Dear Brother,
I wasn't offended by you at all. I have no problem with your posts. It is alright. It is your choice if you want to continue or to drop the discussion.
God bless you.
Is it right to criticize a man of God?
- Thread starter Richie
- Start date
Dear Brother,
I wasn't offended by you at all. I have no problem with your posts. It is alright. It is your choice if you want to continue or to drop the discussion.
God bless you.
Dear Sister Abigya,
Thank you so much for your wonderful and short reply.
God bless you.
Deeper
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I am not advocating the slander of anyone, be noted. Hebrews says "But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." we are to discern what is of God and what is not. I like what Got questions has to say on this:
To answer your question plainly, I think it depends on the Criticism involved. What type of criticism is it? if it's the type listed above where someone is exposing a false teacher then I think it's ok, to an extent. But if they are just making fun of the other person, then I think it becomes sin.
To answer your question plainly, I think it depends on the Criticism involved. What type of criticism is it? if it's the type listed above where someone is exposing a false teacher then I think it's ok, to an extent. But if they are just making fun of the other person, then I think it becomes sin.
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abigya
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Just felt to add this verse to what it has been discussed here,
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
blessings
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
blessings
Hii Abigya,
Yes, indeed it is a very appropriate verse. Very much true indeed.
God bless you. Please don't mind if I'm too informal.
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What about this then?
My son wanted his daughter 16mths old Dedicated, which the Missionary were I attend was going to do at our home, simple affair giving thanks to God for her life, but this didn't please his girlfriend so I was told to cancel it, a big affair was her desire, so I cancelled and apologized to my friend Missionary.
His girl started to attend a church were she lives, the Minister told her they would have to attend for 3 months.
So this Minister visited with them and discovered they're not wed, I did tell my son that God did ordain marraige BEFORE children would come.
Well, he said he could get them married them for £30, but they would then HAVE TO BECOME CHRISTIANS, to have the baby BAPTIZED.
So they could bring her up in a Christian home, to attend church etc, he said 'you know it's not a bad life'.
I will leave this open to see what you all think about this Minister's approach to Christianity.
Also his agreement to Baptize a baby.
Is is right to critise this man of God?
My son wanted his daughter 16mths old Dedicated, which the Missionary were I attend was going to do at our home, simple affair giving thanks to God for her life, but this didn't please his girlfriend so I was told to cancel it, a big affair was her desire, so I cancelled and apologized to my friend Missionary.
His girl started to attend a church were she lives, the Minister told her they would have to attend for 3 months.
So this Minister visited with them and discovered they're not wed, I did tell my son that God did ordain marraige BEFORE children would come.
Well, he said he could get them married them for £30, but they would then HAVE TO BECOME CHRISTIANS, to have the baby BAPTIZED.
So they could bring her up in a Christian home, to attend church etc, he said 'you know it's not a bad life'.
I will leave this open to see what you all think about this Minister's approach to Christianity.
Also his agreement to Baptize a baby.
Is is right to critise this man of God?
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Dear Maureen,
If he agreed to get them married, then it is alright up to this point. But I have noticed something from the ministers words:
This shows that he is not serious at all about matters like sin (In other words, he is not serious about spiritual life). Living together before marriage is extremely illegal and the minister is not serious about this point.
If you want we shall have a short bible study on 1 Corinthians 5. It is a little bit related to matters like marriage. (I had a study on this chapter prior to this, I learnt many things).
But, I think it is better not to criticize him, because if we criticize him, it will be only a waste of time. Even though the minister's approach is seriously wrong, let us not condemn him.
The right thing I believe what we have to do is to avoid going to his church. God will deal with him, God will judge him. By avoiding ministers like this, we are doing it for our good, for our spiritual safety, because if we go to his church, we will definitely not be able to gain anything spiritually. It will seriously effect our spiritual life.
We can do one more thing as well, rather than criticizing him, if we go and tell him about all the wrong things he did in this matter, if he listens to us, it is good, but he doesn't listen to us, let him be like a heathen or an unbeliever to us.
God bless you. I hope I made it clear. If haven't, please tell me.
I want to hear from you.
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Ritchie
yes I agree the Minister was right to talk of marraige, as I said God ordained it BEFORE the arrival of children not the other way around.
I'm not going to follow up anything, they are not going back to his church as they don't want married, but to be told they MUST become Christians on order to have the child Baptized, is somewhat a request of his own I believe.
My goodness Ritchie, our own dear Lord Jesus doesn't force Himself upon us.
My son also mistakenly participated in the Lord's Table, he didn't understand it, neither was it made clear to him in the service.
I have since explained both Baptism and the Lord's Table to him with the help of God.
yes I agree the Minister was right to talk of marraige, as I said God ordained it BEFORE the arrival of children not the other way around.
I'm not going to follow up anything, they are not going back to his church as they don't want married, but to be told they MUST become Christians on order to have the child Baptized, is somewhat a request of his own I believe.
My goodness Ritchie, our own dear Lord Jesus doesn't force Himself upon us.
My son also mistakenly participated in the Lord's Table, he didn't understand it, neither was it made clear to him in the service.
I have since explained both Baptism and the Lord's Table to him with the help of God.
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shipwrecksoul
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Criticize a Man of God mmmmm?
Is it right to (positive criticism for correction) criticize a man of God?
Well if you mean rebuke.....
Like David and Nathan I suppose? Like Paul and Peter I suppose. Like Balaam and the Donkey I suppose. Like Paul sending a letter to the church, many men of God, in Sardis I suppose. Who is not under Gods hand of correction? Only the pagans think this which love not God but in affect they will meet with their demise! Because everyone of us will bow before Jesus. The academic man, The poor man, the foolish man and the man of God! If God is giving you disernment and discretion and wisdom and the leading yes by all means let God speak to you to him! Hey did not the prophets do this?
2Pe 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
If a man of God is above Gods correction than that man is not humble for God to work in him and through him.
Is it right to (positive criticism for correction) criticize a man of God?
Well if you mean rebuke.....
Like David and Nathan I suppose? Like Paul and Peter I suppose. Like Balaam and the Donkey I suppose. Like Paul sending a letter to the church, many men of God, in Sardis I suppose. Who is not under Gods hand of correction? Only the pagans think this which love not God but in affect they will meet with their demise! Because everyone of us will bow before Jesus. The academic man, The poor man, the foolish man and the man of God! If God is giving you disernment and discretion and wisdom and the leading yes by all means let God speak to you to him! Hey did not the prophets do this?
2Pe 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
If a man of God is above Gods correction than that man is not humble for God to work in him and through him.
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Daniel Marsh
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Matthew CHAPTER 7
The common sense behind right behaviour
7:1-2 - "Don't criticise people, and you will not be criticised. For you will be judged by the way you criticise others, and the measure you give will be the measure you receive."
7:3-5 - "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and fail to notice the plank in your own? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me get the speck out of your eye', when there is a plank in your own? You fraud! Take the plank out of your own eye first, and then you can see clearly enough to remove your brother's speck of dust."
...
7:12 - "Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them - this is the essence of all true religion."
...
Living, not professing, is what matters
7:15-20 - "Be on your guard against false religious teachers, who come to you dressed up as sheep but are really greedy wolves. You can tell them by their fruit. Do you pick a bunch of grapes from a thorn-bush or figs from a clump of thistles? Every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is incapable of producing bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The tree that fails to produce good fruit is cut down and burnt. So you may know men by their fruit."
7:21 - "It is not everyone who keeps saying to me 'Lord, Lord' who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the man who actually does my Heavenly Father's will.
7:22-23 - "In 'that day' many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we preach in your name, didn't we cast out devils in your name, and do many great things in your name?' Then I shall tell them plainly, 'I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!'"
J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT
I Tim
5:17-20 - Elders with a gift of leadership should be considered worthy of respect, and of adequate salary, particularly if they work hard at their preaching and teaching. Remember the scriptural principle: 'You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads the grain', and 'The labourer is worthy of his wages'. Take no notice of charges brought against an elder unless they can be substantiated by proper witnesses. If sin is actually proved, then the offenders should be publicly rebuked as a salutary warning to others.
1:18-20 - Timothy my son, I give you the following charge. (And may I say, before I give it to you, that it is in full accord with those prophecies made at your ordination which sent you out to battle for the right armed only with your faith and a clear conscience. Some, alas, have laid these simple weapons contemptuously aside and, as far as their faith is concerned have run their ships on the rocks. Hymenaeus and Alexander are men of this sort, and as a matter of fact I had to expel them from the Church to teach them not to blaspheme.)
I Cor
CHAPTER 5
A horrible sin and a stern remedy
The common sense behind right behaviour
7:1-2 - "Don't criticise people, and you will not be criticised. For you will be judged by the way you criticise others, and the measure you give will be the measure you receive."
7:3-5 - "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and fail to notice the plank in your own? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me get the speck out of your eye', when there is a plank in your own? You fraud! Take the plank out of your own eye first, and then you can see clearly enough to remove your brother's speck of dust."
...
7:12 - "Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them - this is the essence of all true religion."
...
Living, not professing, is what matters
7:15-20 - "Be on your guard against false religious teachers, who come to you dressed up as sheep but are really greedy wolves. You can tell them by their fruit. Do you pick a bunch of grapes from a thorn-bush or figs from a clump of thistles? Every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is incapable of producing bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The tree that fails to produce good fruit is cut down and burnt. So you may know men by their fruit."
7:21 - "It is not everyone who keeps saying to me 'Lord, Lord' who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the man who actually does my Heavenly Father's will.
7:22-23 - "In 'that day' many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we preach in your name, didn't we cast out devils in your name, and do many great things in your name?' Then I shall tell them plainly, 'I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!'"
J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT
I Tim
5:17-20 - Elders with a gift of leadership should be considered worthy of respect, and of adequate salary, particularly if they work hard at their preaching and teaching. Remember the scriptural principle: 'You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads the grain', and 'The labourer is worthy of his wages'. Take no notice of charges brought against an elder unless they can be substantiated by proper witnesses. If sin is actually proved, then the offenders should be publicly rebuked as a salutary warning to others.
1:18-20 - Timothy my son, I give you the following charge. (And may I say, before I give it to you, that it is in full accord with those prophecies made at your ordination which sent you out to battle for the right armed only with your faith and a clear conscience. Some, alas, have laid these simple weapons contemptuously aside and, as far as their faith is concerned have run their ships on the rocks. Hymenaeus and Alexander are men of this sort, and as a matter of fact I had to expel them from the Church to teach them not to blaspheme.)
I Cor
CHAPTER 5
A horrible sin and a stern remedy
5:1-2 - It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and immorality of a kind that even pagans condemn - a man has apparently taken his father's wife! Are you still proud of your church? Shouldn't you be overwhelmed with sorrow and shame? The man who has done such a thing should certainly be expelled from your fellowship!
5:3-5 - I know I am not with you physically but I am with you in spirit, and I assure you as solemnly as if I were actually present before your assembly that I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done this thing, and I do this with full divine authority. My judgment is this: that the man should be left to the mercy of Satan so that while his body will experience the destructive powers of sin his spirit may yet be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
5:6-8 - Your pride in your church is lamentably out of place. Don't you know how a little yeast can permeate the whole lump? Clear out every bit of the old yeast that you may be new unleavened bread! We Christians have had a Passover lamb sacrificed for us - none other than Christ himself! So let us "keep the feast" with no trace of the yeast of the old life, nor the yeast of vice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of unadulterated truth!
5:9-13 - In my previous letter I said, "Don't mix with the immoral." I didn't mean, of course, that you were to have no contact at all with the immoral of this world, nor with any cheats or thieves or idolaters - for that would mean going out of the world altogether! But in this letter I tell you not to associate with any professing Christian who is known to be an impure man or a swindler, an idolater, a man with a foul tongue, a drunkard or a thief. My instruction is: "Don't even eat with such a man." Those outside the church it is not my business to judge. but surely it is your business to judge those who are inside the church - God alone can judge those who are outside. It is your plain duty to 'put away from yourselves that wicked person'.
In short, one should approach others in charity or God's love (I Cor 13), if there is an offensive, discuss it with them. If need be, bring a witness to establish every word by two witnesses -- this was the standard in court in their day. Only when the offensive can be proven beyound doubt by two or more witnesses bring it up publically to the church. As you see Paul an Apostle, who has authority in the church, names Hymenaeus and Alexander publically in his letter to Tim.5:3-5 - I know I am not with you physically but I am with you in spirit, and I assure you as solemnly as if I were actually present before your assembly that I have already pronounced judgment in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done this thing, and I do this with full divine authority. My judgment is this: that the man should be left to the mercy of Satan so that while his body will experience the destructive powers of sin his spirit may yet be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
5:6-8 - Your pride in your church is lamentably out of place. Don't you know how a little yeast can permeate the whole lump? Clear out every bit of the old yeast that you may be new unleavened bread! We Christians have had a Passover lamb sacrificed for us - none other than Christ himself! So let us "keep the feast" with no trace of the yeast of the old life, nor the yeast of vice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of unadulterated truth!
5:9-13 - In my previous letter I said, "Don't mix with the immoral." I didn't mean, of course, that you were to have no contact at all with the immoral of this world, nor with any cheats or thieves or idolaters - for that would mean going out of the world altogether! But in this letter I tell you not to associate with any professing Christian who is known to be an impure man or a swindler, an idolater, a man with a foul tongue, a drunkard or a thief. My instruction is: "Don't even eat with such a man." Those outside the church it is not my business to judge. but surely it is your business to judge those who are inside the church - God alone can judge those who are outside. It is your plain duty to 'put away from yourselves that wicked person'.
Boanerges
Member
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Open criticism gets you no where:
Pro 18:19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
It can also lead to confusion in the body.
There is a proper way to do anything. None of us is above needing a word of correction. The scriptures tell us that if we see someone stumbling we are required to help. This is to be done privately, in the spirit of love and speaking the truth in love. While there as steps given, each is given to one final goal and that is to:
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Pro 18:19 A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
It can also lead to confusion in the body.
There is a proper way to do anything. None of us is above needing a word of correction. The scriptures tell us that if we see someone stumbling we are required to help. This is to be done privately, in the spirit of love and speaking the truth in love. While there as steps given, each is given to one final goal and that is to:
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
you can kick the can around all day long about is it wrong to critizize a man of God aka brother in Christ. but only one simple question needs to be asked.
what is the heart of the critisizim? (first judge yourself. slow to speak quick to hear)
know that if you judge a brother/sister that The Lord Jesus Christ is in him/her. think about what God says to those on his right side. when i was an hungered you fed me... and they all said Lord we fed you? now thats the eddieb shortened version.
also if you think its wrong The Holy Spirit has already convicted you. convicion isnt guilt. guilt and shame is from OUR sin. conviction is from The Holy Spirit.
what is the heart of the critisizim? (first judge yourself. slow to speak quick to hear)
know that if you judge a brother/sister that The Lord Jesus Christ is in him/her. think about what God says to those on his right side. when i was an hungered you fed me... and they all said Lord we fed you? now thats the eddieb shortened version.
also if you think its wrong The Holy Spirit has already convicted you. convicion isnt guilt. guilt and shame is from OUR sin. conviction is from The Holy Spirit.
I think there needs to a little discernment of who we called a "Man of God". How many here would hesitate to decry against Fred Phelps and his brand of so called Christianity? I personally am offended/grieved by a significant number of Television Ministries (unnamed). I would caution and advise any follower of Christ to avoid the pitfalls and traps that these so called "Men of God's" teachings lead to.
Yes, if you are talking about your local church, members, leadership I agree there is an appropriate scriptural format for confronting/discussing error or sin.
But if we are talking about major celebrity personalities which represent Christianity in a larger venue then I feel we have not just the right, but obligation to speak out against such if they are just scratching itching ears. The only name I have seen here is Mr. Olsteen, and while I consider him a great motivational speaker, I do not consider him a minister of the gospel. I have an aunt by marriage who is Mormon and considers him great and wouldn't miss him on TV. I think that makes a larger statement of his message than any I could offer. He will say nothing that will offend anyone. And his message is more about what we can get from Jesus than what Jesus has done for us. While I believe that the message of the gospel should be edifying to the congregation, there is more to it than that. The Gospel message should bring conviction, repentance, and new life. Not just a bigger house, better job, and avoidance of any disharmony in our lives. Many others have as shallow a gospel that do more to line their pockets than bring the message of salvation to the needy. My take!
Yes, if you are talking about your local church, members, leadership I agree there is an appropriate scriptural format for confronting/discussing error or sin.
But if we are talking about major celebrity personalities which represent Christianity in a larger venue then I feel we have not just the right, but obligation to speak out against such if they are just scratching itching ears. The only name I have seen here is Mr. Olsteen, and while I consider him a great motivational speaker, I do not consider him a minister of the gospel. I have an aunt by marriage who is Mormon and considers him great and wouldn't miss him on TV. I think that makes a larger statement of his message than any I could offer. He will say nothing that will offend anyone. And his message is more about what we can get from Jesus than what Jesus has done for us. While I believe that the message of the gospel should be edifying to the congregation, there is more to it than that. The Gospel message should bring conviction, repentance, and new life. Not just a bigger house, better job, and avoidance of any disharmony in our lives. Many others have as shallow a gospel that do more to line their pockets than bring the message of salvation to the needy. My take!
Daniel Marsh
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Hi Tom, based on Second John verse ten, we are to test the public teaching ministries, doctrines of others to see if it is in line with God's Word. In Fact, the Bereans in Acts 17:11 were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Paul went on to warn that we be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears. (Acts 20:31). So, in the sense, that one has a public ministry, if their doctrine is in error than I agree that error needs to be exposed. If an Apostle, is subject to public testing by the scriptures than so is anyone who teaches.
Emily Ruth
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As long as it is done in love and Matthew 18 is followed - if the person is truly a man (or woman) of God then they should be open to the correction.
I attended a church service one morning while in a different country, the woman speaking said a great un-truth about Jesus, she said that Jesus DIDNT always get things right, He made mistakes. Well it struck my heart deeply, but I went home and it just wouldn't leave my mind.
When I returned to my own country I wrote the lady speaker a letter to let her know my concern over her words, and that Jesus was without spot or blemish, perfect and sinless, He could NOT do or say anything wrong, which she was implying with her words.
Im not sure if this is the same thing that we are discussing here, but I did criticise a 'woman' supposedly of God, I guess, by writing her that letter.
She replied, but would not change her thought pattern, still insisting that Jesus made mistakes.
I had hoped she would understand her error, but I had to leave it with God.
When I returned to my own country I wrote the lady speaker a letter to let her know my concern over her words, and that Jesus was without spot or blemish, perfect and sinless, He could NOT do or say anything wrong, which she was implying with her words.
Im not sure if this is the same thing that we are discussing here, but I did criticise a 'woman' supposedly of God, I guess, by writing her that letter.
She replied, but would not change her thought pattern, still insisting that Jesus made mistakes.
I had hoped she would understand her error, but I had to leave it with God.
