God's foreknowledge or God's election, or God's something else?

[Byfaith]

In Christianity we use the whole Word of God to come to a conclusion of truth. If there are any scriptures that say other wise then what you think is truth is simply a "lie"
If God can "lie" then his Word is not dependable for anything!!!

Now we are getting somewhere. If God can not lie, then it's not possible for God to know one thing being true, but say something different. So if God knew the outcome of Israel and that all the adults would perish (Thousands of them) then he would not have told them He gave them the promise land, and would not have told them He had to break His promise to them in Numbers 14.

People that just follow these man made doctrines of Election or Foreknowledge need to take time to understand what that implies toward God who has been nothing but good to us. Election says He is a respecter of persons and unjust, Foreknowledge says he is a liar and promises things He already knows will never work.
If we just accept the scripture that God searches the Heart, Knows all things about the Heart and deals with man according to his ways, and His heart, then every scripture lines up, and God is just, man has no excuse.

But if you did not look at the cat before calling then there is an equal probability that the cat is alive if your watching the cat for a guy named Schrodinger
According to Schrodinger's experiment an actual observation has to be made before becoming reality.
He observes all our paths and he leads us in the paths of righteousness for his names sake.

Yes, a whole lot of factors there. I am looking at the cat also through my understanding an knowledge. If I see the cat may be dead, it actually might not have been, and did I look at the correct cat? The one cat could have been fine, and it was the Neighbors cat I found dead.
God's Wisdom and Knowledge does not get hampered by human wisdom and understanding or is limited to having to view things from a flesh body which is very limited in perception.

However Wrong we may be though. The cat could be alive and well, but we think it dead and tell the owner it's alive. Though it's alive, our heart lied and deceived because we actually thought it was dead. My Point is, God never lies, and God is never confused about what is going on. He would not lie if His heart knew one thing, though through mans own turning away from Him messed it all up.

We look at probability, God placed the tree in the Garden, warned Adam not to eat of that tree. You don't warn someone of something if that probability is not there. People can warn us out of fear to be careful driving on the way home, warn us to dress up warm because we could get sick. Most of these warnings are based on what can go wrong will go wrong. It's not based on the wisdom and knowledge of God. We don't even see all things that could possible go Wrong like God. He would only warn us of things that are valid and possible if we don't follow the direction.

God focused on that tree in the Garden, He knew something. Now the question is, did He understand the probability of it, or did He already know, or already predestine Adam to blow that one thing He was warned against?

I have a lot of ministry stuff in front of me, I'll try to get what I believe happened so that others can judge and examine.

Be blessed.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

However Wrong we may be though. The cat could be alive and well, but we think it dead and tell the owner it's alive. Though it's alive, our heart lied and deceived because we actually thought it was dead. My Point is, God never lies, and God is never confused about what is going on. He would not lie if His heart knew one thing, though through mans own turning away from Him messed it all up.

I follow you,however you said earlier that God was being sarcastic about Job having knowledge of the beginning.
If he told Job something that was not truth then he lied.
I don't believe God lies either.

God said everything was good,then suddenly it was not good that the man should be alone.
So why did God create or allow a "not good" situation?

 

[RJ]

Give me the Scripture that says God is Omnipresent and I'll explain it.

I am just trying to understand you and you still answer indirectly. Please answer thees 3 questions directly:
1.So you are saying that if there is no scripture that says directly that God is omnipresent, he therefore must not be?
2. What does your heart tell you, do you think God is omnipresent? How about a simple yes or no?

You pride yourself in knowing God's word, how do you interpret these:
Matthew 19:26 - But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Luke 1:37 - For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Revelation 19:6 - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
3. Based on these just a few of many verses that talk about God's ability, can you classify our God as ALL Powerful?

 

[Byfaith]

I follow you,however you said earlier that God was being sarcastic about Job having knowledge of the beginning.
If he told Job something that was not truth then he lied.
I don't believe God lies either.

God said everything was good,then suddenly it was not good that the man should be alone.
So why did God create or allow a "not good" situation?

That's pretty deep. Job was just running on about how it was God's fault, when Job had not known or considered past what he saw. God just asked Job are you so old, you know everything?
God starts out with Job....... Where were YOU When...............

Later God says, You must know all these things since you must have been born way back then, or is it because your so Old and full of wisdom.

I really like when God told Judah...... Go call on your gods, there so many surely they can help you. You have more gods than you do cities.

There is also another place in Gen 1 where God says....... It was just so, or just done. He did not say it was good. Some believe that is the place He designed for the devil. Speculation of course.
I think God had it right though, Just Adam was good. Adding women sure messed us all up.

You pride yourself in knowing God's word, how do you interpret these:
Matthew 19:26 - But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Luke 1:37 - For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Revelation 19:6 - And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
3. Based on these just a few of many verses that talk about God's ability, can you classify our God as ALL Powerful?

These are Scriptures RJ. How does the ability to turn a mountain into dust equate to having the ability of a fortune teller? You assume if One is true, then everything else you make up in your mind must also be true. That is not the Case RJ, to believe something you need something called a scripture. We are told specifically what God Knows, How He knows it, How he hears someone cry out, How He knows a person (Jesus gave a few examples of that) How God can count anything, even the number of grass on a hill or hairs on a head. How God can take just a lump of dirt and calculate from that the precise math to balance a planet, and keep other planets from smashing into each other.

Missing are.

God lives outside of time.
God knows the end from the begging.
God saw your whole life from a child until you were grown.
God is Omnipresent


So, we don't add the ones we want, we stick with scriptures RJ. I can't teach something that is not scripture and call myself a bible teacher. I might as well teach Disney or Star Trek's theory on Inertia dampeners.
What are we told that happens if we ADD things and say they are scriptural? What did God say about that RJ?

 

[RJ]

God lives outside of time.
God knows the end from the begging.
God saw your whole life from a child until you were grown.
God is Omnipresent

So, finally we come into agreement without all the hyperbole. @Byfaith , if we then agree that God is in fact Omnipresent, we must also agree that he was in our future and knew when we received the Holy Spirit. How else could he put our name in the Lamb's book of Life?

 

[Byfaith]

So, finally we come into agreement without all the hyperbole. @Byfaith , if we then agree that God is in fact Omnipresent, we must also agree that he was in our future and knew when we received the Holy Spirit. How else could he put our name in the Lamb's book of Life?

Yes we agree on lots of things. I don't agree God is Omnipresent as we imagine He is. Also we were written in the lambs book of life "From" the foundation of the Word, not "Before" The prophets spoke the Word "From" the foundation of the World people heard and responded.

Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
(Luk 11:49-50)

So in Rev when it talks about the names being in the book from the foundation of the World, It does not give that start point but that since the Lord sent prophets. The people that heard and responded were written in the Lambs book of Life.

Before the foundation of the World, Peter says Jesus was foreknown (Foreordained KJV)

So we know Jesus was also known before the Word was made, Given glory by the Father before the World was made.

Romans is about Israel the Natural branch. These scriptures talk about the Church.

Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph_1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

These scriptures read more as God picks and chooses who gets saved and not God who Knows who will be saved.

Calvinist use these scriptures. So, I am trying to show how God knows us, and Jesus said it a few times.

Wife needs help though with Web site. Another singer needs help setting up stuff, so I will post those scriptures Jesus said and show How God knows us. It's not by foreknowledge.

I'll give one real quick.

Jesus foreknown before the foundation of the World....... The Son of God who has always been, will always be, and always Is. With the Father for eternity. If anyone knew the Son, it would be the Father, Jesus even said He has seen the Father's face, Jesus knew the Father.

When Jesus came to earth though as a man, God in flesh, for some odd reason he had to prove himself to the Father as a human.

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
(Luk 2:52)

Look at his RJ, Jesus increased in Wisdom and Favour with God. Kind of strange since he has always been with the Father, but it appears the Father gave Jesus no free ride, he had to be faithful.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
(Joh 8:29)

Jesus said the Father is always with him, because he always does those things that please him. So, God is even dealing with our King not by foreknowledge, but by our Lord's faithfulness.

So God deals with us according to our faithfulness, not according to some foreknowledge as our heart can change for or against him.

Wife is crying out for help. Will post more on this.

blessings.

 

[RJ]

Yes we agree on lots of things. I don't agree God is Omnipresent as we imagine He is

You're a constant conflict in terms. You don't agree that God is Omnipresent as we imagine. You meant as I imagine, we means that we would agree, which we don't?
Obviously you have a different interpretation to align with your narrative.
For the sake of getting to know each other even better, will you at least agree that God is Omnipotent?
In other words, wouldn't you at least agree that it means having unlimited power; able to do anything?

 

[Curtis]

When Jesus came to earth though as a man, God in flesh, for some odd reason he had to prove himself to the Father as a human.

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
(Luk 2:52)

Look at his RJ, Jesus increased in Wisdom and Favour with God. Kind of strange since he has always been with the Father, but it appears the Father gave Jesus no free ride, he had to be faithful.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
(Joh 8:29)

Jesus said the Father is always with him, because he always does those things that please him. So, God is even dealing with our King not by foreknowledge, but by our Lord's faithfulness.

So God deals with us according to our faithfulness, not according to some foreknowledge as our heart can change for or against him.

Jesus was a "man", and he was also "God". He was a God man. Jesus had "two" natures a "human" nature and a "divine" nature. It was Jesus's human nature that grew in Wisdom just like how we grow in the things of God. Jesus's divine never grew or learned anything as that was God himself who knows all things.

6 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[RJ]

When Jesus came to earth though as a man, God in flesh, for some odd reason he had to prove himself to the Father as a human.

He was created in the womb by the Omnipresence of God himself and you call it some odd reason that he walked in the Light as a man, in whom God was well pleased?

 

[Byfaith]

For the sake of getting to know each other even better, will you at least agree that God is Omnipotent?
In other words, wouldn't you at least agree that it means having unlimited power; able to do anything?

yes, Omnipotent is in scripture. Agree 100%

Look at the Lepers who by faith decided to just do something by stay and die. As they started to Walk, the Lord sent a strong voice of horseman and a massive army to the syrian camp. They ran and left everything, the food, the gold, everything. Just by the act of faith of some lepers, the Lord in a instant changed a situation for thousands of people who were starving to death. The Lord made a way just that quick.

When we believe God, what looks like no way, God can suddenly create anything that changes everything.

Jesus was a "man", and he was also "God". He was a God man. Jesus had "two" natures a "human" nature and a "divine" nature. It was Jesus's human nature that grew in Wisdom just like how we grow in the things of God. Jesus's divine never grew or learned anything as that was God himself who knows all things.

6 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Well, I agree Jesus like us was limited by his flesh nature and had to trust in the Holy Spirit just like we do. Jesus had to be filled with the Holy Spirit just like us. He still was with the Father who gave him glory before the foundation of the World. At age 12 he did not seem confused about who he was, and when he was older he talked of his Fathers House and all kinds of things he would have know since he had been there.

I am not sure what age he made the connection, and there is no scripture saying His divine nature learned or grew in anything. I would imagine his flesh mind had to be renewed to the point it saw what his spirit knew already. We need more scripture on that.

One thing for Certain, He knew the Father gave him Glory before the Earth was even formed. He only said what the Father said, and what he seen and heard. Did he know before, or was it revealed to him who he was?
Did He have to start from scratch and do everything through obedience and learning scriptures? He did study a lot.

All speculation.

One thing for certain, he had to prove himself to the Father. Which was my point, we don't bypass steps He had to take. God just does not have foreknowledge that we are amazing and hand everything to us. God has to see something in us, and adds to us.

Working on Sam's Website, amazing singer. Trying to convince her to give away her first two singles, that is not going well though.

I'll post all the how God knows scriptures in a bit. One very important reason we need to be faithful in what he has told us to do.

blessings to everyone.

 

[RJ]

yes, Omnipotent is in scripture. Agree 100%

You just can't force yourself to answer directly can you brother?
So you agree that Omnipotent means that God can DO ANYTHING he desires?

 

[Curtis]

Well, I agree Jesus like us was limited by his flesh nature and had to trust in the Holy Spirit just like we do. Jesus had to be filled with the Holy Spirit just like us. He still was with the Father who gave him glory before the foundation of the World. At age 12 he did not seem confused about who he was, and when he was older he talked of his Fathers House and all kinds of things he would have know since he had been there.

I am not sure what age he made the connection, and there is no scripture saying His divine nature learned or grew in anything. I would imagine his flesh mind had to be renewed to the point it saw what his spirit knew already. We need more scripture on that.

Jesus's "divine" nature never learned anything as God knows everything. God never grows or learns anything new for he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Psa 147:5 Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

Isa 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

God's understanding is Infinite meaning, "endless" It has no beginning or end. There is nothing he does not know. Everything that be can be known is known already. God's understanding is "unsearchable" meaning there is not enough time in this world or eternity to be able to know all he knows. God never learns anything new nor does he ever change. People change as they learn new things, but the Lord never learns so he never changes.

Jesus's physical mind is what grew in Wisdom, but his spirit knew all things.

 

[Byfaith]

So you agree that Omnipotent means that God can DO ANYTHING he desires?

As long as that anything would not violate His own Word. YES. I agree.

God's understanding is Infinite meaning, "endless" It has no beginning or end. There is nothing he does not know. Everything that be can be known is known already. God's understanding is "unsearchable" meaning there is not enough time in this world or eternity to be able to know all he knows. God never learns anything new nor does he ever change. People change as they learn new things, but the Lord never learns so he never changes.

Jesus's physical mind is what grew in Wisdom, but his spirit knew all things.

I see the issue here Curtis. Your pulling scriptures that describe the Only Lord God, and attributing to the Son of God who was the one that came in the flesh. Jesus Christ, came in the flesh.

So your using a Modalist, Oneness understanding of God which threw me off. Even Trinity says Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead, the Son of God, Not the Creator, Not the Holy Spirit. Then it goes onto say all 3 are One God which is a mystery. I thought you were coming from a Trinity point of view from your post in the trinity thread, but it appears you lean toward Modalism in this thread.

My fault, I did not see that. i see a Father and Son, Both God. So we won't be able to connect on this issue here about Jesus and what Jesus Knew or How He grew up which Scripture does not cover much of anyway.

Anyway, wanted to get more posted, but have other things to work on at home.

Be blessed Curtis.

 

[RJ]

As long as that anything would not violate His own Word. YES. I agree.

O.K., so don't violate his word!
His word says who he foreknow he predestined!
Romans 8:29 , this is his word, how do you interpret it?

 

[Byfaith]

Faithfulness How God knows us. Following His Path.


I have to keep my word and get this up. If I miss scripture or you feel I said something not found in scripture, please bring that to my attention. We don't take people's word on things, we are responsible to check everything out ourselves.

Each of us are wonderfully made. There is no person God made (all of them) whom he has not planed a great and awesome plan to follow, and obey him. (Psa 139:19)

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
(Jer 29:11)

Our Great Father who is Love that passes our knowledge and understanding can not by His very nature even consider one person not making it. God simply does not think that way. He has no foreknowledge of someone not wanting to choose him. Even Pharaoh, He was longsuffering and put up with a lot, before Pharaoh cooked his own goose.

Everything that comes from God is full of peace, wisdom, is not hypocritical. (James 3:17)

Often in the OT (Old Testament) We see God having to turn his back, and let his battle ax take over. He let the curse destroy man who did not keep his statutes and commandments. One thing we have to keep in mind though, God as a righteous Judge of Good and Evil, does not will to see a wicked person perish, or even willingly want to have to use a heavy hand.

Lam_3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Eze_18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

"If God has this fortune telling ability to know if a person will make it or not, then he certainly would never mention a person that can return from his ways, and would be righteous and just to judge that person the day they were born, knowing they will never honor him or serve him."

Jesus said:

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him,(Now, Now, I Know who will repent and who won't. I see the end from the begging. Don't wast your time on this tree, it will never be fruitful)

Some believe that is what Jesus should have said. They speak as if that is how things work. That is not what He said though.

Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
(Luk 13:5-9)

Luk_19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Promotion comes when we are faithful in a little. This is why sinning and repenting may keep you forgiven, but it won't get you promoted to better things. The Lord can only give what he can trust you with. He only knows that by how you conduct yourself, How you keep your word to others. If you can't keep your word to humans who you see, you won't with God. For whom you love, you keep your word to, and not loving your brother enough to keep your word, you certainly won't with God. Not my Words, John said that.

Abraham:
Gen_18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

How does God know? Because He personally knows Abraham. We want this same relationship with the Lord. We want the Lord to know that whatever he says do, we do. No questions asked. We don't need the Lord wondering of we are going to jump on the computer to look at Porn all night, then have to repent soon after. A person in that cycle, the Lord already knows your going to repent and feel bad. He just wants to know when you will stop, and not be pulled by pictures on a screen.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
(Gen 22:12)

When did God know? According to the Lord, it was when Abraham was about to put Issac on Ice. It took that moment, and then the Lord was sure. We are the seed of Abraham, and through that God also had a right not to spare his own son for mankind. Things in the spirit work under strict laws that govern them.

How does the Lord Know where you will be 20 years from now? He will know every single thing you will be doing.

There is a way the Lord does know everything about what we will do, and what it will be at the end of our life. The Lord has a race for us, a path, a designed plan He made for us to follow. Jesus had to be at exact places for Scriptures to come to pass, and he was where He was suppose to be because he never left the Will of His Father.

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
(Pro 4:18-19)

Off God's path it's dark. People not on God's path stumble at things and problem after problem comes up and they just don't know why. When it rains, it pours they say. That is because they are living life without God and without Hope in this World. Whatever happens to them happens unless one of us is praying for them. Even believers can get off God's path and go through things God never intended them to go through. If we don't stay on the Path God made, then we are out of his predestination that He set for us. Several examples of this in scriptures.

The way of the just is uprightness: thou, most upright, dost weigh the path of the just.
(Isa 26:7)

On God's path, the path of light. He has it all weighed out for us. We follow the path, and everything we run into is designed by a Father that loves us. It beats the path of darkness anyway, and Jesus Yoke is very light, the devils yoke and his dark path is extremely heavy.

One reason I get irritated of ministers complain on how hard the Road is to serve God............ yea, Go serve the devil for awhile, see how that works out for you.

That is how it works, we see that with Eli, King Saul, all those God was going to destroy, but repented and did not. Be thankful God does not "Foreknow" you will never get it right. He believes you will, and only thinks of ways to get your attention enough to get you back on track.

God also did not know or plan Adam to blow it. I will cover what was foreknown before the foundation of the World, and why it's not God's fault for Adam bring death to mankind.

Long enough.

Trying to keep my word. If I missed any scripture or said something you need a scripture for, please let me know.

ByFaith.

 

[Byfaith]

O.K., so don't violate his word!
His word says who he foreknow he predestined!
Romans 8:29 , this is his word, how do you interpret it?

Romans is the elected branch of Israel. Eph talks about us. it was Israel whom he foreknew and predestined to be saved. Jesus came for Israel, but they rejected him. I'll cover that next though, and show you what is predestined to be in Christ Jesus.

 

[RJ]

Romans is the elected branch of Israel. Eph talks about us. it was Israel whom he foreknew and predestined to be saved. Jesus came for Israel, but they rejected him. I'll cover that next though, and show you what is predestined to be in Christ Jesus.

Of course it is common knowledge by most, that the city of Rome was predominately populated by Gentiles and so it is expected that the church was comprised of both Jewish and Gentile believers . Paul addresses both groups in this epistle. So the epistle would.t have anything to do with just the elected branch of Israel.

Since you pride yourself so much with scripture knowledge please show scripture for what you said: " Romans is the elected branch of Israel"!
God, in His infinite foreknowledge, knew that certain persons would submit to be conformed to the image of His Son, and he predestined them for this. If you look at any respected commentary, you will see something similar to this. Please show me a commentary that supports your theology that Romans is the elected branch of Israel?
Here are some more scriptures for you deny or interpret as you please:

• 1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
• Romans 11:2 No, God has not rejected his own people, whom he chose from the very beginning.
• Ephesians 1:4-6 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

 

[Curtis]

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him,(Now, Now, I Know who will repent and who won't. I see the end from the begging. Don't wast your time on this tree, it will never be fruitful)

Some believe that is what Jesus should have said. They speak as if that is how things work. That is not what He said though.

Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
(Luk 13:5-9)

Byfaith, what you do not see is that God gives every individual every chance to come to him for salvation, and most of the time it is their entire life time! Fruit here is referring to the "new birth" by which all people must go through to become saved. The Word of God is the "Seed" that is planted in those who hear it, and if that seed does not produce any "fruit" that person does not belong to God.
A Christian is born again by the incorruptible "seed" of the Word of God. The very first fruit produced is the new birth!!

1Peter 1:23.. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We do not know what we are going to do day by day, or what will happen tomorrow, but the Lord does, and he speaks to man as if he was our best friend. God spoke to Moses in this way. The Lord God goes far and beyond what is needed to bring people to his Kingdom even when he already knows they will not. Jesus knew all who would believe in him, and those who would betray him from the beginning.

Joh 6:64.. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

 

[RJ]

Byfaith, what you do not see is that God gives every individual every chance to come to him for salvation, and most of the time it is their entire life time! Fruit here is referring to the "new birth" by which all people must go through to become saved. The Word of God is the "Seed" that is planted in those who hear it, and if that seed does not produce any "fruit" that person does not belong to God.
A Christian is born again by the incorruptible "seed" of the Word of God. The very first fruit produced is the new birth!!

1Peter 1:23.. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We do not know what we are going to do day by day, or what will happen tomorrow, but the Lord does, and he speaks to man as if he was our best friend. God spoke to Moses in this way. The Lord God goes far and beyond what is needed to bring people to his Kingdom even when he already knows they will not. Jesus knew all who would believe in him, and those who would betray him from the beginning.

Joh 6:64.. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Carry on @Curtis . I personally have a bad rap with some of the Moderators for carrying on to long to stand up for what I see as truth; Byfaith considers himself a Teacher and will only listen to his on reasoning. God Bless and thanks for the support!

 

[Curtis]

There is a way the Lord does know everything about what we will do, and what it will be at the end of our life. The Lord has a race for us, a path, a designed plan He made for us to follow. Jesus had to be at exact places for Scriptures to come to pass, and he was where He was suppose to be because he never left the Will of His Father.

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
(Pro 4:18-19)

The "race" you mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with receiving eternal life!!! A race is run to receive a reward. Eternal life is not a "reward", it is a "gift"

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There are five "crowns" a Christian can earn by running the race, but eternal life is not one of them!

The plans and purposes of God for man are known by God before the foundation of the world. There are works he wants us to do, and he already knows where we will go astray from them, which is why we are disciplined, chastised, and sometimes punished for going off track. We do not know these things but he does, which is why we are to be led by the Holy Spirit. How can a Christian be guided by the Spirit of God if God does not know what is up ahead before we get there?