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God's foreknowledge or God's election, or God's something else?

You got that right though. Job sacrificed all those barn animals out of fear of loss. The day Satan attacked was the start of it. It was the day His sons and daughters had gathered together. Satan can only take the place given.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
How do you suppose Satan got here.
It's kind of parallel to what Job was doing.
 
The Lord God deals with man according to his "faith", where as the Satan deals with man according to his "sin". Sickness is always because of sin. Job sinned by being in "fear". Fear is sin, as it is written in scripture, all the "fearful" will be cast into the lake of fire. God protects those who walk in "faith", but when one sins you come out from behind that protection. Ever hear of "the shield of faith"?
 
God's "elect" are those to whom God knew from the foundation of the world who would of their own free will choice accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Election, or predestination has absolutely nothing to do with God causing or forcing people to be saved. Salvation is given to any one who believes the Gospel.

What? Calvinism (predestination) has everything to do with God picking who gets saved. I am comparing two distinct doctrines in this thread. Calvinism and Armianism. One said God picks who gets saved, man has no free will, the other says God gives man free choice but God knows everything man will choose.

Now if your referring to some doctrine We have never heard of concerning Predestination, then please share that here. I can't take into account everything someone thinks of. I am speaking of the 5 points of Calvinism.
 
Greetings,

*[[Job 1:8]] KJP* And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one who feareth God, and shunneth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] LOGOS* And the Lord said to him, “Have you diligently considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on all the earth, a blameless man, true, godly, abstaining from everything evil?”

*[[Job 1:8]] ASV* And Jehovah said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job? for there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and turneth away from evil.

*[[Job 1:8]] KJV* And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] RNKJV* And יהוה said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth Elohim, and escheweth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] Webster* And the LORD said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil?

*[[Job 1:8]] Coverdale* Then sayde the LORDE vnto Satha: hast thou not considered my seruaunt Iob, how that he is an innocet and vertuous ma: soch one as feareth God, and eschueth euell, and that there is none like him in the londe?

*[[Job 1:8]] Tanakh* וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהוָה֙ אֶל־הַשָּׂטָ֔ן הֲשַׂ֥מְתָּ לִבְּךָ֖ עַל־עַבְדִּ֣י אִיּ֑וֹב כִּ֣י אֵ֤ין כָּמֹ֙הוּ֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ אִ֣ישׁ תָּ֧ם וְיָשָׁ֛ר יְרֵ֥א אֱלֹהִ֖ים וְסָ֥ר מֵרָֽע׃

*[[Job 1:8]] Wycliffe* And the Lord seide to hym, Whether thou hast biholde my seruaunt Joob, that noon in erthe is lyik hym; he is a symple man, and riytful, and dredynge God, and goynge awei fro yuel?

*[[Job 1:8]] ISV* Then the LORD asked Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on earth. The man is blameless as well as upright. He fears God and keeps away from evil.”

*[[Job 1:8]] Great* And the Lorde sayde vnto Sathan: hast thou not considered my seruaunt Iob, how that there is none lyke him in the land? a perfect & a iust man: soch a one as feareth God, and exchueth euell?

*[[Job 1:8]] EasyEnglish* Then the LORD asked Satan, ‘You have seen Job, who is my servant. What do you think about him? There is no one on earth that is like him. He is a very good person. He is afraid to make me angry and he obeys me. He refuses to do things that are wrong.’

They all say the same so why change what is written?

*[[Job 1:8]] SV* En de HEERE zeide tot den satan: Hebt gij ook acht geslagen op Mijn knecht Job? Want niemand is op de aarde gelijk hij, een man oprecht en vroom, godvrezende en wijkende van het kwaad.

We need to thank the LORD that these blokes didn't add their own reasoning to His words

*[[Job 1:8]] LXXA* καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ κύριος προσέσχες τῇ διανοίᾳ σου κατὰ τοῦ παιδός μου ιωβ ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν κατ' αὐτὸν τῶν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἄνθρωπος ἄμεμπτος ἀληθινός θεοσεβής ἀπεχόμενος ἀπὸ παντὸς πονηροῦ πράγματος

And do likewise.

Bless you ....><>

*[[Job 1:8]] 和合本* 耶和华问撒但说:「你曾用心察看我的仆人约伯没有?地上再没有人象他完全正直,敬畏 神,远离恶事。」

*[[Job 1:8]] SLT* And Jehovah will say to the adversary, Didst thou set thy heart to my servant Job? for none like him in the earth; a man blameless and upright, fearing God and departing from evil.
I am sorry brother Bear, what does this have to do with the common thread here about God's foreknowledge?
 
The Lord God deals with man according to his "faith", where as the Satan deals with man according to his "sin". Sickness is always because of sin. Job sinned by being in "fear". Fear is sin, as it is written in scripture, all the "fearful" will be cast into the lake of fire. God protects those who walk in "faith", but when one sins you come out from behind that protection. Ever hear of "the shield of faith"?

Ya, I skipped to this post as you just cleared it up.

Job did Barak God back. Job said Barak be the name of the Lord, He gives, takes away. The gifts and callings of God are not given or taken away. Job was wrong, but Job did acknowledge God was at fault to acknowledge back or Salute back.

Satan said, Job will bless you back to your face, or Barak back. Why the translated it to curse only in the book of Job is a mystery. It's the Hebrew for bless, or to bless back, to salute back.

Even though Job did this, It says Job did this in Ignorance and did not sin.

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
(Job 1:22)

He charged God as Satan claimed he would, but it was from a right heart.

Moses sinned, we know what He did and David blew it a couple times, clear on what he did. Job also blew it, but was clueless about having constant worry and fear which is not trusting God. Satan even convinced Job that cursing him would kill him, and Job's wife said curse God and die. Job had no clue about there being a Satan. Had no clue where fear came from.

Elihu said God rewards man according to his ways. The way Job was living his life in constant fear of His kids sinning in their heart, the fear of the Chaladeans and Sabeans coming to cause issue was a big place for Satan to operate.

Satan even had the nerve to tell God to hurt Job. God is watching the whole time Job listening to everything and acting on what Satan was telling him. God just may fail you Job, best not curse him.

Job said his fears came to pass. Fear is faith in something bad happening in the future.

For God to have stopped Satan, it would have Made God unjust, and God would have had to violate his own spiritual laws concerning to Fear NOT.

Thank you Curtis. Had to take a emergency trip to the Hospital this morning, have to go pick he up. Sort of put a dent in me explaining what happened to Adam. Satan was involved again though, and I'll tie it together as soon as I get grandma and if I have the time.

Blessings.
 
@Curtis knows my God, a God, that is all powerful, there is nothing he does not know, there is no place, past or future, that he can't be are hasn't been. He is absolute perfection.
Don't you agree @Byfaith ?

It's because of this Power and Wisdom that I don't agree God knows mans start to finish and all the choices man will make. Scriptures says as I pointed out God speaks something "Declares" and it happens, and God has to search the heart of man. I gave several scriptures for that.

you have to remember that God can flatten a mountain in a second, change anything even faster. He does not need this fortune telling ability we give him. It's not even in scripture that he has this which I will give more examples of it.

The scripture examples you gave is God causing something by speaking. That is knowledge, then causing. That is not fortune telling, so I did not bother to respond. If you can't see the difference, then it would take a whole lot more explaining and foundation to get you to see it, something this post is not designed to do. It is assumed that people know the difference between Something God planned and said coming to pass, and God just being some fortune teller.

God is all powerful, but it's in line with scripture, not what man makes up and right now we are examining Calvinism and Arminaism both very different belief's on God.
both very popular beliefs.

Be blessed.
I have to go get my grandma.
 
t's because of this Power and Wisdom that I don't agree God knows mans start to finish and all the choices man will make.
In the spirit of an honest conversation, I asked you to answer some basic questions without skirting around them, I meant skirting around them with indirect answers, which is what you did. For the sake of everyone reading this thread, I will try one more time...These are just honest / fair questions to further our understanding of one another, a direct answer please:
  • As long as I can remember God has been explained as being Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent. Do you believe in these and will you explain what they mean?
  • @Curtis and I on this thread have stated as such, though we disagree at times, we believe Jesus is Lord ans savior, and therefore we consider each other brothers in Christ. Do you join us and consider yourself a brother in Christ along with us?
 
This is correct!

It's not correct Curtis, good Job on taking part of my post though. Pretty impressive. I get it, your Armianian, fine. There is a serious issue with that understanding though. A real problem I see in these so called Faith Churches. Not against any church, but that is not how God deals with us.

ya, OK, so God Knows every choice man will make.

God must be an idiot then. God knowing Saul would disobey him and cause him to grieve and repent, picked Saul as King anyway because God just loves the abuse and disobedience.

God Training up lines of families to be priest which is a Job that needs lots of knowledge gave it to Eli's Family, Knowing that all that hard work and effort would go to waste as Eli refused to get his sons in Check. God even lied saying to Eli "though I promised your family to be priest before me forever. Far be it from me, those that Honor me, I will honor and those that don't Honor me, I will Lightly esteem.
God even blamed Eli, when the whole Time God knew the whole thing would end up a mess and knew the whole time He picked the Wrong family to be his priest. Bad God... Just Bad.

God creating man in his Image dwell with them on earth, helping them hoping the best for them, knowing full well he was going to drown them all and repent, wishing he never even created man. This grieved him so much There is a rainbow in his throne room to keep it in remembrance as it was a major deal and the hardest thing he had to do. Destroy his man, and creation.
God knew from the start He was going to grieve himself and knew that making man was not a great plan, but did it anyway, just so we can have Rainbow.s

it's starting to make sense to me Curtis. I must have been mistaken, I thought God was brighter than this.

Be blessed Curtis. I'll get to the Adam thing, just got back from the Hospital and kids want to eat.
 
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It's not correct Curtis
Could you please explain why you ask Curtis for his belief, he gives his honest answer based on his belief, and then you tell him no, his answer is wrong. It is his answer. You have the right to not like that answer, but you have no right to say he doesn't know his own belief!:eek:
While you are at it please tells us how you define God being Omnipresent?
 
. God even lied saying to Eli "though I promised your family to be priest before me forever. Far be it from me, those that Honor me, I will honor and those that don't Honor me, I will Lightly esteem.
God even blamed Eli, when the whole Time God knew the whole thing would end up a mess and knew the whole time He picked the Wrong freaking family to be his priest. Bad God... Just Bad.

Do you see these things you said, "that God lied", and that "God was bad" God is not bad, neither is it possible for God to ever lie. These are very obvious signs that the God you are claiming to know is not the same God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

No Christian would call God a lair or that he was bad....ever!!!!!
 
Could you please explain why you ask Curtis for his belief, he gives his honest answer based on his belief, and then you tell him no, his answer is wrong. It is his answer. You have the right to not like that answer, but you have no right to say he doesn't know his on belief!:eek:
While you are at it please tells us how you define God being Omnipresent?

Give me the Scripture that says God is Omnipresent and I'll explain it.
 
So, did you ever explain the Adam thing? Did I miss it?

No, Had to take Grandma to the hospital and have Sam Brandt here getting help with her new Christian Music CD. She is so Amazing. I will get the Adam deal up Tomorrow. So sorry, the Adam thing has to be right and I am being pulled all over the place at home.

Thank you Travis for your patience and great post. I really enjoy writing back and forth with you. God bless you Brother.

If I can get Sam to do a Cover song in the Studio, I'll post it. I am thinking Hillsongs, but Sam is playing this slow stuff.... Ugghhh, everyone should like what I like and be just like me. :)

Blessings everyone.
 
Do you see these things you said, "that God lied", and that "God was bad" God is not bad, neither is it possible for God to ever lie. These are very obvious signs that the God you are claiming to know is not the same God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

No Christian would call God a lair or that he was bad....ever!!!!!

If God said to Israel the promise land is yours, then in Numbers 14 tells them He has to breach his promise, and knew the whole time He would have to breach his promise. That is called lying Curtis.

If you know something, but say say something else, it's a lie Travis.

If You ask me to watch your cat, and I did a horrible job while you were away and let the cat get eaten by a dog, but tell you on the phone that your cat is doing just fine, knowing different, then I just lied to you.

Curtis, you know what lying is, right? If God foreknows everything, then God is a liar. I can provide many scriptures if you like.

Think about it. I am trying to show and teach something very important here.
 
If God said to Israel the promise land is yours, then in Numbers 14 tells them He has to breach his promise, and knew the whole time He would have to breach his promise. That is called lying Curtis.

If you know something, but say say something else, it's a lie Travis.

If You ask me to watch your cat, and I did a horrible job while you were away and let the cat get eaten by a dog, but tell you on the phone that your cat is doing just fine, knowing different, then I just lied to you.

Curtis, you know what lying is, right? If God foreknows everything, then God is a liar. I can provide many scriptures if you like.

Think about it. I am trying to show and teach something very important here.
In Christianity we use the whole Word of God to come to a conclusion of truth. If there are any scriptures that say other wise then what you think is truth is simply a "lie"
If God can "lie" then his Word is not dependable for anything!!!

Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
 
If You ask me to watch your cat, and I did a horrible job while you were away and let the cat get eaten by a dog, but tell you on the phone that your cat is doing just fine, knowing different, then I just lied to you.
But if you did not look at the cat before calling then there is an equal probability that the cat is alive if your watching the cat for a guy named Schrodinger
According to Schrodinger's experiment an actual observation has to be made before becoming reality.
He observes all our paths and he leads us in the paths of righteousness for his names sake.
 
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