Bendito
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Well....Simply decide to endure sound doctrine....you'll be all right.
Is Christ GOD the FATHER in the flesh?
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Ivar
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@Lacawar
Don't think the Triune worshippers going to understand these scriptures
John 4:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV)
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Don't think the Triune worshippers going to understand these scriptures
John 4:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV)
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Bendito
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Why would Christians who believe God is a triune being not understand these verses?
Bendito
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Stop patronizing and answer the question
Ivar
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@Bendito
Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
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1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
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1/1 = 1
1/1= 1
1/3= .33
3/1= 3
Method to the madness;
1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
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Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
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Based off your words in this entire thread; one who believes in Deu 6:4 and Mark 6:4 can only assume it's a math related concern or a definition related concern
Perhaps if you understand the math problems you may further understand
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
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Math class is over; Now English Class
Definition of ONE
Definition of ALL
Definition of HIERARCHY
One more time Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
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I've already researched that triune doctrine and i am aware of certain individuals who were excommunicated, killed, persecuted, labeled heresy for it to spread uncontested.
I speak from the volume of the book. Law of Moses and Faith of Christ.
Does the scriptures not say?
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 King James Version (KJV)
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
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Lastly even though I answered your questions and you may have not liked the answer; I noticed that you attempted to answer none of mine.
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Bendito
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Not worth my time
Ivar
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@Bendito
I accept your defeat. Not the most graceful but I understand
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
I on the other hand am ready to Glorify the Oneness and Sovereignty of the Heavenly Father in this thread if you do find the time. :smile::shades:
I did give you a lesson fit for an infant concerning the oneness of the Heavenly Father;
so when you do find the time make sure to use calculator if need one also you can use Merriam-Webster: America's most-trusted online dictionary
" it is said to be America's most trusted online dictionary for English word definitions, meanings, and pronunciation."
also check out
Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
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With the
of Christ ImmanuelIvar
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But unfortunately you seemed to have put me in a position where i have to spareth the rod; even though i did not want to.:crying:
Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
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Bendito
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Don't tell me you're not here to argue and be right! I never said I concede. I said this "argument" is not worth my time. And I think its not worth my time talking to you farther. I don't need the stress of constant arguing.@Bendito
I accept your defeat. Not the most graceful but I understand
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
I on the other hand am ready to Glorify the Oneness and Sovereignty of the Heavenly Father in this thread if you do find the time. :smile::shades:
I did give you a lesson fit for an infant concerning the oneness of the Heavenly Father;
so when you do find the time make sure to use calculator if need one also you can use Merriam-Webster: America's most-trusted online dictionary
" it is said to be America's most trusted online dictionary for English word definitions, meanings, and pronunciation."
also check out
Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
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With the
Ivar
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But unfortunately you seemed to have put me in a position where i have to spareth the rod; even though i did not want to.:crying:
Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
All praises to AHAYAH BA HASHAM YASHAYAH WA RAACH!
Bendito, I asked earlier for you to define Triune as you use it, still waiting for the answer.
As CHRIST said
John 4:22
[22]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Bendito, I asked earlier for you to define Triune as you use it, still waiting for the answer.
As CHRIST said
John 4:22
[22]Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
JesusIs4Me
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Are you yet insinuating that the One God is wearing three different kinds of hats as in 3 different titles that He alone switches out conveniently? If so, I disagree.
Your definition of witness as provided at the link has other definitions that hardly equates as all being applied at once in real life. One would see a man exchanging hats as deceptive when he is pretending to be somebody else entirely. God is not like a man that He would lie. Numbers 23:19 KJV
Outside the reality of our universe is the realm where God dwells and how we perceive God is not how mankind usually perceive the "gods". There are Three Persons within the One God and although the Spirit of God cannot speak for Himself but speaks what He hears ( John 16:13 KJV ), God the Father hears the silent intercessions of the Spirit by the Son knowing His mind which is according to the will of God ( Romans 8:26-27 KJV ) since only the Son serves as a Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ( 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV ) at that throne of grace ( Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV ) for He answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 KJV ), and the Holy Spirit will give all credit & glory to the Son for answers to prayers; John 16:13-15 KJV.
The Father judges no one, and yet all judgment has been rendered unto the Son by how we honor the Father by; the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father in worship; John 5:22-23 KJV That means when believers worship the Holy Spirit, even with the Father & the Son, they are not honoring the Father at all. The only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son as God can only be glorified by glorifying the Son in worship John 13:31-32 This is the obedience Paul is talking about in how we are to have this mind of Christ in worship in Philippians 2:5-13 KJV and so it is considered disobedience by not having that mind of Christ in worship when exalting the Trinity or the Holy Spirit in worship.
If God was exchanging hats, or titles, then how we worship would not matter in according to His words, but in according to His words, it does matter how we approach God the Father in honoring Him in worship because the only way to honor the Father in worship is to honor the Son. John 14:6 KJV Jesus said it and meant it that way, and believers need His help to see His words to narrow the way back to the Son in worship or else; Luke 13:24-30 KJV
JesusIs4Me
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Point is; God requires two witnesses for a testimony to be true and when He referenced the law in regards to men, naturally He used men as applying to the law of the two witnesses.
Since God created man in His image whereby the request to create man was in "Their" image, that succinctly testify to God the Father & God the Son having an image for by how the request was made to create man in "our" image.
If we need to go directly to God demanding of men on how one establish a testimony, let alone to judge any one...
Deuteronomy 17: 6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
As God is not a hypocrite, then as He commands men to do is because that is what the Triune God does too in establishing a word in creation and judging any one like He did the people at the tower of Babel when He requested "Let us go down..". paraphrased
No, brother. Deuteronomy 18:18-22 KJV in context is referring to all the prophets the Lord has raised up from among the brethren, as that would include John the Baptist.
What Jesus meant about Moses having written about Him was that He was the God that men had seen in the O.T. like when Abraham had seen "Jesus" back in his day as Moses was seeing Jesus before His incarnation.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Genesis 18:1And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground
He appeared to Isaac;
Genesis 26:1And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. 2 And the Lord appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
He appeared unto Jacob;
Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
So when Jesus had said this below... that was what He meant about Moses having written of Him.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life......46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
They did not believe His words as referenced earlier in this post about Abraham meeting Him, and they had sought to stone Him for claiming to be the God that Abraham had seen in his day.
Ivar
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Your Response:
Are you yet insinuating that the One God is wearing three different kinds of hats as in 3 different titles that He alone switches out conveniently? If so, I disagree.
My Response:
Is questions like this that make me appear smart-donkey
I specifically said " not one three; not one in three quarters; not one in five eights but One; or
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. "
However I know with Trinitarians / Triunes ; that this is hard speech. Everything must look like triangle " three sides in one shape"
Your Response:
Your definition of witness as provided at the link has other definitions that hardly equates as all being applied at once in real life. One would see a man exchanging hats as deceptive when he is pretending to be somebody else entirely. God is not like a man that He would lie.
My Respone:
Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
A witness is someone or many who are present to witness something, at the start of that something; therefore that witness or witnesses can bear witness;
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You mentioned: Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
You overlooked: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak
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You Mentioned:
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
You overlooked:
maketh intercession for us according to the will of God
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You Mentioned
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
You overlooked:
:grin: I don't want to be called smart-donkey so up to you to figure out.
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You Mentioned:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
You overlooked:
the Son of God
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You Mentioned:
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
You should read entire Chapter to get full context
emphasis on
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
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Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
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Ivar
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@JesusIs4Me
You should be confessing that Christ is the Son of God.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
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Stop taking the words of the Disciples and the Apostles out of context.
Christ himself spoke of who the only True God is
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
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So because the Son ascended his doctrine has changed?
You should be confessing that Christ is the Son of God.
1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
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Stop taking the words of the Disciples and the Apostles out of context.
Christ himself spoke of who the only True God is
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
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So because the Son ascended his doctrine has changed?
Bendito
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Ok....So let me explain it this way. Your attitude seems to be one of "I know everything. Everybody is of a lower stature than me. You seem to be quite arrogant and narcissistic, expecting everybody to agree with you. Yet you "prove" your points with scriptures that do not match what you are saying, which tells me that you form your opinions then expect the Word to confirm that opinion, faulty as it may be. The problem is Ivar. You're wrong in most of your opinions, and misquoting scripture does not make you right.
Usually, I have no problem whatsoever getting along with anybody, and I'm more than willing to get along with you. The thing is though, you don't seem to want that. You seem to want to be the wise man on the block, the one who teaches everybody. You are too proud to be that teacher my friend. Too out of line with the Word for that. Sorry. You'd better leave that to the Holy Spirit to teach and bow your knee to Him and start learning yourself. I would have no trouble at all learning from you if you knew what you were talking about.
I'm sure you are a very religious man Ivar, but knowing about God, as you think you do, is NOT knowing Him.
Bendito
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I'm sorry Lacawar, your answer.
Man is made in the image of God, right? Body soul and spirit....well actually spirit, soul, and body. So I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body. My spirit has my intelligence, my soul (mind) has the intelligence it needs to run my body, breathing, balance, work etc. And my body is without its own intelligence being a carrier for my soul and spirit. God is Spirit, soul and body as well. The difference is....His three parts share His intelligence and are detachable.
I hope I put that in a coherent sentence. If not I'll try again. Right now I have waaay too much blood in my caffeine stream.
Ivar
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@Bendito
That's quite extensive.
Are all those complete facts and truth?
Or is their any bit of preconceived notions and feelings in there?
I don't teach I only share my opinions thru scripture.
You are free to accept, reject, ignore, etc.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Bendito
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Uh...Yeah. You'd better get your opinions from scripture....WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY? Thats what's important....If your opinion does not match the Word, I'm not interested in it. And most often it does not....the scriptures you use to back you up don't even match what you are saying. They come out of context, unrelated in many cases.
Ivar
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@Bendito
is not always good to wear your feelings on your sleeve.
I find it interesting how you make blind accusations but give no specifics
Let me Guess your words: "Not worth my time "
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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