put to death, you will live;
8:14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;
8:15 for you did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but you received [the] Spirit of adoption in which we cry, “Abba - Father!”
8:16 [This] One - the Spirit - testifies with our spirit, that we are children of God;
8:17 and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ - if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
FUTURE GLORY -(LSV)
Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us;
8:19 for the earnest looking [anticipation] out of the creation expects the revelation of the sons of God;
8:20 for to vanity was the creation made subject - not of its will, but because of Him who subjected [it] - in hope,
8:21 that also the creation itself will be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
8:22 for we have known that all the creation groans together, and travails in pain together until now.
8:23 And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves groan in ourselves, expecting adoption - the redemption of our body;
8:24 for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what anyone beholds, why does he also hope for [it]?
8:25 And if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it].

Romans 8:23 is teaching us of the following (LSV)
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
20:35 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the resurrection that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage;
20:36 for neither are they able to die anymore - for they are like messengers [angels] - and they are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
 
Born Again 2004 said:
You obviously don't know the power of the Almighty. You can't live the Christian life by saying " if you don't see it in the Bible verbatim, then it doesn't exist!

There is something called knowing who God is and the infusion of the Holy Spirit which leads us into ALL truth.

I think your problem is you don't have the Holy Spirit in you yet...maybe I am wrong!
Click to expand...
Maybe its because I believe the bible and not calvinistic philosophy. According to Rom 8.23 ,when is the adoption ? Then that tells you when and what we are predestined to . Its not ' predestined to be converted ' .
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
 
Downunder said:
(LSV) Romans 8:9 And you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you; and if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ - this one is not His;
HEIRS WITH CHRIST - (LSV)
Romans 8:12 So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh;
8:13 for if according to the flesh you live, you are about to die; and if, by the Spirit, the deeds of the body you put to death, you will live;
8:14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;
8:15 for you did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but you received [the] Spirit of adoption in which we cry, “Abba - Father!”
8:16 [This] One - the Spirit - testifies with our spirit, that we are children of God;
8:17 and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ - if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.
FUTURE GLORY -(LSV)
Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory about to be revealed in us;
8:19 for the earnest looking [anticipation] out of the creation expects the revelation of the sons of God;
8:20 for to vanity was the creation made subject - not of its will, but because of Him who subjected [it] - in hope,
8:21 that also the creation itself will be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God;
8:22 for we have known that all the creation groans together, and travails in pain together until now.
8:23 And not only [so], but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves groan in ourselves, expecting adoption - the redemption of our body;
8:24 for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what anyone beholds, why does he also hope for [it]?
8:25 And if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect [it].

Romans 8:23 is teaching us of the following (LSV)
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
20:35 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the resurrection that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage;
20:36 for neither are they able to die anymore - for they are like messengers [angels] - and they are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Click to expand...
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
The Spirit OF is not THE adoption. THE Adoption is exactly what and when Rom 8 .23 tells us .
 
Free gift said:
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
The Spirit OF is not THE adoption. THE Adoption is exactly what and when Rom 8 .23 tells us .
Click to expand...
You have this so twisted but, maybe you are saved ; only God has the power to know for sure.

Good luck and best wishes on your thinking.
If God is OK with it, what can I say?
As long as you claim that Jesus is Lord and Savior, whom am I to argue?

CALVANIST or NON-CALVINIST, what difference does it make?

GOD gave you a brain, you use it as best as you see fit!!
 
Free gift said:
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)
The Spirit OF is not THE adoption. THE Adoption is exactly what and when Rom 8 .23 tells us .
Click to expand...
I read scripture and I get knowledge and understanding.
I read your posts and I get a headache.
 
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