Is Christ GOD the FATHER in the flesh?
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Ivar
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Are you able to explain? Does the verses I use negate scripture?
I'm using scripture to negate scripture?
JesusIs4Me
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"They" are One God, but Jesus is not the Father since He identifies Himself as separate from the Father as Another Person as Jesus also separates Himself from the Holy Spirit in signifying the Spirit as Another Person, but "They" as the Three Witnesses in Heaven are the One God..
Jesus prayed to the Father citing His will be done when requesting the cup being taken from Him, and so They are not the same Person, but They are the same One God.
Bendito
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He identifies Himself as a different facet of the same gem.
JesusIs4Me
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Jesus cannot bear testimony of Himself; John 5:31 KJV
Only Another can bear testimony of the Son; John 7:18 KJV
For that testimony to be true; there has to be Two Witnesses for that One. John 8:17 KJV
That is why God the Father & the Holy Spirit bore separate witness for the Son that He is God at His water baptism in Matthew 3:15-17 KJV
This was in fulfillment of the prophesy of Isaiah 48:16-17 KJV of the God speaking in Isaiah being sent by the Lord God and His Spirit.
In these scriptures is All three:
Matthew 3:16-17
[16]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[17]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:16-17
[16]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[17]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
JesusIs4Me
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1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
Bible versions that remove verse 7 makes verse 9 meaningless. It was more than likely removed because of some assemblies having trouble grasping the Triune God in scripture whereas 1 John 5:7 is more outright proclaiming the Triune God.
Here is a short research espose one can look up yourself in finding extra biblical evidence that 1 John 5:7 originally belonged in scripture at the link provided below.
Does 1 John 5:7 belong in the Bible?
Ivar
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Belly now filled with pizza :grin:
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1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.
2. and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
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1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;
2. and the head of Christ is God.
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Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
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Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Not Before us.
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John 1:18 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1. Man no see God
2. Man see Son
3. = Son no God
4. AT ANY TIME!!!!
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Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me
1. From the beginning; not before the beginning because
2. Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
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2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
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Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
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@Bendito
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.
2. and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
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1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;
2. and the head of Christ is God.
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Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
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Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Not Before us.
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John 1:18 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1. Man no see God
2. Man see Son
3. = Son no God
4. AT ANY TIME!!!!
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Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me
1. From the beginning; not before the beginning because
2. Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
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2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
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Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
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Ivar
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Is the Son of God, The Son of God because he came in the flesh, or because he was begotten of God in the beginning?
Also where did Mainstream Christianity get their understanding from? How many true saints had to be persecuted/ slain and doctrine hidden for Christianity to incorporate pagan elements?: or Are the rumors true and it was always like this?
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Is the Son of God, The Son of God because he came in the flesh, or because he was begotten of God in the beginning?
Also where did Mainstream Christianity get their understanding from? How many true saints had to be persecuted/ slain and doctrine hidden for Christianity to incorporate pagan elements?: or Are the rumors true and it was always like this?
Hebrews 1:9
[9]Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
If a man have a son, is he his son?
Or is his son him?
Are they two seperate people?
The son is from the Father!
[9]Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
If a man have a son, is he his son?
Or is his son him?
Are they two seperate people?
The son is from the Father!
JesusIs4Me
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Three Witnesses as in Three Persons within the One God BUT the only way to approach God the Father to honor Him in worship is by only honoring the Son John 14:6 KJV & especially John 5:22-23 KJV That is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship and the obedience Paul was talking about to have in worship in Philippians 2:5-13 KJV The role of the Holy Spirit is to testify of the Son in John 15:26 KJV to glorify the Son John 16:14 KJV and He does that thru us, especially in worship John 15:27 KJV
It is because of sinners that worship spirits in the world and because of the spirits of the antichrist that are in the world is why all invitations in coming to God the Father in anything is still by the only way of the Son; John 14:6 KJV not by way of the Holy Spirit or by way of the "Trinity" as the name of the Son is above every other name to the glory of God the Father.
Those who would contend must answer the question; those who claim certain movements of the spirit are not of the Lord but of the devil like slain in the spirit and holy laughter where confusion reigns, which God is not the author of, why would God allow it to happen when focus was on the Holy Spirit in worship? The only answer Biblically given is by not heeding His words to narrow the way to the straight gate. Matthew 7:13-14 KJV & Luke 13:24 KJV and that is why they fall in Mathew 7:24-27 KJV regardless of the "miracles" cited in Matthew 7:21-23 KJV and Luke 13:25-30 KJV of feeling His Presence in the worship place when holding communion.
Keep your eyes on the Son in worship, because when the Bridegroom comes. guess where your focus will be on in Heaven in worship? That is right. The Bridegroom... to the glory of God the Father.
Ivar
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This is when John used the term "is" . Not in John 1:1 but John 1:34
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Also this is those who overcometh the world
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
not is God but is the Son of God. Coincidence!!!??? Only to the Trinitarians
Why does this matter? Trinitarians might never know until day of Judgement.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The will of the father is putting respect on his name 'Deu 6:4 & Ecc 12:13 " Nevertheless these Trinitarians don't put no respect on his name. :crying:
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
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I got a video clip to illustrate this point but unfortunately it can't be shared here
Ivar
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Definition of WITNESS
to have personal or direct cognizance of : see for oneself
No one is saying their is not three that bear witness in heaven
Neither is one saying there is not three that bear witness on earth.
what scriptures are saying is
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
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not one three; not one in three quarters; not one in five eights but One; or
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
JesusIs4Me
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Can God be a hypocrite, brother?
If by His words, He demands of men that there be two witnesses to establish a testimony as true John 8:17 KJV and that no witness can testify of himself or else it is a false witness as Jesus even applied that to Himself ( John 5:31 KJV ) so how can God establish a word in creation or judge any one unless.. by His own words, testifies to how God as the Triune God establish a word in creation and judges men by. There is a reference to plurality within the One God for the act of creating man in Their image and for judging the men at the tower of Babylon in spreading them abroad by confounding their one language.
Ivar
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@JesusIs4Me let's break down the verses you are using to substantiate Trinity
John 8:17 & John 5:31
First:
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. :grin:
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Second:
Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
True and in actuality
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
also
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
and
Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
what was said thru Moses?
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
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CHRIST explains:
John 16:27-28
[27]For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28]I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
The Trinity is False doctrine and man made not Biblical!
2 Timothy 4:3
[3]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
John 16:27-28
[27]For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28]I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
The Trinity is False doctrine and man made not Biblical!
2 Timothy 4:3
[3]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
