Living by Faith Isn't a Sure Bet

[The Unprofitable Servant]

@Christ4Ever ,

Truly I do appreciate your consciousness of others (your ref. to Romans 14) to ensure that they do not stumble (that is a very good spirit to have!) but it is ultimately my hope to bring to light that it is not merely food for the body in which we are discussing, or to simply have unity for the sake of unity, but more specifically if it is the correct "Bread of Life" that we would break in unity. Enter John 6:35-40 .

Your assumption that I am clearly wrong, in seeking context to what Scripture provides to us, because of how you interpret this part of Scripture,

I do not need to assume that you shared something wrong because of "personal interpretation"; but because you provided false means of interpreting the passage:

It would be in reality the word kyrios, but in the English language that is not the case, even though the translators used that word to signify that Greek word.

Also...

Do you realize that what Jesus is saying in this verse is that you should not call your earthly "father", "Father"? Meaning, don't make out your earthly father to be your heavenly Father. The world does this readily, in the belief that the earthly father is the one who gives life! We, of course know better. Now, understanding that it had nothing to do with the word itself, but the connotation placed upon the word to signify that which only belongs to our Heavenly Father and not to our earthly father.

Again, that is NOT what was used in Matthew 23:9 and is disingenuous to suggest it ONLY means referring to someone as "giver of life" (though I do agree with you in not viewing our earthly "father" in this manner as well. e.g "giver of life").

It is πατέρα (patera), not κύριος (kyrios) as you have suggested.

So, we can see within the word usage, and specifically its definition, more clearly what Jesus is commanding. Do not call [καλέσητε (kalesēte) Strong's Greek 2564: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name. Akin to the base of keleuo; to 'call'] (or be called) by exalting titles by or to any person (as the correct word and definition explains) because those titles are exclusively for God.

If not by definition, I will try to illustrate this through some instances throughout Jesus' ministry.

Firstly, in Luke 2 is the story of the boy Jesus that was mistakenly left in Jerusalem. More specifically interesting is Luke 2:48-49 . A separation between father (πατήρ/patēr) and Father’s (Πατρός/Patros = the possesive of patera).

Secondly, the wedding at Cana in Galilee in John 2 when Jesus' turned the water into wine? How did Jesus respond to Mary (His mother or métér (μήτηρ) when she pleaded for him to intervene?
" Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?" - John 2:4

Jesus did the same thing in John 19:26. Why did He say these things (or, lack thereof)? Because it went hand in hand with what He taught in Matthew 23:8-10 so that WE, as followers of Jesus, do not become hypocrites like the religious leaders of Jesus' day just as he was explaining in the verse before Matthew 23:1-7. (CONTEXT!)

This hypocrisy is still going on to this day that Jesus warned us about in Luke 12:1-3 and expanded on just how poisonous it is after He commanded His followers to not do the same! Matthew 23:13-39

You can try an experiment to see if what Jesus said is true. Call every person you know or meet by their first name only and see how they react. I guarantee you it will be a shocking and eye opening find.

If the Holy Spirit had not led me to see this, I don't believe any more time delving into Scripture would have helped, in what I now can see clearly. People who live in the country might call it "Not seeing the forest for the trees".

We must be very careful to not shut out God and receive new truth from Him. Jesus addressed this with His run ins with the Pharisees and Scribes in both John 9:39-41 and Matthew 15:13-14.

That being said, you can see that Matthew 23:9 goes hand in hand with Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. I realize that on the face value of what this states, that Jesus was using money coined by the Romans to make His point. However, looking closely at the wording one sees, that He is attempting to show them that there is a difference between what belongs to man, to what belongs to God and that they should not be mixed/confused.

The connection there is between Caesars' and Gods' Kingdom to determine who we give our devotion to. It can be summed up with this question: "What belongs to God?" (Answer: Everything!) "So what is left for Caesar?" (Answer: Nothing). Jesus expanded on this in Matthew 17:24-27 saying, "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own children or from others?”

I also see the connection of Jesus not being a respecter/partial to any person in Luke 20:21. Even the scribes and chief priests recognized this.

If my usage of certain words offend you then I'll not use them brother. However, I am also a Moderator in Talk Jesus and so saying have responsibilities that go beyond what I would have no issue complying with if it were to prevent you from being pained. This is not something I can or will force upon others. Nor, should you expect it of me. All I ask is that you have compassion to others that God has also chosen to be His.

If you choose to keep using titles like sir, mister/misses, doctor, most holy reverend, etc when Jesus said not to you have to ask who it really offends. That is between you and God. Jesus did say what to do when we find something offending us in Mark 9:42-50. Cut it off and stop doing it! If you do decide to do that and teach others to do the same is up to you.



In peace and Love

 

[Bendito]

@Christ4Ever ,

Truly I do appreciate your consciousness of others (your ref. to Romans 14) to ensure that they do not stumble (that is a very good spirit to have!) but it is ultimately my hope to bring to light that it is not merely food for the body in which we are discussing, or to simply have unity for the sake of unity, but more specifically if it is the correct "Bread of Life" that we would break in unity. Enter John 6:35-40 .



I do not need to assume that you shared something wrong because of "personal interpretation"; but because you provided false means of interpreting the passage:



Also...




Again, that is NOT what was used in Matthew 23:9 and is disingenuous to suggest it ONLY means referring to someone as "giver of life" (though I do agree with you in not viewing our earthly "father" in this manner as well. e.g "giver of life").

It is πατέρα (patera), not κύριος (kyrios) as you have suggested.

So, we can see within the word usage, and specifically its definition, more clearly what Jesus is commanding. Do not call [καλέσητε (kalesēte) Strong's Greek 2564: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name. Akin to the base of keleuo; to 'call'] (or be called) by exalting titles by or to any person (as the correct word and definition explains) because those titles are exclusively for God.

If not by definition, I will try to illustrate this through some instances throughout Jesus' ministry.

Firstly, in Luke 2 is the story of the boy Jesus that was mistakenly left in Jerusalem. More specifically interesting is Luke 2:48-49 . A separation between father (πατήρ/patēr) and Father’s (Πατρός/Patros = the possesive of patera).

Secondly, the wedding at Cana in Galilee in John 2 when Jesus' turned the water into wine? How did Jesus respond to Mary (His mother or métér (μήτηρ) when she pleaded for him to intervene?
" Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee?" - John 2:4

Jesus did the same thing in John 19:26. Why did He say these things (or, lack thereof)? Because it went hand in hand with what He taught in Matthew 23:8-10 so that WE, as followers of Jesus, do not become hypocrites like the religious leaders of Jesus' day just as he was explaining in the verse before Matthew 23:1-7. (CONTEXT!)

This hypocrisy is still going on to this day that Jesus warned us about in Luke 12:1-3 and expanded on just how poisonous it is after He commanded His followers to not do the same! Matthew 23:13-39

You can try an experiment to see if what Jesus said is true. Call every person you know or meet by their first name only and see how they react. I guarantee you it will be a shocking and eye opening find.



We must be very careful to not shut out God and receive new truth from Him. Jesus addressed this with His run ins with the Pharisees and Scribes in both John 9:39-41 and Matthew 15:13-14.



The connection there is between Caesars' and Gods' Kingdom to determine who we give our devotion to. It can be summed up with this question: "What belongs to God?" (Answer: Everything!) "So what is left for Caesar?" (Answer: Nothing). Jesus expanded on this in Matthew 17:24-27 saying, "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own children or from others?”

I also see the connection of Jesus not being a respecter/partial to any person in Luke 20:21. Even the scribes and chief priests recognized this.



If you choose to keep using titles like sir, mister/misses, doctor, most holy reverend, etc when Jesus said not to you have to ask who it really offends. That is between you and God. Jesus did say what to do when we find something offending us in Mark 9:42-50. Cut it off and stop doing it! If you do decide to do that and teach others to do the same is up to you.



In peace and Love

Oh boy....

 

[The Unprofitable Servant]

The verse you posted, "Matthew 5:48," do you believe it's possible for a believer to attain to this perfection?

I believe Paul answered this question in 1 Peter 1:13-25.

Specifically 1 Peter 1:22


In peace and Love

 

[regibassman57]

@Unprofitable Servant,

I believe Paul answered this question in 1 Peter 1:13-25.
Specifically 1 Peter 1:22
In peace and Love

Though you didn't come right out and say believers can be perfect, you did give me the scriptures that confirms your belief. I guess a person has to choose their battles on this forum.

I am in total agreement we can be "perfect" "in character" as Jesus is perfect (Mat. 5:48; Luk. 6:40). Being perfect in character doesn't mean we stop growing in knowledge - but it means we no longer conduct ourselves emotionally after the character of Satan. I think it's important to say what most people will not say. And because people will not speak on certain subjects, for fear of being persecuted, it hinders God's truth in the body of Christ for others to be made free. God's word teaches, "my people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge" (Hosea 4:6). Without correct knowledge people do not grow, but the scripture also says, because they reject knowledge.

 

[The Unprofitable Servant]

@regibassman57

I really enjoyed and am super thankful that you brought the connection between Matthew 5:48 and Luke 6:40 to light for me. As we strive to become perfect like the "perfect one", we do not surpass the Master, by no means, but will be like him in every way. In action and Word. That also includes the difficult things that our teacher Jesus taught that were and are still hated. It is one of the reasons I ask people to name me 10-20 things Jesus taught. I try to usher in the easy things with people like love (though, at times it can be the hardest) but then segue into the more difficult teachings that seemingly almost no one is doing. We can find a very big portion of what Jesus told his disciples to do in the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mountain. Although, people do like to pick and choose what Jesus said and only apply it (or seemingly apply it) when it is convenient.

I read through Hosea 4 because of your quote from it and it is very spot on of how the Creator of the Universe is viewing His creation both then and now. "Being destroyed by lack and rejection of knowledge"

It reminds me of Matthew 12:42, "The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here." Even as Paul wrote in his first letter to the Corinthians ( 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ) and very specifically verse 24, "but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 1:24


In peace and Love

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever ,

Truly I do appreciate your consciousness of others (your ref. to Romans 14) to ensure that they do not stumble (that is a very good spirit to have!) but it is ultimately my hope to bring to light that it is not merely food for the body in which we are discussing, or to simply have unity for the sake of unity, but more specifically if it is the correct "Bread of Life" that we would break in unity. Enter John 6:35-40 .

Agreed brother. However, to what you wrote that followed the above is based off a false assumption on your part and has nothing to do with what I was responding to. If you take a look at the "Sir" in scripture, which is separate from father/Father, you will find that I was correct in identifying it as Kyrios. Which was the issue in the first place was it not? (Brother Bendito saying "Sir" to you in his post.)

So, to comment on what you wrote in this post on how I was wrong in my understanding, would be like a dog chasing its own tail. Only getting us both a bit dizzy and puzzled on why we are unable to get a good grip on what the other is trying to say. I added to this miscommunication by not addressing it the first time you brought it up. This is what I get for not listening to the Holy Spirit who was trying to guide me to explain to you after your initial mentioning of me getting Matthew 23:9 incorrect in translating "father". Thick headed me just kept on typing…….

Better to backtrack in our communication. So, if you'd like to try this again from the point of the word "Sir" and not yet to the use of "father/Father", in order to cut down on any confusion it would be appreciated. Oh, and I take no insult for what you wrote concerning my ability to interpret etc. My fault for allowing it to go on, and so, my apology to you brother

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[The Unprofitable Servant]

So, if you'd like to try this again from the point of the word "Sir" and not yet to the use of "father/Father", in order to cut down on any confusion it would be appreciated.

I can and do appreciate that. To reintroduce my point again, in regard to using titles like "sir" and its connection to Matthew 23:9, we can start at point of the term "sir" itself. Firstly, we will start with the definition of "sir".
Which is as follows:

sir /sər/
noun
noun: sir; plural noun: sirs; noun: Sir; plural noun: Sirs

1. used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   "excuse me, sir"
   • used to address a man at the beginning of a formal or business letter.
     "Dear Sir"
   • (in Britain) used as a title before the given name of a knight or baronet.
   • another expression for siree.

Origin:
Middle English: reduced form of sire.

"Sir" is a reduced form of "sire" which is defined as follows:

sire /ˈsī(ə)r/
noun
noun: sire; plural noun: sires

1. 1. the male parent of an animal, especially a stallion or bull kept for breeding.
2. 
   
3. 2. a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king.
   • -a father or other male forebear.
   • 
     
   • So far, we have found that the term "sir" is used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   • Also, we see that the term "sir" is reduced form of "sire" which is a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king or a father or other male forebear (i.e. ancestor)
   • 
     
   • So we have definitive means of the term "sir" and its origin "sire". How does this relate to what Jesus is saying in Matthew 23:9 and the surrounding verses? Let us check the definitions of the Words that Jesus was using.
4. 
   
5. Firstly, the verse is, "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Lets start with the term, "call no man" which is in Greek καλέσητε (kalesēte) which is defined as follows:
6. 
   
7. "do not call anyone"
   καλέσητε (kalesēte)
   Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 2nd Person Plural
   Strong's Greek 2564: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name. Akin to the base of keleuo; to 'call'.
8. (Note: The Strong's Greek 2564 word καλέω (kaleó) is an interesting insight to gain a clearer perspective of what Jesus is commanding)
9. 
   
10. And secondly, the word "father" in Matthew 23:9 which is in Greek πατέρα (patera) is defined as follows:
11. 
    
12. father,
    πατέρα (patera)
    Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
    Strong's Greek 3962: Father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. Apparently a primary word; a 'father'.
13. • i. generator or male ancestor
      1. -either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
      2. -a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
         1. -fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
      3. -one advanced in years, a senior
    • ii. metaph.
      1. -the originator and transmitter of anything
         1. -the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
         2. -one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
      2. -one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
      3. iii. a title of honour
14. 
    Do you see the connection?
    
    
    
15. In peace and Love

 

[Bendito]

I can and do appreciate that. To reintroduce my point again, in regard to using titles like "sir" and its connection to Matthew 23:9, we can start at point of the term "sir" itself. Firstly, we will start with the definition of "sir".
Which is as follows:

sir /sər/
noun
noun: sir; plural noun: sirs; noun: Sir; plural noun: Sirs

1. used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   "excuse me, sir"
   • used to address a man at the beginning of a formal or business letter.
     "Dear Sir"
   • (in Britain) used as a title before the given name of a knight or baronet.
   • another expression for siree.

Origin:
Middle English: reduced form of sire.

"Sir" is a reduced form of "sire" which is defined as follows:

sire /ˈsī(ə)r/
noun
noun: sire; plural noun: sires

1. 1. the male parent of an animal, especially a stallion or bull kept for breeding.
2. 
   
3. 2. a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king.
   • -a father or other male forebear.
   • 
     
   • So far, we have found that the term "sir" is used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   • Also, we see that the term "sir" is reduced form of "sire" which is a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king or a father or other male forebear (i.e. ancestor)
   • 
     
   • So we have definitive means of the term "sir" and its origin "sire". How does this relate to what Jesus is saying in Matthew 23:9 and the surrounding verses? Let us check the definitions of the Words that Jesus was using.
4. 
   
5. Firstly, the verse is, "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Lets start with the term, "call no man" which is in Greek καλέσητε (kalesēte) which is defined as follows:
6. 
   
7. "do not call anyone"
   καλέσητε (kalesēte)
   Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 2nd Person Plural
   Strong's Greek 2564: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name. Akin to the base of keleuo; to 'call'.
8. (Note: The Strong's Greek 2564 word καλέω (kaleó) is an interesting insight to gain a clearer perspective of what Jesus is commanding)
9. 
   
10. And secondly, the word "father" in Matthew 23:9 which is in Greek πατέρα (patera) is defined as follows:
11. 
    
12. father,
    πατέρα (patera)
    Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
    Strong's Greek 3962: Father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. Apparently a primary word; a 'father'.
13. • i. generator or male ancestor
      1. -either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
      2. -a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
         1. -fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
      3. -one advanced in years, a senior
    • ii. metaph.
      1. -the originator and transmitter of anything
         1. -the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
         2. -one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
      2. -one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
      3. iii. a title of honour
14. 
    Do you see the connection?
    
    
    
15. In peace and Love

The Unprofitable Servant, what do you call your parents...Do you disrespect them and call them by name? Or do you honor them with their title? Mom and Dad?

 

[Lily Miller]

The Unprofitable Servant, what do you call your parents...Do you disrespect them and call them by name? Or do you honor them with their title? Mom and Dad?

Can you share with me how it is disrespectful to call my mom "Shelly" when all of her friends and everyone who knows her calls her "Shelly" and everyone knows she is my mom, and yet she is okay with me calling her "Shelly" because it allows me to OBEY a command of Jesus, and getting me closer to my Heavenly Father? What is disrespectful about using her name, her name is not "mom" it is "Shelly".

What did Jesus call his Mother?

 

[Bendito]

Can you share with me how it is disrespectful to call my mom "Shelly" when all of her friends and everyone who knows her calls her "Shelly" and everyone knows she is my mom, and yet she is okay with me calling her "Shelly" because it allows me to OBEY a command of Jesus, and getting me closer to my Heavenly Father? What is disrespectful about using her name, her name is not "mom" it is "Shelly".

What did Jesus call his Mother?

We respect our parents by not setting ourselves at the same level as them. Our parents give us life, support, teaching, encouragement, teaching, and on and on and on. They dedicate themselves to your good...That puts them in a position above you...Respect that. Respect what they have done for you and what they do for you now and in the future. Respect the fact that they give their lives to your good. Taking the same position as them when interacting with them literally negates them and what all they do FOR YOU.

 

[The Unprofitable Servant]

The Unprofitable Servant, what do you call your parents...

I call them by their first names, because Jesus said not to, and they HATE it because they feel they are entitled to those titles which is EXACTLY what Jesus was addressing in Matthew 23:5-7.

Our parents give us life,

This is the point @Christ4Ever was making that I totally agreed with; but you seem to have missed it, my friend:

The world does this readily, in the belief that the earthly father is the one who gives life! We, of course know better.

Do you see how Jesus is right and not the world?

Our parents give us life, support, teaching, encouragement, teaching, and on and on and on.

There is a certain time in our life in which these responsibilities shift and are now Gods'. That time is when we are born again and what was once our earthly parents responsibility is now for our spiritual Father. He gives life (eternal), support, teaching, encouragement, etc. Rely on Him!

Taking the same position as them when interacting with them literally negates them and what all they do FOR YOU.

If I would do as you are suggesting it would negate Jesus and all he did FOR US.


In peace and Love

 

[Lily Miller]

We respect our parents by not setting ourselves at the same level as them. Our parents give us life, support, teaching, encouragement, teaching, and on and on and on. They dedicate themselves to your good...That puts them in a position above you...Respect that. Respect what they have done for you and what they do for you now and in the future. Respect the fact that they give their lives to your good. Taking the same position as them when interacting with them literally negates them and what all they do FOR YOU.

So let me get this straight.

You're telling me that because I don't refer to my mom as "mom" I'm disrespecting her, even when I told her "I'm not doing this to disrespect you, I am doing this because I am trying to respect my kings commands. You are still my mom and I understand you have done a lot for me, I thank you for that." Jesus gave me clear instructions to not lift someone above myself, because we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. These titles of "respect" only exist because of the need to "put them in a position above you" you're telling me to go against God, and Jesus. I respect what my mom and my dad have done for me, and if they can't respect my decision to LISTEN to Jesus and DO what he said, then that shall be between them and God. Do please listen to Jesus, let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Calling them by their name does not negate their position in my life, or the things that they do for me. I do not refer to my husband as "Husband" that does not negate his position as such, I refer to him as his name. Which still makes him my husband. Just because we use their name does not make their position non-existent. So I strongly disagree with you when you say that.

This whole "respect" thing, is really just belittlement, I am supposed to make myself small to someone who won't even judge me on the last day? No way dude.. The only person I am making myself small to is God.

 

[Bendito]

So let me get this straight.

You're telling me that because I don't refer to my mom as "mom" I'm disrespecting her, even when I told her "I'm not doing this to disrespect you, I am doing this because I am trying to respect my kings commands. You are still my mom and I understand you have done a lot for me, I thank you for that." Jesus gave me clear instructions to not lift someone above myself, because we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. These titles of "respect" only exist because of the need to "put them in a position above you" you're telling me to go against God, and Jesus. I respect what my mom and my dad have done for me, and if they can't respect my decision to LISTEN to Jesus and DO what he said, then that shall be between them and God. Do please listen to Jesus, let the Holy Spirit guide you.

Calling them by their name does not negate their position in my life, or the things that they do for me. I do not refer to my husband as "Husband" that does not negate his position as such, I refer to him as his name. Which still makes him my husband. Just because we use their name does not make their position non-existent. So I strongly disagree with you when you say that.

This whole "respect" thing, is really just belittlement, I am supposed to make myself small to someone who won't even judge me on the last day? No way dude.. The only person I am making myself small to is God.

You do not call a man father (who guides you spiritually) but God who is your spiritual guide....We call the man who sired us father because of the life he gives us. These are two different things....Do not dishonor your Earthly father, but do not call him your spiritual guide either

You can have all the opinions you like concerning the Word....But what does the Word say?! Don't tell God what He means when He says something. Simply follow what He says. Telling God what He means when He says something is where apostasy comes in, begins.

 

[Lily Miller]

You do not call a man father (who guides you spiritually) but God who is your spiritual guide....We call the man who sired us father because of the life he gives us. These are two different things....Do not dishonor your Earthly father, but do not call him your spiritual guide either

You can have all the opinions you like concerning the Word....But what does the Word say?! Don't tell God what He means when He says something. Simply follow what He says.

Have blessed day brother!

 

[Bendito]

Have blessed day brother!

Why did I know that you would reject this?

 

[Bendito]

When they saw the star, they were filled with joy! They entered the house and saw the child with his mother, Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasure chests and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Matthew 2:10-11

The wise men trusted the sign of the star in the heavens and traveled many miles with their valuable gifts to honor a newborn king. They endured great hardship and discomfort during their travels. They risked robbery and illness while traveling many miles through the deserts. When they arrived in the land of Israel, they were greeted by a violent, scheming king who intended to trick them into helping him commit murder. The risks and inconveniences they faced daily made for a treacherous, uncertain journey.

Finally, when they saw the star confirming that their journey had been successful, they offered their gifts to the newborn king. What did they think of the humble little town of Bethlehem at that time? Mary and Joseph weren't wealthy and hardly had the appearance of royalty.

Nevertheless, the wise men acted in faith, leaving their gifts with the family, rejoicing that they could celebrate the newborn king, and trusting that there was so much more to this king than their eyes could see.

Living by Faith Isn't a Sure Bet?
Acts 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
2 Corinthians 1:24
Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
2 Corinthians 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight
Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Hebrews 11:9
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Hebrews 11:20
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Hebrews 11:21
By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Hebrews 11:22
By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Hebrews 11:23
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Hebrews 11:24
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Hebrews 11:29
By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Hebrews 11:30
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Hebrews 11:31
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
I think you'll have to explain it to me. I fail to see where the gamble comes in.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I can and do appreciate that. To reintroduce my point again, in regard to using titles like "sir" and its connection to Matthew 23:9, we can start at point of the term "sir" itself. Firstly, we will start with the definition of "sir".
Which is as follows:

sir /sər/
noun
noun: sir; plural noun: sirs; noun: Sir; plural noun: Sirs

1. used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   "excuse me, sir"
   • used to address a man at the beginning of a formal or business letter.
     "Dear Sir"
   • (in Britain) used as a title before the given name of a knight or baronet.
   • another expression for siree.

Origin:
Middle English: reduced form of sire.

"Sir" is a reduced form of "sire" which is defined as follows:

sire /ˈsī(ə)r/
noun
noun: sire; plural noun: sires

1. 1. the male parent of an animal, especially a stallion or bull kept for breeding.
2. 
   
3. 2. a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king.
   • -a father or other male forebear.
   • 
     
   • So far, we have found that the term "sir" is used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority.
   • Also, we see that the term "sir" is reduced form of "sire" which is a respectful form of address for someone of high social status, especially a king or a father or other male forebear (i.e. ancestor)
   • 
     
   • So we have definitive means of the term "sir" and its origin "sire". How does this relate to what Jesus is saying in Matthew 23:9 and the surrounding verses? Let us check the definitions of the Words that Jesus was using.
4. 
   
5. Firstly, the verse is, "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." Lets start with the term, "call no man" which is in Greek καλέσητε (kalesēte) which is defined as follows:
6. 
   
7. "do not call anyone"
   καλέσητε (kalesēte)
   Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 2nd Person Plural
   Strong's Greek 2564: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name. Akin to the base of keleuo; to 'call'.
8. (Note: The Strong's Greek 2564 word καλέω (kaleó) is an interesting insight to gain a clearer perspective of what Jesus is commanding)
9. 
   
10. And secondly, the word "father" in Matthew 23:9 which is in Greek πατέρα (patera) is defined as follows:
11. 
    
12. father,
    πατέρα (patera)
    Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
    Strong's Greek 3962: Father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. Apparently a primary word; a 'father'.
13. • i. generator or male ancestor
      1. -either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
      2. -a more remote ancestor, the founder of a family or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
         1. -fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a nation
      3. -one advanced in years, a senior
    • ii. metaph.
      1. -the originator and transmitter of anything
         1. -the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
         2. -one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
      2. -one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
      3. iii. a title of honour
14. 
    Do you see the connection?
    
    
    
15. In peace and Love

I understand the literal translation that you have brought forth from Strong's, but I hope you also understand that what it shows you is that the meaning of its use is found in the context of the writing. Which is the case with any word. Correct? This is the very reason why I believe the translators of Scripture responsible for putting the Word of God into the English and I'm sure other languages as well, used capitalization to show the different use/meaning of each instance in this case of the word "father/Father".

However, if this is incorrect and the small "father" should never have been accorded to anyone but God, because it has the same implication given to "Father" which I believe is what you are saying. This then makes not only the KJV, but every other translation doubtful in accuracy at best because of their use of "father" to anyone but God. So, you must believe that Scripture is not inerrant?

Checking the breath of your belief here and because of this belief, a desire to show you how other items are affected because of it, and how they must also be considered when trying to apply a literal interpretation outside of context.

As a side note. You realize that the father used in the OT, is never in regards to God, yet in the Hebrew is defined basically the same as the Greek? Interesting.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Living by Faith Isn't a Sure Bet?
Acts 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Romans 11:20
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
2 Corinthians 1:24
Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
2 Corinthians 5:7
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:smile:
Galatians 3:11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Galatians 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Hebrews 11:9
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Hebrews 11:20
By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Hebrews 11:21
By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Hebrews 11:22
By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Hebrews 11:23
By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Hebrews 11:24
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Hebrews 11:29
By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Hebrews 11:30
By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Hebrews 11:31
By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
I think you'll have to explain it to me. I fail to see where the gamble comes in.

Reread my Post #5 on this thread brother. In particular the first sentence.

Thank-you for sharing those verses brother! Outstanding if I do say so myself!
Bless you.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Hiswillbedone]

When they saw the star, they were filled with joy! They entered the house and saw the child with his mother, Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasure chests and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Matthew 2:10-11

The wise men trusted the sign of the star in the heavens and traveled many miles with their valuable gifts to honor a newborn king. They endured great hardship and discomfort during their travels. They risked robbery and illness while traveling many miles through the deserts. When they arrived in the land of Israel, they were greeted by a violent, scheming king who intended to trick them into helping him commit murder. The risks and inconveniences they faced daily made for a treacherous, uncertain journey.

Finally, when they saw the star confirming that their journey had been successful, they offered their gifts to the newborn king. What did they think of the humble little town of Bethlehem at that time? Mary and Joseph weren't wealthy and hardly had the appearance of royalty.

Nevertheless, the wise men acted in faith, leaving their gifts with the family, rejoicing that they could celebrate the newborn king, and trusting that there was so much more to this king than their eyes could see.

,
Really Great Post! I never really thought about it in the way you presented it (i.e. these three wise men went out in faith and believed that Jesus was the promised messiah even though Jesus wouldn't have looked special at that time). It shows that the outside appearances isn't what we should be focusing on. It is sad that it is so prevalent in today's world.

God looks at the heart of the individual; at what can't be perceived by men, only by God.

In peace

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Hiswillbedone
Glad you liked it brother. Can't take credit for the devotional, only for passing it on. One then gives all the Glory to God!!