Faith or works or both?

[Trevor]

You are so physical in your thinking.

There is no demeaning on my part. You are being silly .

Did not God conceive us in His mind . Did God not create everyone . We all came from God . Without God, no one could exist.

And we will all return to the Creator. The Last Judgement

You never mention Jesus in your posts, or lift his name in worship, don't you believe he's worth it?

Why would you assume that? Darclyid i ever say that Jesus is not my God .

Dont i contantly remind everyone that Jesus is also the Word.

I worship Jesus 24 / 7

So why would you say such a thing.

Have i ever accused you of such a thing ?

Why arent you using those Gifts of the Spirit. And no they are not sand box toys

No Bill, you haven't accused me, and I do remember you mentioning Jesus as the Word, and I truly apologise. However there is still a lot you say that I have issues with and I shall continue to fiercely debate them. Bless you.

 

[Bill]

The only person who came down from heaven Bill, is Jesus, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, He left his throne on high, to come down to earth and save us, we, who were already down here bound by sin and death, needing salvation. You shouldn't be using flattery, you should fall to your knees and humble yourself and lift up the name of Jesus, not your own. He's the one who died for us, not you. And when you lift yourself up, you insult him, and when you try to flatter the believers on this site saying we came down from heaven, you demean him who gave his life for you, shame on you.

.

 

[Butch5]

Support what . That you were created . Let me talk to you guys like you talk to me . And you tell me how silly this sounds .

Well Butch , your name isnt in the scripture. You must not be from God .

Isnt that a bit ridiculous. But this is how you guys are coming across to me .

You said, we're created by God. I just asked for supportive Scripture. You said you came down from God. Me thinks you're trolling.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Got one more question, maybe you will answer it...have you confessed your sins to God and received His free gift of Grace?

 

[Bill]

You never mention Jesus in your posts, or lift his name in worship, don't you believe he's worth it?

No Bill, you haven't accused me, and I do remember you mentioning Jesus as the Word, and I truly apologise. However there is still a lot you say that I have issues with and I shall continue to fiercely debate them. Bless you.

Dont judge me, just because you dont understand me .

 

[Butch5]

This is the message you want me to support with scripture . Are you kidding me . The bible is filled with it

That's usually a sign that one has nothing.

 

[Trevor]

Dont judge me, just because you dont understand me .

I have apologised, I don't believe I need to do it twice, and you're right Bill, I don't understand you, and I can't make a judgement on what I can't understand, not that I. should judge anyway, but I can question your understanding of scripture, when you missuse it. And I shall. Bless you.

 

[Bill]

That's usually a sign that one has nothing.

You are right , i have nothing . But in God, i have everything .

 

[Bill]

Got one more question, maybe you will answer it...have you confessed your sins to God and received His free gift of Grace?

Your name is Born Again . Why dont you allow the Holy Spirit to move in you.

I dont have to ask these questions , because the Holy Spirit already moves in me . I know when those here are trying to trap me into saying things. Do you understand that . Mr Trapper . Lol

 

[Bill]

That's usually a sign that one has nothing.

.

 

[Bill]

You said, we're created by God. I just asked for supportive Scripture. You said you came down from God. Me thinks you're trolling.

Were you created by God ? So where did God first think of you ? The scripture states " i knew you before you were born "

As God knew you before you were born . Where does God reside ?

Answer these questions and you will have mine.

 

[Bill]

That's usually a sign that one has nothing.

You should be happy, God likes you

 

[Butch5]

Were you created by God ? So where did God first think of you ? The scripture states " i knew you before you were born "

As God knew you before you were born . Where does God reside ?

Answer these questions and you will have mine.

God said that of Jeremiah.

 

[Butch5]

You should be happy, God likes you

Still no answer

 

[Samson2020]

You said, we're created by God. I just asked for supportive Scripture. You said you came down from God. Me thinks you're trolling.

Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also HIS OFFSPRING." For then as much
as we are the OFFSPRING OF GOD........"

Ecc 12:7 "Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

You can't remember who you are or where you came from simply because you were born into condemnation by the wisdom of God. You were separated
from him being born with a carnal mind inherited from the father of your flesh. That is the main difference between you and Jesus. As God was the Father of
Jesus' flesh he was born without the curse of the carnal mind, but he did partake of it at the end of his life in the garden prior to his crucifixion. As it was
necessary for him to partake of all things that his brethren partook of to make him a better high priest.
Heb 2:17 "For therefore he had to be made like unto HIS BRETHREN in ALL things......................

Notice if you will the reference to HIS BRETHREN, if he came from God and we are his brethren where else could we have come from? Indeed where
did anything come from that did not come from our Father?

 

[Bill]

God said that of Jeremiah.

And

 

[Butch5]

Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also HIS OFFSPRING." For then as much
as we are the OFFSPRING OF GOD........"

Ecc 12:7 "Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

You can't remember who you are or where you came from simply because you were born into condemnation by the wisdom of God. You were separated
from him being born with a carnal mind inherited from the father of your flesh. That is the main difference between you and Jesus. As God was the Father of
Jesus' flesh he was born without the curse of the carnal mind, but he did partake of it at the end of his life in the garden prior to his crucifixion. As it was
necessary for him to partake of all things that his brethren partook of to make him a better high priest.
Heb 2:17 "For therefore he had to be made like unto HIS BRETHREN in ALL things......................

Notice if you will the reference to HIS BRETHREN, if he came from God and we are his brethren where else could we have come from? Indeed where
did anything come from that did not come from our Father?

I'm familiar with these passages. What I was looking for was something that said God created us. God created Adam and Eve and told them to go and multiply. So, it would seem that God told them to do it. I agree that no one would be alive apart from God. But, I don't see anything that says He created each of us.

You said Jesus wasn't born with a carnal mind. Do you have supportive Scripture? Scripture says He was in all ways like unto His brethren.

 

[Butch5]

And

There is no and

 

[Samson2020]

I don't see anything that says He created each of us.

Your spirit came from him right? Do we honestly believe that he had no part in the formation of the body in the womb?

You said Jesus wasn't born with a carnal mind. Do you have supportive Scripture? Scripture says He was in all ways like unto His brethren.

Look at the interaction of Jesus and Peter prior to and just after entering the garden. First Jesus rebukes Peter for trying to keep him from being betrayed and crucified.
Then just a few hrs later Jesus is praying to the Father to remove this cup if he was willing. It was at this point that God made him to be sin that knew no sin and
it should be obvious that he had a different mind when rebuking Peter, than he had when praying for the cup to be removed from him.
A person who has no sin cannot have a carnal mind as this is the state of separation from God. We see Jesus as a young boy saying that he must be about his
Fathers business. It should be obvious that he was never separated from his Father as we were until the end. At this point he was saying My God, MY God, why
hast thou forsaken me. He it would seem to me was only ever absent from his Father for roughly 18 hrs, a miserable 18 hrs. I do not dispute that it behooved him
to be made like unto his brethren just don't agree that he was exactly like us the entire earthly life. Besides it is the father of the flesh that carries the carnal curse
and gives it to his children. God does not nor ever did have a carnal mind to pass to his Son.
So in return I would ask if you believe that he did have a carnal mind where did he get it? And could he remain sinless in that state?

 

[Butch5]

Your spirit came from him right? Do we honestly believe that he had no part in the formation of the body in the womb?



Look at the interaction of Jesus and Peter prior to and just after entering the garden. First Jesus rebukes Peter for trying to keep him from being betrayed and crucified.
Then just a few hrs later Jesus is praying to the Father to remove this cup if he was willing. It was at this point that God made him to be sin that knew no sin and
it should be obvious that he had a different mind when rebuking Peter, than he had when praying for the cup to be removed from him.
A person who has no sin cannot have a carnal mind as this is the state of separation from God. We see Jesus as a young boy saying that he must be about his
Fathers business. It should be obvious that he was never separated from his Father as we were until the end. At this point he was saying My God, MY God, why
hast thou forsaken me. He it would seem to me was only ever absent from his Father for roughly 18 hrs, a miserable 18 hrs. I do not dispute that it behooved him
to be made like unto his brethren just don't agree that he was exactly like us the entire earthly life. Besides it is the father of the flesh that carries the carnal curse
and gives it to his children. God does not nor ever did have a carnal mind to pass to his Son.
So in return I would ask if you believe that he did have a carnal mind where did he get it? And could he remain sinless in that state?

Everyone has the breath of life in them. I didn't say God had no part in it. I asked for Scripture to support the claim that God created each of us. I'm still waiting for that.

You said that Jesus didn't have a mind like us. I asked if you had supportive Scripture. You've given me opinion based on your reasoning. Statements such as, "it should be obvious" and "it would seem to me" are rationalizations. They show me that you're interpreting what your'e reading based on what you understand to be true in Scripture. However, what you believe to be true and what someone else believes to be true may be different. Therefore, what seems obvious to you may not be seem obvious to someone else. That's why I asked for Scripture.

Now, Scripture says that Jesus was made like His brethren in all things.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (Heb. 2:17 KJV)

If Jesus didn't have a mind like us and couldn't sin, then being sinless wouldn't be a great accomplishment. Being sinless is only a great accomplishment if one has the capacity to sin. Also, Jesus is set forth as an example for us. If He was unable to sin then He wouldn't be an example to us.

You said, "A person who has no sin cannot have a carnal mind as this is the state of separation from God." This is an arbitrary statement. Do you have Scripture to support this claim? The Scriptures say that Adam walked with God and yet he sinned. Enoch was said to walk with God and Paul said he had a testimony that he pleased God.