please clarify what you're actually accusing me of?Nope just that we can see ya fruits n they are not of the Spirit of the Lord thats fo sure ¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
Man Was Created To Be GOD
- Thread starter JunoTheServant
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Twistie
Loyal
Go reread your words..im not accusing you of nothing..your words will do that on their own...
¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
you have shown substantial ability to miss represent and understand all of them.
otherwise you've have a plain english reply.
enough of the emojies. i don't speak ebonics, or any other language.
Twistie
Loyal
Ok if ya say so..¯\_༼ •́ ͜ʖ •̀ ༽_/¯
Glad i aint got that monkey you got on my back..frfr .
Hope ya grow closer to the Lord..
(=^･ｪ･^=)
Gothedral
Active
@joestue , @KingJ in spite of the Serpent's twist, I copy-pasted this from Google A.i. on the subject matter / big Christian question: (TL;DR? "No." Skip to the end.)
"In Christian lore, the concept of humanity being transformed into the likeness of God is known as theosis or divinization (often summarized by the early Church Fathers as "God became man so that man might become god").
While Jesus implies this destiny in his teachings, the most explicit formulations of this doctrine appear in His High Priestly Prayer in the Gospel of John, alongside supporting New Testament epistles that expand on His promises. Quoting from the NABRE Catholic Bible, the core scriptures include:
There's answer 1. By the way, I used to be in a cult that insisted on the notion that living forever meant eventually doing what God does, of all things; which probably appeals to the dopamine hits of pop-culture power-trips. That's my take on it. But, since I am currently learning Roman Catholic Christianity (or as I say with a wink, Red Team) I prompted Google A.i. to display Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Athanasius' final verdict on @joestue 's question. And I display it here both for the curiosity of augmented internet data search results for Christian theologians, and of course for personal posterity. In green color, because The Matrix sci-fi is lol:
"Both St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas arrived at the exact same final verdict: Humanity is truly called to become "gods," but strictly by grace and participation, never by nature.
They harmonized the shocking biblical claims of theosis (human divinization) with strict monotheism. Their unified teaching is so central to Catholic lore that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 460) directly pairs their verdicts together. [1, 2]
1. St. Athanasius' Verdict: "Deified, Not Equal"
In his 4th-century masterpiece On the Incarnation, Athanasius delivered his most famous axiom: [1]
Writing in the 13th century, Aquinas agreed completely with Athanasius but applied rigorous scholastic logic to explain exactly how it works. He wrote: [1, 7]
Would you like GG to explore the sacramental side of this verdict—specifically how Aquinas believed Catholic sacraments (like the Eucharist) physically begin this transformation process in a person?"
So, there's the data with sauce and receipts. My testimony is that of Jesus Christ the True and Living God, The Word, The Holy and Only Begotten Son of the Most High God, our Glorious Redeemer Who Is Mighty to Save, and in Him I trust. Everyone else is a silly sinner as good as I am. And we should all live penitent lives in faithful obedience to The LORD of lords, King of kings, GOD above all.
Yeah. So. After we've memorized each other's entire Earthly works, and met Jesus' celestial horse, then what do we do in Heaven for ever?
(And no, I am not trusting the computer for Scripture verses on the nature of Paradise.)
"In Christian lore, the concept of humanity being transformed into the likeness of God is known as theosis or divinization (often summarized by the early Church Fathers as "God became man so that man might become god").
While Jesus implies this destiny in his teachings, the most explicit formulations of this doctrine appear in His High Priestly Prayer in the Gospel of John, alongside supporting New Testament epistles that expand on His promises. Quoting from the NABRE Catholic Bible, the core scriptures include:
1. The High Priestly Prayer (John 17:21-22)
During the Last Supper, Jesus prays directly for His followers, implying they will be brought into the same divine unity and glory that He shares with the Father:2. The Appeal to The Psalms (John 10:34)
When accused of blasphemy for making Himself equal to God, Jesus defends Himself by reminding His critics of humanity's innate, divinely appointed potential, quoting Psalm 82:6:3. Sharing in The Divine Nature (2 Peter 1:4)
While not a direct quote spoken by Jesus during His earthly ministry, this text is the theological bedrock of theosis in Catholic lore, showing how Christ’s promises elevate humanity:4. Ultimate Eschatological Transformation (1 John 3:2)
The Apostle John summarizes the ultimate destiny promised by Christ, stating that the endpoint of the Christian life is an exact reflection of Jesus:Would you like GG to look into how Catholic theologians (like St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Athanasius) interpreted these specific verses regarding theosis?"
There's answer 1. By the way, I used to be in a cult that insisted on the notion that living forever meant eventually doing what God does, of all things; which probably appeals to the dopamine hits of pop-culture power-trips. That's my take on it. But, since I am currently learning Roman Catholic Christianity (or as I say with a wink, Red Team) I prompted Google A.i. to display Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Athanasius' final verdict on @joestue 's question. And I display it here both for the curiosity of augmented internet data search results for Christian theologians, and of course for personal posterity. In green color, because The Matrix sci-fi is lol:
"Both St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas arrived at the exact same final verdict: Humanity is truly called to become "gods," but strictly by grace and participation, never by nature.
They harmonized the shocking biblical claims of theosis (human divinization) with strict monotheism. Their unified teaching is so central to Catholic lore that the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 460) directly pairs their verdicts together. [1, 2]
1. St. Athanasius' Verdict: "Deified, Not Equal"
In his 4th-century masterpiece On the Incarnation, Athanasius delivered his most famous axiom: [1]
- The Meaning: Athanasius was fighting the Arian heresy (which claimed Jesus was just a highly elevated man). He argued that only a truly divine Savior could bridge the gap to save humanity. [3]
- The Distinction: In the original Greek text, Athanasius uses the word theopoiethomen ("deified" or "made divine"). His verdict is that we do not change into the uncreated Creator or become independent deities. Instead, by Christ plugging human nature into the divine life, humanity is flooded with God's glory, overcoming mortality and sin. [4, 5, 6]
Writing in the 13th century, Aquinas agreed completely with Athanasius but applied rigorous scholastic logic to explain exactly how it works. He wrote: [1, 7]
- The Essence vs. Grace Distinction: Aquinas ruled that God is God by essence (His very nature is existence itself). Humans can only become "gods" by participation—meaning we are like an iron bar placed into a fire. The iron doesn't stop being iron, but it takes on all the properties of the fire (heat, light, glow). [4, 8]
- The Beatific Vision: Aquinas's final verdict ties this to eternity. In heaven, God infuses the human mind with a supernatural "light of glory" (lumen gloriae). This elevates human intellect so we can see the divine essence face-to-face, uniting us to God as deeply as possible without destroying our human identity. [9]
| Attribute | Jesus Christ | Divinized Humanity |
|---|---|---|
| Status | God by Nature | "gods" by Grace |
| Source | Uncreated Essence | Infinite Participation |
| Analogy | The Source of the Fire | The Iron Glowing in the Fire |
So, there's the data with sauce and receipts. My testimony is that of Jesus Christ the True and Living God, The Word, The Holy and Only Begotten Son of the Most High God, our Glorious Redeemer Who Is Mighty to Save, and in Him I trust. Everyone else is a silly sinner as good as I am. And we should all live penitent lives in faithful obedience to The LORD of lords, King of kings, GOD above all.
Yeah. So. After we've memorized each other's entire Earthly works, and met Jesus' celestial horse, then what do we do in Heaven for ever?
(And no, I am not trusting the computer for Scripture verses on the nature of Paradise.)
Gothedral
Active
The part where Jesus resurrects and people want hugs and a beach side fish fry?
The verses you are looking for come from the Gospel of John and the Gospel of Luke.
(I'm using the latest NABRE Bible)
Saint John 20:17
Right after Mary recognizes the resurrected Jesus outside the tomb, He gives her a famous, mysterious instruction:
Saint John 20:27
One week later, Jesus appears to the disciples specifically to address the doubts of Thomas, who refused to believe without physical proof:
Saint Luke 24:38-43
In the Gospel of Luke, Jesus appears to the broader group of disciples who are terrified and think they are seeing a spirit. He explicitly asks them to touch Him and then eats in front of them:
1 Corinthians 15:50–54
Revelation 21:1–6
️
"Immortal" is the word you are looking for. Enjoy the perfect fish sandwich.
KingJ
Loyal
You need to be careful Juno, that is all I am saying.
Thinking of ourselves as gods leads to vanity and pride.
Some points to consider in addition to all the scriptures you have been given.
Being gifted immortality makes us a blessed creation. Only God can give such a gift. And make no mistake, all who have this are living everyday by His grace.
I mean for arguments sake, just consider the ''immortal fallen angels'' living everyday....in eternal punishment. Not really 'godlike status' wouldn't you say?
bdavidc
Active
I understand the distinction you're making, and I agree that Genesis 3:5 does not say Adam and Eve would literally become God. But that was exactly my point.
Look at what the verse actually says: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:5).
Now look at what God Himself says in Genesis 3:22: "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil."
Both verses tell us exactly what the comparison means. It concerns knowing good and evil. Neither verse says Adam and Eve became divine beings, acquired God's nature, or became lesser gods.
And that's important because the original claim in this thread was that mankind was created to become God or gods. Where does Scripture actually teach that? It certainly isn't taught in Genesis 3.
God says in Isaiah 43:10, "Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." And Isaiah 44:8 asks, "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
So yes, there is a difference between saying someone becomes God and saying someone becomes "as gods." But neither statement proves that mankind was created to become divine beings.
My point is simple. We need to let Scripture explain what Scripture means instead of reading something into the text that God never said.
bdavidc
Active
You're making a distinction that Scripture doesn't make. You say Adam and Eve gained "intrinsic knowledge" of good and evil without experience, but where does Genesis 3 actually say that? And where does Scripture say this is why it is so easy for us to sin today?
I agree that eating from the tree brought the knowledge of good and evil, because that is exactly what Genesis 3:7 and 3:22 tell us. But how did they come to eat from that tree in the first place? By disobeying God's direct command. Genesis 2:17 says, "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it."
Paul explains what happened in Romans 5:19: "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." And Romans 5:12 tells us that sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin.
So the Bible doesn't attribute mankind's sinful condition to some special kind of knowledge acquired from the tree. It traces sin's entrance into the world to Adam's disobedience.
I'm not denying that eating from the tree brought knowledge of good and evil. I'm saying we need to be careful not to add explanations that Scripture itself never gives. If you believe the Bible teaches that this was "intrinsic knowledge" received without experience, and that this is why we sin so easily today, then show me where Scripture says that.
bdavidc
Active
You're still not showing us where Scripture teaches that mankind was created to become gods. You're taking God's promises of eternal life and glorification and turning them into something He never said.
You say Isaiah 43:10 is about idols. Yes, God is addressing idolatry, but His declaration is clear: "Before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 44:6 also says, "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Those statements don't leave room for mankind becoming gods.
Now look at Genesis 3:5. The serpent said, "Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." God Himself explains the comparison in verse 22: "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." Both verses are talking about knowing good and evil, not becoming divine beings.
You also claim Psalm 82 is describing what happened in Eden. But where does that Psalm mention Adam, Eve, or the tree of knowledge? It doesn't. Psalm 82 is about unjust judgment, and Jesus quotes it in John 10:34 while answering those who accused Him of blasphemy. Neither passage teaches that mankind was created to become gods.
I absolutely believe God's children will receive eternal life and glorified bodies. Philippians 3:21 says Christ will transform our bodies to be like His glorious body. But being made like Christ does not mean becoming God. And where does Scripture promise we'll be able to fly, walk on water, or turn water into wine? Those are your assumptions, not promises God has made.
Juno, nobody is denying the wonderful future God has promised His children. But eternal life doesn't make someone a god. Revelation 22:3 says that even in eternity, God's servants will serve Him.
So I'll ask you again. Where does Scripture actually say mankind was created to become gods? Please show us the passage rather than adding meanings to verses that don't teach it.
Gothedral
Active
I'm just interjecting here with one instance I know that sounds like, "Jesus said we could do the Superhero things".
Saint John, chapter 14 (NABRE):
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.
So there's that situation used in context like when children lift cars off their parents, or falling out of an airplane and landing in a jungle and not dying because it's not their time to die yet, or toppling buildings on a bunch of baddies in a single shove, real life things like that. One of my favorites is the elite commando that, according to (NABRE) 2 Samuel 23:8 records his incredible feat:
Laugh it off at the next action movie because the bad guys nowadays have Directed Energy Weapons, but Christians have whatever God agrees with. ONLY in that sense do I imagine that Jesus implied such in Psalm 82, and Saint John 10(v34). Really, who am I to argue context?