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There are so many verses that support this simplistic view; none better than these two!
Free will discussion 452,637
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PloughBoy
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(Matthew 13). ASV.
And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37And He answered and said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40“Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37And He answered and said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40“Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Samson2020
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Good luck, getting that across"That one, will get you lockup and put in a"Straight Jacket"
sonship and relationship are as far from organized religion as the sun from Pluto. Those stuck in O.R. spout her doctrines as truth but are dead inside for they have
given over their inheritance by being in submission to her, she has captured them and they cannot escape that captivity as it appeals to the carnal nature of man.
It does not benefit the great harlot for the children to understand, for if they did they would leave in droves and she would be broke and a gazing stock.
O.R. requires your complete submission to her doctrines that only include the things that profit her and leave you spiritually neutered.
A long time ago the Lord told me to call unto him and he would show me great and mighty things that I did not know. The most awesome is the truth in the Bible
concerning sonship, indeed it is the thread that runs from front to back and is hidden within like a single red strand of thread running from one end of a blue blanket
to the other. It is the greatest plan that God has ever had and he is making it come to fruition day by day and will eventually have all come to this knowledge, but for
now it is reserved and he only shows this to those he chooses to show it.
Consider that Love (God) begat Love (Jesus) who is begetting us through the baptism in the Spirit of God, once mature we are to be Love as they are for we are all
to be one. John 17:11 and 22
Essentially God is begetting himself billions of times over in that he is begetting love over and over and over until we ALL come together in love in the unity of that faith.
God is creating a family that will exist in love one with another throughout eternity, but since time will not exist any longer eternity has no real meaning, we will just be.
When John says the Word was God he is saying that Gods Plan was to recreate himself (Love) in ALL of us. Jesus who was the first and only example of an obedient Son
is the blue print (Word, Plan, Reason) that if followed brings one to the same place that he is now.
"Greater Love hath no man than to lay down his life for his friends." Agape
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The plan was with God and the Plan was to produce what God is in the form of a Son and then many, many sons that glorify the Father having been conformed to his image (Agape Love).
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. We all agree this was Jesus. He even said that I am the way, the truth, and the life. In being the way he is the one who
blazed the trail for all who would follow after him. The truth, in that what he became we are to be likewise. The life, in that we cannot be alive unless he gives us life from
his overcoming Spirit that was perfected through earthly travails, just as we are to be perfected in that exact same crucible of affliction on the earth. Love is not perfected
in comfort or by Rapture, those things will only prevent the formation of love in the son. Avoid tribulation and suffering and avoid becoming a son.
B-A-C
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Hmm... yeah, I've heard all this Mormon stuff before. But there is only one begotten Son and only ever will be.
Even in the after-life He will be our God and we will worship Him.
There will be no other gods. We don't become gods.
Except it's not in the Bible.
PloughBoy
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Now you know, I got my own heat. And you know where I stand. And i stand, right beside you!
on this one! LOL!Samson2020
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To BAC
There is one True God and that is our Father. Jesus is the first born Son of God and the only (so far) begotten from the dead Son.
Sounds like you believe that Jesus is God? You would be somewhat correct in that he became a life giving Spirit because of the things that he suffered and pronounced
by his Father to be a God. So God begat a God but the only true God is the Father. Love begat Love.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU hast sent." These are the words of Jesus. Argue with him.
There is one True God and that is our Father. Jesus is the first born Son of God and the only (so far) begotten from the dead Son.
Sounds like you believe that Jesus is God? You would be somewhat correct in that he became a life giving Spirit because of the things that he suffered and pronounced
by his Father to be a God. So God begat a God but the only true God is the Father. Love begat Love.
John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom THOU hast sent." These are the words of Jesus. Argue with him.
PloughBoy
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LOL!
Tell it like it is! "Put the paddle to the metal" "Put it in the Big Hole and gouge on it"! Big Hole means. In "overdrive"!
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Dear Samson2020,
No I believe Jesus is also part of the Godhead and if you read the Statement of Faith of this site, you will find that to be the case. Now, you may not believe that to be true, but as a member of the site, you have agreed to abide by that statement of faith. If you disagree with it, so be it, you are welcome to leave.
I'm adding the Administrator, and other Moderators to this post, so that you will see that it's not personal, and that I don't stand alone in this. @Chad @Br. Bear @Fragrant Grace
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><
B-A-C
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[KJV]
John 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
John 1:12; But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
We can become sons of God (through faith). But there is only ONE begotten Son. The Bible says He is the ONLY begotten Son. The rest of us were created (by Jesus no less).
Jesus is the creator, He was never created. He was always 'I AM'. He is the first and the last, the beginning and the end. There was nothing before Him. The fullness of deity is in Him, not us.
The human part of Jesus was "created a little lower than the angels for a little while". But that isn't when Jesus came into existence. He always existed.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together
Genesis 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
1Cor 15:23; But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
At the "end of this age". After the second coming, resurrection and judgment. Jesus will give it all back to the Father. Jesus Himself and all of creation become subject to the Father.
We won't go off and start our own little universe and be little gods of our own little worlds. We will all still be subject to the Father.
Some of us might be pillars in His temple. Some of us might even get to sit on the throne with Him, but all of creation (including you and I) will still all be subjected to Him.
John 3:16; For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
John 1:12; But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
We can become sons of God (through faith). But there is only ONE begotten Son. The Bible says He is the ONLY begotten Son. The rest of us were created (by Jesus no less).
Jesus is the creator, He was never created. He was always 'I AM'. He is the first and the last, the beginning and the end. There was nothing before Him. The fullness of deity is in Him, not us.
The human part of Jesus was "created a little lower than the angels for a little while". But that isn't when Jesus came into existence. He always existed.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together
Genesis 1:1; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
1Cor 15:23; But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
1Cor 15:24; then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Cor 15:25; For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26; The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27; For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28; When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
At the "end of this age". After the second coming, resurrection and judgment. Jesus will give it all back to the Father. Jesus Himself and all of creation become subject to the Father.
We won't go off and start our own little universe and be little gods of our own little worlds. We will all still be subject to the Father.
Some of us might be pillars in His temple. Some of us might even get to sit on the throne with Him, but all of creation (including you and I) will still all be subjected to Him.
B-A-C
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LOL!
For someone who admires John Calvin, you do not appear to share his beliefs on the Trinity and deity of Jesus.
Calvin’s View of the Trinity
John Calvin’s Institutes of Christian Religion, perhaps more than any other book produced during the Reformation, contains the clearest theological framework of the entire Protestant movement.[1] I…
jesusisworthy1.wordpress.com
Thou shalt have no other gods before me - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Samson2020
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Seems a bit unreasonable for quoting scripture that apparently the site doesn't like?? Afterall it is a biblical discussion yes??
Luke 6:22 "Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil,
for the Son of mans sake."
Samson2020
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Sorry to hear that as this is exactly what happens when you do not regurgitate the doctrines of the established organized religion. But as I am not of the O.R.
it is expected just as excommunication (or formerly death) from the Catholic church would be for saying the same.
P.S. What part of John 17:3 bothers the statement of faith or is it in direct conflict with that statement?
B-A-C
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No one has a problem with scripture. It's when someone's interpretation of that scripture disagrees with the rest of scripture that it become a problem.
The Father is God. (no problem, everyone believes that). Jesus is God. Not another God, not a "false" god, but the same God as the Father.
John 17:3; This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
This verse doesn't conflict with that at all.
Samson2020
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If Jesus is the same God as his Father then why would he say that "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he GIVEN TO THE SON to have life in himself."
Why would Jesus need to be GIVEN LIFE? Shouldn't he already have that as God? Can God die?
My Bible states that Jesus was a man from Nazareth that was crucified for the sin of the world. It also says that his Father is the one that raised him from the dead,
thus :"this day have I begotten thee" Psa 2:7, Acts 13:33, Heb 1:5
I remember several posts ago I asked both you and Curtis to share testimony with me so that I could understand your views. Curtis simply replied with scripture
that disputed the casting out of unclean spirits etc... However you never responded. Would you kindly give us a testimony concerning your conversion?
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Dear Samson2020,
This is not about being reasonable, or unreasonable. It's a Statement of Faith for Talk Jesus and as a member you are to abide by the dictates of the site.
This allows you to understand that though you may disagree with what is stated there in (SOF) and currently feel put upon for what you feel is a justified position. Moving, towards disparaging others for what is an accepted position on this site will not be tolerated.
If you are able to state your position, without the derogatory comments/words that are normally included with expressing your position. You will have no problem. However, add to them both comments and a presumptuous understanding of why others hold the positions that they do, will not be accepted. An example of this is in your reply to me above (bolded/italics). You make an assumption that it is through church doctrines and not personal exegesis that one voicing a different position than the one you hold. It would be the same as me reasoning that the position you hold is due to having attended cults that you've been indoctrinated by.
I could also, comment on your quote of Luke 6:22 as my motivating reasons for initiating this warning to you. This is not the case. In fact, if I hated you, I would just abuse you in writing, and ban you so you'd have no chance to voice your own position. Clearly, this is not the case is it?
You are being given sufficient, I hope understanding, that you are being warned that discussions are acceptable, but when they cross into personal attacks and assumptions which you have no way of knowing concerning an individual you are replying to, it will not be tolerated, and it will be reason enough to have you banned, considering the subject you are railing against is part of the SOF of Talk Jesus.
You are welcome to contact me via PM or any of the Moderators or Administrator if you feel put upon.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><
PloughBoy
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For someone who admires John Calvin, you do not appear to share his beliefs on the Trinity and deity of Jesus.
Calvin’s View of the Trinity
John Calvin’s Institutes of Christian Religion, perhaps more than any other book produced during the Reformation, contains the clearest theological framework of the entire Protestant movement.[1] I…
.Thou shalt have no other gods before me - Wikipedia
How would I know what "John Calvin" thinks about the "Trinity and the deity of Jesus"! I didn't live with him and sleep in the same room with him or shared a "cup of tea" and eat tea cakes with him or a sip of wine at the communion table, I cannot remember that far backFor someone who admires John Calvin, you do not appear to share his beliefs on the Trinity and deity of Jesus.
Calvin’s View of the Trinity
John Calvin’s Institutes of Christian Religion, perhaps more than any other book produced during the Reformation, contains the clearest theological framework of the entire Protestant movement.[1] I…
.Thou shalt have no other gods before me - Wikipedia
. I sat at the "Foot of Jesus, The Christ of GOD"! You know The GOD who "Created a Body for The WORD" "The WORD that "Put on The Garment of Flesh" and also was Given a Name, a Name that was above All names "! You know Him. The One that came out, from "Between Mary's legs" and "They Gave Him a Name"21And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this is come to pass, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, 23Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us.
And He walks like His Father, He talks like His Father, He thinks like His Father, He Was taught by His Father, for He that has seen The Son has Seen The Father for they are one! "For Behold; The Son of The Living GOD" just look how He Walks, He Walks just like His Father!
Yes! "For him that has eyes to see, let him see". For unto you, you have been granted to see,, light has come unto The World and the darkness comprehended it not". For you, are "The Sons of Light" and unto you The Light is Given so therefore walk in the light and rejoice! A Son was Given, that you would come unto your full "inheritance" at the adoption that was prepared before "The foundations of The Cosmos". Before there was either "Time or Space". Sealed before Time" it self! "Believeth Thou This". And Nothing can Stop it for it has been So Ordain by "The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY"!Now what? And it is more "Glorious than that" in stored for YOU!
I wonder, was that the "Language" of "Calvinese"
PloughBoy
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17Therefore doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. 18No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment received I from my Father.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.
American Standard Version
They said therefore unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye know neither me, nor my Father: if ye knew me, ye would know my Father also.
I will say this unto the "Faithful" even through our pain and suffering, if we are "faithful unto His Word" God would even give us a little laughter and joy, in learning and debating and we are even commanded to forgive one another, meaning "True children of God" 70 x 7..............even in a day. Forgive me my brothers and sisters in Christ for any foolishness that has cause you, any great harm, leading you into any Ungodliness and evil practices by the choices of my words in trying to edify the "Body of Christ". For I know I am a "broken vessel" as well.
Shalom.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.
American Standard Version
They said therefore unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye know neither me, nor my Father: if ye knew me, ye would know my Father also.
I will say this unto the "Faithful" even through our pain and suffering, if we are "faithful unto His Word" God would even give us a little laughter and joy, in learning and debating and we are even commanded to forgive one another, meaning "True children of God" 70 x 7..............even in a day. Forgive me my brothers and sisters in Christ for any foolishness that has cause you, any great harm, leading you into any Ungodliness and evil practices by the choices of my words in trying to edify the "Body of Christ". For I know I am a "broken vessel" as well.
Shalom.
Samson2020
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Would you mind giving an example of disparaging someone from my posts?
Again would you mind citing an example from my posts?
Again can you cite for me a personal attack on someone in my posts?
Seems a bit odd that you would make that statement after your PM last night asking me if I was a Mormon for my beliefs. And there is a big difference in cults vs O.R.
Yesterday at 9:55 PM
Dear Samson2020,
I'm asking as a Moderator. Are you Mormon?
Nick
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And as far as the quote of Luke 6:22 goes I never said that anybody hated me including you. I only quoted a verse. You assumed that part, but the
underlined part was the reference in the verse I was pointing out. As you have threatened to boot me from the site more than once for simply stating a position
and using scripture to back it up. Are we so afraid of the light that we cannot examine our belief system in light of scripture that we must toss out those that
we do not agree with?
I also find it strange that I have been here since late 2016 and said the same thing so many times I cannot remember, but for some reason you are taking offense
today?
Peter stated well that the time would come that heresies that denied the Lord that bought them would be taught.
My example is this :
If God and Jesus are the same entity, then Jesus is not an independent being. Thus there is no true Son of God, and no one can ever become one. The best one can hope for is to be a mirror of Gods love, rather than a new source of his love.
My intentions are only to teach what I have been taught and make an effort to not offend but there are always some who will take offense and this cannot be avoided
unless one puts their candle under a basket and does not let the light shine. But we are told "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear
in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops."
I apologize if I have offended you in any way but I will always speak the truth as it has been taught to me whenever there is an open ear to hear.
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Dear Member Samson 2020,
I notice you added the PM which stands for Private Message in open forum. There is a reason for using PM's. So, common courtesy appears to be something unknown to you. It appears that you also didn't read the full previous response that said the next communication between us should be via PM I have but to assume greater understanding is not what you desire at the moment.
For that reason I'll be giving you a 1 pt. warning and blocking you from responding to this thread.
Again, if you want to discuss this subject with, it must be via PM, or additional points will be given to you. Which after receiving a certain number of points the system for the site, will automatically ban you.
Moderator
Nick
<><
