Is God One or is He Three?

[First and the Last]

What YOU called the same Essence IS YHVH. The error compared to Nicea and all ante-Nicean theology is making the Father, the Word/Son, and Spirit three different yet corporate Ousias as opposed to the One Ousia that has revealed Himself in three Hypostases.

The UPC believe these are all Jesus. (as stated many times in the works of David Bernard and others). They are clearly incorrect.

In response to the assertion that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all manifestations of Jesus and that this belief is incorrect, it's important to clarify the theological perspective of Oneness Pentecostalism. The Bible teaches that God is singular in His divine essence and reveals Himself uniquely as Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit. These are different manifestations or modes of the one God.

From this perspective, the Son (Jesus Christ) holds a central role as the divine manifestation in the flesh. Jesus Christ is not merely a manifestation of God but is God Himself incarnate (John 1:1, 14). The Son, as Jesus Christ, represents the fullness of God's divine nature revealed to humanity. In Him, the divine and human natures are united, and He serves as the mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5).

This understanding emphasizes that Jesus Christ is God Himself revealed in human form for the purpose of redemption and salvation. This perspective aligns with Scriptures that affirm Jesus Christ as the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and as the exact representation of God's being (Hebrews 1:3). Therefore, while the Bible acknowledges the distinct roles of Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit, they are seen as different aspects or expressions of the same divine essence. God is Father in creation, Son in redemption, and Holy Spirit in regeneration.

 

[First and the Last]

When I was lost and without God in my life, separated from Him by my sin, I heard the Gospel of Christ and accepted Him as my Savior. Through Christ I came into fellowship with God the Father.

Then someone comes along and tells me that relationship with God the Father is based on a mode of Christ role playing the Father. They further try to tell me the true nature of God the Father is in one person (Jesus Christ) who is role playing the Father.

The understanding is not that Jesus Christ is role-playing as the Father or that the relationship with God the Father is based on a mere mode or role of Jesus. Rather, the Bible affirm that Jesus Christ is God incarnate—the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). They believe that Jesus Christ is the visible manifestation of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the exact representation of God's being (Hebrews 1:3).

According to this perspective, God revealed Himself to humanity in different ways: as Father in creation, as Son in redemption, and as Holy Spirit in indwelling believers. These manifestations are different roles or modes through which the one God interacts with humanity. Jesus Christ, as the Son, is the revelation of God's love and grace to humanity. Through His life, death, and resurrection, Jesus reconciled humanity to God, fulfilling the role of both mediator and Savior.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Therefore, it's not accurate to say that Oneness Pentecostals believe Jesus Christ is merely role-playing as the Father or that the Father's true nature is somehow hidden within Jesus. Rather, Jesus Christ is understood as God Himself who took on human form to reveal His love, mercy, and plan of salvation to humanity. This understanding emphasizes the unity and oneness of God while affirming the distinct roles or manifestations through which God interacts with His creation.

 

[Charlie24]

The understanding is not that Jesus Christ is role-playing as the Father or that the relationship with God the Father is based on a mere mode or role of Jesus. Rather, the Bible affirm that Jesus Christ is God incarnate—the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). They believe that Jesus Christ is the visible manifestation of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the exact representation of God's being (Hebrews 1:3).

According to this perspective, God revealed Himself to humanity in different ways: as Father in creation, as Son in redemption, and as Holy Spirit in indwelling believers. These manifestations are different roles or modes through which the one God interacts with humanity. Jesus Christ, as the Son, is the revelation of God's love and grace to humanity. Through His life, death, and resurrection, Jesus reconciled humanity to God, fulfilling the role of both mediator and Savior.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me."

Therefore, it's not accurate to say that Oneness Pentecostals believe Jesus Christ is merely role-playing as the Father or that the Father's true nature is somehow hidden within Jesus. Rather, Jesus Christ is understood as God Himself who took on human form to reveal His love, mercy, and plan of salvation to humanity. This understanding emphasizes the unity and oneness of God while affirming the distinct roles or manifestations through which God interacts with His creation.

Oneness denies 3 distinct persons of the Godhead. It states that Jesus Christ is the one God who manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit.

If there is only one person, then the true nature of God rests in this one person. This is what we are rejecting.

 

[First and the Last]

Oneness denies 3 distinct persons of the Godhead. It states that Jesus Christ is the one God who manifests Himself as the Father or the Holy Spirit.

If there is only one person, then the true nature of God rests in this one person. This is what we are rejecting.

There is only one God who reveals Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit in regeneration. Is this wrong?

Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the one true God—the complete and perfect revelation of the divine nature in human form. Is this wrong?

The fullness of God's nature and identity is revealed and expressed in the person of Jesus Christ, who is understood as the singular embodiment of the one true God. Is this wrong?

 

[Charlie24]

There is only one God who reveals Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit in regeneration. Is this wrong?

Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the one true God—the complete and perfect revelation of the divine nature in human form. Is this wrong?

The fullness of God's nature and identity is revealed and expressed in the person of Jesus Christ, who is understood as the singular embodiment of the one true God. Is this wrong?

How many times did Christ say "the Father has sent me, I can do nothing of myself, only what He has told me?"

Christ is the representative of the Triune God to man in the form of man. He is not the one person, but a member of the Triune God.

What you're explaining is a total disrespect of the true nature of God!

 

[Bill Taylor]

I know when we will know beyond all doubt... those of us filling the ranks of the
redeemed, when I am there, if I were wrong believing in Yehovah's Triune Being, He'll teach me so... all of us, really. 'Til then I worship.

 

[Charlie24]

I know when we will know beyond all doubt... those of us filling the ranks of the
redeemed, when I am there, if I were wrong believing in Yehovah's Triune Being, He'll teach me so... all of us, really. 'Til then I worship.

There is a reason why God didn't make clear the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

We can only guess at that reason, but salvation is not dependent on this knowledge.

 

[First and the Last]

There is only one God who reveals Himself as Father in creation, Son in redemption (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit in regeneration. Is this wrong?

Jesus Christ is the incarnation of the one true God—the complete and perfect revelation of the divine nature in human form. Is this wrong?

The fullness of God's nature and identity is revealed and expressed in the person of Jesus Christ, who is understood as the singular embodiment of the one true God. Is this wrong?

How many times did Christ say "the Father has sent me, I can do nothing of myself, only what He has told me?"

Christ is the representative of the Triune God to man in the form of man. He is not the one person, but a member of the Triune God.

What you're explaining is a total disrespect of the true nature of God!

I was looking for a direct response to my statements. True or False

How many times did Christ say "the Father has sent me, I can do nothing of myself, only what He has told me?"

In understanding the way Jesus speaks in this Scripture and others, Jesus, being fully human and fully divine. When Jesus (God in flesh) speaks from His humanity, he often expresses emotions, needs, and limitations that are characteristic of human experience. For example, when he prays in anguish at Gethsemane (Matthew 26:39), or when he expresses hunger (Matthew 4:2), these are instances where his human nature is evident. In these moments, Jesus demonstrates his identification with humanity, experiencing what we experience.

 

[Charlie24]

I was looking for a direct response to my statements. True or False


In understanding the way Jesus speaks in this Scripture and others, Jesus, being fully human and fully divine. When Jesus (God in flesh) speaks from His humanity, he often expresses emotions, needs, and limitations that are characteristic of human experience. For example, when he prays in anguish at Gethsemane (Matthew 26:39), or when he expresses hunger (Matthew 4:2), these are instances where his human nature is evident. In these moments, Jesus demonstrates his identification with humanity, experiencing what we experience.

In response to your statements, they are false in the way you are interpreting them. I totally disagree, I think I made that clear.

You are acknowledging Christ as a person in His humanity, that we agree.

What you're denying is the person of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

If there is only one person as you claim, that in no way fits into Scripture.

We've been over this several times, no need to continue repeating ourselves.

The truth is, the overwhelming majority of Protestants and all of the Catholics see your belief as heresy.

 

[First and the Last]

In response to your statements, they are false in the way you are interpreting them. I totally disagree, I think I made that clear.

You are acknowledging Christ as a person in His humanity, that we agree.

What you're denying is the person of the Father and the Holy Spirit.

If there is only one person as you claim, that in no way fits into Scripture.

We've been over this several times, no need to continue repeating ourselves.

The truth is, the overwhelming majority of Protestants and all of the Catholics see your belief as heresy.

Today, those who believe in both the indivisible oneness of God and the full deity of Jesus Christ frequently use the term “Oneness” to describe their belief. They also use the terms “One God” and “Jesus Name” as adjectives to label themselves, while opponents sometimes use the misleading or derogatory designations “Jesus Only” and “New Issue.” (The label “Jesus Only” is misleading because to trinitarians it implies a denial of the Father and the Holy Spirit. However, Oneness believers do not deny the Father and Spirit, but rather see them through the face of Jesus Christ.)

The phrase "face of Jesus Christ" appears in 2 Corinthians 4:6 "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ"

This scripture highlights how the glory of God is revealed in the face of Jesus Christ, emphasizing the divine nature and the illuminating presence of Jesus. It underscores that through Jesus, the knowledge and glory of the Godhead are made known to humanity, linking the revelation of God's character and love to the person of Jesus Christ.

I appreciate your willingness to engage in this important discussion, and I understand your concerns. I believe in the Oneness of God, affirming that Jesus Christ is the full manifestation of God in the flesh. We acknowledge that Jesus, in His humanity, experienced and expressed a distinct relationship with the Father, yet we see this as part of the mystery of the incarnation.

Jesus, in His humanity, experienced and expressed a distinct relationship with the Father, yet we see this as part of the mystery of the incarnation. The doctrine of the incarnation teaches that Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man. As a man, Jesus prayed to the Father, demonstrated dependence on Him, and fulfilled the Father's will, showcasing a genuine human relationship with God. This relationship underscores His true humanity, allowing Him to serve as the perfect mediator between God and humanity (1 Timothy 2:5).

At the same time, this relational dynamic highlights the complexity and mystery of the divine nature. According to John 1:1,14, the Word, who was God, became flesh and dwelt among us. This means that while Jesus, the Son, interacted with the Father, He remained fully divine, embodying the fullness of God in bodily form (Colossians 2:9). Thus, the distinction in roles and relational expressions between Jesus and the Father is understood as an aspect of God's incarnate mission to reveal Himself to humanity, provide a model of perfect obedience, and accomplish our redemption. This mystery is encapsulated in the term "godliness" as described in 1 Timothy 3:16, where God was manifest in the flesh to fulfill His redemptive purpose.

1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

The fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus (Colossians 2:9), and that He is both the Father and the Holy Spirit manifest. While this understanding differs from traditional Trinitarian views, the intention is to honor the scriptural revelation of God as fully and faithfully as possible. Recognizing that this perspective is not universally accepted and respect the beliefs of others. Our goal is to foster a deeper relationship with God through Jesus Christ, and we hope to continue this dialogue with mutual respect and love.

 

[First and the Last]

This is a direct definition of Trinitarianism.

In Christian doctrine, the Trinity, or Holy Trinity, is the idea that God is one being that exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each person is fully and equally God, but they are distinct from one another. The three persons of the Trinity also have distinct centers of consciousness, intellect, emotion, and will.

Within the ranks of trinitarianism, one can discern two extreme tendencies. On the one hand, some trinitarians emphasize the unity of God without having a carefully developed understanding of what is meant by three distinct persons in the Godhead. On the other hand, other trinitarians emphasize the threeness of the trinity to the point that they believe in three self-conscious beings, and their view is essentially tritheistic.

 

[First and the Last]

The nature of God, whether understood as one or three, is fundamentally important to our salvation and our mission to save the lost because it directly impacts our understanding of who God is, how we relate to Him, and how we communicate His truth to others. According to the Scriptures, knowing God is essential for eternal life. Jesus Himself said in John 17:3, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The understanding of God’s absolute oneness is crucial because it affirms the full deity of Jesus Christ. Colossians 2:9 declares, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This means that Jesus is not just a part of God, but that He fully embodies the one true God. This understanding shapes our worship, our baptismal practice, and our proclamation of the Gospel.

Understanding that God is One enhances our comprehension of His love and redemptive work. 1 Timothy 3:16 explains, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This manifestation in the flesh as Jesus Christ underscores the profound love of God, who came in human form to save us and to reveal or make known God’s nature and character through a human life. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Fullness of the Godhead) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Doesn't make God separate persons just makes him visible and known.

 

[joestue]

humans don't even understand their own consciousness, yet they insist God is 3 self conscious beings, or 2, or 1, doesn't really matter the number for the sake of what i'm trying to say.

its wild though, to me, how strong their belief is, and how earthshattering it is when they find out what they thought was wrong.

 

[First and the Last]

There is a reason why God didn't make clear the relationship between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

We can only guess at that reason, but salvation is not dependent on this knowledge.

The nature of God is fundamentally important to our salvation and our mission to save the lost because it directly impacts our understanding of who God is, how we relate to Him, and how we communicate His truth to others. According to the Scriptures, knowing God is essential for eternal life. Jesus Himself said in John 17:3, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

The understanding of God’s absolute oneness is crucial because it affirms the full deity of Jesus Christ. Colossians 2:9 declares, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This means that Jesus is not just a part of God, but that He fully embodies the one true God. This understanding shapes our worship, our baptismal practice, and our proclamation of the Gospel.

Understanding that God is One enhances our comprehension of His love and redemptive work. 1 Timothy 3:16 explains, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." This manifestation in the flesh as Jesus Christ underscores the profound love of God, who came in human form to save us and to reveal or make known God’s nature and character through a human life. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Fullness of the Godhead) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Doesn't make God separate persons just makes him visible and known.

 

[Alter2Ego]

One egg has three parts, shell, white and yolk, but it's still one egg. One tricycle has three wheels, but it's still one tricycle. The US government has three branches, but it's still one government. One family may have a husband, wife and child, but it's still one family.

One God can be three people.

John 10:30; "I and the Father are one."

B-A-C:

You are ignoring the context to that verse of scripture. Context refers to surrounding words, verses and chapters. Below is part of the context.

"{1} Jesus spoke these things and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: 'Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you. {20} I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; {21} in order that they may ALL be ONE, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order the world may believe that you sent me forth. {22} Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, "in order that they may be one JUST AS WE ARE ONE." (John 17:1, 20-22)


So B-A-C. Are we to understand from reading John 17:21 and 22 that all of Jesus' disciples are one single person? Or are you able to see, based upon the context, that the word "one" is with reference to unity of purpose?

I will address the rest of your comments in separate posts.

 

[Alter2Ego]

John 1:1; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2; He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3; All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14; And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

B-A-C:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses. The first clause says: "In the beginning was the Word."


Scripture says the Almighty does not have a beginning.
"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even FROM EVERLASTING to EVERLASTING, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2 – King James Version)

The second clause says: "and the Word was with God," which would amount to God being with himself if taken literally. That makes no sense. So that brings into question why the translators chose to capitalize the word "god" at the end of that verse of scripture. Below is how several translations rendered the last clause "the Word was God."

(1) Reijnier Rooleeuw, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

(2) Harwood, 1768, "and was himself a divine person"

(3) Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

(4) Belsham N.T. 1809 "the Word was a god"

(5) Leicester Ambrose, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

(6) Thompson, 1829, "the Logos was a god"


I respond to the rest of your scriptures in another post.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Col 1:16; For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17; He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18; He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

God created everything, Jesus created everything, Jesus is God.
Jesus sometimes calls the Father "my God". I sometimes say something like "I need to get home to my Family", even though "I" am part of my family.

Col 2:9; For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

B-A-C:

You are ignoring the context to Colossians chapters 1 and 2. Notice part of the context below:

Colossians 1:15​

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;"

Colossians 1:15 makes it clear that Jesus was himself created, which indicates the Father, Jehovah, was the power behind the creating.

Colossians 1:18​

"and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things;"

Colossians 1:18 says point blank that Jesus died. Scripture says God cannot die.

1 Timothy 6:16​

"the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen."

 

[Alter2Ego]

Even the Father calls Jesus "God".

Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Heb 1:9; "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.
....
We are to only worship God.

B-A-C:

That's not what that verse at Hebrews 1:9 is saying. It's saying that Jesus has a God by saying "your God, has anointed you...."

And you're right. We are only to worship Almighty God.

 

[First and the Last]

B-A-C:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses. The first clause says: "In the beginning was the Word."


Scripture says the Almighty does not have a beginning.
"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even FROM EVERLASTING to EVERLASTING, thou art God." (Psalms 90:2 – King James Version)

The second clause says: "and the Word was with God," which would amount to God being with himself if taken literally. That makes no sense. So that brings into question why the translators chose to capitalize the word "god" at the end of that verse of scripture. Below is how several translations rendered the last clause "the Word was God."

(1) Reijnier Rooleeuw, 1694, "and the Word was a god"

(2) Harwood, 1768, "and was himself a divine person"

(3) Newcome, 1808, "and the word was a god"

(4) Belsham N.T. 1809 "the Word was a god"

(5) Leicester Ambrose, 1879, "And the logos was a god"

(6) Thompson, 1829, "the Logos was a god"


I respond to the rest of your scriptures in another post.

John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh. In the beginning was the Word (Greek, Logos). The Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).

In Greek usage, logos can mean the expression or plan as it exists in the mind of the proclaimer—as a play in the mind of a playwright—or it can mean the thought as uttered or otherwise physically expressed— as a play that is enacted on stage. John 1 says the Logos existed as the mind of God from the beginning of time. When the fullness of time was come, God put His plan in action. He put flesh on that plan in the form of the man Jesus Christ. The Logos is God expressed. As John Miller says, the Logos is “God uttering Himself.”1 In fact, TAB translates the last phrase of John 1:1 as, “The Word was God Himself.” Flanders and Cresson say, “The Word was God’s means of self disclosure.” This thought is further brought out by verse 14, which says the incarnate Word had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, and by verse 18, which says that the Son has declared the Father.

In Greek philosophy, the Logos came to mean reason or wisdom as the controlling principle of the universe. In John’s day, some Greek philosophers and theologians influenced by Greek thought (especially by the Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria) regarded the Logos as an inferior, secondary deity or as an emanation from God in time. Some Christian heresies, including an emerging form of Gnosticism, were already incorporating these theories into their doctrines and therefore relegating Jesus to an inferior role. John deliberately used their own terminology to refute these doctrines and to declare the truth. The Word was not inferior to God; it was God (John 1:1). The Word did not emanate from God over a period of time; it was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was none other than the Word, or God, revealed in flesh. Note also that the Greek word pros, translated “with” in verse 1, is the same word translated “pertaining to” in Hebrews 2:17 and 5:1. John 1:1 could include in its meanings, therefore, the following: “The Word pertained to God and the Word was God,” or “The Word belonged to God and was God.”

look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have pre existence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14). It is also interesting to note that this verse does not use the word Son, but Word. “Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ.

 

[Twistie]

I'm not in a full disagreement with you on this whole "not being able to understand God problem" -but with sufficient time with God, we should be able to understand it.

Personally i think the reason we can't understand this trinity stuff is because we, ourself, are not a trinity, as so many try to project onto themselves.

We are 2.. we have a flesh body that is subject to the elements, the diseases of the mind, etc.
and we have our spirit. that's it. together, they make up the mystical jewish concept of the soul.

Prior to being born again, your spirit has no power or authority to leave your body, to fight off the demons harassing it, putting thoughts into it. after Jesus.. you do, but its a long learning curve to do it. -my point is, non Christians absolutely do have experiences being ripped out of their physical body, and tormented by demons. when they are outside their body, they don't feel any different than they do in the body. nothing is missing. they still feel like a person. One such NDE testimony, was that they looked back on their body.. as just a bag of flesh filled with memories (and the way they spoke of it, it had no value to them.)

there is no third "person" in ourselves. (and if there is.. maybe you should kick it out)

now, compounding the difficulties of accepting this.. is all the jewish passages that talk about a person's heart and spirit and soul, in the bible.
I will attempt to shed some light on this:

all of those passages are talking about the different elements that make up a person. a person who is given to anger, in those days would be said to have been possessed or given to a spirit of anger. when Ezekiel and Jeremiah talk about "God putting a new spirit in a person, one who calls out abba father"
it does not mean God takes away some spiritual component of a person's spirit, destroys it.. and replaces it with a new one. it means God changes your mind/sprit to where you want to have a relationship with God.

What it means is God changes the person's heart.. mind.. whatever, cleans up their spiritual person, puts new garments on it (as described elsewhere) removes corruption.. and yes... you could say the person is made new and the old was thrown away. but it was the corruption that God did not create, that was removed. no part of the person was taken away, destroyed, and replaced with another.

The heart.. the emotional seat of a person.. we all know we have one. it gets hurt. God doesn't delete it and start over when you're born again. -you still get to process all the hurt, its just easier when you can look to Christ instead of your pain/fear.

Way i see it, all the heart mind soul spirit distinctions.. are somewhat useless. the words mean different things to different people.

Our neurological system in the body is made up of at least 4 different parts. a normal healthy person isn't even aware of this, because they are all in good communication with each other. What one person calls their heart, may be their second neurological mass which gives them gut feelings about people/situations, and processes long term emotional responses that affect your stress levels which influence your appetite. If a person can't eat for a week after hearing some very bad news.. their mind doesn't care! its their heart that is sick.. or is it really?

do you ever feel yourself starting to maybe get sick, so you take the day or year off to rest so you don't get sick? that's your immune system it's not your soul getting tired of life and it needs a break... but some will say things like this.

In my opinion the spirit of a person can handle anything and cannot be hurt spiritually except by other spirits. --but i'm not so sure.

I know that my spirit can recognise problems wrong with other people's spirits.. I don't understand yet how its possible (and its a supernatural knowledge), and when I do figure out what their problem is.. it is usually deep seated emotional wounds.

So in the case of my ex-gf from 2017, when she walked into the room before we first met, I heard her spirit cry out to me for help. -but i didn't know who it was that i heard, i assumed i had heard my other friend, and i thought to myself "not again he's going to get too drunk and cry about his dead mother" later as i got to know the woman, i recognized it was her voice i heard. -later on i found out my friends had been trying to get the two of us to meet, so she already had knowledge of who i am, but she did not know what i looked like. and from how the next 6 weeks went, she did have desire for me before we first met. so you could say her spirit recognized mine, and spoke to me.

recently i had a second confirmation of this kind of thing, and possibly a third.

but i have no evidence there is a third "person" inside of people.
there is only their spirit, which is ONE PERSON.. and the body, which can't do anything on its own apart from the spirit.

but the spirit can be apart from the body.. its just that we who are stuck in our body, cannot naturally perceive the spiritual realm around us.

HE IS ALL.. something one may not grasp He is One Yet Three.. He is All In All..

This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork"

You are worthy, O Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power. For you created all things, and they exist because you created what you pleased