Heaven after hell?

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- annihilation means ceasing to exist. No one ceases to exist. Everyone will either be existing in that lake or with God in the future New Jerusalem.

There Are those who feel that ceasing To exist would be much better Than existing in that future lake. And, of course it would be. But that won't happen.

 

[KingJ]

People who are in the lake of fire and brimstone are not going to be on fire with flesh burning. They will be in an environment of total misery.

I picture it like people being put in a bbq pit with the top closed down. Totally dark inside with hot coals all around. With no way out. The body existing in that environment Forever. People will be crying out in fear, anxiety, misery Forever.

Well that would be eternal torture. Would ''you''' do that to your enemy?

Forget scripture, forget God, consider if ''you'' would ever do that to your enemy.

 

[KingJ]

I would offer. God does not scare people into believing rather than working his labor of love or called work of his faithfulness.. .to both will and empoer them

Just curious, how can you offer that option with your belief?

Your message is ''Accept Jesus or literally die''. That is scary, is there a way to make it less scary?

I would think a person would have to believe the idea of torturing for eternity before reading And not the 70 or so years God has set the standard of suffering on . The first death never to rise to new spirit life for the unbelievers no faith) . It is he fiery judgment of; “You shall not eat or you will surely die “ the letter of the law death. Its the letter of the law along with its suffering burden (dying) the second death .the death of death itself.

This shows that God is a God of mercy. Mercy triumphs against fiery judgment by grace a work of His faith.

With your belief God is not a God of mercy on all. He is merciful on those who accept Him and merciless on those who don't.

Same with love, same with good, same with righteous. So, you really are insinuating God is a mix of all these words.

Scripture from God, tells us in Matt 5:44 to love our enemy. How is mercilessness loving our enemy.

Saying God is a God of mercy because He is merciful to us few chosen is not a message of free will. It is a message of a tyrant.

 

[KingJ]

If he had no mercy then they would suffer forever.

There is truth to this but it does not hold water on Him passing a test of being 'just'.

So you concede to the fact that He is only merciless to Satan, the beast and the false prophet who live on in fire for all eternity?

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 12:18; If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Rom 12:19; Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.

Psa 94:1; O LORD, God of vengeance, God of vengeance, shine forth!

Isa 34:8; For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.

Jer 15:15; You who know, O LORD, Remember me, take notice of me, And take vengeance for me on my persecutors. Do not, in view of Your patience, take me away; Know that for Your sake I endure reproach.
Jer 20:12; Yet, O LORD of hosts, You who test the righteous, Who see the mind and the heart; Let me see Your vengeance on them; For to You I have set forth my cause.

Jer 46:10; For that day belongs to the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, so as to avenge Himself on His foes; And the sword will devour and be satiated And drink its fill of their blood; For there will be a slaughter for the Lord GOD of hosts, In the land of the north by the river Euphrates.
Jer 50:15; "Raise your battle cry against her on every side! She has given herself up, her pillars have fallen, Her walls have been torn down. For this is the vengeance of the LORD: Take vengeance on her; As she has done to others, so do to her.

Nah 1:2; A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.

Exod 20:5; "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
Heb 10:31; It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.

Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:44; where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:46; where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:48; where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Garee]

@KingJ -- annihilation means ceasing to exist. No one ceases to exist. Everyone will either be existing in that lake or with God in the future New Jerusalem.

There Are those who feel that ceasing To exist would be much better Than existing in that future lake. And, of course it would be. But that won't happen.

Annihilation means suffering has stopped . Cain who could not bear the suffering not yoked with Christ as was Abel.

Cain who had no faith shown by his action “ plowed Abel under out of sight out of mind “ as the pagan foundation of the unredeemed . Cain must of hoped for an end.

But our father according to the mark(666) representing natural unredeemed mankind said mark my word. . what I say will come to pass you will suffer the living pangs of hell your entire life with no strength. . Not being yoked with Christ. The slow. .. . 70 years death sentence.

Geneisis 4:13-15 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Cain and Esua (the first borns) remained restless, faithless wanders all the days of thier lives to carry out the firey judgement . The load of hell was not made lighter as it is with those yoked with Christ.

It set up the pattern revealed by the first birth . . “death “. .The second “eternal life”. He used the second born represented by Abel again showing the first born had no value in the unseen thing of God Like that of Esau and Jacob. Esau seeing not value in spiritual things sold his birth rite for a cup of goat soul .Cain sold his for a little rest from hearing the gospel killed the prophet Abel the messenger and first recorded martyr. But could not kill the word of God that worked in Abel and Jacob as born again Israel to both will and empower them to do the good pleasure of God .

In that way we are to buy the truth of the gospel and not sell it for a cup of goat soup .

Revelation 13:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six

 

[Sue D.]

Well that would be eternal torture. Would ''you''' do that to your enemy?

Forget scripture, forget God, consider if ''you'' would ever do that to your enemy.

Well that would be eternal torture. Would ''you''' do that to your enemy?

Forget scripture, forget God, consider if ''you'' would ever do that to your enemy.

Would I do that to My enemy? Actually - we are supposed to be Praying for our enemies. We're not supposed to be seeing anyone as the 'enemy'. I don't think I see Anyone as being an enemy.

God is the only One who can declare what is just or not just.

Satan is very aware of where his eternal 'home' is going to be. That's why he wants as many people as possible to end up there with him. Satan is the enemy of God.

And it doesn't matter what I would do.

And 'we' had better Not 'forget' Scripture Or 'forget' God. Because That will result in a person ending up exactly where no one wants to be.

There Are parents who truly torture their own kids. It's unthinkable to sane people.

God warns Everyone in His Word about the wages of sin -- that we are all born sinners -- we deserve death. No one Deserves eternal life. That's what Adam and Eve and all their off-spring Would have had IF they had followed that one rule set before them. As it was , Before the flood, people were living Almost 1,000 years and Then dying.

IF we got what we Deserved -- we'd all be in that lake of fire and brimstone.

But God is merciful -- He gives us the One way to stay out of what YOU choose to call 'eternal torture'. God's Word uses the word 'torment' that Will continue on for eternity. That means it won't end. And that applies to Heaven, too.

And it's understandable that people want to soft-peddle the horrors of hell and then the lake of fire and brimstone. But it's Much better to make the Truth known so that people have educated choices to make.

Our personalities would have the serial killer / rapist suffer a Lot for their actions against others. And we'd have the nice person who's always obeyed the law and done good things in the community have a wonderful reward in heaven.

The thing is -- the serial killer / rapist Could Finally accept Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior at the last day of life and end up in heaven. And the wonderful, nice person who did all the wonderful things in the community would end up in hell simply because she / he was depending on their good works for heaven. But having Not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior , would end up In hell for ever. And it Might be in innocense that they did all those good things without purposely relying On those things. Like Mother Theresa -- her entire life of good works, self-sacrifice -- where will She spend eternity? If she accepted Jesus Christ as her personal Savior -- then , yes. I'm not RCC so I don't know if she's still alive or has died.

God is holy // God is merciful. And God is Just in all His ways.

 

[Sue D.]

@Garee -- since anihialation means that suffering has stopped -- then where does that leave a person. That would mean Death. And death means eternity Somewhere. No one simply ceases to exist. The physical body dies, but the soul lives on.

 

[Brad Huber]

You need to better discern.

We see God inflict pain on 1. His people (2 Cor 11:16-33) and 2. Those who are wicked but not yet sold out to wickedness (all the plagues).

The wicked reject God's plea's to repent like the people of Sodom, receive a swift execution.

The Levites fall into the category of 'His people'. He dealt with the Jews differently to all other races. When Jonah went to Nineveh he did not introduce, death by fire, stoning, excommunication etc. He just said ''repent, your sins are grievous, God is about to destroy you all''.

All God does points to Him being a good God. He puts pain on us to make us stronger. He uses plagues as a last ditch attempt to get the wicked to repent. His absolute enemy, receives a swift removal from earth to await a just and fair judgement day where all are judged and punished exactly according to what they did.

It is so important for us to properly represent God to the lost on matters of His wrath. To be lazy and get it wrong, is an utter Christianity fail.

LOL, you believe that anyone that doesnt agree with you needs to better discern. Yet you are always right, at least in your own mind. God is good, I agree, but.... what you consider evil torture and what God considers of the topic are not the same.

 

[KingJ]

LOL, you believe that anyone that doesnt agree with you needs to better discern. Yet you are always right, at least in your own mind.

Not my ''own'' mind. More English language blunders, cherry picking and naivety. Sometimes I think I am the only one who passed English.

God is good, I agree, but.... what you consider evil torture and what God considers of the topic are not the same.

I just cannot believe that you can say something so silly.

God has not got a separate code of ethics. Torture is torture. Right is right and wrong is wrong. We know what is right and wrong ''just as'' God and the angels do. It was a gift from God.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

If you read Gen 18, you will see that Abraham interrogated God on the destruction of Sodom.

God will always survive / come out righteous and just after the interrogation of a good person. Now in no universe, on no planet, in no mind with more then two brain cells working is a place of only horrors and torture evidence of righteousness.

A Christian should know God. Know that He is the literal epitome of the words ''Good, righteous, holy, light and just''.

 

[KingJ]

Would I do that to My enemy? Actually - we are supposed to be Praying for our enemies. We're not supposed to be seeing anyone as the 'enemy'. I don't think I see Anyone as being an enemy.

Stop being evasive.

 

[Garee]

@Garee -- since anihialation means that suffering has stopped -- then where does that leave a person. That would mean Death. And death means eternity Somewhere. No one simply ceases to exist. The physical body dies, but the soul lives on.

That does not ring true if you follow death to the end .Death is the end . dead things cease to exist. We look to a new heaven and earth as the bride of Christ the church .Not what we are as sons of God (male female Jew Gentile ) We know no man after the corupted flesh of mankind

When suffering the of wage of sin which is death through suffering ... in the end ones literally dies .They do not go to a place called everlasting purgatory. I would think because of the purgatory doctrine . . .turning things upside down it takes away the understanding of the Potter. Removing the sting of death .

Aug 19, 2019 — In 897, the corpse of a pope was exhumed—dead bonesto be put on trial. Known as the 'Cadaver Synod,' the posthumous trial of Pope Formosus .

Today dead man’s bones are still passed around the circuit taking away the sting of death. The finality of the last breath .That simply does despite to grace making it without effect (dead)

The temporal spirit of mankind given under the letter of the law death (thou shall no or you will die) returns to the father where it came from and the body of death returns to the dust form where they came. In the end of the world under the Sun those who have not received a new spirit that will never die are gone all that is left is a memory of them .they have no memory of things here . The letter of the law Death along with its suffering of hell will be cast in the spirit of judgment .The death of death itself called the second death. The letter of the law will not rise up again and corrupt another whole creation under the Sun

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Mankind dies once under the Sun. No double jeopardy

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We will not be judged twice as some might offer .. Again the first death by the . . letter of the law. The second death the death of that law. Tossing dead bones into a fire is not the first death .It only opens the way for purgatory doctrines .they simply falsely take away the sting of death” the suffering” or called thorn in the side .

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The death of death . Death will not rise ever again .

Hell the living sufering of dying. In that way what God calls one ( death and hell ) let no man call it a continuation after they take thier last breath . Vemerable Bones wil not be put on trial .

 

[Brad Huber]

Not my ''own'' mind. More English language blunders, cherry picking and naivety. Sometimes I think I am the only one who passed English.

I just cannot believe that you can say something so silly.

God has not got a separate code of ethics. Torture is torture. Right is right and wrong is wrong. We know what is right and wrong ''just as'' God and the angels do. It was a gift from God.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

If you read Gen 18, you will see that Abraham interrogated God on the destruction of Sodom.

God will always survive / come out righteous and just after the interrogation of a good person. Now in no universe, on no planet, in no mind with more then two brain cells working is a place of only horrors and torture evidence of righteousness.

A Christian should know God. Know that He is the literal epitome of the words ''Good, righteous, holy, light and just''.

You dont get to decide what is torture and what is not. You really dont get to decide a whole lot, especially anything thats important. God has that distinction. Learn to be humble and God will be more proud of you as His son.

 

[Sue D.]

@ KingJ -- Brad Huber has summed up my thoughts pretty well in his response to you. But I'd like to add my comments. You put yourself on a pedistal that neither you or anyone belongs on. You are presenting yourself as an expert in the English language.

It's not a matter of God 'surviving' anything. God Is righteous in all His ways. He's omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.

You try to put God on our level. Or maybe on a super-human level.

You brought up Gen 3:22 -- and, yes, it Is part of God's Word. It's the Context -- Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating that fruit. God's apparent plan was for Adam and Eve and the future rest of the world, to be able to live in innocence. God had created a beautiful, perfect world for them and us. Satan got into the picture and lured them into eating of it and Then they knew good from evil. Because of satan -- mankind is capable of extreme evil as well as a great deal of Good. But evilness seems to trump. And then, vs 22 and 23. God also knew that if they were allowed to eat from the tree of life -- they would live forever in a sinful state of being. So God sent them Out of that beautiful garden and put cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life." And God already knew this would take place and His plan was to provide for our salvation through Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sins. The cross would bridge the gap between us and God.

You refer to the Gen 18 section as Abraham interrogating God. Take time to read the section of Scripture leading up To that conversation, as well as the actual conversation. Abraham was approaching the Lord with humility with his request. The Lord God was willing to listen to him because of Abrahams' heart.

And your comment regarding "no mind with more then two brain cells working " is really very well............ "a place of only horrors and torture evidence of righteousness." You are setting yourself up as a 'know-it-all' or a 'superior' person. Maybe a touch of 'arrogance'. None of which is flattering -- and which is fairly unChrist-like.

Brad closed his post by suggesting that you "learn to be humble and that God will be more proud of you as His son." Personally, I question whether or not you really Are a born again believer which would make you 'His son' -- Not the Son of God, but a child of God as a result of your salvation.

 

[Sue D.]

That does not ring true if you follow death to the end .Death is the end . dead things cease to exist. We look to a new heaven and earth as the bride of Christ the church .Not what we are as sons of God (male female Jew Gentile ) We know no man after the corupted flesh of mankind

When suffering the of wage of sin which is death through suffering ... in the end ones literally dies .They do not go to a place called everlasting purgatory. I would think because of the purgatory doctrine . . .turning things upside down it takes away the understanding of the Potter. Removing the sting of death .

Aug 19, 2019 — In 897, the corpse of a pope was exhumed—dead bonesto be put on trial. Known as the 'Cadaver Synod,' the posthumous trial of Pope Formosus .

Today dead man’s bones are still passed around the circuit taking away the sting of death. The finality of the last breath .That simply does despite to grace making it without effect (dead)

The temporal spirit of mankind given under the letter of the law death (thou shall no or you will die) returns to the father where it came from and the body of death returns to the dust form where they came. In the end of the world under the Sun those who have not received a new spirit that will never die are gone all that is left is a memory of them .they have no memory of things here . The letter of the law Death along with its suffering of hell will be cast in the spirit of judgment .The death of death itself called the second death. The letter of the law will not rise up again and corrupt another whole creation under the Sun

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Mankind dies once under the Sun. No double jeopardy

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We will not be judged twice as some might offer .. Again the first death by the . . letter of the law. The second death the death of that law. Tossing dead bones into a fire is not the first death .It only opens the way for purgatory doctrines .they simply falsely take away the sting of death” the suffering” or called thorn in the side .

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The death of death . Death will not rise ever again .

Hell the living sufering of dying. In that way what God calls one ( death and hell ) let no man call it a continuation after they take thier last breath . Vemerable Bones wil not be put on trial .

The Old Testament law was never meant to save anyone -- merely to show mankind that it's impossible to Keep all those laws all the time. Guilty of one meant being guilty of them All.

This earthy body will die -- decompose. But the soul lives on forever. And at the rapture of the Church -- those in the grave will arise 1st and then we who are live at that time will follow immediately. The born again believers will receive a glorified body like Jesus had when he resurrected from the dead on the 3rd day.

Those who died without Christ will also be raised for judgement.

You seem to be spiritualizing Scripture -- you are using the term "Sun" rather than 'Son'.

And, Death and Hell will be alive and be judged according to their lives. That suggests varying degrees of suffering in the lake of fire and brimstone. It also says that death, as we know it, doesn't exist any more.

Jesus Christ died on the cross -- His body was very messed up. And He rose again on the 3rd day. His bruised/ messed up body did not remain dead. He ascended back up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father.

You closed your post with " death death. Death. But in actuality -- 'death' turns into life. Either in the New Jerusalem that God will bring down to earth OR in the lake of fire and brimstone. And the decision is ours.

 

[B-A-C]

he Old Testament law was never meant to save anyone -- merely to show mankind that it's impossible to Keep all those laws all the time. Guilty of one meant being guilty of them All.

..and yet many saints "were" saved during the old testament. The Bible names 5 or 6 people that followed the law perfectly and blamelessly. There are some people in the Bible, that it never says they sinned anywhere.
Noah, Job, Zacharias and Elizabeth, Abraham, Cornelius, and even Joseph. David wasn't perfect, but he is called a man "after God's own heart".

I agree with you, they weren't actually "saved" until Jesus died and rose again. But following the symbolism of the Old Testament, proved your faith in God.
Hebrews 11 mentions many of the Hero's of the faith. Rahab, Barak, Samson, Noah, Abraham, and a few others. I take it these people were "saved". Elijah and Moses were with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.
Jesus says we will dine at the table with Abraham and Isaac. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. These people are still alive. (obviously not physically in Earthly bodies)

I wonder if you could show me a scripture that says it's impossible to keep the commandments?

You mention that the law was "merely to show mankind that it's impossible" to the keep the commandments. I sincerely doubt it says that anywhere in the Bible.
Yes breaking one is like breaking them all. ( James 2:10; ) but the Bible doesn't say we have to keep breaking them after we are saved.

Gal 3:23; But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Gal 3:24; Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25; But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Rom 2:13; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Rom 2:14; For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15; in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

Rom 2:26; So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

Rom 8:7; because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Rom 13:8; Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Rom 13:10; Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The law teaches us how to love. This is what Paul meant in Gal 3:24; If we aren't murdering, stealing from, lying to, cheating with spouses, etc... we 'ARE' loving them.
Jesus said the same thing. ( Matt 22:40; )

One thing that is confusing to some people, the new testament says the "law" won't save us. But yet we are told to keep the commandments over a dozen times.
Yes the commandments were a part of the law. But in all the verses about not being under the law, it's not talking about the commandments, it's talking about the 600 plus
rules of the Talmud, stoning people, sacrificng animals, circumcision, confessing to priests, carrying a certain weight on Sabbath (if it required two fingers to lift, it was work)
We still have to keep the commandments. Some of us don't keep them perfectly, yes there is mercy, grace, forgiveness. But if we give up and just say I can't do it, I might as well sin
like everyone else. The Bible says there is no longer a sacrifice for those people.
A while back there was thread on overcoming. Those who overcome reign with Christ and get rewards, those who don't are thrown out. At some point we have to overcome.

Paul says the purpose of the law, was to teach us what sin was.

Rom 7:7; What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."

1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Jn 3:2; Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
1Jn 3:3; And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1Jn 3:4; Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5; You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6; No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
1Jn 3:7; Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
1Jn 3:8; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9; No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10; By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[Sue D.]

@B-A-C -- my comment was that following the law never saved anyone -- if guilty of breaking one -- then guilty of breaking them All.

The righteousness -- placing their faith in the Future. Noah was found to be righteous in God's eyes.

Have just been reading the rest of your post.

Looking at Galations 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."

Galatians 3:6 "just as Abraham 'believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Well -- if it was possible to keep all the commandments all the time -- the cross wouldn't have been needed, would it? Wouldn't that mean that all our good works would save us? But we have Ephesians 2:8-9 -- Not of works , lest any one should boast.

Or are keeping the commandments different than doing good works For salvation?!

Just found the passage I was looking for earlier -- Galatians 3:21- 26 -- "But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. vs 25 "but after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor ( the law) vs 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

A born again believer will not be Practicing sin. And it's true that there are those who seem to live pretty good lives. But there is probably a thought or two that lingers in a person's mind that shouldn't be there. Or taking that 2nd look -- would be a sin. Getting mad at the dog next door that barks at night that kept you awake. or woke up the baby who Finally fell asleep. The tiny things that we don't even think of As 'sin' is.

Also another passage came to mind --Mark 12: 28 - 31. "Which is the 1st commandment of all ....... "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and all your strength vs 31 "And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment great than these."

So -- no there probably isn't a Scripture that says it isn't impossible to keep all the commandments. But it Does tell us that if a person breaks one, they are guilty of All. Which is basically saying the same thing , isn't it?

 

[Garee]

The Old Testament law was never meant to save anyone -- merely to show mankind that it's impossible to Keep all those laws all the time. Guilty of one meant being guilty of them All.

This earthy body will die -- decompose. But the soul lives on forever. And at the rapture of the Church -- those in the grave will arise 1st and then we who are live at that time will follow immediately. The born again believers will receive a glorified body like Jesus had when he resurrected from the dead on the 3rd day.

Those who died without Christ will also be raised for judgement.

You seem to be spiritualizing Scripture -- you are using the term "Sun" rather than 'Son'.

And, Death and Hell will be alive and be judged according to their lives. That suggests varying degrees of suffering in the lake of fire and brimstone. It also says that death, as we know it, doesn't exist any more.

Jesus Christ died on the cross -- His body was very messed up. And He rose again on the 3rd day. His bruised/ messed up body did not remain dead. He ascended back up to heaven to sit at the right hand of God the Father.

You closed your post with " death death. Death. But in actuality -- 'death' turns into life. Either in the New Jerusalem that God will bring down to earth OR in the lake of fire and brimstone. And the decision is ours.

Thanks

If death is dead never to rise to new spirit life. How could it turn into the breath of life? reincarnation? Death as the letter the law with its suferings "hell " Death will never rises up and condem thorugh corruption "dying" another whole creation . No purgatory for death

The Old Testament law was never meant to save anyone –according to the letter it produced death. Not dying but rather. . . dead never to rise to new spirit life. Corrupting or dying till the end of the matter . . .death. . .

Ezekiel 11:19And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

In that way it is a picture of the father working in the Son. Three days and nights in the heart of the earth which represents the blood of Abel 's suffering on the last part of that three day demonstration, in the tomb hidden from sight . The father did not let him see the end of suffering by corruption called “death” The kind of death that will nor rise up.never to rise to new spirit life.

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

His soul is suffering the living pangs of hell not dead never to rise The Father kept it from death never to rise up. The father and Son together working as one they maintained and finished rolling aside the stone .

The Son of Man the prophet Jesus ( Savior) said . . Not as I will according to the flesh .Father. . but according to the power of your unseen eternal Spiirt . It would sem to establish the government of God . . . the government of perfect peace . Two working as one. The marriage of the lamb.

That veil will be lifted up that reveals the new bride It was rent from the top to the bottom when Jesus said it is finished and gave up the ghost .There was no face in the holy of holies the end had not come the time of great tribulation began no outward face to identify with No kings in Israel under the Pagan foundation .Out of sight out of mind .no God .Christians walk by faith not by sight

When we do receive the promise of the new incorruptible bodies our living hope .As sons of God (Christians) we are not what we will be. . We have a living hope that works in us it will not disappoint those who walk in it.

I would offer it would seem to be supported . . .holiness as power is not offered in lieu of the flesh of Jesus the first born of God. In John 6 He replied his flesh profits for nothing and that it’s the unseen Spirit that gives spirit life. Holiness of the Spirit is the power of the two needed for the promised demonstration. .yes

It would seem to be the subject of reasoning in Romans 1 introducing the mutual faith of Christ that works in all who believe his understanding, as it is written form faith (the unseen) to faith the gospel . Again not sure how it sounds but it rings true I believe. No power is attributed to the flesh of Jesus . No thing called holiness of the flesh, or at least of its own (the temporal things seen). Holiness of the unseen Spirit, the power that worked with the two. (father and son . Jeopardizing suffering its own power giving us a new spirit . That would also help to understand the metaphor in the parable to “drink the blood” of mankind. Three working as one power. If interested I can offer it. .

Romans 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

No holiness of flesh .God is not a man . no power by birth power by the resurection showing new birth

Power is attributed to the Spirit .The father of all spirit life.

 

[Sue D.]

@Garee -- do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? What belief system do you identify with?

 

[B-A-C]

it Does tell us that if a person breaks one, they are guilty of All. Which is basically saying the same thing , isn't it?

Or does it simply mean what it says?
If you break a single one, you're just as guilty as if you broke all of them, so don't break any f them.