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Is God One or is He Three?

John 1 beautifully teaches the concept of God manifest in flesh. In the beginning was the Word (Greek, Logos). The Word was the thought, plan, or mind of God. The Word was with God in the beginning and actually was God Himself (John 1:1). The Incarnation existed in the mind of God before the world began. Indeed, in the mind of God the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (I Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8).

In Greek usage, logos can mean the expression or plan as it exists in the mind of the proclaimer—as a play in the mind of a playwright—or it can mean the thought as uttered or otherwise physically expressed— as a play that is enacted on stage. John 1 says the Logos existed as the mind of God from the beginning of time. When the fullness of time was come, God put His plan in action. He put flesh on that plan in the form of the man Jesus Christ. The Logos is God expressed. As John Miller says, the Logos is “God uttering Himself.”1 In fact, TAB translates the last phrase of John 1:1 as, “The Word was God Himself.” Flanders and Cresson say, “The Word was God’s means of self disclosure.” This thought is further brought out by verse 14, which says the incarnate Word had the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, and by verse 18, which says that the Son has declared the Father.

In Greek philosophy, the Logos came to mean reason or wisdom as the controlling principle of the universe. In John’s day, some Greek philosophers and theologians influenced by Greek thought (especially by the Jewish thinker Philo of Alexandria) regarded the Logos as an inferior, secondary deity or as an emanation from God in time. Some Christian heresies, including an emerging form of Gnosticism, were already incorporating these theories into their doctrines and therefore relegating Jesus to an inferior role. John deliberately used their own terminology to refute these doctrines and to declare the truth. The Word was not inferior to God; it was God (John 1:1). The Word did not emanate from God over a period of time; it was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was none other than the Word, or God, revealed in flesh. Note also that the Greek word pros, translated “with” in verse 1, is the same word translated “pertaining to” in Hebrews 2:17 and 5:1. John 1:1 could include in its meanings, therefore, the following: “The Word pertained to God and the Word was God,” or “The Word belonged to God and was God.”

look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have pre existence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14). It is also interesting to note that this verse does not use the word Son, but Word. “Son of God” never means the incorporeal Spirit alone. We can never use “Son” correctly apart from the humanity of Jesus Christ.
See post 76 where I responded to B-A-C's attempt at using John 1:1 to prove the Trinity.

Also, how do you explain John 1:14, quoted below:

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 -- King James Version)

DEFINITION OF "BEGOTTEN":
" brought into existence by or as if by a parent)"
 
A silly debate. In John the Baptist's baptism of Yashua Yahovah, Yashua and Ruah are all present. Do I use metaphors to explain the Triune Godhead? Do I pretend to understand the Godhead? No, but I worship Yashuah in the cause of Yashua. I might live throughout eternity never understanding Yashuah but I believe and it is enough.
 
A silly debate. In John the Baptist's baptism of Yashua Yahovah, Yashua and Ruah are all present. Do I use metaphors to explain the Triune Godhead? Do I pretend to understand the Godhead? No, but I worship Yashuah in the cause of Yashua. I might live throughout eternity never understanding Yashuah but I believe and it is enough.
Bill Taylor:

All three (Father, Son, and god's holy spirit) being present at the same time does not equate to they are the same god. That's like telling me that you, your father, and something owned by your father are combined into a single person simply because all three of you happen to be present at the same time.

When Jesus was being baptized, the scripture states:

Matthew 3:16

After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.

Matthew 3:17

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”


QUESTION: Are we to understand that God approved himself?
 
A silly debate. In John the Baptist's baptism of Yashua Yahovah, Yashua and Ruah are all present. Do I use metaphors to explain the Triune Godhead? Do I pretend to understand the Godhead? No, but I worship Yashuah in the cause of Yashua. I might live throughout eternity never understanding Yashuah but I believe and it is enough.
He glorified Himself from inside out He is All Holy

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, ...:love:

:broken_heart:
 
Also, how do you explain John 1:14, quoted below:

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 -- King James Version)

DEFINITION OF "BEGOTTEN":
" brought into existence by or as if by a parent)"
Isaiah prophesied that the glory of the LORD would be revealed to all flesh (Isaiah 40:5). Since Jehovah said He would not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8; 48:11), we know He could only fulfill this prophecy by revealing Himself. Indeed, we find in the New Testament that Jesus had glory from the Father (John 1:14; 17:5). He is the Lord of glory (I Corinthians 2:8). When Jesus comes again, He will come in the glory of the Father (Matthew 16:27; Mark 8:38). Since Jesus has Jehovah’s glory, He must be Jehovah. 6. Jehovah said, “Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak; behold, it is I” (Isaiah 52:6). Yet we know that Jesus is the One who declared the Father, manifested the Father’s name, and declared the Father’s name (John 1:18; 17:6; 17:26). Jesus declared the LORD’s name (Psalm 22:22; Hebrews 2:12). Thus, He must be Jehovah.

"only begotten" in John 1:14 is highlighting the unique and unparalleled nature of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. He would emphasize that "only begotten" (Greek: monogenes) underscores the unique manifestation of God in the flesh, implies the singular incarnation of the one true God. Jesus is the one and only manifestation of the divine nature in human form, conceived (The Eternal Word begotten) by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. This term underscores Jesus' full deity and humanity, affirming that He is the visible image of the invisible God, in whom dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. "Only begotten" conveys that Jesus is the exclusive and perfect revelation of God’s glory, grace, and truth, uniquely embodying both divine and human natures. Thus, Jesus, as the "only begotten of the Father," perfectly reveals God’s nature, character, and glory, aligning with the Scripture that He is the one true God manifest in flesh.
 
Bill Taylor:

All three (Father, Son, and god's holy spirit) being present at the same time does not equate to they are the same god. That's like telling me that you, your father, and something owned by your father are combined into a single person simply because all three of you happen to be present at the same time.

When Jesus was being baptized, the scripture states:

Matthew 3:16

After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.

Matthew 3:17

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”


QUESTION: Are we to understand that God approved himself?
The assertion that the presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at Jesus' baptism does not necessarily indicate that they are the same God can be better understood through the theological framework. In Scripture, we can affirm that there is one God who has manifested Himself in different ways. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the one true God. When we see Jesus being baptized, the voice from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove, we see God's omnipresence and His ability to manifest in multiple ways simultaneously. It’s similar to understanding how God can be present in all places at all times—He can also reveal Himself in distinct forms to fulfill His divine purposes.

The analogy comparing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to a human father, his son, and an object owned by the father doesn’t quite capture the depth of the theological truth. In human terms, individuals and objects are separate entities, but with God, it is His singular divine nature that manifests in different roles. Jesus, in His role as the Son, is the manifestation of God in the flesh. The voice from heaven is God's way of affirming Jesus' divine mission and identity to those present. The descending Spirit symbolizes God's anointing and approval of Jesus’ ministry. All these manifestations point to the same singular divine essence of God.

When the scripture says, "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved" (Matthew 3:17), it is indeed God affirming the humanity of Jesus and His mission. This does not mean God is approving Himself in a redundant manner but rather that God, in His omnipresence, is confirming Jesus' divine mission and identity to those present at the baptism. It is God's way of revealing His plan and purpose through Jesus Christ. Jesus, being fully God and fully man, needed this public affirmation to begin His ministry with divine authority and to fulfill all righteousness.

The presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at Jesus' baptism demonstrates God's ability to reveal Himself in multiple ways while maintaining His singular divine essence. This profound event shows the unity of God's plan and the manifestation of His presence and approval in the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. As we explore these deep truths, let us do so with a heart open to the mysteries of God's nature and the revelation of His love through Jesus Christ.
 
Jesus is one with God and so its a distinction without a difference.

No split personalities and definitely not 3 persons

I would say there is a difference in the distinctions.

Yes, Hear O Israel God is one. One God, meaning there
isn't one God for war (Aries) and another God for Love (Aphrodite),
and another God for the harvest (Demeter), there is only One God that
that they would need to pray to for all these things.

HOWEVER, this One God has revealed Himself/God's Self to us in 3
distinct ways. Some use the word 3 persons, but our human language fails
to adequately define God's nature because when people hear the word "persons"
they start thinking of multiple personalities.

How many United States governments are there?
There is only 1 USA government. BUT, the President of the USA is not the Supreme
Court, and the Supreme Court is not the Congress, but they all Speak for the USA government.
The 1 USA government. Unfortunately that analogy fails because when people think of government
they think of division, but imagine that those 3 branches were in perfect harmony, perfectly.

Distinctions worth noting: Jesus the Son of God, died on the cross, God the Father did not die on the cross. The Holy Spirit lives inside of us, Jesus does not live in us, the Spirit of Jesus lives in us.

When we get to heaven we will understand more, our human minds can't fully comprehend God and our language fails. God wants us to believe in the WORDs of Jesus His Son, Receive His Spirit the Holy Spirit to live in us, and Live for God the Father.
 
Bill Taylor:

All three (Father, Son, and god's holy spirit) being present at the same time does not equate to they are the same god. That's like telling me that you, your father, and something owned by your father are combined into a single person simply because all three of you happen to be present at the same time.

When Jesus was being baptized, the scripture states:

Matthew 3:16

After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.

Matthew 3:17

Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”


QUESTION: Are we to understand that God approved himself?
I am not qualified and neither are you, do you have a better candidate? I don't.
 
I am not qualified and neither are you, do you have a better candidate? I don't.
Bill Taylor:

Speak for yourself as regard who is qualified to answer a simple question such as "was God approving himself" at Matthew 3:17. Don't put me in the category of someone who dodges simple questions. I believe in reasoning on the scriptures, because that's why Almighty God Jehovah gave them to us.

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
 
The assertion that the presence of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at Jesus' baptism does not necessarily indicate that they are the same God can be better understood through the theological framework. In Scripture, we can affirm that there is one God who has manifested Himself in different ways. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the one true God. When we see Jesus being baptized, the voice from heaven, and the Spirit descending like a dove, we see God's omnipresence and His ability to manifest in multiple ways simultaneously. It’s similar to understanding how God can be present in all places at all times—He can also reveal Himself in distinct forms to fulfill His divine purposes.
First and the Last:

By your own admission Jesus was seen many people. In that case, how do you explain the inconsistency when Jehovah told the following to Moses:

Exodus 33:20

But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
 
The analogy comparing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to a human father, his son, and an object owned by the father doesn’t quite capture the depth of the theological truth. In human terms, individuals and objects are separate entities, but with God, it is His singular divine nature that manifests in different roles. Jesus, in His role as the Son, is the manifestation of God in the flesh. The voice from heaven is God's way of affirming Jesus' divine mission and identity to those present. The descending Spirit symbolizes God's anointing and approval of Jesus’ ministry. All these manifestations point to the same singular divine essence of God.
First and the Last:

Now you are making things up as you go. But here's your problem.: You are claiming that Jesus (the son) is the manifestation of God in the Flesh aka God in human form. In that case, how do you explain this scripture:

Numbers 23:19

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19 -- King James Version)

Jesus was repeatedly referred to as "son of man." How then could Jesus possibly be in a Trinity with Jehovah the Father?
 
"only begotten" in John 1:14 is highlighting the unique and unparalleled nature of Jesus Christ as the Son of God. He would emphasize that "only begotten" (Greek: monogenes) underscores the unique manifestation of God in the flesh, implies the singular incarnation of the one true God. Jesus is the one and only manifestation of the divine nature in human form, conceived (The Eternal Word begotten) by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. This term underscores Jesus' full deity and humanity, affirming that He is the visible image of the invisible God, in whom dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. "Only begotten" conveys that Jesus is the exclusive and perfect revelation of God’s glory, grace, and truth, uniquely embodying both divine and human natures. Thus, Jesus, as the "only begotten of the Father," perfectly reveals God’s nature, character, and glory, aligning with the Scripture that He is the one true God manifest in flesh.

First and the Last:

You stated that Jesus is "God in the flesh," while at the same time you state: "Only begotten" conveys that Jesus is the exclusive and perfect revelation of God’s glory, grace, and truth, uniquely embodying both divine and human natures." but you still can't explain away the common definition from Merriam Webster dictionary which says that "begotten" means a person was "brought into existence" by a parent. Definitions of words don't change to suit us simply because we want to hold onto a religious belief.

DEFINITION OF "BEGOTTEN":
" brought into existence by or as if by a parent)"


The word "begotten" is the past participle of the word "beget." The past tense is "begat." Let's see the meaning of the words "beget" and "begat" from two other dictionaries.

beget​

, be·got or (Archaic) be·gat; be·got·ten or be·got; be·get·ting.
  1. (especially of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
    Synonyms: father, breed, sire, spawn

beget (verb)

present participle begetting | past tense begot or begat | past participle begotten or begot
to be the father of:
In the Bible it says that Adam begat Cain and Abel.
Now, Let's look at the meaning of "procreate."

procreate​

verb

[intransitive, transitive] (formal)
Verb Forms
  1. procreate (something) to produce children or baby animals



First and the Last, according to the dictionaries, the word "begotten" is with reference to someone who was procreated and did not exist until he was procreated or begotten by somebody else. One dictionary gave the example of Cain and Abel who did not exist until Adam begat them.

According to the Trinity, Jesus (the Son) is the same God as Jehovah (the Father) because they have always existed at the same time. How is that possible, First and the Last, since scripture says Jesus was "begotten" aka created?
 
First and the Last:

By your own admission Jesus was seen many people. In that case, how do you explain the inconsistency when Jehovah told the following to Moses:

Exodus 33:20

But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.
 
First and the Last:

Now you are making things up as you go. But here's your problem.: You are claiming that Jesus (the son) is the manifestation of God in the Flesh aka God in human form. In that case,
Are we forgetting this verse so plainly clear.

1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

First and the Last:

Now you are making things up as you go. But here's your problem.: You are claiming that Jesus (the son) is the manifestation of God in the Flesh aka God in human form. In that case, how do you explain this scripture:

Numbers 23:19

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19 -- King James Version)

Jesus was repeatedly referred to as "son of man." How then could Jesus possibly be in a Trinity with Jehovah the Father?
The assertion that Jesus (the Son) is the manifestation of God in the flesh is deeply rooted in biblical doctrine. John 1:14 clearly states, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," indicating that God took on human form in the person of Jesus Christ. This concept is consistent with the belief in the incarnation, where God, in His infinite wisdom and love, chose to reveal Himself to humanity in a tangible and relatable way.

Regarding Numbers 23:19, which states, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent," it is crucial to understand the context. This verse highlights God's unchanging and truthful nature compared to the fallibility of humans. It emphasizes that God's character and promises are steadfast. The incarnation of Jesus does not contradict this truth; instead, it complements it by showing that God, while remaining divine and unchanging in His nature, chose to become human to fulfill His redemptive plan. Jesus, as the "Son of Man," experienced human life, yet without sin, and fully revealed God's truth and faithfulness.

Jesus being referred to as the "Son of Man" signifies His identification with humanity. It does not imply that He is merely human or separate from the divine nature of God. Rather, it emphasizes His role as the mediator who bridges the gap between God and humanity. Jesus, being fully God and fully man, demonstrates God's ability to interact with His creation in a unique and personal way. The Bible affirms that Jesus is the one true God manifest in the flesh, and this understanding aligns with the entirety of Scripture, revealing the depth of God's love and His plan for salvation.
 
First and the Last:

You stated that Jesus is "God in the flesh," while at the same time you state: "Only begotten" conveys that Jesus is the exclusive and perfect revelation of God’s glory, grace, and truth, uniquely embodying both divine and human natures." but you still can't explain away the common definition from Merriam Webster dictionary which says that "begotten" means a person was "brought into existence" by a parent. Definitions of words don't change to suit us simply because we want to hold onto a religious belief.




The word "begotten" is the past participle of the word "beget." The past tense is "begat." Let's see the meaning of the words "beget" and "begat" from two other dictionaries.

beget​

, be·got or (Archaic) be·gat; be·got·ten or be·got; be·get·ting.
  1. (especially of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
    Synonyms: father, breed, sire, spawn

beget (verb)

present participle begetting | past tense begot or begat | past participle begotten or begot
to be the father of:
In the Bible it says that Adam begat Cain and Abel.
Now, Let's look at the meaning of "procreate."

procreate​

verb

[intransitive, transitive] (formal)
Verb Forms
  1. procreate (something) to produce children or baby animals



First and the Last, according to the dictionaries, the word "begotten" is with reference to someone who was procreated and did not exist until he was procreated or begotten by somebody else. One dictionary gave the example of Cain and Abel who did not exist until Adam begat them.

According to the Trinity, Jesus (the Son) is the same God as Jehovah (the Father) because they have always existed at the same time. How is that possible, First and the Last, since scripture says Jesus was "begotten" aka created?
John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of eternal existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.
 
The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.
First and the Last:

Jesus' disciples of the First Century and many other people saw Jesus face to face. Jehovah told Moses: "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." If Jesus were God manifest in the flesh, everyone that saw his face would have died.


The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.
Really? That's not what scripture is saying. That's what you are telling me. But I'll play along for now and wait for you to explain the following verse.

New Living Translation
"God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?" (Numbers 23:19)


Jesus was fully human when he was born to the virgin named Mary because his spirit life from the heavens had been transferred into her womb. Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man. Numbers 23:19 also says God does not change his mind. Are you now telling me that Numbers 23:19 was a mistake and that God did indeed change his mind and became a man? And am I to understand that when the Almighty told Moses at Exodus 33:20 "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live" that God lied about that?


I will respond to the rest of your comments in a separate post.

Alter2Ego
 
The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.
First and the Last:

Are you kidding me? Go back and read Numbers 23:19 where it says God does not change his mind.



The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.

If Jesus Christ were God in the flesh, that would mean that God died. If that were the case, how do you explain the following verse of scripture?

New Living Translation
"{13} And I charge you before God, who gives life to all, and before Christ Jesus, who gave a good testimony before Pontius Pilate, {14} that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. {15} For, At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. {16} He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen." (1 Timothy 6:13-16)


First and the Last:

Keep in mind that Jesus Christ literally died. And remember, people saw him face to face. I point that out to you so that you can see that the words that I enlarged and bolded in blue within 1 Timothy 6:16 cannot possibly be referring to Jesus Christ.

How do you explain 1 Timothy 6:16?


Alter2Ego
 
First and the Last:

The King James Version and a few other Bibles deliberately mistranslated that verse of scripture at 1 Timothy 3:16. Notice how that same verse is translated by other Bibles.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and announced to the nations. He was believed in throughout the world and taken to heaven in glory.



Contemporary English Version
Here is the great mystery of our religion: Christ came as a human. The Spirit proved that he pleased God, and he was seen by angels. Christ was preached to the nations. People in this world put their faith in him, and he was taken up to glory.


Weymouth New Testament
And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion-- that Christ appeared in human form, and His claims justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels and proclaimed among Gentile nations, was believed on in the world, and received up again into glory.



Amplified Bible
And great, we confess, is the mystery [the hidden truth] of godliness: He (Jesus Christ) who was revealed in human flesh, Was justified and vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.



Most of the other Bibles, such as the one quoted below, simply refer to Jesus as "He" rather than clarify by adding "(Jesus Christ)" in parenthesis as happened with the Amplified Bible.

New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.


Below is the weblink to other Bible translations of the same verse.
 
Jesus' disciples of the First Century and many other people saw Jesus face to face. Jehovah told Moses: "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." If Jesus were God manifest in the flesh, everyone that saw his face would have died.
The understanding that Jesus, who is God manifested in the flesh, was seen by many people does not contradict Jehovah’s statement to Moses in Exodus 33:20, where He says, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." This statement underscores the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, God, in His infinite wisdom and grace, made Himself accessible to humanity through the incarnation of Jesus Christ. In Jesus, God veiled His divine glory in human flesh, allowing people to see and interact with Him without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. Thus, when people saw Jesus, they saw the fullness of God dwelling bodily in a form that they could comprehend and relate to. This manifestation does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His love and desire to redeem humanity by making Himself known in a way that fulfills His divine purposes.
 
Really? That's not what scripture is saying. That's what you are telling me. But I'll play along for now and wait for you to explain the following verse.

New Living Translation
"God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?" (Numbers 23:19)


Jesus was fully human when he was born to the virgin named Mary because his spirit life from the heavens had been transferred into her womb. Numbers 23:19 says God is not a man. Numbers 23:19 also says God does not change his mind. Are you now telling me that Numbers 23:19 was a mistake and that God did indeed change his mind and became a man? And am I to understand that when the Almighty told Moses at Exodus 33:20 "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live" that God lied about that?
I appreciate your willingness to engage in this discussion. The understanding that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh aligns with the totality of Scripture when viewed through the lens of God's redemptive plan. In Exodus 33:20, God indeed declares to Moses, "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live." This statement emphasizes the holiness and glory of God in His full divine essence, which is beyond human capacity to behold and survive. However, in the incarnation, God, in His infinite wisdom and love, veiled His divine glory in human flesh. In Jesus, we see God in a form we can comprehend and relate to, without experiencing the full overwhelming presence of His deity. This does not negate the truth of God’s words to Moses but rather demonstrates His desire to make Himself accessible to humanity and redeem us through a personal relationship.

Your reference to Numbers 23:19 is important: "God is not a man, so He does not lie. He is not human, so He does not change His mind." This verse underscores God's immutable nature and His truthfulness. It is crucial to understand that the incarnation does not imply a change in God's nature or mind. Rather, it reflects the eternal plan of God to redeem humanity. The phrase "God is not a man" in Numbers speaks to God's inherent divinity and trustworthiness compared to fallible humanity. When Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, it was not that God changed His mind or nature, but that He manifested His preordained plan of salvation. The divine nature of Jesus was united with human nature, allowing Him to fully experience and redeem humanity while remaining fully God. Thus, God did not become a man in the sense of altering His divine essence, but He took on human nature to fulfill His eternal purpose.

Regarding Exodus 33:20, where God tells Moses, "You cannot see My face, for no one can see Me and live," it is essential to recognize that this statement reveals the overwhelming holiness of God's full presence. God did not lie; rather, He made a profound truth known about the nature of His glory. In Jesus Christ, God made a way for humanity to see and know Him without being consumed by His glory. Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), and in Him, the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form (Colossians 2:9). This incarnation was not a contradiction but a divine mystery (1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."), where God’s infinite glory was veiled in human flesh, allowing humanity to experience His presence and truth in a manner that brings life rather than death. Therefore, the incarnation of Jesus Christ does not imply any falsehood or change in God's nature; instead, it reveals the depth of His love and the fulfillment of His redemptive plan.

We cannot escape Scripture.
 
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